Mr Martin and the Shamrock fiasco

McMurphy

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

You will find a lot of people are in work.

Yeah, FFS Francie didn't you know it's completely and utterly ridiculous to even suggest people can do such a thing as work and have the radio on in the background at the same time.

What planet are you even on Mr Brady.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

Yeah, FFS Francie didn't you know it's completely and utterly ridiculous to even suggest people can do such a thing as work and have the radio on in the background at the same time.

What planet are you even on Mr Brady.

I'd be more concerned about the dictatorial unsaid thing in CF1's post even though I do work for my living, 'the only opinion of value is that of people who work'.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was in the White House of Bill Clinton for one of these shindigs and a shindig it is. The Taoiseach stands there and looks statesman like basically, stuffs his face and fly's home.

That shows how much you know.

I have been on a number of Ministerial trips in a business capacity. They are far from the shindigs you imagine them to be.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

That shows how much you know.

I have been on a number of Ministerial trips in a business capacity. They are far from the shindigs you imagine them to be.

One I was on cetainly was for the Taoiseach.

Jim Gazebo

I don't think Martin should go. For many of the reasons already stated. I would also add that I think politics is ridiculous, a hobby and a game for some people, but unfortunately a game that affects people's livelihoods. Martin should stand with his people and do what is right and what he told us and stay at home. There's no solid reason I've seen so far that he should go.

The likes of Reilly and Chambers with VM news have a lot to answer for here too, thought they were excellent at the start for info. Now I feel like they are afraid of losing their little leaks and info. Today one of them was saying about all the enterprise stuff and the fact it was essentially a summit with the US president for Martin. Wtf is "enterprise stuff"? At least present the info, not just political jargon to make it sound important.

Muahahaha

So Boris is threatening to invoke Article 16 which could precipitate a hard border on this island. Which means it is even more important now than ever that Martin heads to Washington to meet face to face with Biden and the very US State Department officials that we need to turn the screw on the British to make sure that a hard border doesnt happen.

Martin has to go not only to deal with Boris' sabre rattling right now but for what he does into the future too. The Tories have proved themselves to be untrustworthy now, they sign up for deals and then throw their toys out of the pram after the event. We need the US as a strong counterweight to that. Which is why its so important that Martin meets Biden now, right at the start of his Presidency and when Bidens foreign policy is just getting formulated for the next four years. Out of the four meetings Ireland can expect from Washington in the next four years the first one is by far the most valuable.

RunningFlyer

MM was asked directly on Radio 1 this morning would he travel to Washington and get vaccinated if invited by Biden.

He responded “Yes I will” so there you have it..!

RunningFlyer

RunningFlyer wrote: »

MM was asked directly on Radio 1 this morning would he travel to Washington and get vaccinated if invited by Biden.

He responded “Yes I will” so there you have it..!

Not accurate at all.

RunningFlyer

bubblypop wrote: »

Not accurate at all.

Want to back that up? Have a listen yourself... 17:30mins in..

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1359777374867456002?s=20

FrancieBrady

RunningFlyer wrote: »

Want to back that up? Have a listen yourself... 17:30mins in..

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1359777374867456002?s=20

Micheál leaving the face saver in there: 'If invited, I will go, BUT we have to work it out between two administrations'.

If he has to back down, he has his face saver...'it couldn't be worked out'.

quokula

Malcomex wrote: »

I reckon leo wouldn't go

I'm not clear why MM is going , he could have done himself a favour with the electorate by declaring that he wouldn't be going

Looks like he's leaving it too late or is he hedging his bets ?

I think it's clear that he's aware he will take a reputational hit due to the total dumbing down of national discourse in an attempt by populist parties to score cheap points, but he's decided it's worth that and worth the stress of the trip to attempt to further Ireland's interests.

At a time when the US has a new President who is just setting out his agenda, who is keen to play up his Irish roots and who has values that align much more closely with ours, while our closest neighbour in the UK has become increasingly antagonistic, and the whole world is looking at tough times ahead as the recovery from the pandemic begins, it would be crazy to do anything that hurts our relationship and influence with the US.

And it isn't confirmed one way or another because it is in the hands of the US administration, who are managing optics around the pandemic with their own domestic population, and who have far less to gain from the meeting going ahead.

FrancieBrady

quokula wrote: »

I think it's clear that he's aware he will take a reputational hit due to the total dumbing down of national discourse in an attempt by populist parties to score cheap points, but he's decided it's worth that and worth the stress of the trip to attempt to further Ireland's interests.

At a time when the US has a new President who is just setting out his agenda, who is keen to play up his Irish roots and who has values that align much more closely with ours, while our closest neighbour in the UK has become increasingly antagonistic, and the whole world is looking at tough times ahead as the recovery from the pandemic begins, it would be crazy to do anything that hurts our relationship and influence with the US.

And it isn't confirmed one way or another because it is in the hands of the US administration, who are managing optics around the pandemic with their own domestic population, and who have far less to gain from the meeting going ahead.

So his not going has been elevated to 'hurting our relationship'??

What kind of relationship was it, if a decision not to travel in a pandemic is going to threaten it?
What kind of depth are the new US presidents Irish roots if he turns his back on them because a Taoiseach has to make a decision in his country's interests?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So his not going has been elevated to 'hurting our relationship'??

What kind of relationship was it, if a decision not to travel in a pandemic is going to threaten it?
What kind of depth are the new US presidents Irish roots if he turns his back on them because a Taoiseach has to make a decision in his country's interests?

Simply put, he’s damned if he goes and damned if he doesn’t. If you knew anything about trade, you’d know the value of this annual trip.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Simply put, he’s damned if he goes and damned if he doesn’t. If you knew anything about trade, you’d know the value of this annual trip.

So year on year, what has this trip been worth, if it is that 'simple' you will be able to simply value it and back it up? Or do you just feel that it is?

And when every single 'trade' in the world has had to recognise that we are in a pandemic that is mutating into more virulent varieties why would it be wrong that a Taoiseach put his OWN country first?

nigeldaniel

I fully support our Taoiseach and hope he does go. The fact remains our economy needs all the help it can get as the next few years will see the country's finances looking grim.

FrancieBrady

We are being played here. The Taoiseach says he will go 'if he is invited'.

Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill have formally responded to say they aren't going.
Are we seriously to believe that the Taoiseach is the last of those 3 to be 'invited'?

Typical FF and FG game playing going on...push the idea out there, judge the mood, then decide.
Have to hand it to Micheál for cute hoorness...he isn't gonna do a Black and Tans on it.

Mad_maxx

nigeldaniel wrote: »

I fully support our Taoiseach and hope he does go. The fact remains our economy needs all the help it can get as the next few years will see the country's finances looking grim.

the idea of him not going is hysterical in its bone headedness

of course he should not spurn the opportunity which most small nations must envy beyond belief

as if him attending will make the slightest bit of difference to the covid situation

knowing MM however and how spineless he is and slavish to media and opinion , he will wuss out and not go

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So year on year, what has this trip been worth, if it is that 'simple' you will be able to simply value it and back it up? Or do you just feel that it is?

And when every single 'trade' in the world has had to recognise that we are in a pandemic that is mutating into more virulent varieties why would it be wrong that a Taoiseach put his OWN country first?

If it was so unimportant over the years, why did Sinn Fein so often make a fuss about being there?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/16/gerry-adams-expresses-anger-after-being-denied-entry-to-white-house

Why was Gerry Adams so angry at being excluded in 2016?

This all sounds like sour grapes from Sinn Fein about not being able to go. They have no problem with Louise O'Reilly breaching distance guidelines for a TV appearance, but the Taoiseach going to Washington for important business for Ireland is a different thing.

The Taoiseach would be putting his own country first by going to Washington.

quokula

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are being played here. The Taoiseach says he will go 'if he is invited'.

Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill have formally responded to say they aren't going.
Are we seriously to believe that the Taoiseach is the last of those 3 to be 'invited'?

Typical FF and FG game playing going on...push the idea out there, judge the mood, then decide.
Have to hand it to Micheál for cute hoorness...he isn't gonna do a Black and Tans on it.

Pretty clear Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill are just playing politics and preempting the fact that they likely won't be invited, and in any case playing political games and taking potshots and looking after themselves is more important to both those parties than anything that might generally be beneficial to the people of Northern Ireland.

It's worth pointing out that a lot of countries have harsher restrictions on travellers coming from the UK, where the virus is utterly rampant and two new strains have emerged, than those coming from Ireland, which may also play into differing decisions by foreign governments to invite leaders from ROI or NI.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

If it was so unimportant over the years, why did Sinn Fein so often make a fuss about being there?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/16/gerry-adams-expresses-anger-after-being-denied-entry-to-white-house

Why was Gerry Adams so angry at being excluded in 2016?

This all sounds like sour grapes from Sinn Fein about not being able to go. They have no problem with Louise O'Reilly breaching distance guidelines for a TV appearance, but the Taoiseach going to Washington for important business for Ireland is a different thing.

The Taoiseach would be putting his own country first by going to Washington.

The 'importance' of everything has changed since the pandemic hit. If you actually read what happened at that 2016 event, Adams actually dismisses the idea that 'the event' was more important than the principle.

No party has an issue since the start of the pandemic sending people to TV studio's.

If they wish to address that issue..then it should apply to all. Until then, cherrypicking one person for criticism is just that...cherrypicking.

alexonhisown

Montage of Feck wrote: »

He's not going over there for a holiday ffs, it's a very important diplomatic courtesy that few nations are accorded. I assume he will be going in the government jet, therefore very low risk.

Yeah and probably bringing the family for a free holiday.

FrancieBrady

quokula wrote: »

Pretty clear Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill are just playing politics and preempting the fact that they likely won't be invited, and in any case playing political games and taking potshots and looking after themselves is more important to both those parties than anything that might generally be beneficial to the people of Northern Ireland.

Sorry to disabuse you of the notion that there was political gameplaying going on. O'Neill and Foster's decision not to travel was issued as a 'joint communique' by the Stormont Executive Office.

thelad95

I believe it's Michael Martin shirking the responsibility to the US administration. If they decide it is not safe for him to visit (and Biden being a million times more level headed than Trump may well decide so) then he can say to the people that see the value in him going that he tried but the US told him no. And for the perpetually outraged amongst us, they'll be satisfied that he doesn't go anyway.

I personally think he should go. Whether you like him or not, he is the democratically elected leader of this country and as has been said a million times over on this thread, it will likely be an exhausting trip, going from one boot licking meeting to another brown nosing one without even a chance to get over any jet lag. I can guarantee the same people who are outraged at the prospect of him going are probably the same ones that think politicians spend most of their time sitting around drinking coffee on the taxpayers expense.

The bowl of shamrock rubbish is just a charade for the media, it's the behind closed doors meetings that we'll never be privy too that are really what's important.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'importance' of everything has changed since the pandemic hit. If you actually read what happened at that 2016 event, Adams actually dismisses the idea that 'the event' was more important than the principle.

No party has an issue since the start of the pandemic sending people to TV studio's.

If they wish to address that issue..then it should apply to all. Until then, cherrypicking one person for criticism is just that...cherrypicking.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So year on year, what has this trip been worth, if it is that 'simple' you will be able to simply value it and back it up? Or do you just feel that it is?

And when every single 'trade' in the world has had to recognise that we are in a pandemic that is mutating into more virulent varieties why would it be wrong that a Taoiseach put his OWN country first?

Francie, you are being completely disingenuous.

(1) You asked "what has this trip been worth?"

(2) It was pointed out that Gerry Adams thought it was extremely important at threw a hissy fit at missing out

(3) You shifted then to "The 'importance' of everything has changed since the pandemic hit"

Get off the stage now before you damage any limited credibility you have left. You know, I know, the country knows, that it is very important that Martin goes to Washington and continues the tradition of the St. Patrick's Day meeting, but you are just trying to score cheap political points and will make up any old nonsense for that.

blanch152

quokula wrote: »

Pretty clear Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill are just playing politics and preempting the fact that they likely won't be invited, and in any case playing political games and taking potshots and looking after themselves is more important to both those parties than anything that might generally be beneficial to the people of Northern Ireland.

It's worth pointing out that a lot of countries have harsher restrictions on travellers coming from the UK, where the virus is utterly rampant and two new strains have emerged, than those coming from Ireland, which may also play into differing decisions by foreign governments to invite leaders from ROI or NI.

That's a good point.

There is a lot of angst in Israel that Biden has yet to ring Netanyahu. He may not be interested in talking to bickering sectarian politicians as a rule.

alexonhisown

Oh won't it be terribly embarrassing if he doesn't get invited. Although he will probably just tell the media he has decided not to go in support of the irish people.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Francie, you are being completely disingenuous.

(1) You asked "what has this trip been worth?"

(2) It was pointed out that Gerry Adams thought it was extremely important at threw a hissy fit at missing out

(3) You shifted then to "The 'importance' of everything has changed since the pandemic hit"

Get off the stage now before you damage any limited credibility you have left. You know, I know, the country knows, that it is very important that Martin goes to Washington and continues the tradition of the St. Patrick's Day meeting, but you are just trying to score cheap political points and will make up any old nonsense for that.

It's very clear if you actually read the article that Adams believed there was something more important than the trip. He actually says it. Read the article again.

It is you guys that are claiming 'importance', but it appears this is of the 'feeling it in your water' variety of claim as nobody can present any data.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

That's a good point.

There is a lot of angst in Israel that Biden has yet to ring Netanyahu. He may not be interested in talking to bickering sectarian politicians as a rule.

The 'waiting to be invited' is a PR wheeze blanch. There has apparently been a 'standing invitation' since 1956.

It was that 'standing invitation that the Stormont Executive office issued the JOINT RSVP to.

Whilst I have no problem with Martin travelling myself, it's the optics of the whole thing and how it will be perceived by the wider public which worries me.

The fallout may prolong the problems we are currently facing and in my opinion it is very short sighted if he feels the need to take this trip and completely misjudgeing the mood of the electorate.

It will not go down well and I would expect his approval rating to take a deep afterwards.

blanch152

Northernlily wrote: »

Whilst I have no problem with Martin travelling myself, it's the optics of the whole thing and how it will be perceived by the wider public whichworries me.

The fallout may prolong the problems we are currently facing and in my opinion it is very short sighted if he feels the need to take this trip and completely misjudgeing the mood of the electorate.

It will not go down well and I would expect his approval rating to take a deep afterwards.

It is the responsibility of the Taoiseach to do what is best for the country, no matter what the mob thinks. The mob are a tiny minority who only represent those who shout and moan.

The right thing for Ireland is that he goes.