Employer forcing staff to test for covid.

listermint

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

So you think testing people every 2 weeks is going to save the world. Cop the fcuk on.

No I think it gives them a good indication as to your current covid situation.


I also think you won't be long in employment or travelling anywhere next year if this is the your solo me feiner attitude. Because to be frank countries will be requiring covid passports. And you my friend will be left wanting.

But sure look. Your personal feelings and all. Woooo waves feelings flag. We'll come back when a family member is on a ventilator and see how bashful you are then.

Bicyclette

You are not in a forced labour camp.

If you don't like the terms and conditions of your work, there is nothing to stop you leaving.

Away With The Fairies

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

"Hi, before anybody starts to ask why I dont want to be tested. That is not the case."

You did read that, as the first line. I am just making sure my rights as an employee and an individual are being followed. I thought the legal discussion area might have some form of information, but as normal with boards full of opinionated assholes

Yes, I read your first line. I also read the rest of your replies including this post. Why do I have to get tested? You sound like a spoilt child with the why me attitude. It sounds like you're not happy and looking for a way out. If that's the case, it's a solicitor you need. Hope they tell you the same here, to grow the fück up.

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Yes they can have no symptoms. That's why we wear masks for 8 hours a day. That's why we social distance and sanitize our hands. Do you get tested in work every 2 weeks and if not then why do I.

I thought the hse said to wear masks and social distance, is that not enough now so we have to get tested. If that's the case then it should apply to everyone working.

Bicyclette

Bicyclette wrote: »

You are not in a forced labour camp.

If you don't like the terms and conditions of your work, there is nothing to stop you leaving.

I doubt very much that mandatory covid19 tests are in anyones terms and conditions. Are they in yours?

Dempo1

is_that_so wrote: »

There are regular test cycles in the meat industry. It's a public health decision because of the close proximity and their living conditions. Your employer may argue the same, especially if there are a lot on shift at the same time and the HSE would most probably agree. It's not fun but should go sometime later this year.

Curious though that the HSE has NO such obligation for its own staff, shocking as it might seem, its true.

I can see a lot of employers requiring Tests
And whilst I've personally no objection, it's a matter that will require urgent legislation.

notsoyoungwan

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Would you say the same thing when they force the vaccine on you?

"It wouldn't cross my mind to refuse or to even enquire if I could refuse"

Nobody will be forcing the vaccine on anyone. But you’ve revealed yourself with this and other comments later in the thread.

FWIW, I’ve had both doses of the vaccine. Nobody had to cajole/gently persuade or otherwise influence me to get it. I jumped at the chance and in fact was disappointed I didn’t get it earlier than I did.

I’ve seen firsthand the damage of covid. I’ve seen too many people die, seriously ill and I’ve seen hospitals overwhelmed.

I’d happily take all 3 vaccines available.

mcgragger

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

"Hi, before anybody starts to ask why I dont want to be tested. That is not the case."

You did read that, as the first line. I am just making sure my rights as an employee and an individual are being followed. I thought the legal discussion area might have some form of information, but as normal with boards full of opinionated assholes

What about the safety of your colleagues?

mcgragger

Quandary wrote: »

Mask is rapidly slipping.


I wish my employment had mandatory testing of all staff, and if we got prioritised for vaccination it would be brilliant.

Poster is clearly a troll or a thick.

I'm out of this thread :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Sleeper12

RCSATELLITES wrote:

I thought the hse said to wear masks and social distance, is that not enough now so we have to get tested. If that's the case then it should apply to everyone working.

Let's be clear here. Doctors & nurses have a hell of a lot more PPE than you do and yet 1000s have tested positive for covid.

Masks provides some protection but they are anything but perfect

brightspark

I work in the food industry, we are routinely tested. Employees have the option of not taking the test...but failure to take the test results in two weeks unpaid leave.

Yes the test is slightly uncomfortable, but I do get the reassurance that I am not infected and unwittingly infecting people at home.

From what I recall, health and safety legislation places an obligation on all employees to comply with reasonable measures to protect their (and their colleagues) safety.

Spook_ie

Well I'm 4 pages in and not a sign of what the actual job is, it might very well impact on the legality or otherwise of a test

Spook_ie

https://www.arthurcox.com/COVID-19/employment/mandatory-covid-19-testing-in-the-workplace/

Mandatory COVID-19 testing in the workplace
Given the sharp post-Christmas increase in reported COVID-19 case numbers and deaths, many employers whose on-site operations are continuing during Level 5 restrictions are considering the introduction of mandatory COVID-19 testing. This would require employees to return a negative COVID-19 test before being allowed on site.

12/01/2021
Click here to view this briefing in PDF format



Introduction
While serial COVID-19 testing programmes of workers in nursing homes and food production facilities were rolled out by the HSE there is no general Government guidance or regulation compelling employees to be tested, or to submit to COVID-19 tests. As such, businesses that are not part of a serial testing programme would have to source, and pay for, COVID-19 tests privately. So, is such an approach legal? Our Employment Group and Technology Group consider the employment law and GDPR issues businesses should take into account.



What if an employee objects to undergoing a COVID-19 test?
This might arise in the case of an employee who is not a close contact of a confirmed COVID-19 case and/or who is not displaying any COVID-19 symptoms and who therefore questions the necessity or legality of being compelled to submit to a test before being allowed on site. An employee cannot be forced by his/her employer to take a test, so the question is really about the implications for an employee who refuses to submit to a test.

There are competing interests at play between the employer’s legitimate interests in protecting its business and the health and safety of its employees, and an employee’s constitutional right to bodily integrity. While most employees are likely to agree to be tested where there is a reasonable and proportionate basis for doing so, where agreement is not forthcoming, it becomes a question of whether a requirement to be tested is a reasonable instruction from management.

Where an employee refuses to submit to testing, an employer may understandably be reluctant to invoke a disciplinary process against the employee. Indeed, disciplinary action would not seem to be an appropriate or proportionate response. However, if the employee’s job cannot be done from home, the employer may decline to allow the employee on site (i.e. not to force the employee to submit to a test, but equally, not to permit him/her to work on site without a negative test result), and – importantly – to decide not to pay the employee for as long as he/she continues to refuse to undergo a COVID-19 testing.

An employee whose pay is withheld may make a complaint to the Workplace Relations Commission under the Payment of Wages Act 1991 that there has been a unilateral deduction from their pay. The employer will have to weigh up the risk of such claims against other factors, such as the number of objections relative to the size of the total workforce, the risk of COVID-19 spreading throughout a site with the consequent threat to employee health, supply chains, shipments and deliveries and the employer being forced to shut down. Furthermore, in a unionised employment the attitude of the relevant trade union(s) to mandatory testing will be an important consideration for the employer.

lucernarian

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Let's be clear here. Doctors & nurses have a hell of a lot more PPE than you do and yet 1000s have tested positive for covid.

Masks provides some protection but they are anything but perfect

And it's one of the reasons why there was mixed messaging on the subject all year. Epidemiology is tricky and the threat of airborne spread was underestimated at the start. I see people working in some fast food places are still surprised I'd wait outside for my order in the dark than wait inside with the rest of them with no windows open and barely wearing any masks.

EndaHonesty

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Hi, before anybody starts to ask why I dont want to be tested. That is not the case.

Is it legal for an employer to make screening / testing for covid-19 of non symptom staff mandatory. We have to get tested every 2 weeks for covid-19 without given consent and without a choice. It's the Manufacturing industry that I work in. It's an invasive test ( swab in nose).

Thanks in advance.

The bottom line is, if it's not in your contract they can't force you.

If you refuse they could dismiss you and your only recourse would be the legal route. After Covid the courts will be full of unprecedented workplace actions so it may well be a long and uncertain process. Is this really worth potentially years of your time and attention?...

1874

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Would you say the same thing when they force the vaccine on you?

"It wouldn't cross my mind to refuse or to even enquire if I could refuse"

EndaHonesty wrote: »

The bottom line is, if it's not in your contract they can't force you.

Unless it becomes law to be tested, especially for places where there is good reason and some specific risk, (no one I saw saying anything about being forced to take the vaccine, except the OP, but that would be a completely different thing).

EndaHonesty

1874 wrote: »

Unless it becomes law to be tested, especially for places where there is good reason and some specific risk, (no one I saw saying anything about being forced to take the vaccine, except the OP, but that would be a completely different thing).

Law can not be applied retrospectively. The contract the OP signed (agreed upon) was based on existing law. Changes have to be agreed upon by both parties.

1874

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Law can not be applied retrospectively. The contract the OP signed (agreed upon) was based on existing law. Changes have to be agreed upon by both parties.

Well, unless they have a time machine, they are not going to go back and test him/her in the past.
Id say many contracts have terms that allow entering new conditions as circumstances change, otherwise employers would find themselves with their hands tied.
Now if the OP stated it was some unreasonable request and an easy one to highlight might be if they were told they had to get the vaccine or they would lose their job, that would be a different story, they would be getting medicated and thats a whole different kettle of fish (Im in two minds if I'll get it myself and Ive never had the flu vaccine),


whereas, the OP is stating it is testing to see if they have Covid, I had one myself, and I do not consider it unreasonable to get tested, it doesnt introduce and chemicals or changes to a persons body, it may be essential to protect someone else. either in their workplace (maybe the employer knows someone is immune-compromised, or maybe they are in healthcare.
Regardless, I think it is being difficult and disruptive to say no to a test.


Now, lets say this virus was much more virulent, and people were dropping like flies from all age and risk groups, I guarantee the OP would be clamoring to get a vaccine, let alone tested.

GT89

There's a barrister who has excellent information and advice on all covid related matters her name is Tracey O'Mahony suggest you look her up and possibly get in contact with her. Seems to really know her stuff.

GT89

Bicyclette wrote: »

You are not in a forced labour camp.

If you don't like the terms and conditions of your work, there is nothing to stop you leaving.

If everyone had that attitude 9 year olds would still be going down coal mines

RCSATELLITES

mcgragger wrote: »

What about the safety of your colleagues?

Do you work with colleagues and also get tested?

RCSATELLITES

Spook_ie wrote: »

Well I'm 4 pages in and not a sign of what the actual job is, it might very well impact on the legality or otherwise of a test

Did you check the starting comment of the thread.
Manufacturing industry.

Plastic manufacturing.

"Hi, before anybody starts to ask why I dont want to be tested. That is not the case.

Is it legal for an employer to make screening / testing for covid-19 of non symptom staff mandatory. We have to get tested every 2 weeks for covid-19 without given consent and without a choice. It's the Manufacturing industry that I work in. It's an invasive test ( swab in nose).

Thanks in advance."

RCSATELLITES

brightspark wrote: »

I work in the food industry, we are routinely tested. Employees have the option of not taking the test...but failure to take the test results in two weeks unpaid leave.

Yes the test is slightly uncomfortable, but I do get the reassurance that I am not infected and unwittingly infecting people at home.

From what I recall, health and safety legislation places an obligation on all employees to comply with reasonable measures to protect their (and their colleagues) safety.

So every company is testing it's staff, if that's the case then.

RCSATELLITES

GT89 wrote: »

There's a barrister who has excellent information and advice on all covid related matters her name is Tracey O'Mahony suggest you look her up and possibly get in contact with her. Seems to really know her stuff.

Thanks for the information, I will have a look.

RCSATELLITES

Bicyclette wrote: »

You are not in a forced labour camp.

If you don't like the terms and conditions of your work, there is nothing to stop you leaving.

It's not in the terms and conditions you muppet. I wouldn't be leaving I would have to made redundant as I am not the one changing the contract.

Are you working and are you getting tested?

RCSATELLITES

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Let's be clear here. Doctors & nurses have a hell of a lot more PPE than you do and yet 1000s have tested positive for covid.

Masks provides some protection but they are anything but perfect

So are you working with others and getting tested/screened for covid 19.

Heart Break Kid

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And you are the first person I have ever heard using the term “invasive” for the Covid test, because you know your argument is wafer thin.

It’s pretty invasive, they stick a wiry swab down both nostrils and then another down your throat. It’s uncomfortable and I wouldn’t be a fan of getting it done every day.

RCSATELLITES

mcgragger wrote: »

What about the safety of your colleagues?

I am getting tested, what about your colleagues. Do you have any and are you getting tested to save them and their families.

There is private testing that you can do.


For all the opinionated people on here.


Everybody is quick to judge but actually I am getting tested while 95% of the people commenting are not.

So what every you say about me (and I am getting tested) you should think about yourself and the so called harm you are doing to your colleagues and families while not being tested.

If you feel that strongly about it, you should quit your job.

dobman88

I work in a busy construction suppliers, supplying essential sites like the mental hospital and children's hospital being built.

We get tested, at the employers expense, at the facility up at the airport. It's a pain in the hole but I just see it as a way to keep working and some semblance of normality.

Asking if your employee or human rights are being infringed by your company requiring a test is bizarre.

It's a fantastic thing that your company is getting you all tested. I know I'm safe in work and around my colleagues. Also, my missus who is wfh since last March, has peace of mind that I'm not bringing the virus home.

Suck it up buttercup.

RCSATELLITES

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you feel that strongly about it, you should quit your job.

Thanks for the brilliant advise, but I like my job.

RCSATELLITES

dobman88 wrote: »

I work in a busy construction suppliers, supplying essential sites like the mental hospital and children's hospital being built.

We get tested, at the employers expense, at the facility up at the airport. It's a pain in the hole but I just see it as a way to keep working and some semblance of normality.

Asking if your employee or human rights are being infringed by your company requiring a test is bizarre.

It's a fantastic thing that your company is getting you all tested. I know I'm safe in work and around my colleagues. Also, my missus who is wfh since last March, has peace of mind that I'm not bringing the virus home.

Suck it up buttercup.

You are aware that when you get tested on what ever day, your colleagues go home. Those people go to the shop and are at home with kids and partners that have been out and around other people. Those people were not tested. So the next day they could bring covid to the work place.

Testing only really works if you are tested every single day or you live in work and nobody leaves or sees anybody that was not tested. Otherwise it's not effective. That's my opinion, I am sure the so called experts here will have something different to say. Unfortunately they will be wrong.

dobman88

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

You are aware that when you get tested on what ever day, your colleagues go home. Those people go to the shop and are at home with kids and partners that have been out and around other people. Those people were not tested. So the next day they could bring covid to the work place.

Testing only really works if you are tested every single day or you live in work and nobody leaves or sees anybody that was not tested. Otherwise it's not effective. That's my opinion, I am sure the so called experts here will have something different to say. Unfortunately they will be wrong.

Yep. But its still infinitely better than not being tested and as I said. I view it as just necessary to keep my job. I've got many friends who have been laid off and are now in a big financial struggle. We are privileged to still be working. Being tested is a good thing.

RCSATELLITES

dobman88 wrote: »

Yep. But its still infinitely better than not being tested and as I said. I view it as just necessary to keep my job. I've got many friends who have been laid off and are now in a big financial struggle. We are privileged to still be working. Being tested is a good thing.

I agree with you, just wondering is your company doing all the other precautionary things, like KN95 mask, temperature check at the door, hand sanitizer. Covid officer on site. Only 2 people in a big office, no air conditioning allowed on. Segregation of breaks with only 4 allowed in canteen. Questionnaire on Monday morning. Daily log of close contact.

dobman88

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

I agree with you, just wondering is your company doing all the other precautionary things,

like KN95 mask, yes we stock them and have been using them since we went back to work last April.

temperature check at the door, yes covid officer meets everyone every morning, 2 temp checks and logs it

hand sanitizer. Yes, all over the building

Covid officer on site, yes, we have 2.

. Only 2 people in a big office, all office staff working from home since last March

, no air conditioning allowed on. We have the large warehouse doors open as they need to be. Not sure what the deal is with air con

Segregation of breaks with only 4 allowed in canteen. Yes, only 2 allowed in canteen. Go in, have your lunch, get out. 1 hour break, you're allowed 30mins for use of canteen.

Questionnaire on Monday morning. Daily.

Daily log of close contact. Yes

.

I hope that answers your questions

Spook_ie

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Did you check the starting comment of the thread.
Manufacturing industry.

Plastic manufacturing.

"Hi, before anybody starts to ask why I dont want to be tested. That is not the case.

Is it legal for an employer to make screening / testing for covid-19 of non symptom staff mandatory. We have to get tested every 2 weeks for covid-19 without given consent and without a choice. It's the Manufacturing industry that I work in. It's an invasive test ( swab in nose).

Thanks in advance."

Plastic manufacturing covers many different plastics and their uses, if you were in a production facility manufacturing syringes I feel would be looked upon differently from a company manufacturing lego bricks

RCSATELLITES

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Thanks for the brilliant advise, but I like my job.

Right, but it's a balance of choices at this stage. Which do you like more, your job or not being tested?

Because it sounds like you only get to have one.

Away With The Fairies

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

It's not in the terms and conditions you muppet. I wouldn't be leaving I would have to made redundant as I am not the one changing the contract.

Are you working and are you getting tested?

Not sure why you're going in about contract changes. Your employer has a legal requirement to keep all their staff safe. Testing is just another tool to use.

Spook_ie

I suspect any legal discussion/decision would have to centre around if the plastic production was essential.

If it's not essential then then you shouldn't be travelling to work anyway, if you're not going to work then you don't need testing.

If it is essential then the manufacturer has a duty to keep the production going and would probably be allowed to mandate CoVid testing as essential to keep operating an essential service

At the end of the day it's a decision that you make, test or no test but also at the end of the day it's also a decision the company has to make, keep producing or put everyone onto PUP/furlough and hope they have a job to comeback to.

RCSATELLITES

Spook_ie wrote: »

Plastic manufacturing covers many different plastics and their uses, if you were in a production facility manufacturing syringes I feel would be looked upon differently from a company manufacturing lego bricks

Thanks for your comment, but syringes would be made in a clean room environment and appropriate ppe would normally be worn before covid existed and now. All other diseases far worse than covid were never tested for so that would not justify testing.

RCSATELLITES

Spook_ie wrote: »

I suspect any legal discussion/decision would have to centre around if the plastic production was essential.

If it's not essential then then you shouldn't be travelling to work anyway, if you're not going to work then you don't need testing.

If it is essential then the manufacturer has a duty to keep the production going and would probably be allowed to mandate CoVid testing as essential to keep operating an essential service

At the end of the day it's a decision that you make, test or no test but also at the end of the day it's also a decision the company has to make, keep producing or put everyone onto PUP/furlough and hope they have a job to comeback to.

Testing has only started recently but covid has been around for a year. And I have been working fully time for the year. And production has been going on for a year.

RCSATELLITES

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Not sure why you're going in about contract changes. Your employer has a legal requirement to keep all their staff safe. Testing is just another tool to use.

Yes within guidelines and the legal requirements of employee health and safety. Invasive testing is not one of them.

Can you answer if you are working and getting tested. I really would like to know how many of the people commenting are getting tested. Cant be different rules for different people.

RCSATELLITES

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Yes within guidelines and the legal requirements of employee health and safety. Invasive testing is not one of them.

Can you answer if you are working and getting tested. I really would like to know how many of the people commenting are getting tested. Cant be different rules for different people.

I work from home. No testing required for me.

RCSATELLITES

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Right, but it's a balance of choices at this stage. Which do you like more, your job or not being tested?

Because it sounds like you only get to have one.

A court would have to decide that.

An employer would have to justify the testing.

And the works relation commissioners would have to prove it's unfair dismissal as I had to leave due to a change in workplace.

RCSATELLITES

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I work from home. No testing required for me.

What about protecting your family. Do you not go to the shop and go past people and touch items that other people touch.

RCSATELLITES

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

What about protecting your family. Do you not go to the shop and go past people and touch items that other people touch.

I don't have a legal employment contract with my family...

NickNickleby

atilladehun wrote: »

Not only will this test help keep you in work it'll also help protect your family.

You know the way they say the vaccine is 90% effective. The mask and social distancing could be considered way less effective. Have a look at the Swiss cheese model for covid protection. Even when you do absolutely everything possible to protect yourself there's still a slight chance you get it and pass it on completely unbeknownst to yourself.

I know a household of six. One of them works in a nursing home. He is fastidious about PPE. He got a test on a Friday, and asked for another on Sunday after a colleague was confirmed on Saturday. The first test was negative. The second was positive. He was told not to report for work, and that day everyone else in the house was tested and found to be positive. THAT'S how infectious it is.

(No one else in the household was suspected of having brought it in, because they are retired/working from home.)

Now, had he not been tested, he would have been another carrier working in the nursing home.

So, if regular testing is available, I think it would be madness to refuse it. Same with vaccination.

Away With The Fairies

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Yes within guidelines and the legal requirements of employee health and safety. Invasive testing is not one of them.

Can you answer if you are working and getting tested. I really would like to know how many of the people commenting are getting tested. Cant be different rules for different people.

So you're not happy about getting tested? Do you think it's ok to have infected people on site?

Mrs OBumble

Spook_ie wrote: »

I suspect any legal discussion/decision would have to centre around if the plastic production was essential.

If it's not essential then then you shouldn't be travelling to work anyway, if you're not going to work then you don't need testing.

If it is essential then the manufacturer has a duty to keep the production going and would probably be allowed to mandate CoVid testing as essential to keep operating an essential service

Can you link to where the government has said that non-essential manufacturing must close?

grogi

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Can you link to where the government has said that non-essential manufacturing must close?

There isn't. Its just nonessential retail that are to remain closed.