The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

Finty Lemon

Who is Seamus Marley?

Finty Lemon

Tumbleweed. Maybe the lads didn't realise.

Finty Lemon

Who is Martin Morris?

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Tumbleweed. Maybe the lads didn't realise.

Didn't realise what?

Finty Lemon

PSNI have concluded tonight that there was no evidence of UVF involvement in Belfast disturbances.

smurgen

Is there just an attempt to keep this thread bumped no matter what? Bizarre posting.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you understand what the phrase 'born out of' means?

The men and women responsible for using violence went on to form FF and FG.

Again, the riots have nothing to do with FF and FG. Stop trying to derail the thread.

The modern IRA were doing the exact same thing.

No they didnt.

The old IRA didnt bomb civilian areas en mass, they didn't beat children to death, they didnt blow up and murder toddlers, they didnt rape women and then setup kangaroo courts as justice.

Even Tom Barry was disgusted and ashamed of the actions of the PIRA at the end, as was much of Ireland.

The PIRA was more like ISIS than the old IRA.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Again, the riots have nothing to do with FF and FG. Stop trying to derail the thread.{/QUOTE]

Who said they did?




No they didnt.

The old IRA didnt bomb civilian areas en mass, they didn't beat children to death, they didnt blow up and murder toddlers, they didnt rape women and then setup kangaroo courts as justice.

Even Tom Barry was disgusted and ashamed of the actions of the PIRA at the end, as was much of Ireland.

The PIRA was more like ISIS than the old IRA.

This is like the debate about terrorism.

There isno difference between being bombed from fancy aircraft at 10,000 feet and a carbomb...if you are the target. You are being 'terrorised'.

Same with the semantics about the old IRA and new IRA, both of them killed to achieve an aim.
One achieved something you benefitted from and the other achieved something others feel they benefitted from.
Pointless to continue arguing when that is the reality on this island.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is like the debate about terrorism.

There isno difference between being bombed from fancy aircraft at 10,000 feet and a carbomb...if you are the target. You are being 'terrorised'.

Correct me if I am wrong the BA or RAF didn't carpet bomb the North.
The PIRA bombed the bejesus out of the North.
Odd point to make, but the usual diversionary tactic being deployed here.

Same with the semantics about the old IRA and new IRA, both of them killed to achieve an aim.
One achieved something you benefitted from and the other achieved something others feel they benefitted from.
Pointless to continue arguing when that is the reality on this island.

Ah yea, lets not actually talk about the methods and tactics of the PIRA.... :pac:
Best thing you can do here is run away from that converstaion.

When Tom Barry feels the PIRA has gone too far, then its best to pay attention.
The older IRA were nothing like the PIRA. Very far removed in fact.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong the BA or RAF didn't carpet bomb the North.
The PIRA bombed the bejesus out of the North.
Odd point to make, but the usual diversionary tactic being deployed here.



Ah yea, lets not actually talk about the methods and tactics of the PIRA.... :pac:
Best thing you can do here is run away from that converstaion.

When Tom Barry feels the PIRA has gone too far, then its best to pay attention.
The older IRA were nothing like the PIRA. Very far removed in fact.

My concern is that people died mark.

Did innocent people die to achieve the freedoms you have now? Where they killed by the people that achieved those freedoms?

The answer to both questions is yes. Whether the old IRA would have used car bombs if they were available, I think they would have, they certainly had no compunction about killing indiscriminately as others involved did the same.

It's the hypocrisy at the heart of this semantic debate that is tired. If conflict/war breaks out innocent people pay the price...everywhere, in every conflict/war there ever was.

NovemberWren

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Your 'noble freedom fighters' used violence in just the same way as the IRA used it.

The IRA didn't originate violence or warfare.

don't like to interrupt you lot, - but sinn fein are Gets, who were cutely 'turned' by the English with promises of first pick of jobs, that S.F. believed was their Reward, in the English firms - that Sinn Fein have brought down into the South economy. (but did F.F. also sell out the South to English commerce).

The beginning of the troubles in the North started when the (English) education system gave people University Degrees, and people like Bernadette Devlin realised lives could be better; but inveterate hatred overcame that hope in the North and was kept to be their perpetual prize and excuse.
Unlike in the South after 1916/22 when there was exhilaration and attention to the future.

Sinn Fein know the value of poverty.

jimmycrackcorm

blanch152 wrote: »

No, we want him to tell the PSNI the identities of the people who told him the IRA were not involved, it is as simple as that.

I cannot envisage any politician down here refusing to do this in similar circumstances. Truly, Sinn Fein cannot be a normal party if they allow this kind of behaviour.

To be fair to Murphy, I wouldn't blame him after what happened Donald Donaldson once Gerry Adams outed him.

It's uncanny how similarly SF operate to the workers party of North Korea. Both have leaders that are appointed without opposition candidates, both have fanatic members, and to top it all, any party dissidents get knocked off.

jimmycrackcorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Correction - a senior member has information on who he spoke to. Unless you are claiming he witnessed the murder or was there? And the info he has is clearly not of any evidential use in securing a conviction.

And I agree again, they are not a normal party, no party in the north is, having evolved out of a conflict/war.

There are many cases where the Gardai get convictions based on information received from people who have spoken to the actual perpetrators. That's why they're called informants.

Also Mind blowing that you finally admit SF aren't a normal party but can't quite suggest that they shouldn't be supported until they become one.

Why support our defend a party that isn't normal when there is a plethora of others available to suit your taste?

Ted_YNWA

Finty Lemon wrote: »

TMcM. Oh sorry, that was murder, not rape

Finty Lemon wrote: »

It was Liam Adams I was thinking about. Hard to keep track of who did what.

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Who is Seamus Marley?

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Who is Martin Morris?

Mod

Don't start throwing around names without any kind of evidence or backup news articles

Fann Linn

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

To be fair to Murphy, I wouldn't blame him after what happened Donald Donaldson once Gerry Adams outed him.

It's uncanny how similarly SF operate to the workers party of North Korea. Both have leaders that are appointed without opposition candidates, both have fanatic members, and to top it all, any party dissidents get knocked off.

Like Eamonn Gilmore's workers party who was happily ensconced in govt here.

FrancieBrady

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There are many cases where the Gardai get convictions based on information received from people who have spoken to the actual perpetrators. That's why they're called informants.

Also Mind blowing that you finally admit SF aren't a normal party but can't quite suggest that they shouldn't be supported until they become one.

Why support our defend a party that isn't normal when there is a plethora of others available to suit your taste?

I have always said they are not a normal party in the context of what they have come through.

I was watching Twitter last night and saw them (SF members) out on the street trying o stop young people responding and putting themselves in harms way.

Cant quite see many of our 'normal' politicians doing that, can you?

BTW, I 'support' action not words as a general rule in my life.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have always said they are not a normal party in the context of what they have come through.

I was watching Twitter last night and saw them (SF members) out on the street trying o stop young people responding and putting themselves in harms way.

Cant quite see many of our 'normal' politicians doing that, can you?

BTW, I 'support' action not words as a general rule in my life.

Have to agree with you Francie as I can't see a normal political party putting itself about as a replacement for the legitimate democratic police force.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Have to agree with you Francie as I can't see a normal political party putting itself about as a replacement for the legitimate democratic police force.

'Replacement'?

SF support the policing board blanch, unlike Unionists and others who have undermined that board because they didn't like a 'decision'.

The PSNI asked for community leaders to get involved in ending the violence BTW.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40259147.html

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Replacement'?

SF support the policing board blanch, unlike Unionists and others who have undermined that board because they didn't like a 'decision'.

The PSNI asked for community leaders to get involved in ending the violence BTW.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40259147.html

You can't have it both ways, Francie. You said in your previous post that they were out on the street trying to stop people. That is not what the PSNI asked for. That is not what normal political parties do (and another in a long list of Covid breaches by Sinn Fein).

Sending SF thugs out on the street to police young people is not the right answer to anything.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You can't have it both ways, Francie. You said in your previous post that they were out on the street trying to stop people. That is not what the PSNI asked for. That is not what normal political parties do (and another in a long list of Covid breaches by Sinn Fein).

Sending SF thugs out on the street to police young people is not the right answer to anything.

What?

Normal political parties here stand idly by mainly on the north.

So you think it was the right thing to do to allow young people respond to deliberate provocation?

What are you proposing community leaders do? More talk and no action?

Does this count as a "conflict"

If so, sure it doesnt matter what anyone says or thinks, anything you do at all is ok.

Am i doing that right?

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

Have to agree with you Francie as I can't see a normal political party putting itself about as a replacement for the legitimate democratic police force.

The same legitimate democratic police force who found no charges should be prosecuted against SF members at Storey's funeral. That PSNI?

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have always said they are not a normal party in the context of what they have come through.

I was watching Twitter last night and saw them (SF members) out on the street trying o stop young people responding and putting themselves in harms way.

Cant quite see many of our 'normal' politicians doing that, can you?

BTW, I 'support' action not words as a general rule in my life.

Maybe if they hadn’t several thousand ‘magpies’ out on the road for the ‘funeral’ of a guy who spent 20 years in prison it might have cooled the situation.

Couldn’t resist the big ‘send off’ for Bobby,and the big ‘ fuhhrke off’ to the police , and then they wonder why it all kicks off when they get away scot free.

Complete deflection there Francis, in no way believable or valid.

Your boys stepped out of line.... suck it up dude..... for once.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Maybe if they hadn’t several thousand ‘magpies’ out on the road for the ‘funeral’ of a guy who spent 20 years in prison it might have cooled the situation.

Couldn’t resist the big ‘send off’ for Bobby,and the big ‘ fuhhrke off’ to the police , and then they wonder why it all kicks off when they get away scot free.

Complete deflection there Francis, in no way believable or valid.

Your boys stepped out of line.... suck it up dude..... for once.

Don't think anyone is buying the 'it's all the shinners fault' line Brendi. Arlene made that mistake on the auld tweet machine and is being castigated left right and centre.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't think anyone is buying the 'it's all the shinners fault' line Brendi. Arlene made that mistake on the auld tweet machine and is being castigated left right and centre.

Nick Robinson on R4 certainly doesn’t agree with you Francis.

I’m afraid even you can’t weasel out of this one, a chara.

Have a good day.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nick Robinson on R4 certainly doesn’t agree with you Francis.

I’m afraid even you can’t weasel out of this one, a chara.

Have a good day.

Didn’t have you down as a R4 listener, Brendan. More a Liveline and Country FM sort was my opinion.

Brendan Bendar

Deleted User wrote: »

Didn’t have you down as a R4 listener, Brendan. More a Liveline and Country FM sort was my opinion.

Eclectic tastes Dr. As an aside as I’m sure you’ll agree,folk here tend to be very one track.

Can’t deviate from the a position, and like loads here just drive an agenda ad infinitum.

Like yersel,Dr, I’m a kind of dude who doesn’t box himself into a position, sees the big picture, and, well, doesn’t like their field of vision blocked by a ditch, or their bank of youth burgled by stony idealism.


If you get my dhhhrift............:p

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nick Robinson on R4 certainly doesn’t agree with you Francis.

I’m afraid even you can’t weasel out of this one, a chara.

Have a good day.

Who?

You found somebody in British media to agree with you? Excellent. That's you, Arlene and Nick.

Fionn1952

Are we just going to ignore the fact that the rioting is being claimed as in response to the NI Protocol (likely most engaging in rioting don't understand the NI Protocol and are totally unimpacted by it, beyond a perceived sleight on their Britishness)?

Suppose a few will be along to explain why that one is SF's fault too.

A real root cause analysis would focus on the lack of opportunity seen by many working class Loyalist youths since the, 'jobs for the boys' type posts in H&W and the, 'my Da is in the RUC so I've a job waiting for me no matter what' careers have disappeared, with very little encouragement/focus on education (academic or otherwise) as a way out, the continued control Loyalist paramilitaries still have over these areas and their manipulation of said youths to allow them to keep their hands cleaner. It goes much, much deeper than trying to pin it on Bobby Storey's funeral (even if the rioters weren't claiming it was due to the NI protocol), and even if SF dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow and the NI Protocol was magically solved, it wouldn't fix a damn thing.

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Are we just going to ignore the fact that the rioting is being claimed as in response to the NI Protocol (likely most engaging in rioting don't understand the NI Protocol and are totally unimpacted by it, beyond a perceived sleight on their Britishness)?

Suppose a few will be along to explain why that one is SF's fault too.

A real root cause analysis would focus on the lack of opportunity seen by many working class Loyalist youths since the, 'jobs for the boys' type posts in H&W and the, 'my Da is in the RUC so I've a job waiting for me no matter what' careers have disappeared, with very little encouragement/focus on education (academic or otherwise) as a way out, the continued control Loyalist paramilitaries still have over these areas and their manipulation of said youths to allow them to keep their hands cleaner. It goes much, much deeper than trying to pin it on Bobby Storey's funeral (even if the rioters weren't claiming it was due to the NI protocol), and even if SF dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow and the NI Protocol was magically solved, it wouldn't fix a damn thing.

Much of the media coverage has attributed the rioting to both issues. Certainly the failures of the PSNI with regard to the Storey funeral and the refusal of Sinn Fein to accept the democratic outcome of the Assembly motions have not gone down well.