The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

blanch152

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/people/sinn-feins-michelle-oneill-acknowledges-impact-of-death-of-duke-of-edinburgh-i-recognise-the-sense-of-loss-that-will-be-felt-by-many-people-across-our-community-particularly-those-of-unionist-tradition-or-those-who-have-a-3197570


Sinn Fein rarely deserve any credit, so I have to say well done to Michelle O'Neill and her words on the death of Prince Phillip. It is the first time I have seen a SF politician actually speak as if they understood the other side.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/lawto-stop-social-media-management-abroad-for-political-parties-after-sinn-fein-revelations-40301728.html


"He wants to ban parties from transferring funding or resources from branches of their organisation based outside of Ireland into the State for electoral purposes.

The new legislation will mean any transfer of “money or resources” will be treated as a political donation that will limit the amount parties can transfer between their organisation to €2,500."

This is good news. It is very wrong for political organisations outside the State to be able to buy influence in the State in this way.


"It is also aimed at banning politicians from receiving training or political advice paid for by units of their party based outside of the country.

It will also prohibit parties from commissioning and paying for political research outside of the State and transferring the findings to operations in the country.

It will also stop parties from deploying paid party officials based in other countries to campaign during elections in Ireland."

These measures are also welcome as no State should have their politics influenced by outsiders. The murky role played by FOSF in the US should become clearer thanks to this legislation.

I'm not sure it'll be quite so welcome in some FF circles, given how heavily they've depended on Peter MacDonagh over in Prague for quite some time....

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'm not sure it'll be quite so welcome in some FF circles, given how heavily they've depended on Peter MacDonagh over in Prague for quite some time....

So? Who cares when it is the right thing to do?

I take it you have no objection to the ending of the foreign influence.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

So? Who cares when it is the right thing to do?

I take it you have no objection to the ending of the foreign influence.

I wouldn't look at it quite so black and white as that. An Irish citizen living elsewhere for a few years? I'd mostly be fine with them having some degree of influence.....Russian attempts to destabilise the EU, American fundamentalist Christians attempting to influence our referenda or indeed American members of FOSF trying to actively influence things on the ground here in Ireland I'm not so fine with.

I suspect when legislation like this is brought in directly in response to (as far as I'm aware) an Irish person in Serbia being one of many people with access to a social media page, we're taking a sledgehammer to a thumbtack really though.

Dyr

blanch152 wrote: »

This whataboutery is exactly why Sinn Fein are a threat to our democracy.

They don't realise or understand the difference between foreign money being pumped into the democratic processes of elections on the one hand and commercial undertakings on the other. A state's democracy is corrupt if foreign money and organisations can interfere in elections.

That there is resistance to stamping it out says it all about corruption and Sinn Fein.

I'm fully in favour of it. As you said "These measures are also welcome as no State should have their politics influenced by outsiders". I'm on board with that but it appears that you are not.

I'm just curious why you cant follow your own logic and demand that our politics not be influenced by outsiders such as NGOs, Religious extremists and foreign powers? Its almost like your focus is only on thwarting SF rather than ensuring there is no foreing influence in our politics

piplip87

Not often i say this but well done SF. Very grown up behaviour by SF in their handling of Prince Philips death. A real step forward.

Unfortunately again their supporters let them down though. I follow a few SF accounts and I am a member of a few SF groups on Facebook. The abuse Micheal Martin and Micheal D took for expressing condolences after the death is unreal yet the exact same accounts are now hailing Michelle and Marylou for doing the same.

Fionn1952

piplip87 wrote: »

Not often i say this but well done SF. Very grown up behaviour by SF in their handling of Prince Philips death. A real step forward.

Unfortunately again their supporters let them down though. I follow a few SF accounts and I am a member of a few SF groups on Facebook. The abuse Micheal Martin and Micheal D took for expressing condolences after the death is unreal yet the exact same accounts are now hailing Michelle and Marylou for doing the same.

I think most rational people can put aside what they think of the concept of Monarchy enough to sympathise with a relatively inoffensive woman who has lost her husband of 70 years. A handful of gobsh*tes playing Billy Big Balls on Twitter or Facebook isn't really reflective of reality.

blanch152

piplip87 wrote: »

Not often i say this but well done SF. Very grown up behaviour by SF in their handling of Prince Philips death. A real step forward.

Unfortunately again their supporters let them down though. I follow a few SF accounts and I am a member of a few SF groups on Facebook. The abuse Micheal Martin and Micheal D took for expressing condolences after the death is unreal yet the exact same accounts are now hailing Michelle and Marylou for doing the same.

That is not a surprise at all.

FrancieBrady

Funny really. The monarchy have been interacting with SF for yonks now. The queen and McG having a giggle springs to mind and commiserations were offered to her on the death of the queen mum.

Not very well informed posts there.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Funny really. The monarchy have been interacting with SF for yonks now. The queen and McG having a giggle springs to mind and commiserations were offered to her on the death of the queen mum.

Not very well informed posts there.

Are you saying that piplip was not telling the truth about the Facebook Shinners?

piplip87 wrote: »

Unfortunately again their supporters let them down though. I follow a few SF accounts and I am a member of a few SF groups on Facebook. The abuse Micheal Martin and Micheal D took for expressing condolences after the death is unreal yet the exact same accounts are now hailing Michelle and Marylou for doing the same.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Are you saying that piplip was not telling the truth about the Facebook Shinners?

No, I think you know what I am referencing. The surprise shown by you and others shows a lack of knowledge.

And Pip kinda shows the problem with making pronouncements about those who comment on social media.

He/She is a member of a SF group...but isn't a Shinner. How do you know people making rude comments are Shinners?
I'd have no doubt that there are many SHinners who are anti monarchy as many others are too. See some UK homegrown vitriol about their own monarchy.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, I think you know what I am referencing. The surprise shown by you and others shows a lack of knowledge.

And Pip kinda shows the problem with making pronouncements about those who comment on social media.

He/She is a member of a SF group...but isn't a Shinner. How do you know people making rude comments are Shinners?
I'd have no doubt that there are many SHinners who are anti monarchy as many others are too. See some UK homegrown vitriol about their own monarchy.

I don't think so. We see weasel words of apology from SF politicians all the time, so to see an honest condolence is more than a little surprising.

Genuineness is nearly always absent from SF pronouncements.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't think so. We see weasel words of apology from SF politicians all the time, so to see an honest condolence is more than a little surprising.

Genuineness is nearly always absent from SF pronouncements.

That's great that we have an arbiter of what is sincere on here.

markodaly

piplip87 wrote: »

Not often i say this but well done SF. Very grown up behaviour by SF in their handling of Prince Philips death. A real step forward.

Unfortunately again their supporters let them down though. I follow a few SF accounts and I am a member of a few SF groups on Facebook. The abuse Micheal Martin and Micheal D took for expressing condolences after the death is unreal yet the exact same accounts are now hailing Michelle and Marylou for doing the same.

In fairness, we all know SF and their relationship to their online supporters is like a cult.

piplip87

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, I think you know what I am referencing. The surprise shown by you and others shows a lack of knowledge.

And Pip kinda shows the problem with making pronouncements about those who comment on social media.

He/She is a member of a SF group...but isn't a Shinner. How do you know people making rude comments are Shinners?
I'd have no doubt that there are many SHinners who are anti monarchy as many others are too. See some UK homegrown vitriol about their own monarchy.

No there's people on time timeline and on my twitter feed who have commented vile abuse because the Taoiseach and President extended sympathies to the British people and the Royal family. Less than 24 hours later these exact same people are praising Marylou for doing the same.

There is a massive amount of SF support that cannot think for themselves. They are blinded by party loyalty and will not speak out against their leader. Its the same for all parties but SF are by and far the worst for it.

Saying that I have to compliment the SF leadership again that was a massive step for them. I have no doubt there will be some members joining RSF because of it though.

FrancieBrady

piplip87 wrote: »

No there's people on time timeline and on my twitter feed who have commented vile abuse because the Taoiseach and President extended sympathies to the British people and the Royal family. Less than 24 hours later these exact same people are praising Marylou for doing the same.

There is a massive amount of SF support that cannot think for themselves. They are blinded by party loyalty and will not speak out against their leader. Its the same for all parties but SF are by and far the worst for it.

Saying that I have to compliment the SF leadership again that was a massive step for them. I have no doubt there will be some members joining RSF because of it though.

I have to say again, that this sympatising is not unique. The queen in fairness to her sent sympathies to Martin McGuinness's wife on his death. The mutual respect is older than the weekend.

blanch152

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-under-pressure-to-reveal-location-of-its-secret-voter-database-40306631.html

This gets even more sinister the more we hear about it.

"The party is also refusing to say who developed the database or reveal how Sinn Féin paid for the sophisticated canvassing system."

"Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and Labour said they do not have similar centralised voter databases."

"An internal Sinn Féin document shows the party scanned details of the marked register and party officials are asked to update the database with local knowledge.

Voters are ranked in the system as ‘hard’ or ‘soft’ Sinn Féin voters or as ‘legacy supporters’ if they voted for the party in a previous elections."

This is a real serious threat to our democracy where a political party is creating secret files on ordinary voters. If they ever got to power, would they misuse that knowledge to target those who didn't vote for them? The potential implications of such a database are huge and there is not a single positive element to it.

blanch152

piplip87 wrote: »

No there's people on time timeline and on my twitter feed who have commented vile abuse because the Taoiseach and President extended sympathies to the British people and the Royal family. Less than 24 hours later these exact same people are praising Marylou for doing the same.

There is a massive amount of SF support that cannot think for themselves. They are blinded by party loyalty and will not speak out against their leader. Its the same for all parties but SF are by and far the worst for it.

Saying that I have to compliment the SF leadership again that was a massive step for them. I have no doubt there will be some members joining RSF because of it though.

As I said already, there is no surprise there in the way that SF supporters have behaved in relation to the death of Prince Philip. As for the leadership, that was a surprise but given their secret file on every voter in the country being revealed, they didn't need another controversy.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-under-pressure-to-reveal-location-of-its-secret-voter-database-40306631.html

This gets even more sinister the more we hear about it.

"The party is also refusing to say who developed the database or reveal how Sinn Féin paid for the sophisticated canvassing system."

"Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and Labour said they do not have similar centralised voter databases."

"An internal Sinn Féin document shows the party scanned details of the marked register and party officials are asked to update the database with local knowledge.

Voters are ranked in the system as ‘hard’ or ‘soft’ Sinn Féin voters or as ‘legacy supporters’ if they voted for the party in a previous elections."

This is a real serious threat to our democracy where a political party is creating secret files on ordinary voters. If they ever got to power, would they misuse that knowledge to target those who didn't vote for them? The potential implications of such a database are huge and there is not a single positive element to it.

get off yer horse. an organised party who has a detailed up to date database - ie a party who are efficient at what they do.

no wonder you think SF are no normal party ... efficiency and organisation isnt something you could attach to the Greens, FG or FF

Finty Lemon

maccored wrote: »

get off yer horse. an organised party who has a detailed up to date database - ie a party who are efficient at what they do.

no wonder you think SF are no normal party ... efficiency and organisation isnt something you could attach to the Greens, FG or FF

Military precision, you could say

blanch152

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Military precision, you could say

It is quite scary the way that this is being dismissed by Sinn Fein supporters.

If it was Microsoft or Fine Gael or Communicorp that had a secret database on every adult in the country, Sinn Fein would be protesting in the streets, demanding resignations etc. However, Sinn Fein are different, and as many have said, not a normal party.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It is quite scary the way that this is being dismissed by Sinn Fein supporters.

If it was Microsoft or Fine Gael or Communicorp that had a secret database on every adult in the country, Sinn Fein would be protesting in the streets, demanding resignations etc. However, Sinn Fein are different, and as many have said, not a normal party.

How is it 'secret' if we all know about it? Jaysus.

piplip87

The main questions regarding this system are:

1) Is it GDPR compliant? Who can access the information. Do they link in with Sub agents in the polling centres to see if those who said they would vote for them have voted? What if they haven't, will a SF rep land at your door asking why you haven't voted ? This has happened round here a few times.

2) Who paid for it. A system like this must cost a nice penny.

The reality from Dotherthy buying SF offices with cash, to out sourcing social media management, to splitting the party into two separate entities to take an inheritance there is serious questions to be answered before SIPO about the funding of this party.

Maybe its all innocent maybe its not.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How is it 'secret' if we all know about it? Jaysus.

I don't know what information Sinn Fein hold on me. That makes it secret, and any information they hold on me is held without my permission, and that is a breach of GDPR.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't know what information Sinn Fein hold on me. That makes it secret, and any information they hold on me is held without my permission, and that is a breach of GDPR.

You can request that info under GDPR. Why don't you? You can also do it with multiple other agencies and public bodies. My son has done this quite successfully with a body in this country.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can request that info under GDPR. Why don't you? You can also do it with multiple other agencies and public bodies. My son has done this quite successfully with a body in this country.

I wouldn't want to end up in an unmarked grave somewhere in a bog, so I'll let the authorities deal with it. Then again, they probably have me marked down for that destination if they ever get into power.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I wouldn't want to end up in an unmarked grave somewhere in a bog, so I'll let the authorities deal with it. Then again, they probably have me marked down for that destination if they ever get into power.

Oh yeh I forgot...the people disappearing off our streets to be buried in unmarked graves evidence that was presented to back up this tired old trope. Silly me.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can request that info under GDPR. Why don't you? You can also do it with multiple other agencies and public bodies. My son has done this quite successfully with a body in this country.

In fairness on this one, it is shifty as hell and I can understand people's discomfort. I take my data privacy quite seriously, and would quite actively monitor what permissions I give so I'm 100% certain at no point have I opted in to anything with SF.

I'll be sending a subject access request to see what data they may be holding on me; I'm particularly curious about whether SF here have information on whether I voted SF when living in the North.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

In fairness on this one, it is shifty as hell and I can understand people's discomfort. I take my data privacy quite seriously, and would quite actively monitor what permissions I give.

I'll be sending a subject access request to see what data they may be holding on me; I'm particularly curious about whether SF here have information on whether I voted SF when living in the North.

Absolutely agree. Which is why I said there may be GDPR issues with this, from the get go.

Let us know how you get on. Be careful of the unmarked grave though!

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can request that info under GDPR. Why don't you? You can also do it with multiple other agencies and public bodies. My son has done this quite successfully with a body in this country.

Can you explain what you mean here please? When you say you can request 'that information', what are you referring to? The information that is held by SF about an individual? Or the information that is held by the state on an individual? Those would be quite different things but I have possibly misinterpreted your point.