The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

So if it is our journalism (An Phravda) that is biased, misleading, disingenuous, inaccurate and mostly propaganda, that is fine, but all other journalists can't be?

Do I understand your position correctly?

Never read an issue of that publication you are nicknaming (Marine Layer will no doubt be on to you shortly) in my life blanch, I know it is likely to be propaganda.

I have to be smarter when reading the less blatant (mostly but certainly not always) publications.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Never read an issue of that publication you are nicknaming (Marine Layer will no doubt be on to you shortly) in my life blanch, I know it is likely to be propaganda.

I have to be smarter when reading the less blatant (mostly but certainly not always) publications.

Well then, you will understand therefore, that in that context, I take accusations of bias and propaganda from Sinn Fein supporters/party members/acolytes/defenders with more than one grain of salt and remind myself of the "Do what I say, not what I do" approach of the Sinn Fein leadership.

StupidLikeAFox

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The reaction is to the usual's finding the Shinners guilty without any evidence of what is going on.
The reaction is also to the accusation that they are not answering questions. They are...to the relevant person, the DPC.
No more than any other party, SF are not answerable to the Indo and it's staff.

So just to summarise:
- Every party has this type of database, its no big deal
- This story is a conspiracy to deflect from Leos legal issues
- The story is bollix because its in the independent (ignoring the other outlets that are reporting it)
- There is nothing to see here, move along and don't be asking questions

It would be great if SF just came out and described what was going on with this system, it would put the whole thing to bed.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Well then, you will understand therefore, that in that context, I take accusations of bias and propaganda from Sinn Fein supporters/party members/acolytes/defenders with more than one grain of salt and remind myself of the "Do what I say, not what I do" approach of the Sinn Fein leadership.

You are buying a Sinn Fein publication blanch. If you buy a Seamus Heaney book you don't expect to read John Montague's poem's. Reader beware and all that.

When you buy an independent newspaper you don't expect to read party propaganda.

The poster suspects that is what it is. Not the first nor the last time, no doubt, that the Indo will be accused of that in the context of SF.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are buying a Sinn Fein publication blanch. If you buy a Seamus Heaney book you don't expect to read John Montague's poem's. Reader beware and all that.

When you buy an independent newspaper you don't expect to read party propaganda.

The poster suspects that is what it is. Not the first nor the last time, no doubt, that the Indo will be accused of that in the context of SF.

Don't buy that at all, and that isn't the point or the issue.

You can't be from a constituency or viewpoint that is buried up to its neck in media that is propaganda, tells lies, twists the truth and then complain about others doing the same. It is rank hypocrisy at best.

FrancieBrady

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

So just to summarise:
- Every party has this type of database, its no big deal

Not claimed by me. I have said there may be GDPR issues.

- This story is a conspiracy to deflect from Leos legal issues

Quite possible.

- The story is bollix because its in the independent (ignoring the other outlets that are reporting it)

Quite possible too.

- There is nothing to see here, move along and don't be asking questions

See number 1.

It would be great if SF just came out and described what was going on with this system, it would put the whole thing to bed.

They have said they believe they are compliant. They are dealing with the DPC.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Don't buy that at all, and that isn't the point or the issue.

You can't be from a constituency or viewpoint that is buried up to its neck in media that is propaganda, tells lies, twists the truth and then complain about others doing the same. It is rank hypocrisy at best.

Is that an admission that the Indo is buried up to it's neck in propaganda etc?

I'd love to see publications from other parties that are critical of themselves and don't blow their own trumpets. That would add to the discussion, no doubt. Got any? How is it done in 'normal' parties?

markodaly

jmcc wrote: »

How and what part of the GDPR has been breached?

Have you had access to the SF Abu sysem or are you just relying on the stuff from Varadkar's biographer?

Regards...jmcc

There was no consent by the people who were objects of the data to be entered into the Abu system.

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

There was no consent by the people who were objects of the data to be entered into the Abu system.

Correct, and none of the filibustering around here has addressed that issue.

markodaly

jmcc wrote: »

This is Ireland. There is no such thing as a "free and open press". All newspapers have an agenda. Until the recent firesale, IN&M's largest shareholder was the lucky recipient of the second mobile licence courtesy of FG. The same IN&M shareholder also owned some of the main radio stations such as Newstalk and Today FM. Cross-media ownership legislation was ignored for years.

Regards...jmcc

Ireland has "no free and open press"?
Yet more populsit and conspiracy theory nonsense dressed up as some debate point.

https://rsf.org/en/ranking

Ireland ranks 13 out of 180 countries, ahead of Iceland, Canada, Austria and France to name a few.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Ireland has "no free and open press"?
Yet more populsit and conspiracy theory nonsense dressed up as some debate point.

https://rsf.org/en/ranking

Ireland ranks 13 out of 180 countries, ahead of Iceland, Canada, Austria and France to name a few.

Hmmm, I think the poster might have a point based on what you have uncovered mark.

sustaining a prohibitive atmosphere for journalists reporting stories involving high-profile public figures and significant private interests.

The continued lack of this much-needed defamation reform and disproportionately high defamation damages continued to present significant threats to press freedom in Ireland.

The highly concentrated nature of media ownership also presented concerns for the plurality and independence of media,

Vested interests promoting their agendas?

maccored

ever see when certain posters used to say SF would get destroyed come the next election - then the election would come and SF would gain seats and the same posters would conveniently forget their predictions .... will this whole 'abu' thing be the same once it ends up being a story about nothing (like all the other SF stories i nthis thread)? Will any of those harping on about it now admit they had been hoodwinked by individuals with their own political agendas?

I doubt it.

markodaly

As I said, 13th out of 180.

We are in the top 7% of the world, which means the bottom 93% of the world have a less free press than Ireland.

Now, if you want to give out that we are not number 1, then fine, but that is kinda a ridiculous talking point.

It is just another in the long line of negative talking points that everything in Ireland is crap and bad and shoddy, driven by negative SF social media, to hype up anger and fear, which is a powerful motivational tool for politicians to wield, but those chickens will come home to roost one day for SF.

markodaly

maccored wrote: »

ever see when certain posters used to say SF would get destroyed come the next election - then the election would come and SF would gain seats and the same posters would conveniently forget their predictions .... will this whole 'abu' thing be the same once it ends up being a story about nothing (like all the other SF stories i nthis thread)? Will any of those harping on about it now admit they had been hoodwinked by individuals with their own political agendas?

I doubt it.

Given your earlier wrong pronouncements about GDPR, which flung a lot of egg in your face when the DPC began an investigation, it is best perhaps you stay away from the Abu story.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

As I said, 13th out of 180.

We are in the top 7% of the world, which means the bottom 93% of the world have a less free press than Ireland.

Now, if you want to give out that we are not number 1, then fine, but that is kinda a ridiculous talking point.

It is just another in the long line of negative talking points that everything in Ireland is crap and bad and shoddy, driven by negative SF social media, to hype up anger and fear, which is a powerful motivational tool for politicians to wield, but those chickens will come home to roost one day for SF.

13th mark. Which means the press have issues.

You shot yourself in the foot there. The 'report' highlights issues that the poster was referring to - independence.

There clearly isn't evidence that our press is 'free' and independent. And there are reasons given for why that is in the report you rushed to bring us.

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

As I said, 13th out of 180.

We are in the top 7% of the world, which means the bottom 93% of the world have a less free press than Ireland.

Now, if you want to give out that we are not number 1, then fine, but that is kinda a ridiculous talking point.

It is just another in the long line of negative talking points that everything in Ireland is crap and bad and shoddy, driven by negative SF social media, to hype up anger and fear, which is a powerful motivational tool for politicians to wield, but those chickens will come home to roost one day for SF.

Ireland regularly and repeatedly features at or near the top of all of these indices.

Ireland is top 7% in free presee
Ireland is in the top 20 of least corrupt societies
Ireland has the most progressive income tax regime in the world
Ireland has among the highest social welfare rates in the world
Adjusting for population profile, Ireland is among the highest per capita spend on health in the world.
Ireland has one of the highest percentage of home-ownership vis-a-vis rental in the world.

These are the facts. Yet, if you spend five minutes listening to any Sinn Fein spokesperson, you would think that the opposite was the case.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Ireland regularly and repeatedly features at or near the top of all of these indices.

Ireland is top 7% in free presee
Ireland is in the top 20 of least corrupt societies
Ireland has the most progressive income tax regime in the world
Ireland has among the highest social welfare rates in the world
Adjusting for population profile, Ireland is among the highest per capita spend on health in the world.
Ireland has one of the highest percentage of home-ownership vis-a-vis rental in the world.

These are the facts. Yet, if you spend five minutes listening to any Sinn Fein spokesperson, you would think that the opposite was the case.

Ireland, according to the compilers of the index presented has these issues with it's press.

sustaining a prohibitive atmosphere for journalists reporting stories involving high-profile public figures and significant private interests.

The continued lack of this much-needed defamation reform and disproportionately high defamation damages continued to present significant threats to press freedom in Ireland.

The highly concentrated nature of media ownership also presented concerns for the plurality and independence of media,

The poster, you are attacking, has more in common with the compilers of the index than you guys, blanch and mark.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

13th mark. Which means the press have issues.

You shot yourself in the foot there. The 'report' highlights issues that the poster was referring to - independence.

There clearly isn't evidence that our press is 'free' and independent. And there are reasons given for why that is in the report you rushed to bring us.

Clearly, a news publication owned by a political party would be a factor in the lack of independence?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Clearly, a news publication owned by a political party would be a factor in the lack of independence?

By definition it isn't 'independent' as I said. I offered you the opportunity to present a party publication that was 'independent' but you have so far declined.
That you continue to use a party publication to defend a supposedly independent newspaper is frankly bizarre.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

By definition it isn't 'independent' as I said. I offered you the opportunity to present a party publication that was 'independent' but you have so far declined.
That you continue to use a party publication to defend a supposedly independent newspaper is frankly bizarre.

It's either a part of the media or it isn't.

I am not aware of any other party publication available on general sale to the public.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It's either a part of the media or it isn't.

I am not aware of any other party publication available on general sale to the public.

Ireland's Own is part of media too.

I don't think An Phoblacht is on 'general sale' for a long time now. Is it even in print anymore?

skimpydoo

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

So basically its the journalists fault and something to do with leos legal issues.

If any political party was gleaning information from social media to build a database of voters, without their consent, id want to know what was going on. I don't know why you want SF to get a free pass on this

I would want to know what is going on too, like all of us do. However, with one caveat, the journalist covering this story has to be impartial. If it was the biographer of SF I would not want them to cover the story as I know they will spin it a certain way. The same way that Leo's biographer without all the knowledge is spinning the story at the moment. I am saying this because I know more about GDPR than the average Joe on the street. Why hasn't Philip Ryan spoken to Adrian Weckler the tech editor with the Independent to get his views on this? Adrian would give some perspective and the facts.

I want all the facts to come out and if there is any wrongdoing I hope they get punished and not just punished for being SF. If Leo's followers don't agree with this, well then so be it. As a journalist I want the story to be told in a proper and fair manner with no spin.

StupidLikeAFox

The story has also been covered by the Irish times, the Irish examiner, bbc, rte and even the Irish news so I wouldn't get too hung up on shooting the messenger

skimpydoo

blanch152 wrote: »

Clearly, a news publication owned by a political party would be a factor in the lack of independence?

What about a party leader? I am thinking of The Irish Press.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

13th mark. Which means the press have issues.

Top 7% in the world, yet we have 'issues'.

Laughable. No one takes the stuff you say seriously.
Again, it seems only perfection will do for some.

RandomName2

jmcc wrote: »

rather than comics pushing party propaganda

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3e/44/e3/3e44e3e24a67864e23ebbb5e5023a3fe.jpg

jmcc

markodaly wrote: »

Ireland has "no free and open press"?
Yet more populsit and conspiracy theory nonsense dressed up as some debate point.

https://rsf.org/en/ranking

Ireland ranks 13 out of 180 countries, ahead of Iceland, Canada, Austria and France to name a few.

You don't understand the link that you are quoting.

The main concerns that the link above mentioned about press freedom in Ireland have already been posted. This one deals specifically with media concentration:

"The highly concentrated nature of media ownership also presented concerns for the plurality and independence of media, and fed into a crisis of sustainability for local media. Independent News and Media (INM) controlled much of the daily and Sunday newspaper market, while broadcasting continued to be dominated by the semi-state company RTE - itself facing mounting financial burdens that threaten its continued stability. Many regional titles found themselves on the brink of financial collapse in 2020. "

https://rsf.org/en/ireland

Perhaps the next time you use a link to support your argument, you should check that it does.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

markodaly wrote: »

Given your earlier wrong pronouncements about GDPR, which flung a lot of egg in your face when the DPC began an investigatio.

The DPC has not begun an investigation. The DPC has written to SF about the system and asked questions. SF has to respond.

Perhaps things are different with FG where the outcome of any investigation is decided before there is any investigation but the DPC has not, as yet, opened an investigation.

Regards...jmcc

maccored

markodaly wrote: »

Given your earlier wrong pronouncements about GDPR, which flung a lot of egg in your face when the DPC began an investigation, it is best perhaps you stay away from the Abu story.

What in gods name are you on about now? What were my ‘pronouncements’ about gdpr?

Also - why would i take advice from yourself?

jmcc

skimpydoo wrote: »

Why hasn't Philip Ryan spoken to Adrian Weckler the tech editor with the Independent to get his views on this? Adrian would give some perspective and the facts.

Weckler's comments on this would have been interesting as he studied law. He might, as a result, have a better understanding of GDPR.

Regards...jmcc