The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

blanch152

RandomName2 wrote: »

I'm beginning to doubt whether you know what the word 'deflection' means.

If you hold the position that Sinn Fein are to be 100% believed that they are fully compliant with all aspects of GDPR and that consent is either not needed or has been fully obtained from every adult in the country, then you might consider the issue itself to be deflection.

However, it is not really a tenuous position.

RandomName2

blanch152 wrote: »

If you hold the position that Sinn Fein are to be 100% believed that they are fully compliant with all aspects of GDPR and that consent is either not needed or has been fully obtained from every adult in the country, then you might consider the issue itself to be deflection.

However, it is not really a tenuous position.

That might be the motive, but the actual method is poisoning the well (saying that all news sources should be disbelieved unless personally vetted by himself), saying that people shouldn't discuss it because they aren't adequately qualified, saying that people are only discussing it because of some Fine Gael conspiracy, concluding in advance that the entire story is propaganda.

I think that about sums it up.

From the Indo:

Mr Ó Broin said he does not record voter information in the Abú system because he has a “very good” memory and remembers the name and addresses of voters which he checks on the electoral register during election campaigns.

Now we all know that Ó Broin has an absolutely enormous intellect, and is very much the Richard Feynman of the Oireachtas. Being able to process this level of information in his supercomputer brain (JMCC will probably pop in to tell me I know nothing about that either) comes easy to him.

What about the, er, more average members of Team SF? The Ellis and Ó Snodaigh sorts. The common man.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

If you hold the position that Sinn Fein are to be 100% believed that they are fully compliant with all aspects of GDPR and that consent is either not needed or has been fully obtained from every adult in the country, then you might consider the issue itself to be deflection.

However, it is not really a tenuous position.

lets wait and see.

Commissioner Helen Dixon wrote to the party seeking confirmation about its Abu system and whether it is GDPR compliant.

Ó Broin said the party has provided full responses to all the questions.

“Our view is we’re fully compliant with the Data Protection Act of 2018,” he added.

“What we do with the electoral register is what any professional party does, we use the register to target our voters, and to ensure we get our vote out on election day – that is legally permissible under the Data Protection Act."

markodaly

maccored wrote: »

lets wait and see.

O'Brion is clearly wrong and what he is admitting to is a breach of GDPR rules.

expectationlost

Sinn Féin seeks names and addresses of Irish Facebook users https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-seeks-names-and-addresses-of-irish-facebook-users-40332944.html the survey https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/?active_status=all&ad_type=political_and_issue_ads&country=IE&q=sinn%20fein&sort_data[direction]=desc&sort_data[mode]=relevancy_monthly_grouped&search_type=keyword_unordered

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FG have this policylab which asks for constituency and county and other demographic info but doesn't ask for your eircode https://t.co/TAwA1yOR9u?amp=1 but it and says the inof will only be used in relation to childcare policy

expectationlost

jmcc wrote: »

It is funny how it is described as a "sophisticated database". The schema for such a small database, as described by the reports, would be quite simple. Polling companies also try to measure voting intentions and they even record personal identifiers such as IP addresses for online polls and phone numbers for those surveyed.

This is an interesting quote from Simon McGarr in the Irish Times article linked above:
"He says that while the national law – the Data Protection Act of 2018 – allows for the processing of personal data revealing political opinions where it is done in the course of electoral activities, this goes much further than what GDPR allows for.

In that instance, such processing of information is allowed only when “the operation of the democratic system in a member state requires that political parties compile personal data on people’s political opinions.”"

Regards...jmcc

"requires"?

jmcc

Deleted User wrote: »

(JMCC will probably pop in to tell me I know nothing about that either)

No. Just web hosting and the main players in the industry when you described Linode as a small hoster. Most people, including yourself, don't seem to realise that large web hosting operators providing web servers, cloud services and VPSes generally have more websites hosted than appear on their nameservers (approximately 146K gTLD domain names on Linode's main nameservers).

And to quote from FG's beloved Indo:
"All political parties will come before the Oireachtas Housing Committee to answer questions on their own party’s online activities and how they relate to data protection."

And again from a promotion piece for the Varadkar biography:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-suggested-creating-anonymous-accounts-online-to-make-positive-comments-on-news-37275799.html

FG's attempts to hit SF over the Abu system are now going to have its own online activities and those of other parties examined.

Regards...jmcc

Fionn1952

expectationlost wrote: »

Sinn Féin seeks names and addresses of Irish Facebook users https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-seeks-names-and-addresses-of-irish-facebook-users-40332944.html https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/?active_status=all&ad_type=political_and_issue_ads&country=IE&q=sinn%20fein&sort_data[direction]=desc&sort_data[mode]=relevancy_monthly_grouped&search_type=keyword_unordered

This would suggest that this is less dodgy than I had assumed. Seeking names and addresses suggests that it is with consent.

I'll wait and see what my SAR returns before I'm convinced they're in the clear, but 'SF are promoting a survey and asking those who take that survey to provide their personal data' alone certainly isn't as ominous as the newspaper stories have suggested recently.

expectationlost

Fionn1952 wrote: »

This would suggest that this is less dodgy than I had assumed. Seeking names and addresses suggests that it is with consent.

I'll wait and see what my SAR returns before I'm convinced they're in the clear, but 'SF are promoting a survey and asking those who take that survey to provide their personal data' alone certainly isn't as ominous as the newspaper stories have suggested recently.

what way did you think they were doing it?

jmcc

expectationlost wrote: »

"requires"?

Think that it is a quote from the GDPR legislation.

Regards...jmcc

expectationlost

jmcc wrote: »

Think that it is a quote from the GDPR legislation.

Regards...jmcc

it is, its just a strange word 'requires', as if they couldn't operate a democracy without collect this info??

“the operation of the democratic system in a member state requires that political parties compile personal data on people’s political opinions.”"

Fionn1952

expectationlost wrote: »

what way did you think they were doing it?

The insinuations being made were very clearly that the data was being obtained without consent (a core part of most arguments that it breaches GDPR). I assumed that we'd be looking at much more sophisticated data scraping type of activities on that basis. I was particularly curious as to whether they had collected data when I was in the North (and at times a strategic SF voter there) and were utilising this since I've moved to a different jurisdiction to influence their decision on whether I am a potential voter for them here.

If they had the cop on to include a wee check box with a paragraph on how your personal data will be used when requesting the information in that article, they're in the clear and this has been a mountain of epic proportions out of a molehill.

expectationlost

Fionn1952 wrote: »

The insinuations being made were very clearly that the data was being obtained without consent (a core part of most arguments that it breaches GDPR). I assumed that we'd be looking at much more sophisticated data scraping type of activities on that basis. I was particularly curious as to whether they had collected data when I was in the North (and at times a strategic SF voter there) and were utilising this since I've moved to a different jurisdiction to influence their decision on whether I am a potential voter for them here.

If they had the cop on to include a wee check box with a paragraph on how your personal data will be used when requesting the information in that article, they're in the clear and this has been a mountain of epic proportions out of a molehill.

the Indo said they were encouraged to 'elicit people's address' ie: "to call forth or draw out (something, such as information or a response)" they never suggested anything but asking them.

jmcc

expectationlost wrote: »

it is, its just a strange word requires, as if they couldn't operate a democracy without collect this info??

It might apply to a mailing list for election literature.

Article 9 has some interesting exceptions that arguably could apply if data (likelihood to vote SF and prior voting history) was provided to SF by the data subjects. It might be better to get a expert legal opinion though.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

RandomName2 wrote: »

I'm beginning to doubt whether you know what the word 'deflection' means.

I do know what it means. I'm just ignoring most of your posts as irrelevant. (see above).

Regards...jmcc

RandomName2

jmcc wrote: »

I do know what it means. I'm just ignoring most of your posts as irrelevant. (see above).

Regards...jmcc

You describe people bringing up this story as 'fascinating FG deflection'.

That's an interesting way to deflect. You constantly use 'I know you are but what am I' as a rebuttal (I don't know if there's a formal name for the fallacy). It's particularly irksome because to counter it means to engage in the tangent being purposefully introduced to derail discussion.

The ad-hominem is weaker. Anybody who criticizes SF is a member of FG? Or maybe they're a sticky. FFGP/Labour. That'll hedge your bets.

But, let's be honest. We don't see anybody engaging in the same argumentum ad nauseam that you engaged in in the other thread.

SF had a secret database of people's personal details that they wanted to use to obtain power.

Imagine if someone said that every post. It would be remarkably tiresome.

wicklowstevo

jmcc wrote: »

I do know what it means. I'm just ignoring most of your posts as irrelevant(to my limited and very specifically party dictated point of view ). (see above).

Regards...jmcc

feeding these things only wastes everyone's time

regards …….

RandomName2

wicklowstevo wrote: »

feeding these things only wastes everyone's time

regards …….

I don't even care that he is clearly a Sinn Fein member/supporter

It's just the clear hypocrisy that gets on my nerves.

Skimpydoo chastised people for not thanking his post talking about objectivity in analyzing media, and he thanks this fella who spins everything as some mad FG conspiracy with Denis O Brien and General Franco's ghost pulling the strings whenever his party is challenged. He actually has the audacity to claim that challenging his party in any way is a distraction.

While he clearly says that any story run by the Indo/Sindo cannot be trusted (when it is in relation to SF), he has spread that net wider to say that any story reported by any paper that has previously been covered by the Independent cannot be trusted.

Instead of directly addressing the story he criticized the character of the author, writing him off as 'Varadkar's hagiographer', and then said that posters here were not qualified enough to speak on the topic.

Even if there was a wink and nudge acceptance that this is very low on the pyramid of debating there'd be some sort of general understanding, but it's clear that he views himself as a higher form of poster (hence the Scofflaw styled method of signing off). While I had many, many disagreements with Scofflaw I have to admit his posting quality was always top notch. Having someone counter your argument in a clever way is a challenge. Having someone reply with 'all the FG stinky heads with their Indo media empire are just distracting from their Spanish Civil War crimes' is less so.

Brendan Bendar

RandomName2 wrote: »

I don't even care that he is clearly a Sinn Fein member/supporter

It's just the clear hypocrisy that gets on my nerves.

Skimpydoo chastised people for not thanking his post talking about objectivity in analyzing media, and he thanks this fella who spins everything as some mad FG conspiracy with Denis O Brien and General Franco's ghost pulling the strings whenever his party is challenged. He actually has the audacity to claim that challenging his party in any way is a distraction.

While he clearly says that any story run by the Indo/Sindo cannot be trusted (when it is in relation to SF), he has spread that net wider to say that any story reported by any paper that has previously been covered by the Independent cannot be trusted.

Instead of directly addressing the story he criticized the character of the author, writing him off as 'Varadkar's hagiographer', and then said that posters here were not qualified enough to speak on the topic.

Even if there was a wink and nudge acceptance that this is very low on the pyramid of debating there'd be some sort of general understanding, but it's clear that he views himself as a higher form of poster (hence the Scofflaw styled method of signing off). While I had many, many disagreements with Scofflaw I have to admit his posting quality was always top notch. Having someone counter your argument in a clever way is a challenge. Having someone reply with 'all the FG stinky heads with their Indo media empire are just distracting from their Spanish Civil War crimes' is less so.

Scofflaw... that’s the dude who signed off every post....

‘Cordially, or something wasn’t it.

What was it all about I wonder.........

Don’t respond don’t want to go off topic.... just a thought as to why people would carry on with that bulldust.

maccored

markodaly wrote: »

O'Brion is clearly wrong and what he is admitting to is a breach of GDPR rules.

Let us wait and see. Though if it ends up you sre wrong, you’ll admit that? Ha! No hope of that

I've had the pleasure of meeting Scofflaw in person in Dáil Éireann no less a few moons ago
#blatantnamedrop

Brendan Bendar

:D:D:D:D:D:Kicking off up there again..... UI.........

C’mon

jmcc

Getting back on topic, it seems that the FG attempt to deflect from Varadkar being questioned under caution and having his phone seized has backfired and now all parties are being called before the Oireachtas Housing Committee to explain their online activities.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1384498148786249728

On the speculation that I am an SF member or supporter, I'm much, much worse than that. I'm a floating voter who votes.

Regards...jmcc

Brendan Bendar

jmcc wrote: »

Getting back on topic, it seems that the FG attempt to deflect from Varadkar being questioned under caution and having his phone seized has backfired and now all parties are being called before the Oireachtas Housing Committee to explain their online activities.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1384498148786249728

On the speculation that I am an SF member or supporter, I'm much, much worse than that. I'm a floating voter who votes.

Regards...jmcc

Nobody cares what party you are a member of, my friend.

Stop smelling yourself.

I see Philip Ryan has posted a tweet of the type of abuse he gets from shinnerbots on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/philip_ryan/status/1384561913619693570?s=21

It’s mild enough in comparison to being told to go back to sucking Leo’s cock, but it was liked by an identifiable member of SF.

They really aren’t a normal party.

expectationlost

Deleted User wrote: »

I see Philip Ryan has posted a tweet of the type of abuse he gets from shinnerbots on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/philip_ryan/status/1384561913619693570?s=21

It’s mild enough in comparison to being told to go back to sucking Leo’s cock, but it was licked by an identifiable member of SF.

They really aren’t a normal party.

lol

jmcc

expectationlost wrote: »

lol

FG just can't afford good help these days. Either that or it is a bit Freudian.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

FG just can't afford good help these days. Either that or it is a bit Freudian.

Regards...jmcc

Typo. Good on ya though.

While you’re at it there, horse, you wouldn’t mind withdrawing the implication I’m somehow being paid to post here by FG. I’d suggest that would be a considerable waste of money on their behalf.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

I see Philip Ryan has posted a tweet of the type of abuse he gets from shinnerbots on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/philip_ryan/status/1384561913619693570?s=21

It’s mild enough in comparison to being told to go back to sucking Leo’s cock, but it was liked by an identifiable member of SF.

They really aren’t a normal party.

Let me get this straight, because there was a conflict/war SF can never mention a gun again? Even it is a reference to another party shooting itself in the foot?

Is this guy for real?