The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

blanch152

jmcc wrote: »

Perhaps the new owners of IN&M wish it was as successful as Fox News. It was formerly a Murdoch operation and he has made a lot of money from this type of media in broadcast format or print.

The Sindo/Indo have always been relatively large newspapers in a small market. However, their position in that market has made them politically valuable. The "Payback Time" headline is one of the most famous Indo headlines for a reason. It became quite pro-FF after that.

Then, when Denis O'Brien became the largest shareholder after buying about 500 million Euro of shares, it shifted more towards FG.

O'Brien had sold his shares in IN&M at a loss of about 450 million Euro. The new Belgian owners don't seem to know what to do with the newspapers yet. It had to build a new content management system before it installed its paywall.

This SF database story is quite different from the HRC mail server one. (It is closer to that one where someone got the idea that a Russian bank was communicating with a server in one of Trump's properties based on some odd analysis of Internet traffic.) HRC's use of an unauthorised mailserver actually broke US law on handling classified materials but some FBI members did not want to proceed with a prosecution of a presidential candidate.

The SF database story has been pushed by the Sindo/Indo. The fact that all parties now have to appear before the Oireachtas Housing Committee and explain their online activities seems to have been an unintended consequence.

The DPC has not said that SF did anything wrong or commented on SF's reply to her questions.

There is a kind of drip feed from the Sindo/Indo where its articles are being picked up by other newspapers. The odd thing about these articles is that they add very little to the original Sindo/Indo stories and often just rereport stuff published elsewhere so that it becomes a he said, she said chain of stories.

There is now a story being pushed about UK Information Commissioner Office examining how SF stores voter data and naturally, the end paragraphs have quotes from Varadkar claiming that FG decided against a centralised database a few years ago as it would not be GDPR compliant.

Regards...jmcc

The DPC may not have said that SF did anything wrong, but Mary-Lou admitted to two breaches of the Data Protection Act tonight and accepted that the DPC had not yet ruled on others. This is no longer just a Philip Ryan story.

skimpydoo

blanch152 wrote: »

The DPC may not have said that SF did anything wrong, but Mary-Lou admitted to two breaches of the Data Protection Act tonight and accepted that the DPC had not yet ruled on others. This is no longer just a Philip Ryan story.

It's a story that may drag in other parties too.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The DPC may not have said that SF did anything wrong, but Mary-Lou admitted to two breaches of the Data Protection Act tonight and accepted that the DPC had not yet ruled on others. This is no longer just a Philip Ryan story.

And FG had issues too.

jmcc

blanch152 wrote: »

Explosive expose on Prime Time of Sinn Fein's data protection difficulties.

FG not being compliant on cookie/data protection policy and the Facebook pixellation thing?

A legal expert on data protection confirming that Sinn Fein's use of the Electoral Register is in breach of the Electoral Act.

Opinions are just opinions. It is the DPC and the courts who decide matters.

She didn't answer the question about whether the information was ever held outside the EU.

She did. That RTE chap asked if, as some individual had claimed, the data was hosted in Philadelphia and she said no.

Regards...jmcc

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And FG had issues too.

Whatabout FG is the only response?

I really don't care whether FG have problems or not. However, it was notable that ALL other parties confirmed they didn't have a central database with voter profiling on it. The only one who does is SF.

FrancieBrady

skimpydoo wrote: »

It's a story that may drag in other parties too.

Has already, FG having to take action since this story began,

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, FG seem to have fixed 'issues' in the last couple of days too.

GDPR is a nightmare for everyone and a bit ridiculous in many ways. I.E. In order to find out what details someone might have on you, you have to give them your details.

Yep. GDPR is the problem that arises when people with a 16th century appreciation of the Internet try to make rules for it.

Regards...jmcc

blanch152

jmcc wrote: »

FG not being compliant on cookie/data protection policy and the Facebook pixellation thing?

Opinions are just opinions. It is the DPC and the courts who decide matters.

She did. That RTE chap asked if, as some individual had claimed, the data was hosted in Philadelphia and she said no.

Regards...jmcc

She didn't actually say that it wasn't hosted in Philadelphia, she said that the company organising it was legitimate. A nice way of avoiding the question, watch it back carefully. You seem to have bought her dissembling.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Whatabout FG is the only response?

I really don't care whether FG have problems or not. However, it was notable that ALL other parties confirmed they didn't have a central database with voter profiling on it. The only one who does is SF.

As suspected by me from the start, SF may have GDPR issues. Hardly the end of de party when FG have issues too?

Would you agree? Perspective required here blanch. GDPR issues.

blanch152

jmcc wrote: »

Yep. GDPR is the problem that arises when people with a 16th century appreciation of the Internet try to make rules for it.

Regards...jmcc

GDPR is protecting us from political parties secretly gathering data on everyone of us and profiling us for some unknown purpose.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As suspected by me from the start, SF may have GDPR issues. Hardly the end of de party when FG have issues too?

Would you agree? Perspective required here blanch. GDPR issues.

Watch this space Francie, the SF troubles on this will run and run.

And where are all the posters who were telling us there was nothing to see.

jmcc

blanch152 wrote: »

She didn't actually say that it wasn't hosted in Philadelphia, she said that the company organising it was legitimate.

She said it was not hosted in Philadelphia. Linode's HQ is in Philadelphia and the assumption by journalists who didn't know how to check these things other than looking up Wikipedia, was that the data was hosted in Philadelphia.

She stated that the data is hosted in Germany. The IP address data aligns with that. She said it was previously hosted in the UK but moved due to GDPR and Brexit.

Regards...jmcc

skimpydoo

blanch152 wrote: »

Watch this space Francie, the SF troubles on this will run and run.

And where are all the posters who were telling us there was nothing to see.

Like where are all the posters who said there was nothing to see on the Leo thread?

There may well be big issues that SF have to deal with and if they have done anything dodgy I want them to face the full rigours of the law.

jmcc

blanch152 wrote: »

GDPR is protecting us from political parties secretly gathering data on everyone of us and profiling us for some unknown purpose.

Not really. If it was a secret, then how would you know?

GDPR has made the Internet more dangerous. But that is a whole other argument.

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Watch this space Francie, the SF troubles on this will run and run.

And where are all the posters who were telling us there was nothing to see.

If I had a penny for every time you predicted that.

I welcome clarity on this across the political spectrum blanch. I thought it was very good of RTE to mention that FG have issues too.

I look forward to the inquiry into all of them. Not just a SF issue after that Primetime.

jmcc

Now that I think about it, the Primetime section on the party database(s) was unusual. There was no mention of the Labour party website just the FF/FG/SF ones. Seriously though, there was a mention of how parties, TDs and councillors keep databases of their members and constituents. Did I hear that correctly?

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

jmcc wrote: »

Now that I think about it, the Primetime section on the party database(s) was unusual. There was no mention of the Labour party website just the FF/FG/SF ones. Seriously though, there was a mention of how parties, TDs and councillors keep databases of their members and constituents. Did I hear that correctly?

Regards...jmcc

I'll tell you what will happen here, all of a sudden this will become a 'who the hell cares' story...'sure they all do it'.

And that will be the end of it. (Imagine shoot yourself in the foot meme, coz guns etc etc. )

NovemberWren

blanch152 wrote: »

GDPR is protecting us from political parties secretly gathering data on everyone of us and profiling us for some unknown purpose.

Shylock Shinners have been enmassed in profiling for absolutely years.

Their approach to people is:- to understand the 'rules' i.e. the needs by which other people operate and "once the rules are grasped, the anticipation can lead on to "manipulation".

They thrive on the manipulation of fear?
But, do not all the other parties also?

expectationlost

searched this thread for "data protection officer" and "risk assessment"/"Impact Assessment" didnt find them

Ha trained seals clapping for their dear leader after what only but most devout would see as a train wreck of deflection from MLMD. I await the DPC throwing the book at them and others.

smurgen

This Sinn Fein obsession is making lads look unhinged.

https://twitter.com/SeanMoncrieff/status/1385222078496915456?s=19

Good grief. Seems like Sinn Féin is linked to everything in the minds of FG. Not normal! https://twitter.com/SeanMoncrieff/status/1385217808045420550?s=19

touts

Over the years I have criticized Sinn Fein policy on my social media. I am now very concerned that this database has information about me that could be used against me should they come to power.

Accordingly I have sent them a GDPR data request today requesting a copy of all data stored on this database about me. I suggest everyone who is concerned about the information Sinn Fein have gathered about them do likewise. I also copied the office of the Data Protection Commissioner on the request so that Sinn Fein are less likely to ignore my request. Again if you request to see your information on their database I suggest you also copy the Data Protection Commissioner.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/data_protection/rights_under_general_data_protection_regulation.html

touts

touts wrote: »

Over the years I have criticized Sinn Fein policy on my social media. I am now very concerned that this database has information about me that could be used against me should they come to power.

Accordingly I have sent them a GDPR data request today requesting a copy of all data stored on this database about me. I suggest everyone who is concerned about the information Sinn Fein have gathered about them do likewise. I also copied the office of the Data Protection Commissioner on the request so that Sinn Fein are less likely to ignore my request. Again if you request to see your information on their database I suggest you also copy the Data Protection Commissioner.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/data_protection/rights_under_general_data_protection_regulation.html

Well they have a newly appointed data protection officer so no excuses for not processing these requests promptly.

blanch152

touts wrote: »

Over the years I have criticized Sinn Fein policy on my social media. I am now very concerned that this database has information about me that could be used against me should they come to power.

Accordingly I have sent them a GDPR data request today requesting a copy of all data stored on this database about me. I suggest everyone who is concerned about the information Sinn Fein have gathered about them do likewise. I also copied the office of the Data Protection Commissioner on the request so that Sinn Fein are less likely to ignore my request. Again if you request to see your information on their database I suggest you also copy the Data Protection Commissioner.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/data_protection/rights_under_general_data_protection_regulation.html

But, but, but, there is a witchhunt against SF, but, but, but all parties are at it, but, but, but, there is nothing to see, but but but, something something Leo.

jmcc

Just rewatching that Primetime segment.
RTE contacted parties and they confirmed that they have databases on members and constituents. SF confirned it had used the electoral register.

RTE bigging up Labour as a major party. Who'd have thunk it with just six seats?

The cookies section is unintentionally funny. Tracking devices, eh? Mentioned that the Fine Gael website had no option to reject cookies. FG also has an ongoing issue with Facebook pixellation tracking. That's actually a bit more invasive than a simple cookie in that it feeds data back to Facebook. Apparently FG told RTE that it should have made a disclosure about that.

Apparently the DPC has received a load of stuff from SF.

That little chap on the high stool was not able to debate MLMcD. That compliance issue was a non-starter as SF is now, apparently, in compliance. Charlie Flanagan gets a mention. The GDPR thing has them both a bit unsure.

And now the location of the data. And Fran McNulty quotes an inaccurate report that it is was kept in Philadelphia. (Linode's HQ is in Philadelphia but the data was stored in Frankfurt.) And MLMcD replies that no special category data was held in Philadelphia.

The compliance aspect might have been handled better by RTE but they just weren't up to it. It did seem like a "get SF" pile-on attempt that had accidentally shown FG to been up to some iffy stuff.

Regards...jmcc

blanch152

jmcc wrote: »

Just rewatching that Primetime segment.
RTE contacted parties and they confirmed that they have databases on members and constituents. SF confirned it had used the electoral register.

RTE bigging up Labour as a major party. Who'd have thunk it with just six seats?

The cookies section is unintentionally funny. Tracking devices, eh? Mentioned that the Fine Gael website had no option to reject cookies. FG also has an ongoing issue with Facebook pixellation tracking. That's actually a bit more invasive than a simple cookie in that it feeds data back to Facebook. Apparently FG told RTE that it should have made a disclosure about that.

Apparently the DPC has received a load of stuff from SF.

That little chap on the high stool was not able to debate MLMcD. That compliance issue was a non-starter as SF is now, apparently, in compliance. Charlie Flanagan gets a mention. The GDPR thing has them both a bit unsure.

And now the location of the data. And Fran McNulty quotes an inaccurate report that it is was kept in Philadelphia. (Linode's HQ is in Philadelphia but the data was stored in Frankfurt.) And MLMcD replies that no special category data was held in Philadelphia.

The compliance aspect might have been handled better by RTE but they just weren't up to it. It did seem like a "get SF" pile-on attempt that had accidentally shown FG to been up to some iffy stuff.

Regards...jmcc

Mary-Lou believed SF are in compliance but admitted that the DPC might have a different view.

One clear outcome was that the only party profiling voters using the electoral register was Sinn Fein. Yes, the other parties keep records on constituents that contact them. For example, I recently contacted a Green TD by email. My permission was sought in advance for them to to pass the query on. That is the type of thing that SF fail to do - get consent.

expectationlost

I looked on the FG website for the facebook pixel 3 days ago, didn't find it.

Fianna Fail have it as does SF but not Labour

here the program, starts midway through

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/prime-time/SI0000000825?epguid=IH000400726

jmcc

blanch152 wrote: »

Mary-Lou believed SF are in compliance but admitted that the DPC might have a different view.

It is a very effective PR technique of shutting down an interviewer. I think that most politicians who have received any form of media training will have come across it. Fran McNulty should have seen that one coming. The interviewer probably had a whole series of questions ready expecting MLMcD to deny it. (Through the interview, McNulty kept looking at his notes. ) By saying effectively that "that was then and this is now" it short-circuits the interview and makes those other questions redundant.

One clear outcome was that the only party profiling voters using the electoral register was Sinn Fein.

Actually, it doesn't. The use of the word "constituents" is the key. Keeping tabs on members (FG still runs those raffles every year and apparently raised 1 million from sales of fundraising raffle tickets in 2020 so it has quite an active membership) is one thing. Keeping the details of constituents in a db is quite another. Varadkar's comments in that article about FG not having a central database has indvertently landed councillors and TDs in the crap. They also have to comply with data protection legislation. With SF, there's only one database. The DPC now can request details from all politicians (TDs, councillors, senators and prospective candidates) to see that they are in compliance and are handling the data on their constituents properly.

Yes, the other parties keep records on constituents that contact them. For example, I recently contacted a Green TD by email. My permission was sought in advance for them to to pass the query on. That is the type of thing that SF fail to do - get consent.

That's anecdotal evidence based on your own experience. Other parties may also have dealt with similar situations in the same way. Your situation was e-mail related. The SF situation is database related.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

expectationlost wrote: »

I looked on the FG website for the facebook pixel 3 days ago, didn't find it.

Fianna Fail have it as does SF but not Labour

Perhaps FG had it on specific pages and used it to measure conversion?

Regards...jmcc

blanch152

jmcc wrote: »

It is a very effective PR technique of shutting down an interviewer. I think that most politicians who have received any form of media training will have come across it. Fran McNulty should have seen that one coming. The interviewer probably had a whole series of questions ready expecting MLMcD to deny it. (Through the interview, McNulty kept looking at his notes. ) By saying effective that "that was then and this is now" it short-circuits the interview and makes those other questions redundant.

Actually, it doesn't. The use of the word "constituents" is the key. Keeping tabs on members (does FG still run those raffles every year?) is one thing. Keeping the details of constituents in a db is quite another. Varadkar's comments in that article about FG not having a central database has indvertently landed councillors and TDs in the crap. They also have to comply with data protection legislation. With SF, there's only one database. The DPC now can request details from all politicians (TDs, councillors, senators and prospective candidates) to see that they are in compliance and are handling the data on their constituents properly.

That's anecdotal evidence based on your own experience. Other parties may also have dealt with similar situations in the same way. Your situation was e-mail related. The SF situation is database related.

Regards...jmcc

The bit in bold shows up your lack of understanding of the principle of consent in GDPR. People contact a political party and volunteer their information, political party obtains consent and retains details, absolutely no problem that the party retains data on those constituents. I myself have found myself subject to an email following correspondence with a councillor/TD and following requests been removed from databases. That is normal stuff.

Creating a whole new database based on the electoral register and covering every voter in the country is a whole new ballgame from a GDPR perspective. That is where SF have a real problem. That many don't understand the distinction is just a function of their inability to grasp GDPR. After all, only a few hours ago, there were posters claiming expertise and saying SF had no issues, all before Mary-Lou went on TV and admitted to two breaches of GDPR and that the DPC may have the opinion that there are more.