The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The hypocrisy is strong in Irish politics.

Remember...I am one of those who used to vote for one or other of the power swap parties.

I did that with the full knowledge that they had their line-up of crooks, and corruption and were associated with conflict/war and it's aftermath.


Not being a member of any party this is what you do when you vote for any party rep...which is actually all I did. I voted for Matt Carthy this time.

If it's not too personal a question, why have you not yet joined the SF party?
It seems your view of the world is quite well aligned with theirs. Just curious.

Hurrache

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The hypocrisy is strong in Irish politics.

Remember...I am one of those who used to vote for one or other of the power swap parties.

I did that with the full knowledge that they had their line-up of crooks, and corruption and were associated with conflict/war and it's aftermath.


Not being a member of any party this is what you do when you vote for any party rep...which is actually all I did. I voted for Matt Carthy this time.

Hey everybody, look over there!

Anyway, Matt Carthy, a fine upstanding bloke. Remember people, when it's a member of Sinn Fein/IRA that kills someone, it's just a casualty of war. But if it's a member of their own waring party, it's a cold assasination.

https://twitter.com/mattcarthy/status/1386710823687577601

Jinglejangle69

Got it.

https://www.thejournal.ie/jonathan-dowdall-and-father-charged-2898546-Jul2016/

"Each of the three charges against Jonathan Dowdall (39) and Patrick Dowdall (59) are alleged to have taken place at Navan Road, Dublin 7, on 15 January 2015"

https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-jonathan-dowdall-resigns-1937189-Feb2015/


"Date is Feb 13th 2015"

As we can see from the dates he left SF in February 2015 and the offence for which he is in jail was January 2015.

EDIT- I just realised we are talking about the murder instead of the false imprisonment case.

Jesus these lads have so much baggage it would confuse you:)

beakerjoe

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

This is wrong.

I remember when this all popped up years ago SF supporters claiming what you are.

I remember digging up dates and timelines which shows he was still in SF at the time.

I'll do it again later.

I'd wager hes publicly distanced from the party but very much an ally of those in SF.

Finty Lemon

Hurrache wrote: »

Hey everybody, look over there!

Anyway, Matt Carthy, a fine upstanding bloke. Remember people, when it's a member of Sinn Fein/IRA that kills someone, it's just a casualty of war. But if it's a member of their own waring party, it's a cold assasination.

https://twitter.com/mattcarthy/status/1386710823687577601

Ask Matt about the farm in Roscommon. Big story behind that one.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The hypocrisy is strong in Irish politics.

Remember...I am one of those who used to vote for one or other of the power swap parties.

I did that with the full knowledge that they had their line-up of crooks, and corruption and were associated with conflict/war and it's aftermath.

Not being a member of any party this is what you do when you vote for any party rep...which is actually all I did. I voted for Matt Carthy this time.

You use the term “power swap parties” to suggest that these parties swapped power, that it was theirs to swap. It was never theirs to swap. Their power came from their election by a majority of the electorate.

Where did the power of the IRA come from? Who elected them? No one. They acted against the wishes of the majority of Irish people.

FrancieBrady

Hurrache wrote: »

Hey everybody, look over there!

Anyway, Matt Carthy, a fine upstanding bloke. Remember people, when it's a member of Sinn Fein/IRA that kills someone, it's just a casualty of war. But if it's a member of their own waring party, it's a cold assasination.

https://twitter.com/mattcarthy/status/1386710823687577601

Look over there at what?

What was I pointing over there at?

Are you saying that people don't vote for party reps on the full knowledge of what the party they represent have done - good and bad - in the past?

That's how it works in this country. Certainly was when I voted for the power swap parties...I did it knowing that at times some members behaved corruptly and badly.

Fact of life.

skimpydoo

blanch152 wrote: »

You even started the post with "What about". Classic. :D:D

is that the best that you can deflect with? Why is that Senator still a member of FG?

batman75

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The hypocrisy is strong in Irish politics.

Remember...I am one of those who used to vote for one or other of the power swap parties.

I did that with the full knowledge that they had their line-up of crooks, and corruption and were associated with conflict/war and it's aftermath.


Not being a member of any party this is what you do when you vote for any party rep...which is actually all I did. I voted for Matt Carthy this time.

Couldn't you reasonable argue that McGuinness and Adams were hypocrites for backing and participating in a NI assembly at Stormont, under British jurisdiction when in their earlier lives they were trying to bomb and shoot the British out of NI?

Their partaking in the Stormont made a complete mockery of the IRA's murderous campaign.

FrancieBrady

batman75 wrote: »

Couldn't you reasonable argue that McGuinness and Adams were hypocrites for backing and participating in a NI assembly at Stormont, under British jurisdiction when in their earlier lives they were trying to bomb and shoot the British out of NI?

Their partaking in the Stormont made a complete mockery of the IRA's murderous campaign.

Go ahead if you want to.


I never supported the IRA so anything that got the conflict/war stopped was worth a try in my mind.

I think they took massive risks, were incredibly brave and I am glad they were. I will forever be grateful that men and women like them..(on all sides) were where they where at that time.

Hurrache

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go ahead if you want to.


I never supported the IRA so anything that got the conflict/war stopped was worth a try in my mind.

I think they took massive risks, were incredibly brave and I am glad they were. I will forever be grateful that men and women like them..(on all sides) were where they where at that time.

But sure you're not a SF supporter either.

FrancieBrady

Hurrache wrote: »

But sure you're not a SF supporter either.

I voted for them. I 'supported' them in this Dáil. They don't, like every other party I have voted for, own my vote.

I cannot be clearer.

FrancieBrady

Thread is getting to be about me...I'm out until something relevant to the thread comes up.

batman75

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go ahead if you want to.


I never supported the IRA so anything that got the conflict/war stopped was worth a try in my mind.

I think they took massive risks, were incredibly brave and I am glad they were. I will forever be grateful that men and women like them..(on all sides) were where they where at that time.

If you highlight hypocrisy in others be prepared to be challenged. As for the massive risks etc that you say Adams and McGuinness took I call bull**** on that. The IRA were one of the main protagonists in the hell that was the troubles in the North. McGuinness and Adams were key members of the IRA. I would have far more respect for a genuine peacemaker like the late John Hume.
If you support Sinn Fein by logical extension you are supporting a party which honours and deifies dead members of an illegal terrorist organisation whose actions you claim not to support.

markodaly

Have SF released a statement yet?

The optics of this is terrible. The longer they leave it the worse it will get for them.
Full transparency needed if they want to be taken seriously as a party of Government. Otherwise who knows who is working inside SF.

batman75

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I voted for them. I 'supported' them in this Dáil. They don't, like every other party I have voted for, own my vote.

I cannot be clearer.

I don't think I have come across a bigger defender of SF on boards than your good self

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I voted for them. I 'supported' them in this Dáil. They don't, like every other party I have voted for, own my vote.

I cannot be clearer.

You sound like you have make a calculated analysis of positives and negatives for each party at each election. It is commendable in my view that you do not have a fixed position regarding party allegiance.

It is indeed remarkable that you take such time and effort each day to defend the party who just has your most recent vote.

When you voted FG or FF previously, did you exercise the same vigour in their defence? Maybe times were different then?

blanch152

skimpydoo wrote: »

is that the best that you can deflect with? Why is that Senator still a member of FG?

Whatabout FG away, I don't mind, but I will laugh. :D

expectationlost

seamus wrote: »

There are questions to be answered. This isn't a drink-driving charge, or a burglary a decade after leaving the party.

He imprisoned and tortured a man in his home while still a member of the party (though having stepped down from his elected position citing "ill-health").

He then left in June 2015 and seven months later allegedly carried out a gangland murder.

but he hadn't stepped down from his elected position https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-jonathan-dowdall-resigns-1937189-Feb2015/ otherwise he wouldn't been able to resign from it a month later.

Are there any other political parties operating in Europe who have designs on power and have such close links to organised crime?

This, Slab Murphy and his smuggling, Conor Murphy having information on the abduction, torture and murder of an Irish citizen yet doing nothing about it.

On top of that they don’t even recognise the legitimacy of the Irish State, its constitution, and its defence forces.

It’s pretty unprecedented. Democracy is fragile. Never take it for granted.

jh79

Deleted User wrote: »

Are there any other political parties operating in Europe who have designs on power and have such close links to organised crime?

This, Slab Murphy and his smuggling, Conor Murphy having information on the abduction, torture and murder of an Irish citizen yet doing nothing about it.

On top of that they don’t even recognise the legitimacy of the Irish State, its constitution, and its defence forces.

It’s pretty unprecedented. Democracy is fragile. Never take it for granted.

Golden Dawn in Greece are the only ones I can think of.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Are there any other political parties operating in Europe who have designs on power and have such close links to organised crime?

Ah, I wouldn't say this is unique. Look at Berlusconi in Italy. He's spent years in public office despite well documented links to organised crime.

We're somewhat unique in that our organised crime is relatively young and thus less well-embedded. In other countries, some organised crime gangs are several generations old and have recruited or inserted members into the "respectable" top tier of business which has direct access to influence politics.

blanch152

seamus wrote: »

Ah, I wouldn't say this is unique. Look at Berlusconi in Italy. He's spent years in public office despite well documented links to organised crime.

We're somewhat unique in that our organised crime is relatively young and thus less well-embedded. In other countries, some organised crime gangs are several generations old and have recruited or inserted members into the "respectable" top tier of business which has direct access to influence politics.

Our organised crime is only relatively young because it was monolithically controlled by SF/IRA in the 1970s and 1980s when eliminating drug dealers was more about protecting patches and income than it was about saving lives.

The reason why there is so much confusion about which side of the gang wars Sinn Fein are on is because there are so many embedded links to both sides from the legacy of terrorism.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Are there any other political parties operating in Europe who have designs on power and have such close links to organised crime?

This, Slab Murphy and his smuggling, Conor Murphy having information on the abduction, torture and murder of an Irish citizen yet doing nothing about it.

On top of that they don’t even recognise the legitimacy of the Irish State, its constitution, and its defence forces.

It’s pretty unprecedented. Democracy is fragile. Never take it for granted.

Very easy to sit up on the high moral ground when you are not calling corruption, bribery of officials and other nefarious carry on 'organised'.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Our organised crime is only relatively young because it was monolithically controlled by SF/IRA in the 1970s and 1980s when eliminating drug dealers was more about protecting patches and income than it was about saving lives.

The reason why there is so much confusion about which side of the gang wars Sinn Fein are on is because there are so many embedded links to both sides from the legacy of terrorism.

:D:D That's a bit like Oliver J Flanagan's 'there was no sex in Ireland before TV'.

Necro

skimpydoo wrote: »

is that the best that you can deflect with? Why is that Senator still a member of FG?

Final warning, stay on topic and discuss SF or lose posting access here. You can discuss FG in the various threads dedicated to them

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Very easy to sit up on the high moral ground when you are not calling corruption, bribery of officials and other nefarious carry on 'organised'.

We can include them in the long list of SF wrongdoings if you like, but I would like some evidence.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D That's a bit like Oliver J Flanagan's 'there was no sex in Ireland before TV'.

What???? Organised crime has always been there. Previously, it was controlled by various terrorist organisations and the proceeds helped fund the campaigns. More recently, gangs with various remnants from those organisations have sprung up.

What is surprising about that?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

We can include them in the long list of SF wrongdoings if you like, but I would like some evidence.

You might as well blame them for everything blanch...you were more or less there, in your previous post.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

What???? Organised crime has always been there. Previously, it was controlled by various terrorist organisations and the proceeds helped fund the campaigns. More recently, gangs with various remnants from those organisations have sprung up.

What is surprising about that?

This is like the 'terrorist' word itself.

It's 'crime' blanch and there has always been crime. Organised or disorganised.