The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

FrancieBrady

wicklowstevo wrote: »

your not accusing me of deflection are you Francie ?

lol the irony :):)

No, spoofing Stevo, for what ever reason? I wonder why you guys need to keep doing it?

jmcc

RandomName2 wrote: »

[*]SF had no data protection breaches because it was a very simple, non secret-database. All the parties had data protection breaches.

You are intentionally misrepresenting what I posted.
This is what I posted: "The problem is that the Sindo focus on the subject also brought other parties into the frame over breaches of GDPR and data privacy."

I did not say that SF did not have any GDPR issues. It has engaged with the DPC and has addressed the GDPR breaches.

[*]SF is the real media mover and shaker. On the other hand the other parties have got much more control and experience

Again it is a rather shoddy misrepresentation of what I posted. This is what I posted:
"SF is, as a party, a very effective media operator. The other parties are not really in the same league. It has had decades of adverse publicity and dealing with a hostile media where as FF, FG and Labour have been intertwined with the Dublin media."

FF had its own party newsaper for decades ( the Irish Press). The Sindo/Indo in the Dinny O'Brien years had, and still has, an FG bias. IN&M has been anti-SF for years to such an extent that it still employs Eoghan Harris. Every one of his rants is about how SF is bad and to blame for everything bad that happens in the world. It learned how to deal with a hostile media in the North and the UK during the Troubles. FF/FG/Labour had no such hard training and the Dublin media often cheerleads FF/FG/Labour. The quality of SF frontbenchers in dealing with the media shows that most have had media training and they tend to be far more effective than FF/FG/Labour politicians who expect, and often receive, an easy time from interviewers.

[*] The media outlets are totally biased and are headlining an item designed to associate.. sorry I need to collect myself.. associate Sinn Fein with criminality. On the other hand the media outlets will immediately drop this because they aren't particularly partisan and will care about Eoghan Murphy resigning.

This may come as a bit of a shock but even outlets such as the Indo have to try reporting the news from time to time. Eoghan Murphy's resignation knocked most things about SF down the news cycle.

Sure I've always said that SF members seem to feel that holding patently contradictory views makes sense.

And this is more of your misrepresentation. I am not an SF member. I'm a floating voter of the Brethren of the Coast variety.

Regards...jmcc

wicklowstevo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, spoofing Stevo, for what ever reason? I wonder why you guys need to keep doing it?

which guys do you mean ?

the scc not the place for criminals like him and his party team mate the good republican?

#notanormalparty

jimmycrackcorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The other is the Head of the British Armed Forces actually Jimmy. Who shot some people in Derry if you remember and who have locked away the files on bombing two of my local towns and our capital city, in which her forces were allegedly involved.

Mad old world eh?

You're getting frivolous. The Queen isn't like Obama sitting watching a seal team take out Bin Laden as chief of the armed forces. You know this and you still try to make this ridiculous argument.

As for bombings, what bothers me is that I used to go out with a girl from Galliagh in Derry in 1990 and I had a habit of going home in the wee hours of the morning. I crossed Coshquin going back to Donegal only hours before the bomb. I'm not a fan of SF since I realised then they would blow up us Irish Catholics in such a barbaric way to achieve their aims.

Sinn Fein and the IRA were a bunch of absolute lunatics that didn't care about ordinary people back then and are no different now. 30 years since that bombing and we still have savages like Dowdall getting photographed with Mary Lou.

What has changed?

jimmycrackcorm

jmcc wrote: »

SF has been pilloried in the Sindo/Indo over this issue and its basis was an electioneering document for SF canvassers. The actual content and schema of the database were unknown. The problem is that the Sindo focus on the subject also brought other parties into the frame over breaches of GDPR and data privacy. SF spun the issue and engaged with the DPC. There is no word yet on those breaches by other parties.

SF is, as a party, a very effective media operator. The other parties are not really in the same league. It has had decades of adverse publicity and dealing with a hostile media where as FF, FG and Labour have been intertwined with the Dublin media.

The latest attempt to associate SF with criminality has been bumped down the news cycle due to the shock resignation of Eoghan Murphy. The speculation about the byelection caused by this resignation and the upcoming submission of the Varadkar file to the DPP are going to knock SF off the top of the news cycle for a while.

Regards...jmcc

What's happening is Sf is continually being caught out on its pretence. If it was such an effective media operator then it wouldn't be. Because when you base your policies on populism and trying to sell yourself as the answer to all the country's ills then you're going to be easily found out.

The Government parties are getting hit in the media all the time. You only have to look at any Journal article about the government Covid decisions and their comments to see that. Hostile media has been around for a long time.

But anything about SF is a media conspiracy. Especially since they took more significance following the last election. Must be very surprising to SF fans about the whole David Cullinane Up the RA song making the news. Ten years ago it wouldn't but now the chickens are coming home to roost and the underbelly is being exposed.

jmcc

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

What's happening is Sf is continually being caught out on its pretence. If it was such an effective media operator then it wouldn't be. Because when you base your policies on populism and trying to sell yourself as the answer to all the country's ills then you're going to be easily found out.

The allegation that a party is populist is usually made by its opponents when it is getting more votes than them.

The Government parties are getting hit in the media all the time. You only have to look at any Journal article about the government Covid decisions and their comments to see that. Hostile media has been around for a long time.

The Journal seems to be a kind of controlled opposition that relies on user generated content (comments) for traffic.

But anything about SF is a media conspiracy. Especially since they took more significance following the last election. Must be very surprising to SF fans about the whole David Cullinane Up the RA song making the news. Ten years ago it wouldn't but now the chickens are coming home to roost and the underbelly is being exposed.

FFG is really pissed off at the advances that SF has made. It reduced FG to the third party in a 3+n party model by winning more seats in a GE. FF is collapsing in the opinion polls and is around 16-18% at the moment. On that percentage range, it will struggle to maintain seats in a GE whereas SF will, on its current percentages gain seats. I think that Paddy Power has SF at having the most seats after the next GE at evens. What is happening is that politics in Ireland has been realigning along a Left/Right axis over the last few years. The SF result in the 2020 GE accelated this shift.

The Dublin media, as usual, is playing catch-up because it was so addicted to the status quo that the FF/FG losses came as a massive shock. RTE still tries to present the Labour party, which is now just the Irish Times dinner party, as a major player by having Kelly or O'Riordan on panels with SF. The Dublin media has invested decades in the status quo position and presenting SF as being the outsiders. What has happened is that SF has taken over most of the Left and is now moving on the centre area of Irish politics that FF used to dominate. In the last GE, the political landscape shifted and SF became the "official" opposition. The way that the Dublin media is continually hammering away with "get SF" stories is solidifying SF's position. It is also a danger to FF and FG in that it is presenting them as being much the same party in opposition to SF. That could have some rather unexpected effects in the next GE.

Regards...jmcc

jimmycrackcorm

jmcc wrote: »

The allegation that a party is populist is usually made by its opponents when it is getting more votes than them.

Incorrect. SF are absolutely populist. Complain about government housing policy but object at the same time.

For water charges but then seeing what way the wind blows- do the opposite.

jmcc wrote: »

The Journal seems to be a kind of controlled opposition that relies on user generated content (comments) for traffic.

The argument was put that media was hostile to SF only when it's all too clear that this is a clear example of media being hostile to parties other than SF.
Doesn't suit the victim narrative now that SF has to operate in the mainstream/

jmcc wrote: »

FFG is really pissed off at the advances that SF has made. It reduced FG to the third party in a 3+n party model by winning more seats in a GE. FF is collapsing in the opinion polls and is around 16-18% at the moment. On that percentage range, it will struggle to maintain seats in a GE whereas SF will, on its current percentages gain seats. I think that Paddy Power has SF at having the most seats after the next GE at evens. What is happening is that politics in Ireland has been realigning along a Left/Right axis over the last few years. The SF result in the 2020 GE accelated this shift.

Are we going to stick with this FFG acronym? Because if we are, can we also go back to the SFIRA one. I mean SF is literally full of IRA members so it's accurate.

And if you want to stick with FFG then isn't it true that FFG won nearly twice as many seats in the election as SF?

jmcc wrote: »

The Dublin media, as usual, is playing catch-up because it was so addicted to the status quo that the FF/FG losses came as a massive shock. RTE still tries to present the Labour party, which is now just the Irish Times dinner party, as a major player by having Kelly or O'Riordan on panels with SF. The Dublin media has invested decades in the status quo position and presenting SF as being the outsiders. What has happened is that SF has taken over most of the Left and is now moving on the centre area of Irish politics that FF used to dominate. In the last GE, the political landscape shifted and SF became the "official" opposition. The way that the Dublin media is continually hammering away with "get SF" stories is solidifying SF's position. It is also a danger to FF and FG in that it is presenting them as being much the same party in opposition to SF. That could have some rather unexpected effects in the next GE.

Regards...jmcc

Poor SF, always the victim of the Dublin 'Meejia' for pointing out the obvious.
SF has been used to sideline news for so long and can't handle open criticism now.

The Israeli news isn't part of the Dublin media nor is NBC.

All that is happening is SF is now being exposed for what it is. A fruit that looks deliciously juicy for hungry house hunters but with a rotten core.

jmcc

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Incorrect. SF are absolutely populist. Complain about government housing policy but object at the same time.

For water charges but then seeing what way the wind blows- do the opposite.

SF was not a major player during the Water Tax protests. FG, Labour and FF were the major players. However, Labour's vote was very much a borrowed FF vote. There was a soft vote that used to move between FF and Labour depending on the election. It wasn't a dedicated party vote.

The argument was put that media was hostile to SF only when it's all too clear that this is a clear example of media being hostile to parties other than SF.

As I said, the Journal appears to be controlled opposition in that it gives angry people a place to vent and comment about emotive articles.

Are we going to stick with this FFG acronym?

Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Greens. These are the parties in government hence it is FFG. Someone described the Greens as being Fine Gael on bikes which is accurate in some respects.

And if you want to stick with FFG then isn't it true that FFG won nearly twice as many seats in the election as SF?

Well, if you want to consider the FFG government as a single party, it may be.

Poor SF, always the victim of the Dublin 'Meejia' for pointing out the obvious.
SF has been used to sideline news for so long and can't handle open criticism now.

Politics in Ireland has shifted into a Left/Right axis model similar to that of other European democracies. The media had been used to the old 2.5 party model where the government largely changed between FF and FG as the main parties. That changed when the model shifted to a 3+n model with three large parties where no two of the big three had enough seats to form a government. That was uncharted territory for all parties and the certainties under which the Dublin media operated for years.

The Israeli news isn't part of the Dublin media nor is NBC.

That happened 42 years ago. For many voters, it happened before they were born.

All that is happening is SF is now being exposed for what it is. A fruit that looks deliciously juicy for hungry house hunters but with a rotten core.

SF's opinion poll ratings have not drifted since the GE. So is the Dublin media becoming less effective or is it simply that voters support SF more than FF?

Regards...jmcc

maccored

RandomName2 wrote: »

Just going to mention something that I don't think was discussed here, yesterday Sinn Féin's TD Matt Carthy gave the keynote address at a commemoration for Provisional IRA man Séamus McElwain, who killed 10 people, and apparently attempted to murder Arlene Foster's father.

Again, SF having its cake and eating it about IRA connections.

it blows me away that people get surprised that SF have and always will support the IRA's campaign. Like really? This is news to you? When have SF ever said they do not support the armed campaign considering there wasnt much of a choice but for it to happen in the circumstances?

jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

SF's opinion poll ratings have not drifted since the GE.

SF's polls are consistently 3 to 5 points above their GE performance
FG 7 to 10 above
Tells its own story
To say the electorate is split left right now is wishful thinking
Theres too many earning decent money, centre voters to consider red politics that won't vote left
SF are more populist than left anyway
Put them in a government and anything radical would soon be dropped, it would be mainstream abu and then collapse just like Syriza in greece

maccored

maccored wrote: »

it blows me away that people get surprised that SF have and always will support the IRA's campaign. Like really? This is news to you? When have SF ever said they do not support the armed campaign considering there wasnt much of a choice but for it to happen in the circumstances?

The core voters do
The blow ins don't give a sh1te, apart from the few in this forum/soc media, race to the next rise out of one another bubbles.

FrancieBrady

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You're getting frivolous. The Queen isn't like Obama sitting watching a seal team take out Bin Laden as chief of the armed forces. You know this and you still try to make this ridiculous argument.

As for bombings, what bothers me is that I used to go out with a girl from Galliagh in Derry in 1990 and I had a habit of going home in the wee hours of the morning. I crossed Coshquin going back to Donegal only hours before the bomb. I'm not a fan of SF since I realised then they would blow up us Irish Catholics in such a barbaric way to achieve their aims.

Sinn Fein and the IRA were a bunch of absolute lunatics that didn't care about ordinary people back then and are no different now. 30 years since that bombing and we still have savages like Dowdall getting photographed with Mary Lou.

What has changed?

Point is, people were not commenting because McGuinness shook hands with a 'British tourist attraction'.

The queen is the titular head of the forces that had colonised this island and that was why it was a significant moment.

I agree with the rest of what you say - conflict/war is a terrible thing and should never happen. All sides have a tally of innocents to their name.

Brendan Bendar

Marine Layer wrote: »

SF's polls are consistently 3 to 5 points above their GE performance
FG 7 to 10 above
Tells its own story
To say the electorate is split left right now is wishful thinking
Theres too many earning decent money, centre voters to consider red politics that won't vote left
SF are more populist than left anyway
Put them in a government and anything radical would soon be dropped, it would be mainstream abu and then collapse just like Syriza in greece

Correct and right, all the populist bulldust would be ‘dhropped’ and full focus would be on UI.

A lot of light being shone into dark corners now, think Matt Carty statements, Cullinane ‘up the Ra’ ,Stanno’s little outburst, the current murder ‘thrial’, the ‘orchestra’ at the RDS.....the strange movement of cash and the resignations, the bould Conor staying schtumm........


I hear the squawking of chickens lads............



COMING HOME TO ROOST!!

jmcc

Marine Layer wrote: »

SF's polls are consistently 3 to 5 points above their GE performance
FG 7 to 10 above
Tells its own story
To say the electorate is split left right now is wishful thinking

The opinion polls since March 2020 have been highly abnormal. This is due to the methodology being used. Previously, there were phone, online and face to face polling and they acted as a kind of sanity check. Some trends would appear with phone and online polling but not with face to face polling. The FF % was one of the. As much of the FF's support is concentrated in older demographics, the polls using online/phone polling tend to show FF %s as being lower. This is typical with RedC. When B&A used face to face polling in August/September 2020, FF's % was shown around 16 to 18%. The opinion polls since then have always, excluding the various pollster adjustments, resembled each other and have had FF at a lower % than it is in reality. FG's % is also abnormally high. Voting intentions generally crystalise in the weeks before an election so FG can expect to lose at least 5%. The stability of SF should worry FF and FG as it indicates dedicated support whereas FF and FG are basically fishing in the same pool for votes.

The drift towards a Left/Right axis has been underway for years in Irish politics but the 2020 result for SF accelerated it somewhat.

Theres too many earning decent money, centre voters to consider red politics that won't vote left
SF are more populist than left anyway

It is not quite the old Capitalist versus Communist axis but more a conservative versus social democrat/liberal axis.

Regards...jmcc

TheCitizen

RandomName2 wrote: »

I wouldn't be happy with a unionist party being in the Dail either.

And if a Unionist politician attended the funeral of a UVF member people would call them out for it, and rightly so.

Scumbags will always be able to find reasons to justify their behavior. The regency murder was a reprisal for the assassination of the Real IRA leader. This sort of slimey tit-for-tat is nothing new for republican criminals. The UVF I'm sure peddle some ****e about protecting their people or homeland, but thankfully they are only Northern Ireland's burden, for the moment at least.

I thought the Regency attacks was the Hutch gang attacking the Kinahan gang in reprisal for the Kinahans murdering one of theirs? Amazing how everything on this thread morphs into it was Sinn Fein that did it. The conjecture on here if anything backfires on the fans of their political opponents on here.

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

SF's polls are consistently 3 to 5 points above their GE performance
FG 7 to 10 above

FG's performance in the polls tumbled the second the last election was called, from 28% in a Christmas Eve 2019 Ireland Thinks poll to 20% on the 14th of January from which it never recovered.
SF's went the other way, from 15% to 19% on the 14th Jan and rose steadily through the remaining polls to finish on 24%.

RandomName2

maccored wrote: »

it blows me away that people get surprised that SF have and always will support the IRA's campaign. Like really? This is news to you? When have SF ever said they do not support the armed campaign considering there wasnt much of a choice but for it to happen in the circumstances?

Oh sure, I'm just pointing out that they often say the opposite of this and get angry if connections with the IRA are pointed out. I suppose being composed of so many informers for so long has produced a lot of double think.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Amazing how everything on this thread morphs into it was Sinn Fein that did it. The conjecture on here if anything backfires on the fans of their political opponents on here.

This is low quality bait, Polyphemus.

Marco23d

TheCitizen wrote: »

I thought the Regency attacks was the Hutch gang attacking the Kinahan gang in reprisal for the Kinahans murdering one of theirs? Amazing how everything on this thread morphs into it was Sinn Fein that did it. The conjecture on here if anything backfires on the fans of their political opponents on here.

I said the exact same thing earlier, apparently this is "old news".

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG's performance in the polls tumbled the second the last election was called, from 28% in a Christmas Eve 2019 Ireland Thinks poll to 20% on the 14th of January from which it never recovered.
SF's went the other way, from 15% to 19% on the 14th Jan and rose steadily through the remaining polls to finish on 24%.

What will it take for them to convince former voters like yourself to return?

jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

It is not quite the old Capitalist versus Communist axis but more a conservative versus social democrat/liberal axis.

Social Democrats and Labour are centre parties
They are nowhere near communism
If you yearn for communism, like 1980's SF, I'm sure someone in Cuba will hire you, plenty good connections

TheCitizen

RandomName2 wrote: »

This is low quality bait, Polyphemus.

Amazing, the irony.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG's performance in the polls tumbled the second the last election was called, from 28% in a Christmas Eve 2019 Ireland Thinks poll to 20% on the 14th of January from which it never recovered.
SF's went the other way, from 15% to 19% on the 14th Jan and rose steadily through the remaining polls to finish on 24%.

Ah yeah, but as you know that was a large chunk of protest vote
Is there a new protest vote coming? No real sign of it
Protest pool has been drained
People by and large don't switch from FG to SF, so where's the home for the 10% extra answering polls in the last year saying FG if they get fed up of that option
Not anywhere SF friendly or left wing anyway
SF's problem is a lack of enough dancing partners and mis steps like the Dowdall crime gang connection

TheCitizen

Marco23d wrote: »

I said the exact same thing earlier, apparently this is "old news".

What is old news exactly? I guess if they keep to a particular narrative of conjecture then they might actually convince themselves if it after a while. Not sure it’s having an effect on the electorate in the real world though, might even be backfiring judging by recent trends in elections and polls.

TheCitizen

Marine Layer wrote: »

Ah yeah, but as you know that was a large chunk of protest vote
Is there a new protest vote coming? No real sign of it
Protest pool has been drained
People by and large don't switch from FG to SF, so where's the home for the 10% extra answering polls in the last year saying FG if they get fed up of that option
Not anywhere SF friendly or left wing anyway
SF's problem is a lack of enough dancing partners and mis steps like the Dowdall crime gang connection

In your opinion, you might add.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

In your opinion, you might add.

Well it is the opinion forum...
I mean Francie is basing his tenet on one election result
If he had done that in 2019,SF would have lost a lot of their seats in feb 2020 based on the council and Euro's of 2019,less than a year earlier to say polls are wrong
It simply is not that simple
SF has a newly minted millstone now it needs to quickly resolve and that is a connection with nasty organised crime gangs

bobbysands81

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Correct and right, all the populist bulldust would be ‘dhropped’ and full focus would be on UI.

A lot of light being shone into dark corners now, think Matt Carty statements, Cullinane ‘up the Ra’ ,Stanno’s little outburst, the current murder ‘thrial’, the ‘orchestra’ at the RDS.....the strange movement of cash and the resignations, the bould Conor staying schtumm........


I hear the squawking of chickens lads............



COMING HOME TO ROOST!!

What exactly is your point here? This sounds like some incoherent rambling that would be put on the front page of the Sunday Independent.

Are you Brendan O’Connor?

TheCitizen

Marine Layer wrote: »

Well it is the opinion forum...
I mean Francie is basing his tenet on one election result
If he had done that in 2019,SF would have lost a lot of their seats in feb 2020 based on the council and Euro's of 2019,less than a year earlier to say polls are wrong
It simply is not that simple
SF has a newly minted millstone now it needs to quickly resolve and that is a connection with nasty organised crime gangs

Results vary from election to election, overall though the electoral base of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael combined has contracted alarmingly over several decades. That’s not a flash in the pan. They have lost so much ground that they eventually did the unthinkable and got into bed to maintain power.

As for the newly minted millstone around SF, yes they’ve got to be far more careful about vetting who they are putting forward for council elections. They have cut ties with the character in question from a couple of years back and I’m not sure this story is causing the same ructions with the electorate as it is with a certain cohort on here who’ll never vote SF anyway because tribal ties to their party/parties of choice.

SF though for their part need to be more circumspect about picking representatives, they need more because they could have won more seats if they had more candidates in the last election but they’ve got to be very wary about who comes making themselves available to represent them.

They eventually got rid of that Paddy Hoolihan guy recently I think, but were very slow about it and gave him more chances to keep putting his foot in it. On the other hand when they do get rid of poor candidates they get accused of bullying. They have opportunity to grow more but finding and choosing decent candidates will be the challenging part.

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Point is, people were not commenting because McGuinness shook hands with a 'British tourist attraction'.

The queen is the titular head of the forces that had colonised this island and that was why it was a significant moment.

I agree with the rest of what you say - conflict/war is a terrible thing and should never happen. All sides have a tally of innocents to their name.

But jimmycrackcorn is not wrong when he says "Sinn Fein and the IRA were a bunch of absolute lunatics that didn't care about ordinary people".

Mayn of the PIRAs victims were "their own people" who either got out of line or were friendly with the security forces, so they either got their knee caps blown off or a bullet in the head.

He's dead right.

Agree on SF candidate picking
I don't agree theres much change in FG's 30 year vote percentage albeit the lowest it ever was in GE 20
You need to be cognisant of where voters movr idrologically
Centre floating as opposedto centre solid have been going independent lately
Once in the 90s they went labour
A lot of that centre vote depends on the pocket
The picket is always threatened by the left
Not necessarily by SF in that respect as populism tapers their leftism
Much to the disdain probably of a hard core cuba ussr venuezela fan club who lets face it are a minority of SF's base

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

What will it take for them to convince former voters like yourself to return?

To carry out what Enda falsely promised in 2011.