The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

jimmycrackcorm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1387460256410841089

It's interesting that they're kicking out Martina Anderson. It would be akin to removing Dessie Ellis down here.

costacorta

skimpydoo wrote: »

I am a floating voter who voted for SF for the first time in the last election. I stated yesterday why I voted SF. If SF ever get in to government FF and FG will dramatically have to change what they have done in the past. Can a leopard change their spots? If SF get in government and are a disaster it will take a hell of a lot to get me to vote for them again.

We will never know how SF will do until they are in government, we have given FF and FG so many chances so why can't we give SF just one and see how it goes? I also live in the constituency of Eoghan Murphy and I am certain that SF will probably have Lynn Boylan running to get in. Yesterday it was noted on here that she is a cousin of Daniel Kinahan, well Gay and the late Jim Mitchell were cousins of The Penguin and they were not mired in controversy. The fact that the Kinahan and Hutch's are mentioned shows how scared the old guard cartel of FF and FG are off SF.

YAWN YAWN
Another first time SF voter ??
Never seen so many first time SF voters turn up on a SF thread defending them day in day out . I wonder is there any real long term SF voters that post on here as would love to hear their views .

Dyr

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1387460256410841089

Anderson was always a dose, I guess she thought her old guard status would protect her from the balls that shes made of Derry, no such sentimentality in modern SF.

maccored

costacorta wrote: »

YAWN YAWN
Another first time SF voter ??
Never seen so many first time SF voters turn up on a SF thread defending them day in day out . I wonder is there any real long term SF voters that post on here as would love to hear their views .

on what precisely?

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

You really need to rethink your expectations of what will be horse traded in a coalition with SF
There is no Narnia
I've no problem with them in government if thats whats negotiated
What is certain is SF will then experience what its like to disapoint,to be realistic in other words
Their supporters will also feel the downer

We're all pragmatists.
It's why I don't read the manifesto's.
Nobody delivers all they promise. But if they deliver most of it, they will establish themselves as a force in Irish politics and by forcing FF and FG to either merge or one of them to fall on their swords the cozy power share will be over. Ushering in a fully matured democracy. In many ways we are still a young country.

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's interesting that they're kicking out Martina Anderson. It would be akin to removing Dessie Ellis down here.

Had a similar skill set as well if I remember correctly. Or maybe Dessie made them and Martina left them outside pubs etc.

maccored

Deleted User wrote: »

Had a similar skill set as well if I remember correctly. Or maybe Dessie made them and Martina left them outside pubs etc.

she's a former provo - big deal.

SafeSurfer

costacorta wrote: »

YAWN YAWN
Another first time SF voter ??
Never seen so many first time SF voters turn up on a SF thread defending them day in day out . I wonder is there any real long term SF voters that post on here as would love to hear their views .

Amazing that there are posters who spend a significant portion of their day defending SF on Boards who claim to be first time SF voters.
Are there any actual SF members in this thread?

Had they access to Abu?

maccored

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Amazing that there are posters who spend a significant portion of their day defending SF on Boards who claim to be first time SF voters.
Are there any actual SF members in this thread?

Had they access to Abu?

if any did, I wonder why you reckon they'd be bothered telling you?

bobbysands81

Marine Layer wrote: »

I don't agree theres much change in FG's 30 year vote percentage albeit the lowest it ever was in GE 20

Fine Gael share of vote in elections over last 30 years:

1992 - 24.5%
1997 - 27.5%
2002 - 22.5%
2007 - 27.3%
2011 - 36.1%
2016 - 25.5%
2020 - 20.9%

Looks like the FG vote has risen considerably during the last 30 years and has plummeted 42% in the last ten years. I see them holding steady at least if a GE is called and possibly growing their vote. Though I suppose a rebranded FF may have a bit of a bounce at the hands of FG and SF.

I think FG have done a great job of rebranding themselves over the last 20 years. They are a much younger, more vibrant version of Fianna Fáil (who I think are in serious trouble).

costacorta

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Had a similar skill set as well if I remember correctly. Or maybe Dessie made them and Martina left them outside pubs etc.

That was witty , and probably true as well.

jmcc

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/data-protection-commissioner-makes-first-public-comments-sincesinn-fein-secret-abu-database-40365649.html

A very interesting article this. A couple of points of note. This is particularly damning:

"Appearing at an Oireachtas Justice Committee hearing, Ms Dixon was asked by Fine Gael Senator Barry Ward about the rules regarding a political party setting up a national database on voters and entering information on perceived voting intentions.

Ms Dixon said “in the hypothetical scenario” presented by Mr Ward it is “difficult to imagine what legal basis any data controller would have to create a centralised database from varied sources without the knowledge of data subjects”."

The whataboutery merchants peddling the all parties do it line would do well to take careful note of this bit:

"Ms Dixon said there was a ruling from the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in 2016, in which the Judge Advocate General said that “it's these large data sets that are of primary importance, and the primary purpose of data protection law. It’s the reason why it's of primordial importance.”"

Essentially the ECJ doesn't see a canvasser with a tattered electoral register and a pencil as a real issue, it is the compilation of a large database with search functions and the information accessible to all SF members as confirmed by one on here that will create a huge issue.

Though, like the poor fool in Dumb and Dumber who believed there is a chance, there is some hope for the SF believers:

"It's theoretically possible to legitimise it".

Then again, she can't say otherwise as that would mean condemning SF before an investigation. The rest of us can hold a sensible opinion of where this is going, and that is not to a good place for SF.

It is a rather balanced piece. This is where the FG senator was put back in his box by the DPC:

"“Secondly that provision doesn't eliminate, as you said, the obligation on any controller to ensure transparency in relation to data subjects, and to ensure that those data subjects are going to be able to exercise all rights that may be relevant to them under the GDPR.
“So it's not possible to give a definitive answer, because the devil is going to be in the detail of how it's done. It's theoretically possible to legitimise it -- equally it's possible that it would fail in actual implementation on every single one of the principles.

“And so it would be important to step through it in the actual detail, in order to answer the question definitively.”"

It is what has been said repeatedly on the GDPR thread by people who understand GDPR and data protection issues.

The problem is that the "get SF" story being pushed by Ryan is not supported by this simple fact: the public does not know what is in the SF database or its structure and, without that information, it is simply speculation.

Regards...jmcc

MadYaker

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We're all pragmatists.
It's why I don't read the manifesto's.
Nobody delivers all they promise. But if they deliver most of it, they will establish themselves as a force in Irish politics and by forcing FF and FG to either merge or one of them to fall on their swords the cozy power share will be over. Ushering in a fully matured democracy. In many ways we are still a young country.

Why would FG and FF merge when they can just form a coalition whenever it suits them to do so?

SF are not a fully matured political party. They didn't run enough candidates in the last election to actually give them a shot at being in government. One or twice a year like clockwork stories like this pop up and for a lot of people (not you obviously) the fact that members of organised crime can not only become a member of the party, but actually run in an election and hold an elected position, is enough to maintain an odour of illegitimacy around them. They have lot of maturing and opening up to do before they can be a real political force here. I think it'll take another generation. There needs to be more clean air between the modern identity SF are trying so hard to wear and their past.

SafeSurfer

maccored wrote: »

if any did, I wonder why you reckon they'd be bothered telling you?

Well for one thing they could end the speculation whether some or all members have access to Abu.

Also why would anyone not say they were a member, although it seems many members here strenuously deny it.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We're all pragmatists.
It's why I don't read the manifesto's.
Nobody delivers all they promise. But if they deliver most of it, they will establish themselves as a force in Irish politics and by forcing FF and FG to either merge or one of them to fall on their swords the cozy power share will be over. Ushering in a fully matured democracy. In many ways we are still a young country.

Most of it...
Sorry taking a while to type
Isn't easy when laughing
There'll be no most of anything in a comittee of 3 and a half million or more voters

FrancieBrady

MadYaker wrote: »

Why would FG and FF merge when they can just form a coalition whenever it suits them to do so?

SF are not a fully matured political party. They didn't run enough candidates in the last election to actually give them a shot at being in government. One or twice a year like clockwork stories like this pop up and for a lot of people (not you obviously) the fact that members of organised crime can not only become a member of the party, but actually run in an election and hold an elected position, is enough to maintain an odour of illegitimacy around them. They have lot of maturing and opening up to do before they can be a real political force here. I think it'll take another generation. There needs to be more clean air between the modern identity SF are trying so hard to wear and their past.

I don't think the public will buy the 'vote for one, get the other' two step any longer to be honest. They'll give their verdict on how they were duped with the 'we will never go into a coalition - it would be like putting John Delaney back in charge' lies they were told last time at the next election.

I think the end of the power share and one of the two - FF or FG will force all political parties to mature tbh.
An end to the childish nod and wink political culture.

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

Most of it...
Sorry taking a while to type
Isn't easy when laughing
There'll be no most of anything in a comittee of 3 and a half million or more voters

Go again...not sure what your point is.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go again...not sure what your point is.

You always know what my point is,you only let on otherwise
I'm not here to be risen
Just to give an opinion

MadYaker

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think the public will buy the 'vote for one, get the other' two step any longer to be honest. They'll give their verdict on how they were duped with the 'we will never go into a coalition - it would be like putting John Delaney back in charge' lies they were told last time at the next election.

I think the end of the power share and one of the two - FF or FG will force all political parties to mature tbh.
An end to the childish nod and wink political culture.

I haven't heard anyone saying they felt duped by the FG/FF coalition. It's not vote for one get the other, it's vote for one and get 2 that are basically the same. But it's not in anyone's interests (other than SF) for FF and FG to merge, much more pragmatic to remain separate and form a coalition if that's how the votes fall.

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

You always know what my point is,you only let on otherwise
I'm not here to be risen
Just to give an opinion

FFS this again. (You reading my mind)


I have no idea what you mean by a committee of 3 and half million voters. If you don't want to explain it, it can't have been much of a point.

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG's performance in the polls tumbled the second the last election was called, from 28% in a Christmas Eve 2019 Ireland Thinks poll to 20% on the 14th of January from which it never recovered.
SF's went the other way, from 15% to 19% on the 14th Jan and rose steadily through the remaining polls to finish on 24%.

I think that FG was artificially high in the polls before Christmas 2019. The problem was that Varadkar left the neo-Unionist Charlie Flanagan and his gang off on the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration venture. That lost FG support and when Flanagan wasn't pipe down (a definite leadership failure by Varadkar), SF managed to use the FG Black and Tans/RIC commemoration as an election tool. It even used the music from "Come out, ye Black and Tans" for its election broadcasts. FF also had a leadership failure that benefited SF. Martin is very much an FG wannabe rather than a genuine FFer. A real FF leader would not have missed such an open goal by FG. Instead, he sided with his pals in FG. SF capitalised on the leadership failure by FG and FF over the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration and managed to beat FG into third place and equalled the number of seats won by FF. In doing so, SF forced FF and FG into the previously unthinkable situation of being in a coalition. What SF seems to be doing now is reinforcing the idea in the minds of the electorate that there is really no difference between FF and FG. There are signs in the opinion polls that it is beginning to work. What had previously been a soft FF/Labour floating vote that oscillated between the two parties is now bouncing around between FF and FG.

Regards...jmcc

SafeSurfer

Ahsurethatsit wrote: »

Well i dont know or care so will not be actively looking to find out.

You would have to ask soneone who is a member but wont say. That will be impossible unless you have evidence they are a member

Are you what is described as an “activist”?

Ted_YNWA

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The Citizen and Francie if ye want to start a new thread praising Sinn Fein and repeatedly answering each other’s posts maybe you could do that there instead of here.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Amazing that there are posters who spend a significant portion of their day defending SF on Boards who claim to be first time SF voters.
Are there any actual SF members in this thread?

Had they access to Abu?

Mod

It is a shocker alright that people are discussing Sinn Féin in a Sinn Féin thread.

If you don't like it, you can avoid the thread.

FrancieBrady

jmcc wrote: »

I think that FG was artificially high in the polls before Christmas 2019. The problem was that Varadkar left the neo-Unionist Charlie Flanagan and his gang off on the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration venture. That lost FG support and when Flanagan wasn't pipe down (a definite leadership failure by Varadkar), SF managed to use the FG Black and Tans/RIC commemoration as an election tool. It even used the music from "Come out, ye Black and Tans" for its election broadcasts. FF also had a leadership failure that benefited SF. Martin is very much an FG wannabe rather than a genuine FFer. A real FF leader would not have missed such an open goal by FG. Instead, he sided with his pals in FG. SF capitalised on the leadership failure by FG and FF over the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration and managed to beat FG into third place and equalled the number of seats won by FF. In doing so, SF forced FF and FG into the previously unthinkable situation of being in a coalition. What SF seems to be doing now is reinforcing the idea in the minds of the electorate that there is really no difference between FF and FG. There are signs in the opinion polls that it is beginning to work. What had previously been a soft FF/Labour floating vote that oscillated between the two parties is now bouncing around between FF and FG.

Regards...jmcc

Imagine a campaign and the question 'will you go into coalition with x and y'.

Very tricky one for all of them to navigate. FG have managed to not take the blame for the bad stuff so far and Varadkar is still riding on the glow of the job he did during the pandemic beginning. That will fade very quickly as his, i.e. the FG Finance Minister has to pay for it all and Leo is the Taoiseach (if he gets off in the criminal investigation)

That will play into Shinner hands, (any opposition in actual fact) they are good at calling out austerity measures.

IMO by the end of a full term, there will be a lot of 'floating votes' looking for a home. Polls at the moment could drastically change.

jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

I think that FG was artificially high in the polls before Christmas 2019. The problem was that Varadkar left the neo-Unionist Charlie Flanagan and his gang off on the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration venture. That lost FG support and when Flanagan wasn't pipe down (a definite leadership failure by Varadkar), SF managed to use the FG Black and Tans/RIC commemoration as an election tool. It even used the music from "Come out, ye Black and Tans" for its election broadcasts. FF also had a leadership failure that benefited SF. Martin is very much an FG wannabe rather than a genuine FFer. A real FF leader would not have missed such an open goal by FG. Instead, he sided with his pals in FG. SF capitalised on the leadership failure by FG and FF over the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration and managed to beat FG into third place and equalled the number of seats won by FF. In doing so, SF forced FF and FG into the previously unthinkable situation of being in a coalition. What SF seems to be doing now is reinforcing the idea in the minds of the electorate that there is really no difference between FF and FG. There are signs in the opinion polls that it is beginning to work. What had previously been a soft FF/Labour floating vote that oscillated between the two parties is now bouncing around between FF and FG.

Regards...jmcc

There’s a FG thread somewhere to discuss FG. This is about SF. The ones in the news for the past few days because a former member is now up for murder, and a former terrorist is now being asked to consider her position as an MLA.

Those guys and gals.

Loafing Oaf

jmcc wrote: »

I think that FG was artificially high in the polls before Christmas 2019. The problem was that Varadkar left the neo-Unionist Charlie Flanagan and his gang off on the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration venture. That lost FG support and when Flanagan wasn't pipe down (a definite leadership failure by Varadkar), SF managed to use the FG Black and Tans/RIC commemoration as an election tool. It even used the music from "Come out, ye Black and Tans" for its election broadcasts. FF also had a leadership failure that benefited SF. Martin is very much an FG wannabe rather than a genuine FFer. A real FF leader would not have missed such an open goal by FG. Instead, he sided with his pals in FG. SF capitalised on the leadership failure by FG and FF over the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration and managed to beat FG into third place and equalled the number of seats won by FF. In doing so, SF forced FF and FG into the previously unthinkable situation of being in a coalition. What SF seems to be doing now is reinforcing the idea in the minds of the electorate that there is really no difference between FF and FG. There are signs in the opinion polls that it is beginning to work. What had previously been a soft FF/Labour floating vote that oscillated between the two parties is now bouncing around between FF and FG.

Regards...jmcc

I think you're way overstating the importance of the Black & Tan thing. How many people who felt very strongly about that were likely to be voting FG in the first place, especially now SF are an acceptable choice for 'soft republicans'? Tbh I don't think FG's fall in vote share takes much explaining; they had been in power for a decade and were historically the second party. The big question about the last election is why so many people who, according to the opinion polls, had been intending to vote FF and make them clearly the largest party switched to FF at the last minute.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think the public will buy the 'vote for one, get the other' two step any longer to be honest. They'll give their verdict on how they were duped with the 'we will never go into a coalition - it would be like putting John Delaney back in charge' lies they were told last time at the next election.

I think the end of the power share and one of the two - FF or FG will force all political parties to mature tbh.
An end to the childish nod and wink political culture.

A lot of posts ‘telling lies’ on this thread, it has to be said.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

There’s a FG thread somewhere to discuss FG. This is about SF. The ones in the news for the past few days because a former member is now up for murder, and a former terrorist is now being asked to consider her position as an MLA.

Those guys and gals.

Nobody is stopping you giving your views on that.
There is a discussion on government and how it was formed and how the next one may be formed with reference to SF.

I don't think that is 'diverting the thread'. Maybe a mod could comment.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FFS this again. (You reading my mind)


I have no idea what you mean by a committee of 3 and half million voters. If you don't want to explain it, it can't have been much of a point.

Really?
The electorate is a 3 and a half million member committee most of whose wishes never come true when tgeir party is in coalition
It was ever thus and forever will be in all democracies
Anyone peddling the opposite like you were there is spreading false promises
It really has been that simple

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think the public will buy the 'vote for one, get the other' two step any longer to be honest. They'll give their verdict on how they were duped with the 'we will never go into a coalition - it would be like putting John Delaney back in charge' lies they were told last time at the next election.

I think the end of the power share and one of the two - FF or FG will force all political parties to mature tbh.
An end to the childish nod and wink political culture.

From what I remember FG were open to the idea of governing with FF prior to the 2020 GE.

Ireland since independence hasn’t done too badly. We came through a war of independence, a bitter civil war and the peaceful transfer of power between the 2 main parties who had fought the civil wars just 10 years before.

You talk about political maturity?

Compare that with the situation in the north where Sinn Fein has been in government and the executive has been closed for prolonged periods, walkouts, tantrums, crises, having to be spoon fed by other governments and only made to see sense by outside intervention.

Is that the type of political maturity you want in the south?

Sinn Fein have, in my opinion, made politics more childish, less mature.