The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

a very cool kid

So how about the disappeared then? All.military targets I suppose?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you are in fact saying that anyone who lays out the cause and the results of a military action...is justifying that action. A lot of people in the frame for justifying the Nazi's so.
How astoundingly ridiculous.

As I said, you are not a Peter Taylor or a Dairmad Ferriter, you are a SF supporter on an internet forum. Very very different things.

Just own your remarks Francie.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

Yes you are, that is why you brought her up in the first place, to get some virtual backslaps and points, for 'Showing us!'

By all means, keep using her, a victim of sexual assault, by the PIRA elite, as some trump card, but it just chips away at any lofty moral high ground you think you have. It is nauseating behaviour.

You can keep on saying that -mark tbh, it doesn't make it true, and I couldn't give a shyte regardless. But by all means, report my post to a mod if you feel I am doing what you're accusing me of.

Can you please deal with the facts here.

Was Mairia Cahill a member of the same dissident terrorist organisation, responsible for the Omagh bombing, and various other atrocities?

Was the same Mairia Cahill made a senator to our upper house, fully endorsed by FFG/Lab, despite knowing of her terrorist links?

This isn't going to be your Frances Fitzgerald moment .2 is it ?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

As I said, you are not a Peter Taylor or a Dairmad Ferriter, you are a SF supporter on an internet forum. Very very different things.

Just own your remarks Francie.

I do own them.

I have never condoned any of the violence, either by being silent (like partitionists) or by supporting.

I voted for SF, just like I have voted for almost all parties that stand in my constituency at one time or another.

Unlike some, I am not hidebound to any particular party.

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

Yes you are, that is why you brought her up in the first place, to get some virtual backslaps and points, for 'Showing us!'

By all means, keep using her, a victim of sexual assault, by the PIRA elite, as some trump card, but it just chips away at any lofty moral high ground you think you have. It is nauseating behaviour.





Still getting abuse for SF and their chums it seems.

It makes you wonder what kind of individuals do this. The woman has suffered an awful lot in her life. The people around her in the republican movement, in Sinn Fein and the IRA, let her down badly, yet their supporters keep abusing her on social media platforms like this.

She has given a very clear account of her short time with dissident republicans - an entirely understandable reaction to her abusive treatment by the likes of Gerry Adams - and expressed real regret at her actions. Yet, we still see disgusting posts like McMurphys all over different forms of social media.

It is not like she is alone either. They have also questioned the veracity of people like Paudie McMahon who also suffered sexual abuse as children while part of the Sinn Fein and IRA community. Nauseating isn't strong enough to describe the behaviour of these posters on social media.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

The end justifies the means = equivocation of PIRA actions and bombs.

Or indeed any of the neo conservative wars you supported. Not that the ends were justified anyway.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Or indeed any of the neo conservative wars you supported. Not that the ends were justified anyway.

And what wars do I support.... go on, which ones? :pac:

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It makes you wonder what kind of individuals do this. The woman has suffered an awful lot in her life. The people around her in the republican movement, in Sinn Fein and the IRA, let her down badly, yet their supporters keep abusing her on social media platforms like this.

This is in spite of the actual written evidence that people in SF tried to help her.

She has given a very clear account of her short time with dissident republicans - an entirely understandable reaction to her abusive treatment by the likes of Gerry Adams - and expressed real regret at her actions. Yet, we still see disgusting posts like McMurphys all over different forms of social media.

She only 'accounted' for it after David Norris and the McCartney sisters challenged her.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/david-norris-criticises-ma%C3%ADria-cahill-over-ex-dissident-links-1.2424637

It is not like she is alone either. They have also questioned the veracity of people like Paudie McMahon who also suffered sexual abuse as children while part of the Sinn Fein and IRA community.

Is that like Charlie Flanagan questioning the veracity of those who put together the Glenane Gang programme?

Nauseating isn't strong enough to describe the behaviour of these posters on social media.

What is nauseating is those who ignore the hypocrisy of Micheál Martin and Enda Kenny standing with any victim considering they were fighting a victim of abuse all the way to the European court, who was trying to bring in protections for children. They lost the case and still haven't adopted the recomendations of that court AFAIK.
Martin also chose to ignore the victim in the Ceann Comhairle case. There is the hypocrisy that McMurphy alludes to writ large.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I do own them.

.

Grand, so the matter is finished then.

You justify the killing of children by the PIRA, unless we hear otherwise.

Let us move on.

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

Can you please deal with the facts here.

The fact that Maria Cahill was abused as a young girl (she wasn't even an adult) by the PIRA elites, who tried to hide the matter from the authorities and years later she still gets abuse from SF folk.
And here you are using the same sexual abuse victim as some trump card for some virtual likes.

Is that enough facts?

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

It makes you wonder what kind of individuals do this. The woman has suffered an awful lot in her life. The people around her in the republican movement, in Sinn Fein and the IRA, let her down badly, yet their supporters keep abusing her on social media platforms like this.

She has given a very clear account of her short time with dissident republicans - an entirely understandable reaction to her abusive treatment by the likes of Gerry Adams - and expressed real regret at her actions. Yet, we still see disgusting posts like McMurphys all over different forms of social media.

It is not like she is alone either. They have also questioned the veracity of people like Paudie McMahon who also suffered sexual abuse as children while part of the Sinn Fein and IRA community. Nauseating isn't strong enough to describe the behaviour of these posters on social media.

If you, or any of your bedfellows think I care one single iota about obvious, blatantly faux aspersions on my character by your shallow and false posts, try again, water off a ducks back, keep at it blanch/mark, faux outrage and concern is dripping from you now, as it is when you try the homophobic/racist//narcissistic/sectarian slurs when similarly cornered into cul-de-sacs of your own making.

If the allegations Mairia Cahill made are true, it's obviously terrible, and justice should still be served.

However

That does not cancel out the fact that:

Mairia Cahill was a member of a dissident republican terrorist organisation, who opposed the peace process, and was involved in the Omagh bombing.

She was also made a senator of Seannad ireland, even though those who endorsed this knew of her dissident terrorist links and involvement.

This is a fact, no-one can deny it, nor counter it.

Which is why I'm happy enough to not only post about it, but I'll also 110% stand over the posts too.

markodaly wrote: »

The fact that Maria Cahill was abused as a young girl (she wasn't even an adult) by the PIRA elites, who tried to hide the matter from the authorities and years later she still gets abuse from SF folk.
And here you are using the same sexual abuse victim as some trump card for some virtual likes.

Is that enough facts?

See above - it's irrelevant if it doesn't cancel the facts above now, isn't it?

Mairia Cahill was a dissident republican involved with the same group responsible for the Omagh bombing, she was also made a senator to our upper house despite her dissident republican links being well known by those who put her there.


If you, or others have a problem with that, take it to a mod/admin.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

And what wars do I support.... go on, which ones? :pac:

What's the difference between Obama killing innocent people and Saddam killing innocent people. You ran away from that question earlier. Obama dropped 10 times more bombs than George W. Bush btw.

Brendan Bendar

Lot of anger here..... getting heated.

McMurphy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Lot of anger here..... getting heated.

See you were burning the auld midnight oil this morning Brenner, hope you caught up on that missed out sleep bud.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I do own them.

I have never condoned any of the violence, either by being silent (like partitionists) or by supporting.

I voted for SF, just like I have voted for almost all parties that stand in my constituency at one time or another.

Unlike some, I am not hidebound to any particular party.

Could have fooled a lot of folk here, a chara

Brendan Bendar

McMurphy wrote: »

See you were burning the auld midnight oil this morning Brenner, hope you caught up on that missed out sleep bud.

Had to strain the spuds Randal..... might take a little siesta in the arvo

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Could have fooled a lot of folk here, a chara

I can only tell the truth and I have been since joining this forum. I have only voted for SF in a GE once in all my time voting and I have never missed an election in my almost 60 years.

I have said this consistently and transparently. Nobody 'owns' my vote and I have never been a member of a political party ever.

McMurphy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Had to strain the spuds Randal..... might take a little siesta in the arvo

Man after me own heart - was on "call out duty" last night myself bren, thankfully in my normal working life those days are long behind me now, but one of the lads is on paternity leave so needs must.

Thankfully nothing arose, but still had to sleep with one eye open regardless, you know yourself.

Tokyo

markodaly wrote: »

Grand, so the matter is finished then.

You justify the killing of children by the PIRA, unless we hear otherwise.

Let us move on.

Mod: Pretty poor Godwin-style argument there. Quit trying to provoke a response.

hatrickpatrick

markodaly wrote: »

As I said, you are not a Peter Taylor or a Dairmad Ferriter, you are a SF supporter on an internet forum. Very very different things.

Just own your remarks Francie.

This is the exact point in the debate at which you lose all credibility. Classic deflection. You are the one who is refusing to answer Francie's question, not the other way around - and this is blindingly obvious to anyone watching from the sidelines.

markodaly

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is the exact point in the debate at which you lose all credibility. Classic deflection. You are the one who is refusing to answer Francie's question, not the other way around - and this is blindingly obvious to anyone watching from the sidelines.

Deflection on what exactly, why the murders carried out by SF/PIRA can be 'explained' away as well, collateral damage, as something that was well, just inevitable, like the murder of Lyra McKee?

As I said, there is little to no remorse is shown by SF/PIRA, instead, we get revisionism, denial and olympian efforts to 'whatabout'.

grayzer75

markodaly wrote: »

As I said, there is little to no remorse is shown by SF/PIRA, instead, we get revisionism, denial and olympian efforts to 'whatabout'.

Have a read and move on, good lad.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jul/17/northernireland.northernireland2

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Deflection on what exactly, why the murders carried out by SF/PIRA can be 'explained' away as well, collateral damage, as something that was well, just inevitable, like the murder of Lyra McKee?

As I said, there is little to no remorse is shown by SF/PIRA, instead, we get revisionism, denial and olympian efforts to 'whatabout'.

Discussing the causes and effects of a conflict/war is in no way an attempt to condone or support the actions in that conflict/war.

You have used that discussion to lie about me. Do you withdraw the accusation that I 'justify the killing of children?'

I think any reasonable person on either side of the debate would think me justified to be extremely angry at being accused of that, repeatedly by you.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Theres no need to denialy,revisioism or anything,an inability to.acknowledge,that without partition,there wouldnt been any troubles,

Yea, that is the Utopian nonsense that is peddled often. Partition is the root of all evil when they forget why partition exists in the first place. You forget about the 1 million-odd Unionists that live there.

We have seen throughout history wars fought where smaller regions cede from a larger nation-state, from the Balkans to the African Continent from even our own experience with the Union of 1800.

stefanovich

markodaly wrote: »

Yea, that is the Utopian nonsense that is peddled often. Partition is the root of all evil when they forget why partition exists in the first place. You forget about the 1 million-odd Unionists that live there.

We have seen throughout history wars fought where smaller regions cede from a larger nation-state, from the Balkans to the African Continent from even our own experience with the Union of 1800.

Let's face it, the English and Irish have been fighting and invading each other since the 12th century we are inextricably linked and have much in common - much shared history.

Yes the victorian's were cruel but they were cruel to their own as well.

markodaly

stefanovich wrote: »

Let's face it, the English and Irish have been fighting and invading each other since the 12th century we are inextricably linked and have much in common - much shared history.

Yes the victorian's were cruel but they were cruel to their own as well.

Just tell your Republican friends that we were invaded by
a) French-speaking Normans, not Brits or English or Anglo-Saxons
b) They were invited by us!! :pac:

They get awfully confused.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, we can start cherry picking.

Go back to WW2, the Allied bombings were justified, and we were cowardly weasels for standing by and doing nothing.

Similarly, during the IRA campaign, the ambivalent attitude of some of our govern,ents was a disgrace.

To quote your good self, "wow, just wow".
'The mask slips' as you are fond of saying.
This speaks to what you condemn others for, with no basis or back up, but here we have it. Carpet bombing cities, towns and villages is okay if it's killers you like. The height of hypocrisy.

During the same period, 62 million civilians were killed. More than 34 million civilians died in World War II.

And those killers are lauded as heroes, lest we forget.

Why on earth would a people after centuries of ill treatment officially assist such a hateful and bloody regime because another similar one was attacking?

hatrickpatrick

markodaly wrote: »

Deflection on what exactly, why the murders carried out by SF/PIRA can be 'explained' away as well, collateral damage, as something that was well, just inevitable, like the murder of Lyra McKee?

As I said, there is little to no remorse is shown by SF/PIRA, instead, we get revisionism, denial and olympian efforts to 'whatabout'.

Francie asked if laying out the causes and effects of a military action were tantamount to supporting it and all of its consequences. You deflected very specifically by saying "you are not X or Y", X and Y being people not party to this current debate and therefore entirely irrelevant, instead of addressing the issue raised.

That is the fallacy. That is where your credibility disintegrates. Analogy is a perfectly legitimate debating tactic and your attempts to sidestep responding to it by essentially gatekeeping who can or cannot use analogies in their arguments (?????) is utterly ridiculous and a very good specific example of the moment at which your entire argument here comes off the tracks.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Just tell your Republican friends that we were invaded by
a) French-speaking Normans, not Brits or English or Anglo-Saxons
b) They were invited by us!! :pac:

They get awfully confused.

How far back are we going now?
Makes the Irish Nazis/blueshirts seem like yesterday doesn't it? Well we have FG councilor O'Leary admiring them.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Kindly forgetting the uniomists living in the south aswell...looks obvious to me,without partition,the situation wouldnt habe decended into civil war....its pretty easy to compare and contrast with the south like......

You dont even know the history of partition, do you?

After the establishment of the Irish Free State, which comprised of the whole Island, on the 6th of December, 1922, we were for a day one United country.
On the 7th of December, Stormont voted to rejoin the Union, it was the option Westminister gave them.

Quite democratic is must be said.

So, in that scenario, what to do?
Invade the North? Haha. Yea right. We would have been a beaten docket in no time.

There was no appetite in Ireland to invade the North, no matter how many keyboard warriors will tell you otherwise.