The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh sure,
Never mind the significance of what is written here, just look at the headlines in the lead up to the 2016 general election and tell me this paper isn't for sale to the power swap whenever it feels threatened.

https://www.rabble.ie/2016/02/25/its-payback-time/

Gandering at the politics articles on that site,its quite the potpouri of leftwing communist/an Phravda type shoite

The culture/Indy stuff is interesting though,thanks for sharing

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

Gandering at the politics articles on that site,its quite the potpouri of leftwing communist/an Phravda type shoite

The culture/Indy stuff is interesting though,thanks for sharing

What do you make of the headlines? Could you mount a convincing argument that the Independent is independent?
I couldn't, which is why I could no longer believe we live in a society with a free press.
The press is free to be used, in my opinion.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What do you make of the headlines? Could you mount a convincing argument that the Independent is independent?
I couldn't, which is why I could no longer believe we live in a society with a free press.
The press is free to be used, in my opinion.

A free press means they're free to present news Francie, they can be opinionated and even very bias in presenting it.
Are you trying or saying that they shouldn't be allowed to do that?

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

A free press means they're free to present news Francie, they can be opinionated and even very bias in presenting it.
Are you trying or saying that they shouldn't be allowed to do that?

Absolutely, they can do what they like, but I am also free to call anything they write agenda driven propaganda just like An Phoblacht is.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely, they can do what they like, but I am also free to call anything they write agenda driven propaganda just like An Phoblacht is.

Fair enough, an Phoblacht is very agenda driven though Tbf too.

Interesting poll in the Indo this morning ré reunification, still a good majority north of the border against it it seems. The cost seems, to be the only stumbling block this end.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/majority-favour-a-united-ireland-but-just-22pc-would-pay-for-it-40375875.html

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Fair enough, an Phoblacht is very agenda driven though Tbf too.

Interesting poll in the Indo this morning ré reunification, still a good majority north of the border against it it seems. The cost seems, to be the only stumbling block this end.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/majority-favour-a-united-ireland-but-just-22pc-would-pay-for-it-40375875.html

I think they are amazing numbers ahead of a firm proposal for a UI. I know if I was making a presentation how happy I would be if so many were in favour before making a pitch.

Brendan Bendar

Very easy to be ‘in favour’ of stuff when whatever outcome happens, it won’t change your position.

Very easy to call for this that and the divil an’ all when you won’t have to implement and fund it.

As Pat often says”Aah shure Lookit, we’ll worry about that when the moolah runs out”.




Nah mate...

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think they are amazing numbers ahead of a firm proposal for a UI. I know if I was making a presentation how happy I would be if so many were in favour before making a pitch.

Without a majority in the North, it may as well be a poll on a United States of America
A majority in the Republic have probably always had an aspiration for a UI
Up North, sure thanks to the protocol, there's the security of the best of both worlds for a majority
Its actually a c0ck block to a UI

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

Without a majority in the North, it may as well be a poll on a United States of America
A majority in the Republic have probably always had an aspiration for a UI
Up North, sure thanks to the protocol, there's the security of the best of both worlds for a majority
Its actually a c0ck block to a UI

There was no majority in favour of Scottish independence (far from it) with it's poll was called. Those figures changed dramatically when a white paper was published, the figures in favour leading to a majority until Westminster arrived in a panic with what turned out to be false promises.

All to play for. The majority want a proposal and a poll. How long can that be denied is the real question.

Madeoface

The vast majority of people who get off their arses and work in the south, especially those who pay a marginal rate of over 50% now in tax would naturally be quite unwilling to fund £13bn extra for the great FAS scheme that would be a united Ireland. What do the Disney economists in SF want this marginal rate to be, 90%?

The poll puts the 'no way we won't pay' cohort at 54% with 22% saying they would pay more. But does the poll assume the 100% are actually paying tax? Any shinners I know are predominantly lower paid or long term unemployed, so the marginal utility of a UI to them is far far greater than it would ever be to those who work full-time and pay at the marginal rate.

Now if we cut state benefits to norn iron levels/ slashed quangos / got rid of the seanad / stopped free legal aid to unemployed bank robbers and fuel launderers around the border etc to fund such an endeavour you'd potentially be on to something.

As it stands, having the UK pay for norn iron is a moral victory for 800 years of oppression. Taxes are wasted enough here, to think that they could be used to fund 'cultural' ****e like murals about King Billy up North..... forget about it.

FrancieBrady

Madeoface wrote: »

The vast majority of people who get off their arses and work in the south, especially those who pay a marginal rate of over 50% now in tax would naturally be quite unwilling to fund £13bn extra for the great FAS scheme that would be a united Ireland. What do the Disney economists in SF want this marginal rate to be, 90%?

The poll puts the 'no way we won't pay' cohort at 54% with 22% saying they would pay more. But does the poll assume the 100% are actually paying tax? Any shinners I know are predominantly lower paid or long term unemployed, so the marginal utility of a UI to them is far far greater than it would ever be to those who work full-time and pay at the marginal rate.

Now if we cut state benefits to norn iron levels/ slashed quangos / got rid of the seanad / stopped free legal aid to unemployed bank robbers and fuel launderers around the border etc to fund such an endeavour you'd potentially be on to something.

As it stands, having the UK pay for norn iron is a moral victory for 800 years of oppression. Taxes are wasted enough here, to think that they could be used to fund 'cultural' ****e like murals about King Billy up North..... forget about it.

Connolly House will be delighted that 67% of the south are 'Shinners'.

I'm surprised the figure unwilling to pay extra tax is not higher TBH, NOBODY wants to pay extra taxes. It would be what's called a 'leading question'.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Connolly House will be delighted that 67% of the south are 'Shinners'.

I'm surprised the figure unwilling to pay extra tax is not higher TBH, NOBODY wants to pay extra taxes. It would be what's called a 'leading question'.

How is it a leading question when the reality is we will have to pay extra tax to fund it?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

How is it a leading question when the reality is we will have to pay extra tax to fund it?

What we get in return as an island has not been proposed. That is why.

* There are several discussions on this poll going on on the forum. Gonna stick to discussing it on the relevant UI thread.

TXPTGR1

I’m not voting to pay for all the public service wasters and “community organisers” in the north, they can come back to us when they’ve weaned themselves off the billions they get from London and have cut their cloth to measure

Brendan Bendar

Madeoface wrote: »

The vast majority of people who get off their arses and work in the south, especially those who pay a marginal rate of over 50% now in tax would naturally be quite unwilling to fund £13bn extra for the great FAS scheme that would be a united Ireland. What do the Disney economists in SF want this marginal rate to be, 90%?

The poll puts the 'no way we won't pay' cohort at 54% with 22% saying they would pay more. But does the poll assume the 100% are actually paying tax? Any shinners I know are predominantly lower paid or long term unemployed, so the marginal utility of a UI to them is far far greater than it would ever be to those who work full-time and pay at the marginal rate.

Now if we cut state benefits to norn iron levels/ slashed quangos / got rid of the seanad / stopped free legal aid to unemployed bank robbers and fuel launderers around the border etc to fund such an endeavour you'd potentially be on to something.

As it stands, having the UK pay for norn iron is a moral victory for 800 years of oppression. Taxes are wasted enough here, to think that they could be used to fund 'cultural' ****e like murals about King Billy up North..... forget about it.

As that famous lad ‘The Hunch’ would say “Now you’re talking”......excellent post.

maccored

Madeoface wrote: »

The vast majority of people who get off their arses and work in the south, especially those who pay a marginal rate of over 50% now in tax would naturally be quite unwilling to fund £13bn extra for the great FAS scheme that would be a united Ireland. What do the Disney economists in SF want this marginal rate to be, 90%?

The poll puts the 'no way we won't pay' cohort at 54% with 22% saying they would pay more. But does the poll assume the 100% are actually paying tax? Any shinners I know are predominantly lower paid or long term unemployed, so the marginal utility of a UI to them is far far greater than it would ever be to those who work full-time and pay at the marginal rate.

Now if we cut state benefits to norn iron levels/ slashed quangos / got rid of the seanad / stopped free legal aid to unemployed bank robbers and fuel launderers around the border etc to fund such an endeavour you'd potentially be on to something.

As it stands, having the UK pay for norn iron is a moral victory for 800 years of oppression. Taxes are wasted enough here, to think that they could be used to fund 'cultural' ****e like murals about King Billy up North..... forget about it.

you obviously dont know many shinners. the ones I know are (like myself) employed and well paid.

Great to see you've worked out how a UI will be financed etc without the country having any kind of debate or discussion over it. Either that or you are talking 'IMO' rather than any kind of fact

FrancieBrady

The Shinisterists at the Indo just can't help themselves. A perfectly reasonable request for proof of identity turned into something sinister and above and beyond the norm.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/complaint-as-sinn-fein-asks-for-bank-statements-and-photo-id-from-people-looking-to-access-data-party-holds-on-them-40375835.html


Here's what SF actually ask:


“We require a copy of your passport or driving licence or other form of official identification and proof of address so that we can confirm your identity.

Please provide a clear image or a scanned copy of a bank statement or utility bill showing your address. You may redact all detail from the bank statement or utility bill except the letterhead and your name and address. This is a legal requirement to ensure we do not comply with a request about you that is not from you.”

My child made a data request to the local ETB and had to provide proof of identity.

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Shinisterists at the Indo just can't help themselves. A perfectly reasonable request for proof of identity turned into something sinister and above and beyond the norm.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/complaint-as-sinn-fein-asks-for-bank-statements-and-photo-id-from-people-looking-to-access-data-party-holds-on-them-40375835.html


Here's what SF actually ask:


“We require a copy of your passport or driving licence or other form of official identification and proof of address so that we can confirm your identity.

Please provide a clear image or a scanned copy of a bank statement or utility bill showing your address. You may redact all detail from the bank statement or utility bill except the letterhead and your name and address. This is a legal requirement to ensure we do not comply with a request about you that is not from you.”

My child made a data request to the local ETB and had to provide proof of identity.

I liked the last paragraph.

"Sinn Féin has strongly defended the existence of the system but party leader Mary Lou McDonald has admitted that the secret database was in breach of at least two data protection rules"

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Shinisterists at the Indo just can't help themselves. A perfectly reasonable request for proof of identity turned into something sinister and above and beyond the norm.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/complaint-as-sinn-fein-asks-for-bank-statements-and-photo-id-from-people-looking-to-access-data-party-holds-on-them-40375835.html


Here's what SF actually ask:


“We require a copy of your passport or driving licence or other form of official identification and proof of address so that we can confirm your identity.

Please provide a clear image or a scanned copy of a bank statement or utility bill showing your address. You may redact all detail from the bank statement or utility bill except the letterhead and your name and address. This is a legal requirement to ensure we do not comply with a request about you that is not from you.”

My child made a data request to the local ETB and had to provide proof of identity.

Wouldn't it be much easier if the DPC required Sinn Fein to write to each voter in the country and tell them what information that they have been holding on them. Or maybe SF could take this initiative themselves. If they have nothing to hide, it would be a great PR exercise.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be much easier if the DPC required Sinn Fein to write to each voter in the country and tell them what information that they have been holding on them. Or maybe SF could take this initiative themselves. If they have nothing to hide, it would be a great PR exercise.

You should give Mary Lou a ring on that.

And don't be speaking for everyone. I really don't care what info any party have on me, or any organisation for that matter, as long as it is used properly and in compliance.

SF or anyone else writing to me would not allay any of those fears if I had them. My taxes pay for a DPC to do that job and I just wish they would.

Fann Linn

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

As that famous lad ‘The Hunch’ would say “Now you’re talking”......excellent post.

He's that Paris based Shinner Brenner?

Fann Linn

Apart from the Indo and boards, is anyone else running with this story? Haven't heard anything since the story initially broke and John Lee's article last week.

tikkahunter

maccored wrote: »

you obviously dont know many shinners. the ones I know are (like myself) employed and well paid.

Great to see you've worked out how a UI will be financed etc without the country having any kind of debate or discussion over it. Either that or you are talking 'IMO' rather than any kind of fact

You don’t live in Dublin - he is bang about what he said .And once the facts are laid bare no one down south will want to be rode in tax to pay for the **** sandwich that is Norn Iron.

StupidLikeAFox

Fann Linn wrote: »

Apart from the Indo and boards, is anyone else running with this story? Haven't heard anything since the story initially broke and John Lee's article last week.

The DPC are still running with it

FrancieBrady

tikkahunter wrote: »

You don’t live in Dublin - he is bang about what he said .And once the facts are laid bare no one down south will want to be rode in tax to pay for the **** sandwich that is Norn Iron.

What 'facts'?

There are no 'facts' which is why very few are commiting to what the majority clearly want in the south.
It really is quite remarkable how much support there is for what is essentially at the moment a leap in the dark.

Fann Linn

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

The DPC are still running with it

And rightly so.

StupidLikeAFox

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Shinisterists at the Indo just can't help themselves. A perfectly reasonable request for proof of identity turned into something sinister and above and beyond the norm.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/complaint-as-sinn-fein-asks-for-bank-statements-and-photo-id-from-people-looking-to-access-data-party-holds-on-them-40375835.html


Here's what SF actually ask:


“We require a copy of your passport or driving licence or other form of official identification and proof of address so that we can confirm your identity.

Please provide a clear image or a scanned copy of a bank statement or utility bill showing your address. You may redact all detail from the bank statement or utility bill except the letterhead and your name and address. This is a legal requirement to ensure we do not comply with a request about you that is not from you.”

Yes, and as per the article that may be considered excessive.

If all SF have is an address, then they should post a password to the address to verify that. If they have a linked Facebook account, then get the subject to submit the request through Facebook. An organisation typically shouldnt be asking for additional personal information to verify the existing personal information they already have on you

FrancieBrady

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Yes, and as per the article that may be considered excessive.

If all SF have is an address, then they should post a password to the address to verify that. If they have a linked Facebook account, then get the subject to submit the request through Facebook. An organisation typically shouldnt be asking for additional personal information to verify the existing personal information they already have on you

The ETB required more and didn't do the 'password to the address' thing. I think he had to show his passport to them.

They'd be in trouble too if they sent somebody else's data to the wrong person. It may be 'excessive' but does it warrant the sinister slanting?

StupidLikeAFox

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The ETB required more and didn't do the 'password to the address' thing. I think he had to show his passport to them.

They'd be in trouble too if they sent somebody else's data to the wrong person. It may be 'excessive' but does it warrant the sinister slanting?

The ETB is irrelevant - you brought the ETB into it, its nothing to do with the topic

What sinister slanting?? Its a fairly tame report about how SF process their requests. Nothing sinister about it

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You should give Mary Lou a ring on that.

And don't be speaking for everyone. I really don't care what info any party have on me, or any organisation for that matter, as long as it is used properly and in compliance.

SF or anyone else writing to me would not allay any of those fears if I had them. My taxes pay for a DPC to do that job and I just wish they would.

So you reject the principle of consent which is the cornerstone of GDPR.