The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I would like a UI it but not until the Unionist coterie are fully in favour and want the change.

Brendan, quit this stuff will you?

Be honest at least,

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Brendan, quit this stuff will you?

Be honest at least,

Accusing a poster of being dishonest?

A more buttoned down poster might hit the red triangle.

Uhmmmmm…………

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Accusing a poster of being dishonest?

A more buttoned down poster might hit the red triangle.

Uhmmmmm…………

Dis-ingenuous rather than dis-honest.

If you want Unionism to 'want' a UI then you are really saying you don't ever want a UI.

Think about it.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dis-ingenuous rather than dis-honest.

If you want Unionism to 'want' a UI then you are really saying you don't ever want a UI.

Think about it.

No Francie, maybe a better way would be say if a UI was attractive,very attractive ,to Unionists economically and civilly, it could happen.

Events on both sides right now and the atmosphere generated ,particularly by SF and the DUP , in no way facilitate or encourage any attempt to proceed with UI votes, campaigns or other attempts to even dip toes in a
UI agenda.

It’s up to the politicos to make the conditions which ease the tensions and as of now they are making a damn bad job of it.

To start messing it up now would be a recipe for disaster.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

No Francie, maybe a better way would be say if a UI was attractive,very attractive ,to Unionists economically and civilly, it could happen.

Events on both sides right now and the atmosphere generated ,particularly by SF and the DUP , in no way facilitate or encourage any attempt to proceed with UI votes, campaigns or other attempts to even dip toes in a
UI agenda.

It’s up to the politicos to make the conditions which ease the tensions and as of now they are making a damn bad job of it.

To start messing it up now would be a recipe for disaster.

People who believe in a UI believe partition is the root of the problem Brendie.
Pkenty od evidence for thst. The issues/events caused around the Protocol and the current implosion of unionism are directly related to the implications of partition.
Those issues aren't going anywhere fast.

Marco23d

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The only “blatant rubbish” here is in the post I quoted.

If you think that half the population who don’t want a UI will lie down and roll over and accept it, you need to take a more serious look at the issues, rather than pie-in- the - sky idealism.

I would like a UI it but not until the Unionist coterie are fully in favour and want the change.

Absolutely not safe now, very very far from it, the conditions are totally not right to be going down that road at this time or any time soon.

If a vote passes what options do they have?

Start bombing Britain to take them back?

You seem to be living in complete fear without any substance at all.

What do you think would happen Brendan I'm curious?

Brendan Bendar

Marco23d wrote: »

If a vote passes what options do they have?

Start bombing Britain to take them back?

You seem to be living in complete fear without any substance at all.

What do you think would happen Brendan I'm curious?

Well I certainly don’t believe that everything would be hunky-dory and bob’s your uncle if there was a vote for a UI.

To put it very simply, before there would be a ‘Union’that would work here has to be some kind of respect and acceptance of either side of each other .

To not understand that and carry on with the procedure anyway ,for me is like building a house with sand as a foundation.

Recipe for disaster.

The time is a long way from right………… get used to it.

Marco23d

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Well I certainly don’t believe that everything would be hunky-dory and bob’s your uncle if there was a vote for a UI.

To put it very simply, before there would be a ‘Union’that would work here has to be some kind of respect and acceptance of either side of each other .

To not understand that and carry on with the procedure anyway ,for me is like building a house with sand as a foundation.

Recipe for disaster.

The time is a long way from right………… get used to it.

No one is saying everything will be "hunky dory" nothing to do with Northern Ireland has been "hunky dory" for the last 100 years.

Once Ireland unites whatever slight trouble there is that will be the beginning of the end for the 800 years of troubles in Ireland, there will be no more divide as the question of the status quo changing will never arise again and people will finally be able to get on with their lives.

I don't see how people like yourself don't understand that.

Brendan Bendar

Marco23d wrote: »

No one is saying everything will be "hunky dory" nothing to do with Northern Ireland has been "hunky dory" for the last 100 years.

Once Ireland unites whatever slight trouble there is that will be the beginning of the end for the 800 years of troubles in Ireland, there will be no more divide as the question of the status quo changing will never arise again and people will finally be able to get on with their lives.

I don't see how people like yourself don't understand that.

Good luck with that .

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Well I certainly don’t believe that everything would be hunky-dory and bob’s your uncle if there was a vote for a UI.

To put it very simply, before there would be a ‘Union’that would work here has to be some kind of respect and acceptance of either side of each other .

To not understand that and carry on with the procedure anyway ,for me is like building a house with sand as a foundation.

Recipe for disaster.

The time is a long way from right………… get used to it.

Nationalists have demonstrated to Unionists that treating people equally and with respect doesn't meant the world implodes. (see flags, parades and language and social issues)

What has unionism done only kicked and screamed against all of the above. Now it is imploding on itself because the British have told them that in order to fulfil their part of the GFA there has to be a border in the Irish Sea.

The last vestiges of belligerent Unionism is the issue here Brendi. Everyone else (barring a few belligerent nationalists) want to make things work. And have accepted that the only way to do that is by respecting a majority decision.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nationalists have demonstrated to Unionists that treating people equally and with respect doesn't meant the world implodes. (see flags, parades and language and social issues)

What has unionism done only kicked and screamed against all of the above. Now it is imploding on itself because the British have told them that in order to fulfil their part of the GFA there has to be a border in the Irish Sea.

The last vestiges of belligerent Unionism is the issue here Brendi. Everyone else (barring a few belligerent nationalists) want to make things work. And have accepted that the only way to do that is by respecting a majority decision.

Only someone like yourself Francie could believe that.

Bobby Storey funeral….. 3000 ‘uniformed’ people lining the route of the ‘funeral’.

That’s a fairly good positive attempt with the SF politicians large in attendance.

12th of July parades,coat trailing , various other parades.

I see NOTHING in the current scenario,absolutely nothing which would make a move for a UI a good idea.

Only thing that will solve it is time.

When the current wave of war horses die off and people accept reality.

And that’s a way off.

Now Francie….no disrespect, I have no fcuking interest in a UI right now.

I don’t have the time or the interest to spend 600 pages teasing it out.

Talk to me in 20 yers from now if I am still around….. my handle will be

‘Shamrock Bhoy’.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Only someone like yourself Francie could believe that.

Bobby Storey funeral….. 3000 ‘uniformed’ people lining the route of the ‘funeral’.

That’s a fairly good positive attempt with the SF politicians large in attendance.

12th of July parades,coat trailing , various other parades.

I see NOTHING in the current scenario,absolutely nothing which would make a move for a UI a good idea.

Only thing that will solve it is time.

When the current wave of war horses die off and people accept reality.

And that’s a way off.

Now Francie….no disrespect, I have no fcuking interest in a UI right now.

I don’t have the time or the interest to spend 600 pages teasing it out.

Talk to me in 20 yers from now if I am still around….. my handle will be

‘Shamrock Bhoy’.

Nobody is trying to convince you Brendi.

And is that a promise you'll be silent on this issue for 20 years? Fine by me. But I doubt it.

SafeSurfer

Marco23d wrote: »

No one is saying everything will be "hunky dory" nothing to do with Northern Ireland has been "hunky dory" for the last 100 years.

Once Ireland unites whatever slight trouble there is that will be the beginning of the end for the 800 years of troubles in Ireland, there will be no more divide as the question of the status quo changing will never arise again and people will finally be able to get on with their lives.

I don't see how people like yourself don't understand that.

You do realise that Ireland 800 years ago was more divided and politically fragmented than arguably at any time after the Norman invasion.

The status quo never changing again is pretty much guaranteed not to happen.

maccored

Madeoface wrote: »

I know loads, I grew up in an estate where all the workshy were fervent republicans. It gave them a focus other than supporting some Scottish soccer team.�� Never had time to find work but enough spons and time on hand to fund boozy soccer weekends in Glasgow.

That free money grew on a magic tree too that will obviously fund a UI. A UI I don't give two ****s about either way once the real working classes don't pick up the tab and the burden is shared with the welfare classes / work shy.

Send on link to any shinner UI costing, I've seen all the other fairy tales on Disney plus.

Glasgow ... is that in the north now?

How the **** can we have a costing on a UI when we are still at the 'need to disucss it nationally' stage? Really shows the minuscule grasp some have on what a UI is, tied in with the laziest, most stereotypical attitude of what a SF supporter is. "I grew up in an estate where all the workshy were fervent republicans" bull****. All parties have those kinds of voters in their base.

jm08

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Only someone like yourself Francie could believe that.

Bobby Storey funeral….. 3000 ‘uniformed’ people lining the route of the ‘funeral’.

That’s a fairly good positive attempt with the SF politicians large in attendance.

12th of July parades,coat trailing , various other parades.

I see NOTHING in the current scenario,absolutely nothing which would make a move for a UI a good idea.

Only thing that will solve it is time.

When the current wave of war horses die off and people accept reality.

And that’s a way off.

Now Francie….no disrespect, I have no fcuking interest in a UI right now.

I don’t have the time or the interest to spend 600 pages teasing it out.

Talk to me in 20 yers from now if I am still around….. my handle will be

‘Shamrock Bhoy’.

I'm curious to know what you think will happen when unionist lose their majority and SF is the largest party in NI. Do you think unionists will accept this new situation?

Brendan Bendar

jm08 wrote: »

I'm curious to know what you think will happen when unionist lose their majority and SF is the largest party in NI. Do you think unionists will accept this new situation?

Depends on the economics and the attitudes of the time.

Depends on how SF handle the situation

Depends on who is in charge of both parties

Depends on how GB react.


You see what you have in NI is two diametrically opposing ‘forces’ of almost equal strength each looking for totally different goals.

Very little real agreement in the middle except tacit acceptance of each other.

Until real co operation between the factions beds in it will be the Talking Heads song…

Road to nowhere……..same as it ever was…………same as it ever was…….same as it ever was.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

I'm curious to know what you think will happen when unionist lose their majority and SF is the largest party in NI. Do you think unionists will accept this new situation?

Loyalist bombers and shooters will make the province ungovernable and bring their campaign across the border
Same playbook as the real IRA had
Probably targeting Republican marches and businesses and areas
It will be messy?
They'll alienate the London mothership but won't care

jm08

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Depends on the economics and the attitudes of the time.

Depends on how SF handle the situation

Depends on who is in charge of both parties

Depends on how GB react.


You see what you have in NI is two diametrically opposing ‘forces’ of almost equal strength each looking for totally different goals.

Very little real agreement in the middle except tacit acceptance of each other.

Until real co operation between the factions beds in it will be the Talking Heads song…

Road to nowhere……..same as it ever was…………same as it ever was…….same as it ever was.

OK then. What do you think in the following situation?
Economics the same as now.
O Neill and Poots Leaders (MON first minister)
SF behaves the same as it has done now in powersharing.
GB does not react.



The rest of your non answer is what I want your opinion on? How do you think unionists will react to being a minority in Northern Ireland?

jm08

Marine Layer wrote: »

Loyalist bombers and shooters will make the province ungovernable and bring their campaign across the border
Same playbook as the real IRA had
Probably targeting Republican marches and businesses and areas
It will be messy?
They'll alienate the London mothership but won't care

So in other words there is going to be trouble as unionists won't accept democracy?

costacorta

jm08 wrote: »

So in other words there is going to be trouble as unionists won't accept democracy?

Don’t think he is saying Unionists not accepting democracy more like dissidents like you have at the moment the likes of the real IRA etc . As I once said it would be great If you could get the DUP and SF and their bigoted supporters to just F Off to somewhere and let the ordinary folk live in peace ..

Brendan Bendar

jm08 wrote: »

OK then. What do you think in the following situation?
Economics the same as now.
O Neill and Poots Leaders (MON first minister)
SF behaves the same as it has done now in powersharing.
GB does not react.



The rest of your non answer is what I want your opinion on? How do you think unionists will react to being a minority in Northern Ireland?

If you continue with insulting comments prefacing your replies, you can take a running jump at yourself, a chara.

CDarby

costacorta wrote: »

Don’t think he is saying Unionists not accepting democracy more like dissidents like you have at the moment the likes of the real IRA etc . As I once said it would be great I’d you could get the DUP and SF and their bigoted supporters to just F Off to somewhere and let the ordinary folk live in peace ..

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about if that's your attitude, "if the DUP or SF and their supporters F OFF and let ordinary folk live in peace"

Loyalists and the Orange order don't care if they direct their ire at Sinn Fein supporters, SDLP supporters, mass goers who aren't political in the slightest or even little 6 year old school girls being brought to school in Ardoyne by their parents under a hail of abuse, spit and urine, they're deemed as targets because they are Catholic and that's enough.
Sinn Fein are on an unstoppable rise, and will most likely be in government here after the next election, wishing them away isn't going to stop them.

I'm not entirely convinced they'll get my vote just yet, but neither will FF after getting into bed with FG, but if SF keep making the moves they've been making of late, I might just be swayed as will thousands of others who feel let down by FF and FG.

Things are changing, FF and FG aren't guaranteed power any more, you better start accepting that, adapt and move with it, or be left behind.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

So in other words there is going to be trouble as unionists won't accept democracy?

Not unionists,loyalists
They'll behave in the same way that the IRA showed them
Unless theres huge attitude changes between the factions and theres no evidence of change,then we are heading into another war that a majority don't want
It really is that simple unless theres big time compromise and cop on
Please forgive me for thinking people haven't learned up there

jm08

costacorta wrote: »

Don’t think he is saying Unionists not accepting democracy more like dissidents like you have at the moment the likes of the real IRA etc . As I once said it would be great If you could get the DUP and SF and their bigoted supporters to just F Off to somewhere and let the ordinary folk live in peace ..

So you want the people who vote for SF and DUP to f off.? Since they represent a lot of people in NI, what are you proposing should be done with them?

jmcc

The problem for FF and FG is that SF is no longer just a fringe party in the South. This is a bit of a sea change because FF and FG had been used to effectively sharing power for decades. It would, it seems, be better for FF/FG if SF just stuck to the North and left the South to the people in FF/FG who think that they have some god-given right to rule.

There does seem to be a massive panic in the Dublin media over SF and the demographic changes in the North. Perhaps a Border Poll is far closer than people expect. In a United Ireland, SF would probably have more representatives than FF or FG and this is upsetting the FF/FG supporters hence the rise in anti-UI propaganda and anti-SF propaganda from the Dublin media.

Regards...jmcc

jm08

Marine Layer wrote: »

Not unionists,loyalists
They'll behave in the same way that the IRA showed them
Unless theres huge attitude changes between the factions and theres no evidence of change,then we are heading into another war that a majority don't want
It really is that simple unless theres big time compromise and cop on
Please forgive me for thinking people haven't learned up there

When you say people, who do you mean?

jm08

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

If you continue with insulting comments prefacing your replies, you can take a running jump at yourself, a chara.

Sorry, that you felt insulted. Can you now give your opinion using the scenarios I've posted above please.

jmcc

The political landscape of a United Ireland might have some unusual alliances. FF/FG might join with the DUP to become FFGDUP. Though FF, once it disposes of the useless FGer Martin, may seek some kind of agreement with the SDLP. FG might, again once it disposes of Varadkar as leader, might try to get the Alliance onboard.

Regards...jmcc

costacorta

jm08 wrote: »

So you want the people who vote for SF and DUP to f off.? Since they represent a lot of people in NI, what are you proposing should be done with them?

I said the two parties DUP and SF and their bigoted supporters should F off . I think the people who would be left behind would feel happier with the non sectarian parties whom they could vote for .. SF and DUP are just cancers on our society. Thats my opinion and I hate both parties equally..

CDarby

costacorta wrote: »

I said the two parties DUP and SF and their bigoted supporters should F off . I think the people who would be left behind would feel happier with the non sectarian parties whom they could vote for .. SF and DUP are just cancers on our society. Thats my opinion and I hate both parties equally..

Youve clearly no idea about what your talking about, I posted earlier that the loyalists don't care about political persuasion, being Catholic will do for their hate and bigotry. You seem to have ignored that though.

If SF disappeared overnight, the loyalists would simply continue direct that hate and anger at whatever political party emerged as the one representing nationalists, simply being Catholic is enough to attract their ire, ask mass goers in Ballymena, or families of little school girls in Belfast if you don't believe me.