The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

Fann Linn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I could get into what our 'friendships' have stood over. But I won't.
I will just say it is the ultimate in hypocrisy really to be taking holier than thou stances here.

I think it's actually fear that they may just lose the next election. Last time out it was vote for us as we've the experience, now that FFG have been found out it's vote for us as they are worse.

Is this the end

Is this the end wrote: »

Fine Fail and Fine Gael have been awful in Government for a century now. People are willing to give Sinn Fein a chance, deal with it.

Sinn Fein are not responsible for the education crisis, health crisis (pre covid), national debt, housing etc etc.. Thats all on FFG

They'd need to get to about 40-45 seats without canibalising the seats won by other left candidates to be able to bypass FG and FF and form a coalition or get involved with one of those 2
30% doesnt do it for any party on their own,never mind a party consistenly getting a No from 2 of the countries biggest parties
I can see them in coalition eventually,probably with FF or FG but a lot of the words said in this thread and others will be obsolete by the end of that government because it'll bear only tiny resemblence to what SF FF or FG preach now about each other
No objections actually from me at all to them in government
Some of what is considered crackypot now,is only because they haven't been in

blanch152

Is this the end wrote: »

Fine Fail and Fine Gael have been awful in Government for a century now. People are willing to give Sinn Fein a chance, deal with it.

Sinn Fein are not responsible for the education crisis, health crisis (pre covid), national debt, housing etc etc.. Thats all on FFG

This is complete nonsense.

This country has been a resounding success, it is very Irish to be putting it down all the time, but we are the envy of most of the world. Why do you think we are now seeing huge immigration compared to huge emigration in the 1950s and 1960s? The turnaround since 1970 has been staggering, and it wasn't Sinn Fein in government that led that turnaround. They were supporting the bombing of Northern Ireland into the ground at that time.

We have the problems of success, not the problems of failure.

jimmycrackcorm

Is this the end wrote: »

Fine Fail and Fine Gael have been awful in Government for a century now. People are willing to give Sinn Fein a chance, deal with it.

Sinn Fein are not responsible for the education crisis, health crisis (pre covid), national debt, housing etc etc.. Thats all on FFG

One would do well to examine Sinn Fein's record in the north for a comparison. Apart from walking away from governing for three years, only to come back without the issues that led to that being resolved, the North is a basket case in comparison to the South SF led a war for thirty years only to turn around and decide finally that, actually the democratic way is the only way that is going to work.

If you think there is a health crisis now, then I'd be curious how SF will encourage consultants to come here and fill the empty posts while they propose taxing them extra because they earn over 100k.

Billcarson

Is this the end wrote: »

Fine Fail and Fine Gael have been awful in Government for a century now. People are willing to give Sinn Fein a chance, deal with it.

Sinn Fein are not responsible for the education crisis, health crisis (pre covid), national debt, housing etc etc.. Thats all on FFG

Indeed that's the thing these gov supporters can't get into their heads.

We may not be a basket case country and of course it goes without saying there are far worse off countries then ireland but I think ff and fg have held us back from being somewhat better then we currently are.

jimmycrackcorm

blanch152 wrote: »

This is complete nonsense.

This country has been a resounding success, it is very Irish to be putting it down all the time, but we are the envy of most of the world. Why do you think we are now seeing huge immigration compared to huge emigration in the 1950s and 1960s? The turnaround since 1970 has been staggering, and it wasn't Sinn Fein in government that led that turnaround. They were supporting the bombing of Northern Ireland into the ground at that time.

We have the problems of success, not the problems of failure.

I don't believe Venezuela nor Cuba have a housing crisis, so perhaps SF could solve that particular problem by turning us into those models of economics paradise.

FrancieBrady

If SF do get into government, how hardl it be be for some having a government that does things they dont agree with.
I might run 'coping classes' utilising my personal coping mechanisms...make a few shekels, as they say.

blanch152

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't believe Venezuela nor Cuba have a housing crisis, so perhaps SF could solve that particular problem by turning us into those models of economics paradise.

I am not sure that the approach of starving your own population to death as a means of solving the housing crisis, as applied in Venezuela, would go down well with the Irish electorate.

blanch152

Billcarson wrote: »

Indeed that's the thing these gov supporters can't get into their heads.

We may not be a basket case country and of course it goes without saying there are far worse off countries then ireland but I think ff and fg have held us back from being somewhat better then we currently are.

Give an example of a country better than us, and where and how Sinn Fein intend to follow that example.

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't believe Venezuela nor Cuba have a housing crisis, so perhaps SF could solve that particular problem by turning us into those models of economics paradise.

Irs Quare easy not to have a housing crisis under communism with 100's of arbitrary imprisonments of political opponents and journalusts a month that would to paraphrase Frank Kelly make Northern Irelands internment look like outlook
Ridiculous country to be praising

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/country-chapters/cuba

As for Venuezela,millions leaving its poverty

Loafing Oaf

Marine Layer wrote: »

They'd need to get to about 40-45 seats without canibalising the seats won by other left candidates to be able to bypass FG and FF and form a coalition or get involved with one of those 2
30% doesnt do it for any party on their own,never mind a party consistenly getting a No from 2 of the countries biggest parties

But 30% of FPV gets you way more than 40 seats surely? I think they could be in or around 60 seats (probably not on 30% but a few more points could get them there) but still unable to form a government without FF or FG involvement because of that cannibalisation of the left.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If SF do get into government, how hardl it be be for some having a government that does things they dont agree with.
I might run 'coping classes' utilising my personal coping mechanisms...make a few shekels, as they say.

Pass them that Group discount from the psychiatrists your lot order after the Vradakar investigation is closed maybe
Spirit of comradery like

padd b1975

Billcarson wrote: »

Well we will find out sooner or later and you can put your theory to the test ,if which i think your theory will prove incorrect.

Look north Liam.

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

Irs Quare easy not to have a housing crisis under communism with 100's of arbitrary imprisonments of political opponents and journalusts a month that would to paraphrase Frank Kelly make Northern Irelands internment look like outlook
Ridiculous country to be praising

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/country-chapters/cuba

As for Venuezela, millions leaving its poverty

I'm no fan of the Venezuelan government but can we stop the hypocrisy?
It's like you are saying there is no poverty anywhere else in the world.
The levels of poverty that I saw in a rich capitalist country like America are as bad as in most countries.

Billcarson

blanch152 wrote: »

Give an example of a country better than us, and where and how Sinn Fein intend to follow that example.

I would imagine a number of countries in northern Europe .

Whatever sf do I will judge them when they get into power like everyone else.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm no fan of the Venezuelan government but can we stop the hypocrisy?
It's like you are saying there is no poverty anywhere else in the world.
The levels of poverty that I saw in a rich capitalist country like America are as bad as in most countries.

At least we have better state rescue's for them than America:)
You'd want to be blind to be sending representatives to Maduro's inaugeration though
Thats a special level of gerrymandering ignoring hypocrisy

StupidLikeAFox

The world won't end if sinn fein get into power. It will be interesting to see if they can do it firstly - they need to first continue the surge from last time out, unearth a heap of new candidates and then implement a vote management strategy in lots of constituencies to get a decent majority. Its clear they didn't want/weren't ready for government last time out, they won't get away with that next time.

If they do get in they will need to deliver on housing and health, push for a united ireland and somehow manage to pay for it all without passing off a lot of voters. They will get a honeymoon period but i people will quickly get annoyed if they just blame "FFG" forever. That us v them mentality is embedded up north but they will run out of steam quickly if they continue with it down here when they are supposed to be running a country

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

At least we have better state rescue's for them than America:)
You'd want to be blind to be sending representatives to Maduro's inaugeration though
Thats a special level of gerrymandering ignoring hypocrisy

Call it what you want, here for clarity is what MLMD said: just because you buy a certain line from the world's powers doesn't mean you are correct in your stance:

“Yes, we had representatives in Venezuela for the inauguration of the democratically elected president. Politics increasingly is reflective of the fact that we live in a global village. We were there as part of a delegation, we were there because we were invited and I’m very glad that two Sinn Féin representatives were in attendance.

“As to endorsing others, the important thing is that countries freely select their political leaderships and freely elect their governments and their government officials.

“So it’s not for us to be endorsing or otherwise, we have our political work to do here. We present ourselves for election here to the people of Ireland,” she added.

Mr Maduro replaced Hugo Chavez after his death in 2013 and won a six-year term last year despite hyperinflation, chronic food shortages and a severe economic contraction hitting the country. He blames an “economic war” led by the US and local opposition adversaries for the country’s woes.


Ms McDonald said many people would not endorse the leadership of Mr Varadkar on the basis of poverty that they may be suffering.

“You see there would be people who live in this country who would not endorse the leadership of Leo Varadkar on the basis that they endure poverty, some of them live in hotel rooms and many of them are only barely getting by on very low wages.
“I think we also have to acknowledge that he is the Taoiseach and so I think there is a distinction between what people legitimately within their democracies might say or a view that they might have around a political leadership.

“There’s a distinction between that and saying well that’s not legitimate,” she said.

“We believe that the Venezuelan election was open and democratic and the president has been elected. Let me tell you this, it is for the people of Venezuela and for them alone to decide who their president is and who leads them and that’s our position. It’s the only democratic position you can have.”

I think also, if you look at how 'friendships' with those 'world powers' are rationalised here that you will find similar speak to that above.

Is this the end

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

The world won't end if sinn fein get into power. It will be interesting to see if they can do it firstly - they need to first continue the surge from last time out, unearth a heap of new candidates and then implement a vote management strategy in lots of constituencies to get a decent majority. Its clear they didn't want/weren't ready for government last time out, they won't get away with that next time.

If they do get in they will need to deliver on housing and health, push for a united ireland and somehow manage to pay for it all without passing off a lot of voters. They will get a honeymoon period but i people will quickly get annoyed if they just blame "FFG" forever. That us v them mentality is embedded up north but they will run out of steam quickly if they continue with it down here when they are supposed to be running a country

FFG have ran the country with a us v them for centurys. Dont think its any different to up North

FF and FG supporters think they have a right to be in Govt and how dare anyone else get involved. SF living rent free in there heads

Jinglejangle69

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't believe Venezuela nor Cuba have a housing crisis, so perhaps SF could solve that particular problem by turning us into those models of economics paradise.

Oh dear.

Venezuela is now the barometer for Ireland to reach under SF.

Should be fun.

Jinglejangle69

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

The world won't end if sinn fein get into power. It will be interesting to see if they can do it firstly - they need to first continue the surge from last time out, unearth a heap of new candidates and then implement a vote management strategy in lots of constituencies to get a decent majority. Its clear they didn't want/weren't ready for government last time out, they won't get away with that next time.

If they do get in they will need to deliver on housing and health, push for a united ireland and somehow manage to pay for it all without passing off a lot of voters. They will get a honeymoon period but i people will quickly get annoyed if they just blame "FFG" forever. That us v them mentality is embedded up north but they will run out of steam quickly if they continue with it down here when they are supposed to be running a country

I think it will be interesting.

I'm not dreading it surprisingly.

Billcarson

padd b1975 wrote: »

Look north Liam.

The one fear i do have about sf is not how they would handle the economy but they they might put too much effort in trying to get a united ireland. Dont think the country is ready for that and would likely stir things.

Jinglejangle69

Billcarson wrote: »

The one fear i do have about sf is not how they would handle the economy but they they might put too much effort in trying to get a united ireland. Dont think the country is ready for that and would likely stir things.

That's their number one aim.

I don't think they have ever hid that fact in fairness to them.

Billcarson

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

That's their number one aim.

I don't think they have ever hid that fact in fairness to them.

Well they should tread more lightly on that if I were them . Pushing for a united ireland would be dangerous imo. Any border poll should not take place till at least well into the 2030s imo.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Call it what you want, here for clarity is what MLMD said: just because you buy a certain line from the world's powers doesn't mean you are correct in your stance:

Ah I see,nothing to see in Venuezela
*waves hands*

I think also, if you look at how 'friendships' with those 'world powers' are rationalised here that you will find similar speak to that above.

SF doesn't pass the 'Show me your friends and I'll tell you what you are' test by supporting Maduru's basket case tin pot regime to be honest

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

Ah I see,nothing to see in Venuezela
*waves hands*




SF doesn't pass the 'Show me your friends and I'll tell you what you are' test by supporting Maduru's basket case tin pot regime to be honest

Nobody said there was 'nothing to see'. What they did say is that there is 'something' to see almost everywhere, in every government and every system of government.

You'll just have to get used to your government doing things you don't agree with, just as some of us have to do from time to time since the foundation of the state.
It's called, living in a democracy, or. not being a hypocrite and turning a blind eye to things you don't want to see.

jimmycrackcorm

Is this the end wrote: »

FFG have ran the country with a us v them for centurys. Dont think its any different to up North

FF and FG supporters think they have a right to be in Govt and how dare anyone else get involved. SF living rent free in there heads

FF nor FG have run the country with and us vs them. Both are not very far from the centre, FF slightly left and FG slightly right. You might recall how FF's social partnership deal pushed our public spending to unsustainable levels. Compare and contrast dole and pension payments north and south and tell us where us vs them is.

The only supporters that think their party has a right to be in government are SF fans who claim that they won the last election; despite the FFG they also denote as a single entity having twice as many seats. SF supporters don't seem to have a real grasp of how democracy works, which is not surprising for a political organization that is run top-down along the same lines as an army is.

Otherwise, the government that rules is the one that the people chose in their voting patterns.

jimmycrackcorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody said there was 'nothing to see'. What they did say is that there is 'something' to see almost everywhere, in every government and every system of government.

You'll just have to get used to your government doing things you don't agree with, just as some of us have to do from time to time since the foundation of the state.
It's called, living in a democracy, or. not being a hypocrite and turning a blind eye to things you don't want to see.

There's a fair element of truth in this, but it doesn't explain how SF gravitates towards some of the worst governments in the world, and certainly not the ones that Irish people would clamour to emigrate to their countries.

Jinglejangle69

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

That's their number one aim.

I don't think they have ever hid that fact in fairness to them.

What a lot of people don’t realise is that doesn’t mean we just stick the 6 counties onto the 26 and have a massive pissup.

It also means we get rid of the Irish Republic and its 1937 constitution. The Republic as we currently know it will cease to exist and will be replaced with a new Republic based on the 1916 constitution. A socialist republic I believe.

FrancieBrady

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There's a fair element of truth in this, but it doesn't explain how SF gravitates towards some of the worst governments in the world, and certainly not the ones that Irish people would clamour to emigrate to their countries.

There's never an issue with China I notice when they come with big money looking to buy our stuff or stuff from the west.

'Gravitate' indeed.