The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

rdwight

https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-anonymised-polling-5461560-Jun2021/

For Forks Sake wrote: »

I had them to the door a while back, high viz, badge, the lot.
Said she was from IMRA, I smelled something off as didn't recognise the "agency" (Irish Market Research Agency sounded too generic and made-up), asked her for some credentials to prove who she was working for, which she couldn't produce (obviously) so I ran her before she got to ask any questions.

Should have set the dog on them

If this involved calling to people's doors with fake "Irish Market Reseach Agency" ID then it is very, very dodgy. Claiming that the data is subsequently anonymised is equally dodgy. What partisan canvasser/pollster could resist keeping notes on political preferences expressed by potential voters?

Ó'Broin's claim that SF did it because they were a small party is laughable. They've never been short of resources.

guy2231

What was the Provional IRA are now about to take power in Ireland North and South no doubt this will anger the partitionists and the upper classes but the ordinary person will be proud.

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

It just happens that pretty much every thing they do is right.

Reminds me the Rangers chairman years ago who was challenged on why they had never had a Catholic playing for them.

He said Rangers were in no way sectarian and would have no problem signing a Catholic but they just had never come across one good enough.

Nope RD.

Can you point to where I have said any SF policy is 'right'?

I'm a republican who will never belong to a political party.

I defend SF when the anti Republicans lash out and rant mainly.

As a political choice they are as susceptible to the normal foibles and shenaniganis of any political party.

I've called this out as 'silly, shenanagins'.

I have asked anybody who cares to show me how it is any worse than that? Particularly keen to hear from those who handwaved away criminal investigations and penchants for anonymous accounts etc.

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nope RD.

Can you point to where I have said any SF policy is 'right'?

I'm a republican who will never belong to a political party.

I defend SF when the anti Republicans lash out and rant mainly.

As a political choice they are as susceptible to the normal foibles and shenaniganis of any political party.

I've called this out as 'silly, shenanagins'.

I have asked anybody who cares to show me how it is any worse than that? Particularly keen to hear from those who handwaved away criminal investigations and penchants for anonymous accounts etc.

Leave Chris Andrews out of this.


As a republican, I resent the appropriation of the term by those (not necessarily referring to you, FB) who for a long time refuse to recognise the legitimacy of the republic I was born in.

Fann Linn

For Forks Sake wrote: »

I had them to the door a while back, high viz, badge, the lot.
Said she was from IMRA, I smelled something off as didn't recognise the "agency" (Irish Market Research Agency sounded too generic and made-up), asked her for some credentials to prove who she was working for, which she couldn't produce (obviously) so I ran her before she got to ask any questions.

Should have set the dog on them

... a while back...
They haven't been used since just prior to 2016 election according to O Broin just now.

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

Leave Chris Andrews out of this.


As a republican, I resent the appropriation of the term by those (not necessarily referring to you, FB) who for a long time refuse to recognise the legitimacy of the republic I was born in.

Good man. You refusal is your right.

starkid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It sure will be interesting to see what happens people like yourself, so deeply led into fantastical paranoia, when SF do get into government. Which, I hate to deepen your fear is inevitable at this stage.
It's a stint in government...hardly a tanks rolling into Warsaw or Paris scenario.

yeah i'm all for it. you're the only one living in fantasy if you think they can deliver on all their promises as well as a United Ireland. its utter fantasy. i actually feel sorry for you.

it will be gas to see your reaction and your new level of bar setting. it would be worth it for that alone.

its hardly inevitable seeing they can't convince the other 23 or so per cent. although they should be talked to if another election came about as it will just make it extremely toxic if they don't.

but i'd emigrate if it created that toxic black and white, environment from which it was born. you see you don't seem to get that. many of us here take issue with SF's raison d'etre....strong arm violent republicanism.and at the moment they still have people involved in all sorts of ****e.people will always take issue with it, until they clean house. why is that so hard to understand?

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Good man. You refusal is your right.

??

Darc19

rdwight wrote: »

Ó'Broin's claim that SF did it because they were a small party is laughable. They've never been short of resources.

That comment by OBroin made me laugh out loud.

£26.5 million buys a lot of market research. And their annual dinner in new York makes the old FF Galway tent seem like a kids garden party.

But their supporters will swallow the answers without question and that's all that matters

Darc19

Darc19 wrote: »

That comment by OBroin made me laugh out loud.

£26.5 million buys a lot of market research. And their annual dinner in new York makes the old FF Galway tent seem like a kids garden party.

But their supporters will swallow the answers without question and that's all that matters

The wealthiest political party in Europe.

FrancieBrady

starkid wrote: »

yeah i'm all for it. you're the only one living in fantasy if you think they can deliver on all their promises as well as a United Ireland. its utter fantasy. i actually feel sorry for you.

it will be gas to see your reaction and your new level of bar setting. it would be worth it for that alone.

its hardly inevitable seeing they can't convince the other 23 or so per cent. although they should be talked to if another election came about as it will just make it extremely toxic if they don't.

but i'd emigrate if it created that toxic black and white, environment from which it was born. you see you don't seem to get that. many of us here take issue with SF's raison d'etre....strong arm violent republicanism.and at the moment they still have people involved in all sorts of ****e.people will always take issue with it, until they clean house. why is that so hard to understand?

This is funny.

I have never canvassed for SF here or anywhere else. They are a political party subject as I say to the foibles and failings of all political parties.

I have never once claimed they will achieve anything more than breaking the hold of the power swap. Which is why I am currently voting for them.

Fantasies, indeed. Gas!

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

??

Apologies RD, that should have read ...'your resentment is your right'.

starkid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is funny.

I have never canvassed for SF here or anywhere else. They are a political party subject as I say to the foibles and failings of all political parties.

I have never once claimed they will achieve anything more than breaking the hold of the power swap. Which is why I am currently voting for them.

Fantasies, indeed. Gas!

maybe that is indeed the outcome of it. a shock to the establishment parties and a redrawing of the lines.

fair enough you're not buying the economic fantasies or drinking the koolaid but many people are. and when change doesn't come about, what do you think is going to happen?

imo its going to create a level of toxicity we haven't seen before.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is funny.

I have never canvassed for SF here or anywhere else. They are a political party subject as I say to the foibles and failings of all political parties.

I have never once claimed they will achieve anything more than breaking the hold of the power swap. Which is why I am currently voting for them.

Fantasies, indeed. Gas!

Lol and as I said I'm the Queen of Sheeba
Crowns a bit heavy at this stage

FrancieBrady

starkid wrote: »

maybe that is indeed the outcome of it. a shock to the establishment parties and a redrawing of the lines.

fair enough you're not buying the economic fantasies or drinking the koolaid but many people are. and when change doesn't come about, what do you think is going to happen?

imo its going to create a level of toxicity we haven't seen before.

starkid...every time in my almost 60 years on this earth, people bought the fantasies and drank the koolaid of the power swap parties...every single election I have been through as a voter.
That used to be 86% of the electorate. It is now down to just over 40% buying the fantasies and drinking the koolaid.

They lost me finally in 2016 and I have no doubt many more will follow.

blanch152

Marine Layer wrote: »

I think they'll become the new FF actually, they've already absorbed a lot of their vote
So it'll be in and out of coalition until whatever home the permanently disgruntled out grows them and takes their mantle
Rinse and repeat

That is where they are headed all right. They have the populist policies and corruption of a CJ Haughey-type FF, and they will posture similarly on the North.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

starkid...every time in my almost 60 years on this earth, people bought the fantasies and drank the koolaid of the power swap parties...every single election I have been through as a voter.
That used to be 86% of the electorate. It is now down to just over 40% buying the fantasies and drinking the koolaid.

They lost me finally in 2016 and I have no doubt many more will follow.

Ok, you have admitted to have bought the fantasies of the "power swap parties" for almost 55 years of your life, and having been a self-admitted fool for that length of time, and taking so long to see through them, you now expect us to believe that after 5 years, you are certain that SF haven't fooled you?

On the balance of probabilities, isn't it far more likely, given your own self-admitted record, that you have bought the fantasies and drank the koolaid of Sinn Fein, having just swapped it out?

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Ok, you have admitted to have bought the fantasies of the "power swap parties" for almost 55 years of your life, and having been a self-admitted fool for that length of time, and taking so long to see through them, you now expect us to believe that after 5 years, you are certain that SF haven't fooled you?

On the balance of probabilities, isn't it far more likely, given your own self-admitted record, that you have bought the fantasies and drank the koolaid of Sinn Fein, having just swapped it out?

There is another possibility Blanch
That you too are the Queen of Sheba

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Ok, you have admitted to have bought the fantasies of the "power swap parties" for almost 55 years of your life, and having been a self-admitted fool for that length of time, and taking so long to see through them, you now expect us to believe that after 5 years, you are certain that SF haven't fooled you?

On the balance of probabilities, isn't it far more likely, given your own self-admitted record, that you have bought the fantasies and drank the koolaid of Sinn Fein, having just swapped it out?

Running away with yourself again to mis-represent.

I never claimed that. In fact I have just once again in the last few posts said that SF are as susceptible to the shenanigan's and foibles of any political party.

And again, yes, FF and FG did manage to fool me and, in my lifetime, 86% of the electorate as well.
I get it, I understand why people like yourself and starkid find it difficult to let go...been there, done that. But as the power swap's share of the vote falls below 40%, there is hope for you.

starkid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Running away with yourself again to mis-represent.

I never claimed that. In fact I have just once again in the last few posts said that SF are as susceptible to the shenanigan's and foibles of any political party.

And again, yes, FF and FG did manage to fool me and, in my lifetime, 86% of the electorate as well.
I get it, I understand why people like yourself and starkid find it difficult to let go...been there, done that. But as the power swap's share of the vote falls below 40%, there is hope for you.

let what go? your zealousness in trying to paint anybody who is anti SF as a fg or ff shill makes me doubt the veracity of your journey. you know there's multiple world views. it doesn't make it wrong. and trying to paint it as an us versus them is a very sad, toxic narrative. for the record i voted Soc Dems and labour. yes the true establishment parties.

the reason i dislike SF so much is because viewpoints such as yours which are commonplace. a black and white mentality of us versus them. It wouldn't be so galling if there wasn't all sorts of grey involved. even in the Republican movement itself. the thousands of anti british people involved who would laud the British features/leftovers of Ireland. Wolfe Tone and the other Anglo Irish being an example. O'Broinn would love Georgian Dublin. A city built by and for the British. The English football teams. The sons of Roisin and the misty eyed Republican Gaelic romanticism. all that sort of ****e. Its pathetic revisionism and hypocrisy. I get it in the North, i get that. In the South, many Republicans are full of ****. Supporting Man United on their weekends, watching the uk shows, and reading the Sun. These lads are in for a hell of a shock if and when SF get in power and the middle class EOB and Mary have to appease the huge number of middle class suburban voters who don';t really give a flying **** about all that as they are smart enough to understand the nuances. SF are playing to the gallery, except they don't know which one.

FrancieBrady

starkid wrote: »

let what go? your zealousness in trying to paint anybody who is anti SF as a fg or ff shill makes me doubt the veracity of your journey. you know there's multiple world views. it doesn't make it wrong. and trying to paint it as an us versus them is a very sad, toxic narrative. for the record i voted Soc Dems and labour. yes the true establishment parties.

Your blindness to the 'koolaid' you have already drank, leads me to believe you have difficulty in letting go of the status quo.

jm08

starkid wrote: »

let what go? your zealousness in trying to paint anybody who is anti SF as a fg or ff shill makes me doubt the veracity of your journey. you know there's multiple world views. it doesn't make it wrong. and trying to paint it as an us versus them is a very sad, toxic narrative. for the record i voted Soc Dems and labour. yes the true establishment parties.

Former, Sinn Fein the Workers' party that became the Workers Party. Catherine Murphy was originally a follower of Pronsias de Rossa. So you are a Stickie! No wonder you hate Sinn Fein!

jimmycrackcorm

Sinn Feins chief housing objector is quoted:

“You’re trying to compete with the bigger parties who are able to pay professional polling companies, so it was the only way parties like ours were able to do polling.â€

He claimed it was a way to “have a level playing fieldâ€

But SF is the richest party, owner the most property of any party, and gets millions in foreign donations.

It's not just the level of dishonesty that the party shows to the voters, such as promising magically conjured up housing, this is the actual level of practiced dishonesty.

blanch152

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Sinn Feins chief housing objector is quoted:

“You’re trying to compete with the bigger parties who are able to pay professional polling companies, so it was the only way parties like ours were able to do polling.â€

He claimed it was a way to “have a level playing fieldâ€

But SF is the richest party, owner the most property of any party, and gets millions in foreign donations.

It's not just the level of dishonesty that the party shows to the voters, such as promising magically conjured up housing, this is the actual level of practiced dishonesty.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0609/1227134-sinn-fein-polling/


"Mr Ó Broin said it was not unethical and was standard practice."

So lying to the face of voters is not unethical. What next?

jm08

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Sinn Feins chief housing objector is quoted:

“You’re trying to compete with the bigger parties who are able to pay professional polling companies, so it was the only way parties like ours were able to do polling.â€

He claimed it was a way to “have a level playing fieldâ€

But SF is the richest party, owner the most property of any party, and gets millions in foreign donations.

It's not just the level of dishonesty that the party shows to the voters, such as promising magically conjured up housing, this is the actual level of practiced dishonesty.

Did they have all that money back in 2015? They were a small party in number and they were yet to be left the money (probably still don't have it). Anyway, as far as I can recall, that money is to be spent on education and looking after former IRA prisoners and their families who may be suffering hard times. I don't think they could use it for something like polling.

elperello

jm08 wrote: »

Did they have all that money back in 2015? They were a small party in number and they were yet to be left the money (probably still don't have it). Anyway, as far as I can recall, that money is to be spent on education and looking after former IRA prisoners and their families who may be suffering hard times. I don't think they could use it for something like polling.

Poor but honest would be a better calling card for a political party.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Running away with yourself again to mis-represent.

I never claimed that. In fact I have just once again in the last few posts said that SF are as susceptible to the shenanigan's and foibles of any political party.

And again, yes, FF and FG did manage to fool me and, in my lifetime, 86% of the electorate as well.
I get it, I understand why people like yourself and starkid find it difficult to let go...been there, done that. But as the power swap's share of the vote falls below 40%, there is hope for you.

Not misrepresenting anything. You have said, and you are now saying again that FF and FG have fooled you for over 55 years of your time on this planet.

On what basis, therefore, can we believe that you are not being fooled again now? None whatsoever, is the answer. With a track record of having been fooled for that long, it is most likely that you have been fooled again.

Look at St. Paul of Damascus. He also claimed to be enlightened by his experience, but all he did was swap one religion for another, neither of which had any relation to actual reality. You were foolish to believe in FF and FG for so long, people like me always looked cynically at them - I have voted for other parties more often than I have voted for them - and it appears to me that your evangelization of Sinn Fein on these boards can be seen as history repeating itself. Doubtless, if we went back 20 years, you would be similarly defending FF in the same strident terms.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0609/1227134-sinn-fein-polling/


"Mr Ó Broin said it was not unethical and was standard practice."

So lying to the face of voters is not unethical. What next?

How were they lying? They were not doing anything that a commercial polling company wouldn't have been doing.


Leo says that he employed professionals to do it for him, but he is not sure what others might have done.

blanch152

jm08 wrote: »

Did they have all that money back in 2015? They were a small party in number and they were yet to be left the money (probably still don't have it). Anyway, as far as I can recall, that money is to be spent on education and looking after former IRA prisoners and their families who may be suffering hard times. I don't think they could use it for something like polling.

Yes, sure weren't they buying up half the country at that time.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, sure weren't they buying up half the country at that time.

Surely the constituencies were doing that? Buying offices which they probably got for half nothing. Better the rental fee go into the back pocket of the party rather than in the property portfolio of the landlord classes of FFG TDs/councillors.