The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

Shebean

mikethecop wrote: »

why do sf continue to claim a direct connection to the war of independence organisations when there is basis in reality ?

is it a tactic to attract younger and less aware people to the party , that is a clear sf policy right ?

its a very crass manipulation of history.

of course time is a factor but there are still many victims of sf and sf war criminals wandering around Ireland and hiding in america and elsewhere.

their crimes are ongoing

Because they see it as the same thing by all accounts.


As I said, in your opinion.

I don't think it's a new tactic to entice the young. It's more the failures of FF/FG drive people to SF.


If you want to speak about crass manipulation and not understanding history I suggest first you look up the IRA and the ceasefire followed by the GFA and Sinn Fein's involvement. While I believe the IRA and SF were linked, the IRA were the military not SF.

mikethecop

Shebean wrote: »

Because they see it as the same thing by all accounts.


As I said, in your opinion.

I don't think it's a new tactic to entice the young. It's more the failures of FF/FG drive people to SF.


If you want to speak about crass manipulation and not understanding history I suggest first you look up the IRA and the ceasefire followed by the GFA and Sinn Fein's involvement. While I believe the IRA and SF were linked, the IRA were the military not SF.

still dodging the facts ( not opinion ) that sf portray themselves as an organisation that was present and active during the 1920s ,


this is factually and provably not true ( not opinion) and a crass manipulation of historical facts

"linked" is a very mild way to describe the association between the ira and sf .

Shebean

mikethecop wrote: »

still dodging the facts ( not opinion ) that sf portray themselves as an organisation that was present and active during the 1920s ,


this is factually and provably not true ( not opinion) and a crass manipulation of historical facts

"linked" is a very mild way to describe the association between the ira and sf .

All I know is they see the violence of both ends of the 20th century as the same deal. They essentially are IMO. Not everyone was delighted with Collins' murdering either.
There was a SF and they do see themselves as inheriting that. Their party was founded by a man went on to form Fianna Fail.
Reads like FF/FG want the glory days to themselves which is equally ludicrous if that's your understanding.


Yes, linked. You can of course choose a sexier word which means the same thing. 'cahoots'?

FrancieBrady

Shebean wrote: »

All I know is they see the violence of both ends of the 20th century as the same deal. They essentially are IMO. Not everyone was delighted with Collins' murdering either.
There was a SF and they do see themselves as inheriting that. Their party was founded by a man went on to form Fianna Fail.
Reads like FF/FG want the glory days to themselves which is equally ludicrous if that's your understanding.


Yes, linked. You can of course choose a sexier word which means the same thing. 'cahoots'?

FF/FG want the glory but don't want to face up to the fact that the same things were done then as were done in 60's 70's and 80's.

Hypocrites, is the word for them.

mikethecop

Shebean wrote: »

All I know is they see the violence of both ends of the 20th century as the same deal. They essentially are IMO. Not everyone was delighted with Collins' murdering either.
There was a SF and they do see themselves as inheriting that. Their party was founded by a man went on to form Fianna Fail.
Reads like FF/FG want the glory days to themselves which is equally ludicrous if that's your understanding.


Yes, linked. You can of course choose a sexier word which means the same thing. 'cahoots'?

a cynic might think that they try to portray that link as real in order to steal political legitimacy.
It is a more recent thread too targeting younger people .

cahoots ? perhaps .
one controlled by the other more likel.
two roots of the same tree might be closer

fffg squandered any "glory" they might have hoped for many years ago and deserve no more credit but at least they didn't steal it

politics is a dirty game i agree but some have a lot fresher blood on their hand than others, collins etc have very few victims still suffering , the same cant be said for todays sf

Shebean

mikethecop wrote: »

a cynic might think that they try to portray that link as real in order to steal political legitimacy.
It is a more recent thread too targeting younger people .

cahoots ? perhaps .
one controlled by the other more likel.
two roots of the same tree might be closer

fffg squandered any "glory" they might have hoped for many years ago and deserve no more credit but at least they didn't steal it

politics is a dirty game i agree but some have a lot fresher blood on their hand than others, collins etc have very few victims still suffering , the same cant be said for todays sf

I don't think many put as much weight into SF and their IRA connections as FF/FG would like them to. Some are proud of the IRA affiliation.
People care about housing, wages and living, generally.


I don't think any current FF/FG member played any part in the 1916 rising

banquo

Shebean wrote: »

I don't think many put as much weight into SF and their IRA connections as FF/FG would like them to. Some are proud of the IRA affiliation.
People care about housing, wages and living, generally.

Whether the other parties like it or not, it's priced in to the vote. It's like saying "But Trump is an asshole!" Yeah, people know. There's nothing you can do to change it.

Young people won't factor the IRA stuff in.

Their connections to gangland crime, however, would be worth an effort by their detractors. Because the IRA stuff ain't landing.

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Wasn't Paddy Holohan suspended from the party following those comments on his podcast?

Didn't they suspend the entire SW Dublin operation following his reinstatement and Mayoral nomination?

Wasn't he suspended again following his more recent lockdown rantings, leading to his departure from the party?

Surely you can find a better example of, 'nothing happening' to contrast with FF/FG's alleged, 'out on your ear' approach than a fella that was suspended and is in fact out on his ear (albeit it took far too long to get to that point).


Weren't the three FG senators caught up in Golfgate recently readmitted to the party without prejudice recently, by unanimous vote?

I notice that Barry Cowen is still in FF despite the drink driving controversy that he was embroiled in. Joe Flaherty still there after being involved with something you'd be the first to be calling for resignations about should it have involved a SF member.


Maybe its more naughty step than out on your ear with all parties when it suits? Perhaps we should be able to expect better from all of them instead of trying to pretend it is only an issue with SF?

For the record, lest it been seen that I'm defending SF or Paddy Holohan, even if I was so inclined to vote SF since moving across the border, I'd give up my vote before I'd give it to an incompetent like Paddy Holohan, and think he should've got the boot after the initial podcast fiasco.

Oh dearie me, making the three Golfgate Senators comparable to the clusterfu@k that is Paddy Holohan.

How about the Kingsmill bread councillor, another with a sectarian bent? He is back and elected again, isn't he?

We also have the rent-dodging, charity-killing TD Violet-Anne, not to mention the various anti-vaxxers and 9/11 conspiracy theorists still doing the rounds. And I haven't even used the words Dessie Ellis or Aengus O'Snodaigh!!!

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

Oh dearie me, making the three Golfgate Senators comparable to the clusterfu@k that is Paddy Holohan.

How about the Kingsmill bread councillor, another with a sectarian bent? He is back and elected again, isn't he?

We also have the rent-dodging, charity-killing TD Violet-Anne, not to mention the various anti-vaxxers and 9/11 conspiracy theorists still doing the rounds. And I haven't even used the words Dessie Ellis or Aengus O'Snodaigh!!!

Yes, I'd say attending a public event in the midst of a global pandemic while advising the plebs to stay at home is worse than saying something unpleasant on the internet.

I'd also say that writing a letter to the courts defending violent criminals is worse than saying something unpleasant on the Internet.

I'd DEFINITELY say drink driving with no license is worse than saying something unpleasant on the Internet.

Regardless of what any other Shinner fruitcake got up to, your point that FF/FG would have them, 'out on their ear' is clearly wrong, as evidenced by the examples I gave above.....and instead of acknowledging that with any sort of graciousness, you're off to rant about someone else in SF.

I'll reiterate, regardless of which Shinner you point to who should've been booted out of the party, it is clear that this is not something unique to them, as evidenced by the examples above; they were not, 'out on their ear' as you said.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Yes, I'd say attending a public event in the midst of a global pandemic while advising the plebs to stay at home is worse than saying something unpleasant on the internet.

I'd also say that writing a letter to the courts defending violent criminals is worse than saying something unpleasant on the Internet.

I'd DEFINITELY say drink driving with no license is worse than saying something unpleasant on the Internet.

Regardless of what any other Shinner fruitcake got up to, your point that FF/FG would have them, 'out on their ear' is clearly wrong, as evidenced by the examples I gave above.....and instead of acknowledging that with any sort of graciousness, you're off to rant about someone else in SF.

I'll reiterate, regardless of which Shinner you point to who should've been booted out of the party, it is clear that this is not something unique to them, as evidenced by the examples above; they were not, 'out on their ear' as you said.

Well said, you lifted a few slates there, as they say.

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Yes, I'd say attending a public event in the midst of a global pandemic while advising the plebs to stay at home is worse than saying something unpleasant on the internet.

I'd also say that writing a letter to the courts defending violent criminals is worse than saying something unpleasant on the Internet.

I'd DEFINITELY say drink driving with no license is worse than saying something unpleasant on the Internet.

Regardless of what any other Shinner fruitcake got up to, your point that FF/FG would have them, 'out on their ear' is clearly wrong, as evidenced by the examples I gave above.....and instead of acknowledging that with any sort of graciousness, you're off to rant about someone else in SF.

I'll reiterate, regardless of which Shinner you point to who should've been booted out of the party, it is clear that this is not something unique to them, as evidenced by the examples above; they were not, 'out on their ear' as you said.

Always the unrelated whataboutery to defend SF.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

Always the unrelated whataboutery to defend SF.

.....I think you'll find YOU introduced FF/FG to the discussion; YOUR, 'out on their ears' comment. Surely you can't have forgotten that? Would you like me to go back and quote it?

Directly responding to your point isn't whataboutery, and it CERTAINLY isn't unrelated; it very directly addressed the content of your post.

Take a random jibe, get called out for the obvious factual inaccuracy and then try and escape the discussion. Twas ever thus in our interactions on here, Blanch.

CDarby

blanch152 wrote: »

Always the unrelated whataboutery to defend SF.

You are accusing someone of "whataboutery" because they have your number, and called out your absolute nonsensical ranting..... Just in case you may have forgotten, it was you that made the comparisons with different party's , and how they deal with their members.

Here it is.

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, Brendan, you make a very fair point.

If you do wrong in FG or FF, you are out on your ear.

If you do wrong in SF, nothing happens, and you are likely as not to get a promotion, look at Holohan, racist, misogynist, homophobic troll, yet he gets nominated for mayor.

Kind of hard to debate with people who resort to the likes of that when cornered.

Brendan Bendar

Fionn1952 wrote: »

.....I think you'll find YOU introduced FF/FG to the discussion; YOUR, 'out on their ears' comment. Surely you can't have forgotten that? Would you like me to go back and quote it?

Directly responding to your point isn't whataboutery, and it CERTAINLY isn't unrelated; it very directly addressed the content of your post.

Take a random jibe, get called out for the obvious factual inaccuracy and then try and escape the discussion. Twas ever thus in our interactions on here, Blanch.

A prolific member of your team, has used the opposite interpretation to that post to defend his stance.

Uhhhhmm……. I wouldn’t go there dude.

Fionn1952

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

A prolific member of your team, has used the opposite interpretation to that post to defend his stance.

Uhhhhmm……. I wouldn’t go there dude.

I don't have a, 'team', Brendan....though a few of your fellow posters always seem to show up with the same list of talking points within minutes of eachother.

I've already went there; I've very clearly pointed out the issue with your buddy's post in a direct response to it.....and he's run off shouting whataboutery.


If you'd care to take a go at explaining how a direct response to a post is whataboutery, or indeed how a post that is also critical of SF is defending them, feel free now that he has tagged you in.

CDarby

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

A prolific member of your team, has used the opposite interpretation to that post to defend his stance.

Uhhhhmm……. I wouldn’t go there dude.

As already pointed out, if someone uses something as an example to try and (unsuccessfully) prove a point, it's most definitely not "whataboutery" when someone else tears that point to shreds.

Seems that poster blanch125 wants his cake, and to be left alone to eat it. Hardly unsurprising to see them being pulled up on it.

tikkahunter

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

A prolific member of your team, has used the opposite interpretation to that post to defend his stance.

Uhhhhmm……. I wouldn’t go there dude.

Careful now , they don’t like that and you will be reported ðŸ˜႒

Brendan Bendar

:eek:

tikkahunter wrote: »

Careful now , they don’t like that and you will be reported ðŸ˜႒

:eek:

Fionn1952

tikkahunter wrote: »

Careful now , they don’t like that and you will be reported ðŸ˜႒

So nothing at all in response to the actual point I made.....just the team Search and Rescue Squad called to action to deflect, deflect, deflect.

Quick, call someone a Shinnerbot and post an article from 1994 and maybe no one will notice!

Floppybits

Fionn1952 wrote: »

So nothing at all in response to the actual point I made.....just the team Search and Rescue Squad called to action to deflect, deflect, deflect.

Quick, call someone a Shinnerbot and post an article from 1994 and maybe no one will notice!

And don't forget the auld runaway and hide after making said statement.

Ten of Swords

Can we get back on topic please, there seems to be more talk about other posters rather than the actual purpose of the thread

blanch152

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-not-run-by-army-council-saysmary-lou-mcdonald-40600985.htm

"When asked if she makes phone calls to figures in Belfast, Ms McDonald said as the party leader nationally she has to “have an eye on everything that is happening across the island”."

Typical SF doublespeak. Not in a position to deny the accusation so she obfuscates and misdirects. Clear from that response that she does ring people in Belfast for guidance. The boys in Belfast still run the show, it seems.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-not-run-by-army-council-saysmary-lou-mcdonald-40600985.htm

"When asked if she makes phone calls to figures in Belfast, Ms McDonald said as the party leader nationally she has to “have an eye on everything that is happening across the island”."

Typical SF doublespeak. Not in a position to deny the accusation so she obfuscates and misdirects. Clear from that response that she does ring people in Belfast for guidance. The boys in Belfast still run the show, it seems.

So you're just going to ignore the previous nonsense you spouted that was demonstrably wrong and move onto your next bit of nonsense, pretend it didn't happen when shown to be demonstrably wrong (like your claim that APNI supported an independent NI) and sure we'll all just act like you haven't made a fool of yourself?

You can do better surely? Maybe you can tag your pals in to drop a handful of irrelevant insults to distract from it instead?

rdwight

Who to believe?

"Erika Guevara-Rosas, Amnesty International’s Americas director, said at least 140 Cubans were believed to have been detained or had disappeared in the aftermath of Cuba’s largest demonstrations in decades.

The idea is to punish those who dare to challenge the government … and send a message” that no further protests would be tolerated, said Guevara-Rosas, who said spontaneous and peaceful rallies had taken place in at least 48 separate locations, including Havana"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/13/cuba-protests-activists-journalists-protesters-detained

"In recent days and weeks, we have witnessed the efforts of sinister forces attempting to subvert the combined efforts of the Cuban people and government"

https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/61369

Grab All Association

Deflection from a disastrous by-election in FG heartland.

FG aren’t getting that seat back.

FrancieBrady

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117612991#Comment_117612991

Did you spot that they are not commenting on the same thing? Why would you have a problem with choosing who to believe? They both could be right/wrong.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613216#Comment_117613216

As this is the SF thread,I await posters around the country,billboards even hailing the Glorious Cuban revolution and tv election ads lauding how great an example they are

Tiocfaidh ár Cuba

blanch152

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117612991#Comment_117612991

Sinn Fein accuses Amnesty International of being a sinister subversive force? Who'd have thought it?

mikethecop

Investigation launched after Sinn Féin ‘ignore’ monument staff by unfurling political banner for propaganda film stunt - Independent.ie

i guess if you dont like the rules you can just brake them then ?

rdwight

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613245#Comment_117613245

No I didn't spot that Francie. What was Brady's reference to "In recent days and weeks, we have witnessed the efforts of sinister forces attempting to subvert the combined efforts of the Cuban people and government" ? The blockade has been in place for years, so he can't have been referencing that.