The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732207#Comment_117732207

But I didn't say that dudley.

I'll say it again shall I? You asked what SF/IRA achieved.

1. SF the political party that emerged has exposed the power swap, the others were all happy enough at taking their turns at taking scraps from the various sham coalition tables and being decimated at the next election because they took the fall. Rinse and repeat. Because SF are now in the picture the power swap have had to have a confidence and supply arrangement and have now tacitly merged as one in order to maintain the power. That has altered Irish politics in a fundamental way.
2. If you want to see what the IRA achieved you need to look at what the electorate have said and they have rewarded the political representatives of the IRA, over and over again.

No spin in any of that. If you can counter argue using actual facts and not invecive...go ahead.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732255#Comment_117732255

No thanks

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732423#Comment_117732423

Change my opinion on each post?

What do you mean?

You asked what 'SF/PIRA achieved' I answered giving my point of view, honestly.

You can keep deflecting to try and avoid giving a factual and thought out answer here. I think we can all see through that though.

Celebrating the memory of a man who was responsible for burning a young woman to death in front of her child is exactly the sort of thing you’d expect from SF. They are not a normal party.

It’s the same party who had a leader who knew his brother was a rapist and sent him over the border; the same party who has a very senior member who has information about the torture and murder of Paul Quinn; the same party who sent thousands of people to Belfast to attend the funeral of a sociopath who shot a 15 year old with the mental age of a 7 year old in the back of the head for mistakenly being called out as in informer; the same party who had its most senior Belfast member call around to a pub to clean up the scene of the murder of Robert McCartney - a man who had an eye removed and was slit from his groin to his neck.

A party of thuggery, criminality and murder. Bottom of the barrel sorts.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732484#Comment_117732484

Your first sentence calls out any 'celebration' of soldiering or war.

Unless the claim is that women and children haven't died innocently in every war/conflict since the beginning of time.

People are going to remember their dead, in the full knowledge that they have committed some heinous acts.

Look around you and take the blinkers off, it is actually the norm to do it, not abnormal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732484#Comment_117732484

That young lad also died for ireland....same as those back in the 1920s......i think its to their credit they dont forget them (you goys be always wanting to remind people...but they then want to commerate em....foam at mouth outrage🤣🤣)

Easy to virtue signal about palestine,etc while turn a blind eye to those,whom died fighting oppression on this island.....

only for likes of pira,nationlists would have noone to stand up for em,while brits slaughtering nationlists on streets and burning out entire streets.....bobby sands only joined after his family been burnt out numours times

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732794#Comment_117732794

plenty of people stood up for nationalist, People across the World supported the people and because of these people the Good Friday was signed. They never needed to blow up young mothers or shoot young mothers in the back of the head.

If the claims you make are true then SF and the PIRA would of had huge support in the community they claimed to be fighting for, they didn’t, the PIRA ended up killing more “nationalists” than anyone else. I would hate to see what it would have been like if they didn’t support them, how many more thousand would have been killed

That’s the same PIRA who killed more nationalists than any other group involved? A grotty sectarian organisation who tortured, shot, bombed and raped, and now have a political party eulogising these actions. That thug they were remembering on Sunday burned a young mother to death. What did that do for the cause of Irish unity?

The great thing about not being a SF supporter is you don’t have to defend stuff like that. Because it’s indefensible, and defending it warps people.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732865#Comment_117732865

I don't defend the actions in any conflict/war Doc. And I try to understand why conflict/wars begin and escalate.

I feel much better than you can imagine.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732862#Comment_117732862

How do you want to see this 'support' expressed?

The electorate in the North overwhelmingly and for a very long time reward SF with their votes.

SF who you always tell us are the same as the IRA?

You can run but you cannot hide from that fact.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732865#Comment_117732865

Im not even a sf supporter(likely vote indo next time),just dislike the deeply conceited critism of the troubles....but that young lad seen plenty of service,before being injured in a bombing

The ira as an organisation didnt rape anyone,nor set out to....such childish hyperbole is a bit silly tbh

best not to mention decades of free state goverence in bed with catholic church taking kids off poor people and funneling em into industrial schools and what went on there....theres a reason we have generations of elderly irish dying in squalor abroad,whom swear to never return,however

If it was a sectarian campaign....deosnt fact it killed more catholics/nationlists kinda of show up how silly that point is....you guys are trying to claim 2 positions simutaneously,which are simply incompatible and hoping to use emotive bluster to cover up a deficit of facts and logic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732897#Comment_117732897

Maybe you can use this understanding to let the readers know what cutting a man from his groin to his chest had to do with this conflict, and how it helped achieve the objectives of the IRA? Or how bring rape victims in front of their rapist in a room about a pub on the Falls helped move the dial on Irish unity?

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732903#Comment_117732903

You can spend all day lying on here Francie but doesn’t change the support for the PIRA and SF in the nationalist community was small, tiny in the 80/90s.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732922#Comment_117732922

Didnt that chap,go to assitance of a friend(bank robber) and got knifed in the affray that insued?

Such conceited critism,seems illogical,when faced with facts and logic of what occured

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732940#Comment_117732940

Show us your data on that.

SF grew their vote through the 80's and 90's while the IRA was active. Despite being killed, shot at, intimidated, a vicious anti SF propaganda campaign, being banned from the airwaves etc etc.

Of course the fantasy we are asked to believe is that the northern electorate see them as separate from the IRA as soon as the GFA was signed. :)

The electorate always knew they were voting for a party that supported the IRA, just as they do now. And the are the biggest most popular nationalist party in the north and the biggest and most popular political party in the South.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732922#Comment_117732922

We can cherrypick acts that are horrendous all day here and still arrive at no understanding.

Apart from the fact, (provable since the beginning of time) that if you allow the circumstance to exist, conflict/war will break out and terrible things happen in a conflict/war. Again you have the evidence for that from the beginning of time. The mindset that unleashed the Hiroshima/Nagasaki atrocities are no different to the mindsets that carried out the acts above or shot dead innocents in the streets.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731885#Comment_117731885

So political violence is ok as long as you are successful ?

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732974#Comment_117732974

As shown previously you ignore all data. The “vicious” campaign as you call it was fully supported both North and South of the border. Too many people in PIRA and SF making money out of people’s misery to stop a war nobody wanted but themselves

Still today you have SF supporters talking about “Catholic” Belfast trying to reignite the troubles at every turn

Politician who are supposed to represent the people of Northern Ireland constantly running murder of civilians in the nose of those people.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732922#Comment_117732922

Or sticking a broom handle up a man's backside and putting lit cigarettes on his eyelids?

Round and round we go.....

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/internment-a-brush-shaft-up-my-backside-and-cigarettes-on-my-eyelids-1.4633821

It must be very comfortable to live in Fine Gael land and hold the world to what you know without the need for understanding, empathy or knowledge outside of your own me fein bubble.

I know the election really hurt feelings but trying to have honest informed discussion on current affairs may be more helpful.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733242#Comment_117733242

What 'data' was I shown?

This is just lying about another poster in order to deflect from the fact you have no data to support your claims. The main tactic used here.

Here is some actual data for you to try and spin to fit the nonsense statements you are making:

1983 - Alex Maskey was the first SF member elected to the Belfast City Council in 1983...SF polled over 100,000 votes in the WM election, and Adams won the seat in West Belfast - 1983 - that's 15 years before the IRA ceased and signed up to the GFA. By 1985 - 13 years before the GFA they had 59 seats on 17 of the 26 NI councils, 7 on Belfast City COuncil alone.

They went on to totally eclipse the SDLP and have held that support since the GFA.

The reason I know the above is that I tried to understand why SF had support in NI. I was not prepared to write my fellow Irish men and women off as supporters of random killing and murder. I wanted to understand.

If you are going to make statements, ^ back them up with data or stand accused of not understanding what happened and how and why it happened.

Kermit.de.frog

You can be highly critical of the ra and Sinn Fèin and be every bit as republican.

Whenever SF are criticised their hard core supporters seem to assume you are either a unionist or pro British or whatever.

This has always been a fallacy. There are people in all political parties who believe every bit as much in a United Ireland as a matter of principle. They just have different ways of getting there, a different approach.

jm08

You think its a better idea to be lighting bonfires (polluting the atmosphere and posing danger to housing) and banging rubbish can lids on the streets of West Belfast to commemorate Internment rather than enjoying a festival of music instead?

The organisers of Feile are to be congradulated. I wish the Orange Order would take a leaf out of their book!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733614#Comment_117733614

Very very few people who genuinely believe in a UI would say the 'IRA or SF are the primary reasons for what happened here' which is the stance I argue with most.

All the combatants were wrong IMO with the primary responsibility lying with the government that had the power to stop it.

CDarby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733237#Comment_117733237

Exactly this. As I said, his post was an oxymoron, but he didn't even realise the hypocrisy within his own post.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733614#Comment_117733614

The problem is some people, generally Fine Gael supports upset by SF's popularity, try to make every discussion about current opposition in the south, the north and the possibility of a United Ireland about things the IRA did. Like the IRA and SF affiliates last century before the GFA are all a UI or N.I. is about. It's driven by SF's popularity. It's childish IMO.

I agree. Works both ways. Having every discussion go to what the IRA did just brings us in circles and it's designed to get dirt on SF because they did well in the last election. This corrupts any reasonable debate.

When people spread lies or make allegations without any back up, calling them out doesn't make you a shinner either.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117730685#Comment_117730685

You need to listen to the lyrics of that song and watch the original video with the song which looks to have been taken in West Belfast/Derry with possibly some of the grandchildren/children of those in the original video dancing and singing to the music of that song at Feile.

Its an anti-war/violence song just in case you don't get it. Delores wrote it after the Warrington bombings where she had been touring. In it she asks for us (Irish) not be blamed for what happened.

But you see, it's not me

It's not my family

In your head, in your head, they are fighting

With their tanks, and their bombs

And their bombs, and their guns

In your head, in your head they are crying

I don't think any of the IRAs had tanks.

Here are the lyrics and video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts

Having watched that video, how great it is to see all those kids having a good time now in Belfast to what their parents suffered back then.

BackOfMyBag

fg (and ff to a lesser extent too) have long feigned taking offence at certain republican commemorations north of the border, while at the same time holding official state commemorations for essentially the same things south of the border. this good ira/bad ira is tiresome and hypocrisy.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733762#Comment_117733762

100 times this ^

It is an insult to O'Riordan's writing to take that song as anything other than an anti war/conflict song.

Feile Na Pobail once again showing how far ahead of the Never Never Never belligerent Unionist community the nationalist one is.

Able to sing that loud in recognition that it was all wrong and should never happen again.

Meanwhile we have Unionists Ministers inventing terror threats and stoking as best they can loyalist youths to violence.

Thankfully and as predicted the wider Unionist community is not interested in regression either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733614#Comment_117733614

Would yous not think without the ira,there would be no prospect of a utd ireland,as the british wouldnt have stopped attacking catholics until they had em all forced out of 6 counties

Little point in aspiring for a utd ireland,while ignoring plight and washing hands of nationlists,when its politically expedient to do so

jh79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733882#Comment_117733882

It was written as a criticisim of the IRA.

Particularly offended that terrorists claimed to have carried out these acts in the name of Ireland, O'Riordan asserted: "The IRA are not me. I'm not the IRA. The Cranberries are not the IRA. My family are not. When it says in the song, 'It's not me, it's not my family,' that's what I'm saying. It's not Ireland, it's some idiots living in the past".