The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118384614#Comment_118384614

Heres the funny thing and what always makes me snigger when lads start screaming socialist/communist etc at me,is im much more capitalist,in strictist sense of word,than overwhelming majority posting....in that i actually own assets,that i extract income from

The fact you need to stoop this low to justify your position,should send alarm bells ringing,but pop culture pol,deosnt do introspection....i take no pleasure in saying this pop culture centrism is a failed ideology,but record breaking levels of homelessness and people simply being unable to prosper anymore and worsening social conditions, screams failure of policy to me anyway....

Things have to change and ffg have had long enough to make it work,and i do not envisage any change over next 10 years under their rule....they've set their stall out,to my eyes its failed policies,will never work,and time to try something,anything new

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118384622#Comment_118384622

Why spend your time twisting my post to something it wasn't? Show me where I said SF would fix everything.

I didn't but keep ignoring my question about how SF with 50 votes would form a stable government?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118384724#Comment_118384724

How did I twist it, when I quoted it?

Never said they would. All I'm saying is we are all better off if nobody deals with FF/FG.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118384724#Comment_118384724

With the greatest of respect,your not looking stragetically from a mid-to-long term stragedy point of view

Your lust for a stable government is what blinkers your pov.....whereas a 36 month SF government will push irish times/ffg even further to the right (some of coverage by media during pandemic has been utter madness,their sole good polocy last few months has been downplayed to fcuk,which should tell you enough about direction they headed)....

while hardening the left....thus wiping out this fabled centrism(which is bolix anyway).......push a proper left/right divide and let people decide what offers em a better future

This farce of political parties pushing themselves as business friendly,even sf,always strikes me as advertising for lobbying/corruption

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118383824#Comment_118383824

If the rate of decline in FF/FG support continues in the opinion polls, an SF majority government is a possibility. SF's seat would arguably have been higher in the 2020 GE had it run enough candidates. Instead, many potentially SF seats went ot Greens, SocDems and Independents. FF, Under Martin's extremely pro-FG "leadership" has diluted the FF brand so much that the electorate finds it hard to tell the difference between FF and FG these days and this has major ramifications for a GE in that FF and FG will be competing for the same votes in the same constituencies. That means that they will have to enter into an electoral pact if they don't want to end up fratriciding each other for seats. This might be a new phrase for some. It basically means that a party which had enough votes for a seat runs multiple candidates and has its vote spread out over these candidates with these candidates getting eliminated while the candidate slightly ahead in votes manages to get elected. The 2020 GE in Waterford saw a Green candidate get elected ahead of two FG candidates because of this effect. The worrying aspect for FF/FG is that second choice support, where measured in opinion polls, seems to be mainky votes rotating between FF and FG. Perhaps the only thing left for FF/FG is to merge as a single party.

Regards...jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118384700#Comment_118384700

Doesn't that make it worse though because it looks like you are just parroting traditional left wing Republican core mantra rather than practicing it

A bit like when Gerry flew out to the States in business class for surgery

Rules for thee but not for me

gormdubhgorm

I was wondering giving the days that are in it - release of archives etc. Would SF/IRA now release a statement saying ‘yes the ceasefire is permanent’ Or words to that effect?

SF/IRA refused to do so back in 1994

’https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-ira-did-not-want-permanent-in-any-ceasefire-announcement-1.4762960

At the time SF/IRA used the word ‘complete’ instead of ‘permanent’.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ira-1994-ceasefire-did-london-and-unionism-miss-an-opportunity-1.4002701

It gives the impression that SF/IRA could take up arms again if they do not get their way politically. At some stage in the future.

As it was pointed out in Gerry’s Christmas Carol in jovial fashion ‘they haven’t gone away you know’ - referring to his 1995 statement.

hatrickpatrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118384254#Comment_118384254

The two halves of the Titanic are incredibly "stable", they won't be moving much lying as they are on the bottom of the Atlantic. Stability is not necessarily positive. In the last thirty years, FF and FG alike have followed the UK and the US off the neoliberal cliff and that's why the cost of living in Ireland is currently spiralling out of control relative to take-home pay. Until that problem is addressed, people will continue to condemn both of these parties and seek alternatives who display any kind of empathy with those who are being screwed by this macroeconomic paradigm which FG smugly refers to as "recovery".

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118384622#Comment_118384622

I don't see the point in anyone voting for a party only to have them partner with the like of FF/FG.

Because SF would be by far the largest party and setting the agenda. FF has proved itself ideologically malleable in the past; I don't see why they wouldn't go along with most of what SF wants next time in return for a few ministerial mercs.

Indeed I'd say there's a good chance FF would be supporting the government from outside as it did withn FG in the last Dail. Could you live with that sort of partnership?

n.b. I'm talking about FF here because I think any deal between SF and FG is extremely unlikely for a raft of reasons

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118386130#Comment_118386130

I'm not saying FF wouldn't. I'm saying SF shouldn't. Or any other party. FF/FG needs to go IMO. Enough is enough.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118386240#Comment_118386240

They do need to go bit unfortunately for any government to be formed in this country you need 2 of FF/FG/SF to form a stable government. Trying to form a government with 2 of those 3 would not be a stable one unless one of those party wins at least 65 to 70 seats to avoid having together some sort patchwork quilt of a government. Also I think any government that will have PBP in it wouldn't last long as I could see them walking over anything they may not agree with. I would also say the same about labour if they went in with SF, I could see them walking out on them quicker than they would with FF/FG.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118387572#Comment_118387572

The stable thing is the problem. What would FF want and would we be better off than with FF/FG?

Labour should have walked on FG last time. The whole faux moral bullshit as regards SF is just that. No morals for Reilly's clinics, Irish water jobs for our own, made up envoy posts and being under criminal investigation regarding leaking government documents and on and on. All reason for walking IMO.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118387572#Comment_118387572

Basically SF will have to compromise their radical edges. And I don't think they are in a position to be able to. Too much of the old guard in the background. I am not sure a coalition of the Left would work either. Many of those parties are even less stable and more politically militant than SF. They would probably be even too left for SF.

SF's only hope is an an overall majority on their own. Can't see that happening not the most transfer friendly of parties.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388546#Comment_118388546

Well I believe they've already done that to the point where they would not find it too difficult to cut a deal with FF, if FF were really up for it.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388655#Comment_118388655

If FF going in with FG doesn't already show either are capable of anything. All they had going for them was being an alternative to each other.

Nobody is going to reward a party for refusing to talk to SF, especially as they are currently so popular with the public. TBF FF/FG would need some neck to try use any moral high ground.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388726#Comment_118388726

I don't think so a lot will praise parties for not soiling themselves by going in with SF. It is noticeable SF mostly chase the young new voters. Ones with short memories. The naive.

If any party is capable of anything it is SF (but at a slow pace)- they are yet to be a fully fledged normal constitutional party. One who has only recently recognised the benefits of the SCC for instance. A party which votes in one bloc and has little dissent - on even local issues. No to housing in the ROI coolock etc.

Many things are still not right with SF as they transition to normality. That much is clear IMO.

Saying the name of the states they represent, could be a nice a small start?

But the younger voters don't see that they are blinded by giveaway promises.

And the young voters are not looking under the hood at what is happening. But they will learn fast, is my guess.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388904#Comment_118388904

Nobody voting outside of FF/FG is going to praise FF/FG for anything.

Is voting for FF having a short memory, being naive? Is FG guilty of that? Do you think housing and health and cronyism might be a factor?

You are ignoring why they and others block housing.

You are being too patronising to the electorate and too simplistic. Didn't this government just give everyone €100?

I think your analysis is flawed. It relies on people voting SF being young and naive, open to phantom as yet undefined giveaways and unaware of modern history.

I do not believe people suffering under the housing crisis would factor in some car bomb back in the 70's. FF/FG must realise, most people live in the now. Some might even have supported what part SF played in modern history or not cared either way. They are by far the most popular party in the country. Thats nothing to do with Bobby Sands or the 'RA.

Brendan Bendar

Why are they “the most popular party in the country”?

Because they have promised a lot but done absolutely nothing.

A very flimsy and shaky criterium for popularity., even worse when evaluated as a potential govt.

Built on sand, my friend.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389489#Comment_118389489

A bit like what FG promised in 2011 and delivered nothing except a housing crisis. You always say that SF have done nothing, can you explain that statement?

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389570#Comment_118389570

I’ll turn that around

What have they done to improve lot of folk in this country.?

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389582#Comment_118389582

Why don't you just answer the question that I asked? It was you that has said they have done nothing so can you explain that? I am sure since you made the statement you can back it up.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389590#Comment_118389590

They have done nothing, if you can point out anything they have done other than oppose or try to trump everything the Govt. arranges, go ahead and tell me.

I wonder whose idea it was to try and lie about Garda Sheehy and private Kelly's murders ?

What next,Adare Gardaí's guns backfired perhaps ?

Not a normal party

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/1230/1269112-garda-review/

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389666#Comment_118389666

So you are not going to answer the question I asked so I can assume that you don't have anything to back it up and therefore that post was just pathetic attempt at deflection just like the one following that where instead of answering the question you say "I will turn that around". Answer the question if you can, if you can't then just put your hands and say yes I was deflecting from FG awful performance in government since 2011.

FullyComp

Seems to be a couple of instances of conspiracies being floated online to add doubt to the Provo Atrocities.

Kingsmill was British false flag according to a thread on here

The garda and soldier murdered in the Mr Tidey incident were shot by their own colleagues

Given what we have seen on this site with fake accounts pushing the Provo agenda (which we're not allowed discuss) you would have to wonder....

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118390128#Comment_118390128

In matters of politics, I've butted heads with aul Bren more than once myself.....but asking a poster to prove that SF haven't done anything makes absolutely no sense.....if his statement was true, how could he prove it? There would be no evidence by the very nature of the statement.....because if he was correct, doing nothing would hardly generate evidence would it?

I'm usually firmly on the side of requiring the person making the statement to shoulder the burden of proof, but it isn't really practicable in this case. What are you hoping for? A blank page? A photo of people doing something with no Shinners in it?

I don't buy his premise, but you could much more easily argue against his claim by providing evidence of something they've done rather than badgering for him to prove a negative.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389489#Comment_118389489

You'd really need take the whole post and the quote I'm responding to to understand mo chara. If you don't think the are popular, fine.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389987#Comment_118389987

Is that why you think people are supporting them? One lad thinks its a lot of young naive people.

Nobody thinks its due to the poor show from FF/FG? Might explain why they are doing do well in the polls.

Sf's record is clear from when they headed DCC

Pretty poor

They were thrown out at the next election

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118390212#Comment_118390212

So you are reading some random twitter posts and using them to conclude that people you disagree with on here are making up the points you don't like?

The only political leader we have suggesting setting up anonymous twitter accounts to push an agenda is Leo Varadkar.

You are falling into the foolishness that expects supporters of the provos or provos themselves to apologise. You've as much chance getting the BA to apologise.