The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119826166#Comment_119826166

So if Eoin thinks his comments were 'ill judged' then I'm assuming he doesn't think it was right to be calling for the Chief Economist to be sacked. Now I know absolutely nothing, good, bad or indifferent, absolutely zilch, about the Chief Economist, so if Eoin doesn't think (on mature reflection) he should be sacked, and I presume there is nobody else of any consequence who thinks that the Chief Economist should be sacked, then I am reasonably happy with him not being sacked. Having said that, this issue, Eoin or Mr Howlin won't be keeping me awake tonight.

O'Neill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119798786#Comment_119798786

SF are a mirror image of the UK Labour Party in that regard.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119826608#Comment_119826608

Again you are avoiding the issue it was a strange attack. How often is the Chief Economist mentioned in the news, and secondly how often is the Chief Economist attacked? It has happened because of SF.

Also I would be interested as to who advised EO’B to backtrack?

Was it his missis? Was it MLM? Was it Michelle? Was it Gerry? Was it individuals publicly unknown in SF and unelected? How does it work in SF in such a scenario?

In such situations which SF ‘higher up’ says to Eoin - ‘Listen comrade…..remember the strategy?’

That is what I would be interested to know and also how SF as a whole view the Irish Civil Service. As partner/adviser/enemy?

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119827388#Comment_119827388

Again you are avoiding the issue it was a strange attack. How often is the Chief Economist mentioned in the news, and secondly how often is the Chief Economist attacked? It has happened because of SF.

OK, I'll try not to avoid the issue (although I wasn't sure I was). I have absolutely no idea how often the Chief Economist is mentioned/has been mentioned in the News, I'm not great at keeping track of stuff like that. Again I have absolutely no idea how often the Chief Economist is/has been attacked, and again I'm not great at keeping track of stuff like that. Are you saying it has never happened before in our long and illustrious history of Chief Economists - if you say so I'll believe you. Clearly, and irrefutably, in this instance it has happened because of SF (or Eoin O'B to be specific and accurate)

Also I would be interested as to who advised EO’B to backtrack?

Was it his missis? Was it MLM? Was it Michelle? Was it Gerry? Was it individuals publicly unknown in SF and unelected? How does it work in SF in such a scenario?

It could have been his missis, MLM, Michelle, Gerry, individuals publicly unknown in SF and unelected, I've no idea, it could be yourself, Uncle Tom Cobley, anybody. If I knew Eoin O'B and I knew that the Chief Economist was a great chap I'd have said to Eoin, 'Hey Eoin WTF are you at with the sacking of our excellent Chief Economist, pull in your horns and apologise for your unwarranted comment'. Would that satisfy Mr Howlin and his fellow conspiracy theorists or does it have to be a West Belfast comrade

In such situations which SF ‘higher up’ says to Eoin - ‘Listen comrade…..remember the strategy?’

I hope I have answered (as best I can) this above

That is what I would be interested to know and also how SF as a whole view the Irish Civil Service. As partner/adviser/enemy?

Again I have absolutely no idea, but I would hazard a guess (just from giving it a moment or two of thought). As things stand it is virtually certain that SF are going to be in Government after the next election (and in all probability in partnership with a junior partner), and there are 300k (give or take a few) in the Irish Civil Service. So if SF see the current Civil Service as their enemy I presume they will sack the lot and bring in a new 300k, which would be reasonably challenging. What I would suspect (and again this is just from giving it a moment or two of thought) is that SF will view the Irish Civil Service as partners/advisers, after another moment of thought I would think that they would be batsh1t crazy (and I don't think they are that) not to treat the Irish Civil Service as partners/advisers. Those are my thoughts, what do you think yourself

Now I hope I have answered all your little queries/questions without avoiding anything

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825948#Comment_119825948

Where it was a mistep in SF strategy is that it has made all middle-ranking and senior civil servants aware of the problems that SF will bring to the table.

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828518#Comment_119828518

Is it the SF strategy to sack all middle-ranking and senior civil servants do you think, or put another way what is the SF strategy that all middle-ranking and senior civil servants are now aware of

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828007#Comment_119828007

You have now in fairness, which can be summarised as you don’t know, and prefer not to speculate on awkward questions. Which enabled you to appear to say a lot, but say little.

You would make a good politician.

On the subject at issue. The reason I think it has less to do with one individual as a whole (E’O’B) and more to do with a SF mindset as a whole. Because unlike other parties it is much rarer that any SF member deviates from the ‘party line’.

From voting against housing developments on DCC and so on. The party SF is more likely than other political parties to think ‘as one’ (at leat on the surface). And I find it fascinating how SF can run such a tight ship, given their historical past. With SF each word is carefully chosen and many phrases are laced with symbolism. It must be hard work. As it goes beyond what an average public representative has to think of.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828518#Comment_119828518

There is no point in you answering because it is the SF supporters take on it I wanted. But it seems I will just have to read between the lines of obfuscation and defensive mindset instead.

That is the most an online SF supporter would ever reveal I think. It is an unwritten rule to obfuscate/defend/deflect they would never say a bad word publicly about their own. Unless they are banished from ‘the cause/SF party’.

marieholmfan

Mid and senior civil servants should realise that they will implement the policies of the incoming government or they will be sacked and their pensions will be made forfeit. Personally I would have them all shot but Sinn Fein are namby pamby centrists.

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829120#Comment_119829120

It appears to me that you and Mr Howlin (and others including myself) have wasted a multitude of words on what appears to me to be an amusing total non issue.

Would you like me to speculate that Eoin O'B was contacted by a West Belfast comrade and told to apologise or else, would that make you happy, because if it would I am more than willing to do so, anything to make you happy. It would only be speculation of course.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829160#Comment_119829160

Now, see that is the problem with Sinn Fein. They do not see democracy and the separation of powers in the same way that normal people do. There is the legislature, the executive and the judiciary. SF have previously refused to recognise any of the courts, and are still ambiguous on the SCC. Now we see that they are prepared to take a hatchet to the civil service part of the executive.

Your response only confirms the danger that SF represent to democracy.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828984#Comment_119828984

It is clear that SF, unlike all other previous political parties in government, are prepared to sack middle-ranking and senior civil servants for holding different views and giving advice that SF don't want to hear. That is a new departure and that will have effects, none of which I can see as positive.

marieholmfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829180#Comment_119829180

Let's hope not. The judiciary and the permanent civil service must be brought to heel.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829160#Comment_119829160

Can’t touch their pensions, regardless of what they do, or don’t do.

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829193#Comment_119829193

Are you getting that from Eoin O'B's proposed sacking of the Chief Economist, Mr Howlin's erudite piece, or from some other tinfoil hatters contribution. Link please to any evidence (or indeed speculation from a reputable source) that SF are prepared to sack middle-ranking and senior civil servants for holding different views and giving advice that SF don't want to hear

mikep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829258#Comment_119829258

They won't be able to sack anyone either I expect...

Civil and public service jobs are pretty untouchable

I've been wondering for a while how SF were going to react to meeting the civil servants who really run the show, If EOBs comments are anything to go by it's not going to be an easy accession to power .

He might come to regret his little hissy fit yet ..

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829264#Comment_119829264

Eoin O'Broin's original statement was when the mask slipped, that is all the evidence needed. No amount of backsliding changes that.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829221#Comment_119829221

So speaks an anti-democrat.

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829295#Comment_119829295

That's absolutely fair enough, so what you have is Eoin O'Bs proposed sacking of one senior civil servant and you equate it to SF are prepared to sack middle-ranking and senior civil servants for holding different views and giving advice that SF don't want to hear, bloody hell English can't be that difficult to comprehend

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829151#Comment_119829151

If that comment is directed at me then I would absolutely refute it, no obfuscation or defensive mindset from me. I think you may be confusing someone challenging bullsh1t and waffle with obfuscation and defensive mindsetting. If it wasn't directed at me, apologies.

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829258#Comment_119829258

Nor can you sack Civil Servants either afaik, unless for very specific actions.

Edit: Its quite possible/probable that somebody like the Chief Economist isn't a Civil Servant as such but is just on a fixed term contract, in which case they probably could be let go depending on the terms of their contract, I don't know if that's the case though

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829312#Comment_119829312

The mindset is clear, that is all that is needed. No other politician goes around saying civil servants should be sacked (except maybe Eoin's intellectual equivalent in Paul Murphy).

He said what he said, we can draw our reasonable conclusions from it.

And your response is a clear example of a defensive mindset, trying to limit reasonable conclusions.

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829398#Comment_119829398

Of course you can draw any conclusion you want from it, you can draw that he wants to sack all mid and senior civil servants, you can draw that he wants to sack all civil servants, you can draw that he wants to illegalise all political parties, you can draw that he wants to invade Ukraine, you can draw any conclusions you want but it doesn't mean that those conclusions aren't complete and utter bullsh1t

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829434#Comment_119829434

It is a reasonable conclusion that if SF in opposition are calling for a civil servant to be sacked because they don't agree with his views on housing policy that they will act on this in government and that others are at risk.

Any other conclusion can only be on the basis that SF tells lies about what it will do in government.

Denying the validity of my reasonable conclusion and calling it complete and utter bullsh!t is a clear example of "obfuscation and defensive mindset".

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829445#Comment_119829445

It's a large tinfoil hat

marieholmfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829258#Comment_119829258

Have a referendum on it.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829284#Comment_119829284

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/eoin-o-broin-writes-letter-of-apology-to-states-chief-economist-after-calling-for-him-to-be-sacked-42116473.html

I think he has already realised the mess that he has created.

300,000 public servants and their families worrying about being sacked by a SF government is not a welcome prospect. I would guess that every Garda who has run up against a good republican is very worried about their job.

blanch152

https://www.independent.ie/news/alleged-ira-man-jailed-for-raping-two-teenage-boys-at-republican-safe-house-fails-in-bid-for-more-time-to-bring-an-appeal-42116966.html

The appalling legacy of the SF-supported PIRA lives on in the victims who are still suffering.

Still ok to sing Up the Ra?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832240#Comment_119832240

The past & the future will come back to well & truly haunt SF yet.

Come the next election, we'll see a lot of focus on both their Republican history and a fierce scrutiny of SF policies. Can't see either holding up.

notsocutehoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832240#Comment_119832240

Eoin O’Bs proposed sacking of the Chief Economist (and by extension the whole 300k Civil Service) is the only topic of discussion today in the supermarket aisles, fairways, pubs, restaurants, Custom House Long Room, coffee docks, hospital waiting rooms, terraces, Talk to Joe, over garden fences, any and everywhere that the ordinary Irish folk meet and gather, people whispering in hushed tones, it is all enveloping.