The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

happyoutscan

blanch152 wrote: »

This is funny.

Poster complains about Irish public interest in the British Royal Family because it takes away from the national TV station giving full attention to the British national sport.

You couldn't make it up.

Cricket is the national sport of Britain.

blanch152

Let's move on from the hilarious replacement of RTE coverage of the British Royall Family with coverage of the British national sports and turn our attention to something more serious - the brazen attempts of Sinn Fein to foster and encourage foreign interference in domestic politics.

https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2021/0310/1203044-sinn-fein-us-adverts/

"Sinn Féin has taken out adverts in a number of US newspapers calling for the Irish Government to prepare and plan for a united Ireland."

When the Irish government seeks the assistance of the diaspora in the US, it is with a view to putting pressure on the British government or on terrorist organisations in the North, it is never about interfering in our own domestic politics. This blatant attempt to secure foreign influence on domestic politics is another nefarious low for Sinn Fein.

Natterjack from Kerry

blanch152 wrote: »

Let's move on from the hilarious replacement of RTE coverage of the British Royall Family with coverage of the British national sports and turn our attention to something more serious - the brazen attempts of Sinn Fein to foster and encourage foreign interference in domestic politics.

https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2021/0310/1203044-sinn-fein-us-adverts/

"Sinn Féin has taken out adverts in a number of US newspapers calling for the Irish Government to prepare and plan for a united Ireland."

When the Irish government seeks the assistance of the diaspora in the US, it is with a view to putting pressure on the British government or on terrorist organisations in the North, it is never about interfering in our own domestic politics. This blatant attempt to secure foreign influence on domestic politics is another nefarious low for Sinn Fein.

Well, for an organisation directed from abroad I Belfast anyway, that's not a very big step for them.

What other countries in the world would Ireland be in a group with, of countries who have political parties pursuing an agenda set I a foreign country?

Brendan Bendar

Connolly House claim it was the ‘Friends of Sinn Fein’ took out the ads.

Does it matter, I have to ask? ( Just to get in before the pedants)

No.

landofthetree

They are a joke.

They sit in with the far left in the European parliament yet they support a neoliberal corpo tax regime in Ireland.

blanch152

landofthetree wrote: »

They are a joke.

They sit in with the far left in the European parliament yet they support a neoliberal corpo tax regime in Ireland.

They sit with the far left in Europe and oppose property taxes in Ireland.
The easiest way to fund a solution for homelessness is to double or triple the LPT, a tax on homeowners, a proper left-wing policy.

Fionn1952

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Connolly House claim it was the ‘Friends of Sinn Fein’ took out the ads.

Does it matter, I have to ask? ( Just to get in before the pedants)

No.

So an American organisation has taken out an advertisement in some American newspapers? That's our source of faux outrage for this morning?

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

So an American organisation has taken out an advertisement in some American newspapers? That's our source of faux outrage for this morning?

Are you saying that none of the organisations have any links with Sinn Fein?

Do you agree with the attempts (from whoever they are) from afar to interfere in Irish domestic politics?

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

They sit with the far left in Europe and oppose property taxes in Ireland.
The easiest way to fund a solution for homelessness is to double or triple the LPT, a tax on homeowners, a proper left-wing policy.

A much more reasonable criticism and a legitimate talking point.

Why not focus on things like this, that might actually pull younger left leaning voters away from SF instead of trying to manufacture fake outrage that will be totally ignored by anyone who doesn't already hate the party?

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

A much more reasonable criticism and a legitimate talking point.

Why not focus on things like this, that might actually pull younger left leaning voters away from SF instead of trying to manufacture fake outrage that will be totally ignored by anyone who doesn't already hate the party?

International interference in domestic politics is not a trivial issue.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

Are you saying that none of the organisations have any links with Sinn Fein?

Do you agree with the attempts (from whoever they are) from afar to interfere in Irish domestic politics?

'Links with' is such a useless mud slinging term in this context. The advertisements were not taken out by SF, as suggested in your post. They were taken out by an American organisation (who publicly support SF, and as such would likely spread a similar message) in America. A discussion about the appropriateness of SF's lobbying of groups like FOSF in the broader sense may have some merit, but an American group taking out an advertisement in an American newspaper? Seriously reeks of faux outrage and throwing sh*t at the wall to see what'll stick.

I was quite happy with attempts from afar to interfere with domestic politics during the negotiation of the GFA, so I wouldn't make a hypocrite of myself by making a blanket condemnation of it, no.

This though, all and all I think it is pretty low grade and unlikely to impact much of anything. Total non-news which does a disservice to legitimate criticism of SF by decreasing the signal-to-noise ratio. You're particularly bad for this one; any tabloidesque nonsense you can throw out there, you're guaranteed to do so, often at the expense of moving the conversation on from criticisms that might actually convince anyone.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

International interference in domestic politics is not a trivial issue.

Putting it very simply, do you think anyone will actually change their mind on SF or change their voting intentions because an American organisation (who publicly support SF) took out an advertisement in American newspapers, targeted at the Irish diaspora living in America? Essentially I don't think it achieves anything but a wee circle jerk for a handful already fully entrenched in their views.

The point regarding their supposed left leaning credentials and the hypocrisy of their anti LPT stance in contrast? That could actually convince younger voters who have been taken in by the lefty talk over to shift voting intentions.

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Putting it very simply, do you think anyone will actually change their mind on SF or change their voting intentions because an American organisation (who publicly support SF) took out an advertisement in American newspapers, targeted at the Irish diaspora living in America? Essentially I don't think it achieves anything but a wee circle jerk for a handful already fully entrenched in their views.

The point regarding their supposed left leaning credentials and the hypocrisy of their anti LPT stance in contrast? That could actually convince younger voters who have been taken in by the lefty talk over to shift voting intentions.

The ad is only the starting point. Next will be the begging letters following on from the ads looking for money.

Fianna Fail used to do it 60, 70 years ago.

Bishop of hope

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Putting it very simply, do you think anyone will actually change their mind on SF or change their voting intentions because an American organisation (who publicly support SF) took out an advertisement in American newspapers, targeted at the Irish diaspora living in America? Essentially I don't think it achieves anything but a wee circle jerk for a handful already fully entrenched in their views.

The point regarding their supposed left leaning credentials and the hypocrisy of their anti LPT stance in contrast? That could actually convince younger voters who have been taken in by the lefty talk over to shift voting intentions.

Depends on what you buy as left.
If you promise to house and feed on the community basis that can be accepted by some despite the means of achieving it.

Fionn1952

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Depends on what you buy as left.
If you promise to house and feed on the community basis that can be accepted by some despite the means of achieving it.

Yes, there are a spectrum of left-leaning views. My point wasn't that shining the light of LPT on things would cause a mass exodus of voters, but rather it could convince some voters to change.....unlike the absolute non-story being pushed here this morning, which I genuinely don't think has any persuasive power at all. Those already entrenched in their view will continue to be, everyone else will pretty much ignore it.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

The ad is only the starting point. Next will be the begging letters following on from the ads looking for money.

Fianna Fail used to do it 60, 70 years ago.

If you're referring to FOSF begging for money, another non-story. An American organisation lobbying for cash in America isn't of any interest to me. Should that money make its way over here in an illegal (or legal but questionably ethical) manner, that would be something to complain about (akin to the creative accounting they used to accept the cash from the disgruntled bloke in the UK's will. Legal, but ethically questionable).

Either way, pointing to a total non-story and then coming up with what might happen next and getting outraged by your hypothetical what next? Still not going to convince anyone. Perhaps if and when what you consider inevitable actually happens, that would be the time to make the criticism otherwise it is just all a bit, 'the boy who cried wolf'.

Bishop of hope

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Yes, there are a spectrum of left-leaning views. My point wasn't that shining the light of LPT on things would cause a mass exodus of voters, but rather it could convince some voters to change.....unlike the absolute non-story being pushed here this morning, which I genuinely don't think has any persuasive power at all. Those already entrenched in their view will continue to be, everyone else will pretty much ignore it.

And that's the problem of trying to form a "left" govt here.
Sinn Feins main problem is that the "real left" find them untouchable too.
If they compromise with either FF or FG it could be regarded as a sell out to their new voters.
Going forward and perhaps a term in govt is where the real judgement on SF can begin as regards running the country.
It's probably going to happen, if they don't chicken out themselves, and I'm not sure they won't again either.

Fionn1952

Bishop of hope wrote: »

And that's the problem of trying to form a "left" govt here.
Sinn Feins main problem is that the "real left" find them untouchable too.
If they compromise with either FF or FG it could be regarded as a sell out to their new voters.
Going forward and perhaps a term in govt is where the real judgement on SF can begin as regards running the country.
It's probably going to happen, if they don't chicken out themselves, and I'm not sure they won't again either.

I think going into a coalition as the junior party with FF or FG would be political suicide for the party, much like any other time a party has gone into government with them.

SF going into government as the larger party? I still can't see a way it doesn't result in them haemorrhaging votes when their, 'it'll all be sunshine and rainbows' cohort of voters realise that they can't fix all of our ills and pay for it with hopes and dreams. Even if they manage to make some positive changes, there'll certainly be a significant number who'll move on to the next perceived anti-establishment party. They're more vulnerable to an absolute seismic collapse into oblivion than FF/FG as they're trailing miles behind them both with regards to the numbers of generational voters who vote that way because their parents did, who do so because their parents did and so on and so forth without ever actually looking at a single policy.

nigeldaniel

In relation to Sf taking out adds in the US forcing the issue of a United Ireland, and incurring social unrest to that end, I half wager that there are busybodies in Belfast learning from Red Square in China on how to do things. The next stage will be memos posted to all Sf TDs on how to answer the likely question they will face on the matter. Media training never ends for some. Sf's dream seems to be chaos and anarchy, even if they don't realise it themselves. The Ultra left are often like this.

Fionn1952

nigeldaniel wrote: »

In relation to Sf taking out adds in the US forcing the issue of a United Ireland, and incurring social unrest to that end, I half wager that there are busybodies in Belfast learning from Red Square in China on how to do things. The next stage will be memos posted to all Sf TDs on how to answer the likely question they will face on the matter. Media training never ends for some. Sf's dream seems to be chaos and anarchy, even if they don't realise it themselves. The Ultra left are often like this.

Funnily enough one poster was complaining that SF weren't really lefties.....now we have another complaining that they're ultra left. Schrodinger's Lefties? (I'll leave that one wide open).

Perhaps as much as they try to be all-things-to-all-men when trying to appeal to their voters, their opponents can be just as bad for doing the equal opposite.

jh79

Bishop of hope wrote: »

And that's the problem of trying to form a "left" govt here.
Sinn Feins main problem is that the "real left" find them untouchable too.
If they compromise with either FF or FG it could be regarded as a sell out to their new voters.
Going forward and perhaps a term in govt is where the real judgement on SF can begin as regards running the country.
It's probably going to happen, if they don't chicken out themselves, and I'm not sure they won't again either.

Strange that they got their friends to take out ads looking for the government to prepare for a UI when they should be in government before the end of the year!

Fann Linn

The Shinners ads have hit a nerve around here. Keep it up.

landofthetree

They hate free speech.

A cartoon of Martin McGuinness digging up Bobby Sands and ****ing his skeleton would be banned under them.

Cry babies.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Let's move on from the hilarious replacement of RTE coverage of the British Royall Family with coverage of the British national sports and turn our attention to something more serious - the brazen attempts of Sinn Fein to foster and encourage foreign interference in domestic politics.

https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2021/0310/1203044-sinn-fein-us-adverts/

"Sinn Féin has taken out adverts in a number of US newspapers calling for the Irish Government to prepare and plan for a united Ireland."

When the Irish government seeks the assistance of the diaspora in the US, it is with a view to putting pressure on the British government or on terrorist organisations in the North, it is never about interfering in our own domestic politics. This blatant attempt to secure foreign influence on domestic politics is another nefarious low for Sinn Fein.

Why do we send a Taoiseach to the Whitehouse every Paddy's day? I heard it helped with colouring U.S. policy and engendered good will on behalf of Irish/American trade and any Irish citizens working undocumented and the like?

It's been a tradition since the days of De Valera right up to Varadkar trying to get Clare CoCo to do Trump a solid.
We've Fine Gael using the British Conservative spin doctors to help influence Irish elections on their behalf.
The only difference is you don't like shinners.

The usual low.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Are you saying that none of the organisations have any links with Sinn Fein?

Do you agree with the attempts (from whoever they are) from afar to interfere in Irish domestic politics?

FG advisers meet top Tories to run rule over election tactics

A "blatant attempt to secure foreign influence on domestic politics is another nefarious low"?

US donors gave Fianna Fáil nearly $1.3 million

Six members of the Young Fine Gael national executive have demanded a “full explanation” from the group’s president after he attended a conference organised by a right-wing conservative youth group in the US.

Do you agree with the attempts (from whoever they are) from afar to interfere in Irish domestic politics?

But this is different because.....you don't like shinners.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

And that's the problem of trying to form a "left" govt here.
Sinn Feins main problem is that the "real left" find them untouchable too.
If they compromise with either FF or FG it could be regarded as a sell out to their new voters.
Going forward and perhaps a term in govt is where the real judgement on SF can begin as regards running the country.
It's probably going to happen, if they don't chicken out themselves, and I'm not sure they won't again either.

I dunno, the general public seem fond of them.

McMurphy

Good old Leo walked into a lovely self made haymaker today again I see.

We see the same spiel in here from a certain cohort, trying the sectarian/misogyny/racism spiel.

Of all TDs, your woman Violet Anne had to put Leo back in his box, resulting in him having to issue an apology, and then ram on the reverse alarm!

Varadkar 'stands corrected' on claim Sinn Féin has no Protestant TDs

Violet Anne Wynne wrote:

"Leo Varadkar's constant attempts to score political points by spouting untruths and trying to demonise political opponents is getting tiresome,” she said.

"While nobody in Sinn Féin has ever made an issue of my religious views, it is not acceptable for the Tánaiste to do so.

What an absolute bellend. He really is hell bent on creating divisional America style politics here.

Great to see him taken down a peg or two.

Del.Monte

She not much of an example of a typical Protestant having received her education at two Roman Catholic schools: St Colman's National School in Tullamore, County Offaly and the Coláiste Muire in Blakestown according to Wiki. Still, I'm sure she will get out the big Protestant vote in Co.Clare.

McMurphy

Del.Monte wrote: »

She not much of an example of a typical Protestant having received her education at two Roman Catholic schools: St Colman's National School in Tullamore, County Offaly and the Coláiste Muire in Blakestown according to Wiki. Still, I'm sure she will get out the big Protestant vote in Co.Clare.

She's not Protestant enough is it?

There's Protestant, not to mention Orthodox Christians, Muslims and Sikhs attending the same Catholic school as my kids btw, others than them not making their communion or confirmation with the other kids, I don't see what the difference is anyway.

Their religion, race or sex doesn't define them.

Leo is yet again trying to score points on religion, race or sexualities. It's a recurring theme.

Brendan Bendar

When did she join up.......this morning....