The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

bobbysands81

smurgen wrote: »

No but I think there's extreme double standards applied. The kids gloves are on in this thread for horrendous comments and accusations. Everything from weight discussions and murder with no support. Yet calling a politician current investigation in another thread a corrupt crony will get you a thread ban.

It’s hard to disagree with any of that.

batman75

bobbysands81 wrote: »

If you look back you’ll see that you conveniently ignored the question when I previously put it to you.

I think you’re getting a bit mixed up between “cause” and “effect” here. See, if Ireland hadn’t had been invaded, if her people hadn’t had been murdered, subjugated, had rights taken away, had rights refused, tortured, lived in a gerrymandered state etc... ad nauseum, and if these people hadn’t been ignored by successive Governments that your pals had formed, then the apartheid style state in the north that led to all this would never had happened.

To make it easy for you, the violence in the north is caused solely as a political vacuum was allowed to fester by the British Government propped up aided and abetted by your pals in the Irish Government.

The way you’re talking it’s as if none of the above happened! You’re blaming the symptom instead of the disease. Tackle the disease and there are no symptoms but your conscience is probably a little clearer if you blame the victims of imperialism instead of imperialism itself.

You take away the reasons for war and there is no war.

Given that the IRA campaign was about a united Ireland and the removal of British presence on the island surely the campaign was a failure. All those lives and destruction caused for nothing. Surely Sinn Fein accepting the GFI was them acknowledging that the IRA campaign had failed?

Natterjack from Kerry

Doesitmatter21 wrote: »

What murder charge was he convicted off?

This man has raised his first prefernce votes in elections by 20,000 in 20 years. It seems most people outside FFFG accept the GFA are are willing to move on

Not convicted, fair enough. But part of the murderous SF/IRA machine.

Exactly - move on. Leave the terrorists behind. Thats moving one. Keeping them as baggage is not.

NovemberWren

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Ifou.

, subjugated, had rights taken away, had rights refused, tortured, lived in a gerrymandered state etc... ad nauseum, and if these people hadn’t been ignored by successive Governments that your pals had formed, then the apartheid style state in the north that led to all this would never had happened.

The way you’re talking it’s as if none of the above happened! You’re blaming the symptom instead of the disease. Tackle the disease and there are no symptoms but

'gerrymandered' state - LOL. What do you think the Irish in the South were living with?
And, Sinn Fein now in the South, are dug-in to gerrymandering schematics here now (+ persuading other, rotten, Councillors to go along with this). The carve-up is stunning.

Sinn Fein assiduously practise the 'disease' that you speak of above - Here, and now.

bobbysands81

NovemberWren wrote: »

'gerrymandered' state - LOL. What do you think the Irish in the South were living with?
And, Sinn Fein now in the South, are dug-in to gerrymandering schematics here now (+ persuading other, rotten, Councillors to go along with this). The carve-up is stunning.

Sinn Fein assiduously practise the 'disease' that you speak of above - Here, and now.

In the South? As in Cork/Kerry region?

The grubby little statelet was in itself carved up to ensure that it would remain British, voting was initially limited to very few and then electoral areas drawn up in a way that would intentionally ensure under representation of a minority. This happened up the north and not down in the Republic.

I await your condemnation.

bobbysands81

batman75 wrote: »

Given that the IRA campaign was about a united Ireland and the removal of British presence on the island surely the campaign was a failure. All those lives and destruction caused for nothing. Surely Sinn Fein accepting the GFI was them acknowledging that the IRA campaign had failed?

That’s right, the trouble on this island started and was maintained not by the Brits invading but the natives fighting back. How dare we fight back.

batman75

bobbysands81 wrote: »

That’s right, the trouble on this island started and was maintained not by the Brits invading but the natives fighting back. How dare we fight back.

That's an interesting take on my post

Britain was well in control of the North by the time the modern troubles kicked off in 1969 so it wasn't like the IRA were fighting a British invasion but more occupation. Anyone with a percent of a brain knew that Britain was never going to be shot and bombed out of Northern Ireland. It is true that atrocities were committed by all sides but only one side did it in the name of the Irish people.

What does puzzle me is that the IRA saw themselves as defenders of the Catholic community yet the Shankill Butchers were able to massacre Catholics for years before Lenny Murphy was finally killed. Even then, by some accounts, there was collusion with loyalists paramilitaries in his assassination. Ultimately the butchers were only stopped because one poor soul, whom they left for dead, actually survived.

The best that can be said about the carnage the IRA caused is that it maybe led to a better treatment of Catholics in the North. The campaign failed in its aims to the point where SF participated in power sharing with the Unionists in Stormont. I can understand why Brendan Hughes saw the GFI as a sell out. Ultimately though I think for the peace that has sustained since it was worth it. I would like to see a united Ireland once it was by consensus.

markodaly

bobbysands81 wrote: »

See, if Ireland hadn’t had been invaded,

Ah the old 800 years nonsense. You do know it was French speaking normans that invaded us, right? Not 'da brits'. The Vikings had their time as well before that.

To make it easy for you, the violence in the north is caused solely as a political vacuum was allowed to fester by the British Government propped up aided and abetted by your pals in the Irish Government.

The violence in the North was perpetuated by people who caused violence. Irish Republicans and Loyalists alike. Trying to blame some pattern in history because Irish Republicans killed 4 times as many innocent civilians as the British Security forces, is just a Gobbels type of revisionism. At least own it, and own the fact it was all for nothing.

The way you’re talking it’s as if none of the above happened! You’re blaming the symptom instead of the disease.

I'm blaming the people who planted bombs and murdered people. Are you saying people had no free will or free agency? Not every Catholic or Nationalist joined the PIRA, in fact they were a very small minority group.

UDAWINNER

FFG Bots out in full force, must be getting paid overtime. Not like leo is under Criminal Investigation but its ok he done it in the public interest. If this was any other thread about any other party, certain comments would deleted and posters would be banned. Make libelous accusations about other Parties and the Mods would delete them quickly, but not here, strange.

Brendan Bendar

UDAWINNER wrote: »

FFG Bots out in full force, must be getting paid overtime. Not like leo is under Criminal Investigation but its ok he done it in the public interest. If this was any other thread about any other party, certain comments would deleted and posters would be banned. Make libelous accusations about other Parties and the Mods would delete them quickly, but not here, strange.

Have you evidence and proof of that?

Baggly

UDAWINNER wrote: »

FFG Bots out in full force, must be getting paid overtime. Not like leo is under Criminal Investigation but its ok he done it in the public interest. If this was any other thread about any other party, certain comments would deleted and posters would be banned. Make libelous accusations about other Parties and the Mods would delete them quickly, but not here, strange.

Mod

Dont post in this thread again

bobbysands81

markodaly wrote: »

Ah the old 800 years nonsense. You do know it was French speaking normans that invaded us, right? Not 'da brits'. The Vikings had their time as well before that.



The violence in the North was perpetuated by people who caused violence. Irish Republicans and Loyalists alike. Trying to blame some pattern in history because Irish Republicans killed 4 times as many innocent civilians as the British Security forces, is just a Gobbels type of revisionism. At least own it, and own the fact it was all for nothing.



I'm blaming the people who planted bombs and murdered people. Are you saying people had no free will or free agency? Not every Catholic or Nationalist joined the PIRA, in fact they were a very small minority group.

What a strange outlook. You want to blame the Vikings and Normans for invading the country and make it sound like centuries of British misrule, murder, sectarianism, denial of rights etc... was as much to do with them then it was the British state... all recently aided by successive Govts made up of your party... all the time “pretending” that the Brits had no part to play whilst blaming Irish people for wanting their own country back?

Strange strange views.

Baggly

Mod

As ALWAYS folks, if you have an issue with a post, report it.

markodaly

bobbysands81 wrote: »

What a strange outlook. You want to blame the Vikings and Normans for invading the country and make it sound like centuries of British misrule, murder, sectarianism, denial of rights etc... was as much to do with them then it was the British state... all recently aided by successive Govts made up of your party... all the time “pretending” that the Brits had no part to play whilst blaming Irish people for wanting their own country back?

Strange strange views.

So when exactly did the British invade us?

Year and date would suffice.

padd b1975

NovemberWren wrote: »

i don't remember it very well, but in 1990s SF in central Dublin mobbed people out of their homes, if they were drug addicts.
Who moved into those very central Dublin dwellings?

Pushers, Out.
Sinn Fein, - In.

Lol.

Pushers out unless you're willing to give a few bob "for the cause".

Terry136

padd b1975 wrote: »

Lol.

Pushers out unless you're willing to give a few bob "for the cause".

That's a lie it wasn't Sinn Fein it was a group set up in the 80s during the heroin epidemic a survey show ten percent of young people aged 15-25 were addicted to heroin.

Out of all of this emerged protest and opposition, coming originally from a somewhat unlikely source. Fr Jim Smyth, a Jesuit priest working in Dublin’s north inner-city, was perhaps not typical of a street-protest champion. But he lived in the Hardwicke Street flats, and witnessed the reality of addiction first-hand.

Fr Smyth set the ball in motion, calling meetings of residents in 1982, which attracted the mothers and fathers of those dealing with issues of addiction.

IRA/SF gave support and protection to the group after being asked by a priest in the organisation due to a lack of resources and the threat of violence against its members by the drug dealers.

It was said that what the group were doing was wrong, was vigilantism and should be left to the guards but when ten percent of young people are addicted to heroin maybe it's time to take action yourself.

Say what you want about the IRAs policy on drugs back then but the Catholic areas in the North were almost completely free from drugs during the worst drug epidemic in our history, the death and despair of the heroin epidemic in the 80s and 90s never came to the Catholic areas of the North.

wicklowstevo

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

Mod

You claim baseless accusations are wrong, yet make some of your own.

Provide verifiable proof, or don't make these claims.

No problem

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/16/sinn-fein-election-success-tainted-past

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-sinn-fein-td-who-is-linked-to-50-murders-28951973.html

https://www.thesun.ie/archives/irish-news/18556/sinn-fein-chiefs-pal-link-to-rape/

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/paudie-mcgahons-ira-abuser-raped-boy-in-dublin-31067313.html

blanch152

Terry136 wrote: »

That's a lie it wasn't Sinn Fein it was a group set up in the 80s during the heroin epidemic a survey show ten percent of young people aged 15-25 were addicted to heroin.

Out of all of this emerged protest and opposition, coming originally from a somewhat unlikely source. Fr Jim Smyth, a Jesuit priest working in Dublin’s north inner-city, was perhaps not typical of a street-protest champion. But he lived in the Hardwicke Street flats, and witnessed the reality of addiction first-hand.

Fr Smyth set the ball in motion, calling meetings of residents in 1982, which attracted the mothers and fathers of those dealing with issues of addiction.

IRA/SF gave support and protection to the group after being asked by a priest in the organisation due to a lack of resources and the threat of violence against its members by the drug dealers.

It was said that what the group were doing was wrong, was vigilantism and should be left to the guards but when ten percent of young people are addicted to heroin maybe it's time to take action yourself.

Say what you want about the IRAs policy on drugs back then but the Catholic areas in the North were almost completely free from drugs during the worst drug epidemic in our history, the death and despair of the heroin epidemic in the 80s and 90s never came to the Catholic areas of the North.

The kneecapping of vulnerable people who became addicted to heroin was a different kind of despair that the IRA brought.

blanch152

wicklowstevo wrote: »

No problem

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/16/sinn-fein-election-success-tainted-past

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-sinn-fein-td-who-is-linked-to-50-murders-28951973.html

https://www.thesun.ie/archives/irish-news/18556/sinn-fein-chiefs-pal-link-to-rape/

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/paudie-mcgahons-ira-abuser-raped-boy-in-dublin-31067313.html

A very stark collection of articles.

"An IRA team dragged the widow from her screaming children, shot her and buried her at a beach in county Louth, south of the border. Not wanting blame for creating 10 orphans, republicans spread a rumour McConville had abandoned her children and moved to England with a British soldier."

This account of what happened to Jean McConville is particularly haunting, while the accounts of the organised cover-up of child and sexual abuse makes for very difficult reading.

James Brown

NovemberWren wrote: »

i don't remember it very well, but in 1990s SF in central Dublin mobbed people out of their homes, if they were drug addicts.
Who moved into those very central Dublin dwellings?

Pushers, Out.
Sinn Fein, - In.

What are you claiming, junkies were removed and SF members given their house/flat? Have you any back up for this?

Do you know pushers and junkies are not necessarily the same thing?
I remember 'pushers out' and junkies being a figure of pity and shame mostly. I remember local vigilante groups made up of residents. I remember the Garda refusing to enter some areas.
No recollection of SF being involved, no more than local councillors of different stripes.
Is this just another one of those claims people post?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

A very stark collection of articles.

"An IRA team dragged the widow from her screaming children, shot her and buried her at a beach in county Louth, south of the border. Not wanting blame for creating 10 orphans, republicans spread a rumour McConville had abandoned her children and moved to England with a British soldier."

This account of what happened to Jean McConville is particularly haunting, while the accounts of the organised cover-up of child and sexual abuse makes for very difficult reading.

Who had 'Jean McConville' in the troubles bingo?

Do you feel any political party who are shown to have played a role in covering up for or turning a blind eye to systemic child abuse should be held to account? I do.

Ten of Swords

Natterjack from Kerry do not post in this thread again

Terry136

blanch152 wrote: »

The kneecapping of vulnerable people who became addicted to heroin was a different kind of despair that the IRA brought.

That's not true either they only went after the drug dealers they didn't kneecap people just because they were addicted to drugs if they did then it was because they were involved in some sort of criminality as well.

You would literally hardly see any drug addicts around in them areas anyway.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

The kneecapping of vulnerable people who became addicted to heroin was a different kind of despair that the IRA brought.

Thats not how the people involved saw it. Really informative ''Documenary at One'' will explain a lot to you about that period, including how the Gardai were not interested in doing anything about the drug problem in the inner city and it was the parents of addicts got the IRA involved.

She had been part of a group called Ballybough Against Drugs, which started in 1996. It had been started because the local residents in Ballybough were so exasperated by the level of crime and drug-dealing that was happening in the community that they went to meet with the Gardaí in Fitzgibbon Street. But the Garda they met there told them that there wasn’t really a problem and not to worry about it - that they had it all under control. Maura says they left the station feeling two inches high.

I suggest you read the summary and then listen to it first of all before making stupid claims like the above.


https://www.rte.ie/culture/2020/0709/1152404-documentary-on-one-the-untold-story-of-irelands-war-on-drugs/

blanch152

jm08 wrote: »

Thats not how the people involved saw it. Really informative ''Documenary at One'' will explain a lot to you about that period, including how the Gardai were not interested in doing anything about the drug problem in the inner city and it was the parents of addicts got the IRA involved.








I suggest you read the summary and then listen to it first of all before making stupid claims like the above.


https://www.rte.ie/culture/2020/0709/1152404-documentary-on-one-the-untold-story-of-irelands-war-on-drugs/

When did Ballybough secede and become part of the North?

My comments related to the history of PIRA abusive control of certain areas in the North. I was responding to a poster who claimed that "the Catholic areas in the North were almost completely free from drugs during the worst drug epidemic in our history, the death and despair of the heroin epidemic in the 80s and 90s never came to the Catholic areas of the North."

That certainly wasn't true. If you want an insight into some of the ugliest and desperate acts of the PIRA, have a read of this:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272886022_The_Lords_of_Discipline_The_Methods_and_Motives_of_Paramilitary_Vigilantism_in_Northern_Ireland

The matter-of-fact nature of the publication adds to the horrors contained within.

"John Collett, a36-year-old Derry man, was shot in both legs at his home by an IRA punishment squad in 1992. He managed to crawl to his front door where he was eventually found by a neighbour. In an effort to save his life both of Collett's legs were amputated, however he died in hospital a few days later."

How people defend this kind of behaviour is beyond me.

blanch152

Terry136 wrote: »

That's not true either they only went after the drug dealers they didn't kneecap people just because they were addicted to drugs if they did then it was because they were involved in some sort of criminality as well.

You would literally hardly see any drug addicts around in them areas anyway.

They certainly weren't rehabilitated, if you were beaten within an inch of your life or kneecapped with a drug addiction, you would move on. If you didn't move on, you were disappeared.

That is no basis for claiming those areas as drug-free, that is a horrific way to treat people.

batman75

blanch152 wrote: »

A very stark collection of articles.

"An IRA team dragged the widow from her screaming children, shot her and buried her at a beach in county Louth, south of the border. Not wanting blame for creating 10 orphans, republicans spread a rumour McConville had abandoned her children and moved to England with a British soldier."

This account of what happened to Jean McConville is particularly haunting, while the accounts of the organised cover-up of child and sexual abuse makes for very difficult reading.

What makes the McConville murder all the more nauseating is how Stakeknife has been treated. This was a man in charge of the nutting squad. This squad basically punished IRA operatives who were passing on info to the Brits. Stakeknife was a British agent himself! Apparently if the IRA murdered him it would be a public admission that he was a double agent. Yet they had no problem orphaning 10 children. Rancid shower of b*stards.

Terry136

blanch152 wrote: »

They certainly weren't rehabilitated, if you were beaten within an inch of your life or kneecapped with a drug addiction, you would move on. If you didn't move on, you were disappeared.

That is no basis for claiming those areas as drug-free, that is a horrific way to treat people.

I can't reply to your previous post because I can't post links but it's easy to justify that behaviour in Northern Ireland at the time as adequate policing was not a possibility due to the conflict.

The man they done that to in 1992 was a serial child molester having abused numerous children and people in the area victims came out about the abuse and the victims and the families were threatened by him concerned for their safety they went to the IRA as was the common thing to do in them areas, he got what he deserved I'm surprised they were going to let him off with a kneecapping unless they purposely done the kneecapping wrong knowing he would bleed to death and if they did that then.... Fair play to them he was a sick twisted individual he got no more than what he gave not only did he rape young children but threatened their lives when they tried to get help.

Google John collette IRA independent.co.uk

batman75

Terry136 wrote: »

I can't reply to your previous post because I can't post links but it's easy to justify that behaviour in Northern Ireland at the time as adequate policing was not a possibility due to the conflict.

The man they done that to in 1992 was a serial child molester having abused numerous children and people in the area victims came out about the abuse and the victims and the families were threatened by him concerned for their safety they went to the IRA as was the common thing to do in them areas, he got what he deserved I'm surprised they were going to let him off with a kneecapping unless they purposely done the kneecapping wrong knowing he would bleed to death and if they did that then.... Fair play to them he was a sick twisted individual he got no more than what he gave not only did he rape young children but threatened their lives when they tried to get help.

Google John collette IRA independent.co.uk

I understand your thinking however is it right to bypass the law like that. Who gives these men the right to play judge and jury. Sex offenders, especially paedophiles are the worst of the worst and I hate them with a passion. What happened to Mairia Cahill was just awful where she was made to face her abuser by the IRA. That's sick beyond any logic.

jm08

batman75 wrote: »

I understand your thinking however is it right to bypass the law like that. Who gives these men the right to play judge and jury. Sex offenders, especially paedophiles are the worst of the worst and I hate them with a passion. What happened to Mairia Cahill was just awful where she was made to face her abuser by the IRA. That's sick beyond any logic.

I think you should read the history of John Collet history and what he inflicted on the local community. As well as that, he had been a member of INLA.



How he could come back and be in the same housing estate where he abused so many children is just unbelievable.


Here is a link to that article in the UK Independent by Eamon McCann.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/john-collet-was-buried-last-week-he-had-been-shot-by-the-ira-few-mourned-his-passing-eamonn-mccann-reports-on-the-cruel-but-apparently-popular-justice-dispensed-in-the-bogside-1564753.html