The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't form my opinions about a right to defend yourself from Greenslade.

I always knew he was sympathetic to SF, just as I recognise that other journalists are sympathetic to the Tories, Labour, FF, FG etc etc.

What did Greenslade write that is 'discredited'? Can you give examples?

The Guardian have apologised to Mairia Cahill about the article he wrote about her, the article that is the basis of the now discredited dissident allegations.

Maria Cahill is from West Belfast Republican royalty. She was raped by a man well known to men like Gerry Adams, Bobby Storey, and Gerry Kelly. Instead of going to the police she was told to visit a smokey room above a pub in Belfast. There her rapist apologised and she was told to say no more about it.

SF have absolutely nothing to say about women's rights. Male SF supporters on sites like here and Twitter who try to muddy the pond on this are doing so because they care more for their party than they do for the voices of women.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The Guardian have apologised to Mairia Cahill about the article he wrote about her, the article that is the basis of the now discredited dissident allegations.

So, you should be able to quote what is 'discredited'....go ahead.

maccored

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you read every piece of legislation and bill before you form an opinion on it? I trust these folks called journalists to synopsise news items for me so I can form opinions on them. Saves a lot of time tbh.

personally I try to - or find a reliable opinion. newspapers dont supply that. You've admitted that basically anyone who agrees with your dislike is good enough for you. Ive higher standards than that

maccored

maccored wrote: »

personally I try to - or find a reliable opinion. newspapers dont supply that. You've admitted that basically anyone who agrees with your dislike is good enough for you. Ive higher standards than that

Any examples of where someone could find these reliable opinions?


SF abstained in a vote yesterday where one of the most conservative political parties in Europe put forward a bill to pull back on reproductive rights for women in NI.



That is what happened. Pro-choice in the South, and conservative bed fellows of the DUP up North. Are SF a pro-choice party or not?

Bubbaclaus

Are SF aware that 'Leader of the Oppostion' is a role in Westminster (currently Keir Starmer) and isn't a thing in Ireland? Strange to see them referring to it today.

https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1371866810283401217?s=19

jm08

rdwight wrote: »

The spoofers are most likely the party who take a very clear line in the debate and then decline to back their words with their votes

I think you haven't a clue what you are talking about here.


Here is a link to the debate on the Severe Fetal Impairment Abortion (Amendment) Bill so that you can educate yourself.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2021-03-15.9.1&s=shared+parenting


The Bill is framed in such a way as that if anyone objects to it, they will be framed as killing Down Syndrome children. If you support the Bill, you are framed as removing Women's Human Rights, so basically, you can't win.


There is little point in going down any route, because if passed committee stage, it will be overturned by the Secretary of State if it is not in line with the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (which it isn't). The British Gov. has already been found to have been in breach of it.

bobbysands81

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Are SF aware that 'Leader of the Oppostion' is a role in Westminster (currently Keir Starmer) and isn't a thing in Ireland? Strange to see them referring to it today.

https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1371866810283401217?s=19

Of things that I’ve heard people complain about regarding Sinn Féin, this is one of the most ridiculous!!!

Scraping the barrel.

Here’s Leo expecting he’ll be leader of the opposition - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-expects-to-be-leader-of-the-opposition-in-the-new-d%25C3%25A1il-1.4171351%3fmode=amp

The Indo describing Micheal as leader of the opposition - https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/micheal-martin-fianna-fail-leader-who-withstood-backlash-from-his-own-party-38939307.html

A Wikipedia page on Ireland’s Leaders of the Opposition going all the way back to 1922 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leader_of_the_Opposition_(Ireland)

But yup, it’s obviously a Sinn Féin makey uppy construct!!!

James Brown

rdwight wrote: »

Are we being a tad disingenuous here, JB? As you well know, my views on the bill are irrelevant here.

The issue is that SF vehemently criticised the bill and then were too cowardly to take the responsibility to vote against it.

I wouldn't be posting on this topic if the shinners had voted against the bill or for it. It is the hypocrisy of opposing the bill so forcefully in words and then abstaining that is the issue.

You are criticising a stance taken on a bill you don't know anything about.

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Are SF aware that 'Leader of the Oppostion' is a role in Westminster (currently Keir Starmer) and isn't a thing in Ireland? Strange to see them referring to it today.

https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1371866810283401217?s=19

Jaysus is there no bottom to the barrel?
It's accepted and known that the largest party in opposition is the opposition ffs...

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

The Guardian have apologised to Mairia Cahill about the article he wrote about her, the article that is the basis of the now discredited dissident allegations.

Its discredited only because he didn't disclose that he supported the IRA. According to the Irish Times:


''In a news article for the Guardian’s media section, Mr Greenslade said the documentary had failed to disclose that Ms Cahill remained a member of Sinn Féin until 2007 and that she joined a republican splinter group afterwards.


Mr Greenslade concluded: “The feeling lingers that the programme was flawed by being overly one-sided. Cahill’s political stance should have been explored more fully.”


Is it true that she remained a member of SF up to 2007 and did she join a dissident republican group in 2010?


I see David Norris had question marks about her membership of a dissident republican organisation when seeking election to the Senate when nominated by the Labour Party.


Mairia Cahill's real beef should be with the PSNI and the Northern Ireland Director of Prosecutions. She also took a case against the British Gov. over the requirement to publish your home address when seeking election to Stormont Assembly. Fair play to her for doing that, but the people who really let her down were the PSNI and legal system in Northern Ireland.

jm08

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Are SF aware that 'Leader of the Oppostion' is a role in Westminster (currently Keir Starmer) and isn't a thing in Ireland? Strange to see them referring to it today.

https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1371866810283401217?s=19

I think you are getting confused by the fact that there was no opposition in the last 2 governments because of the Confidence and Supply arrangement between Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.


Prior to that arrangement, there was usually an ''Opposition''.

NovemberWren

Deleted User wrote: »

Maria Cahill is from West Belfast Republican royalty. She was raped by a man well known to men like Gerry Adams, Bobby Storey, and Gerry Kelly. Instead of going to the police she was told to visit a smokey room above a pub in Belfast. There her rapist apologised and she was told to say no more about it.

SF have absolutely nothing to say about women's rights. Male SF supporters on sites like here and Twitter who try to muddy the pond on this are doing so because they care more for their party than they do for the voices of women.

really do not know the history of s.f. But the above, seems accurate. And for m.cahill, seems suffocatingly sad. Owned, s.f.communally, like a farm thing.

translate that to other environments, housing, business. no one can have anything because s.f., especially? in the south, consider themselves fighter, army invaders to whom all the spoils in all the areas of the South, housing, business; are their due.

NovemberWren

jm08 wrote: »

Mairia Cahill's real beef should be with the PSNI and the Northern Ireland Director of Prosecutions. She also took a case against the British Gov. over the requirement to publish your home address when seeking election to Stormont Assembly. Fair play to her for doing that, but the people who really let her down were the PSNI and legal system in Northern Ireland.

And also maybe the political system, the political parties. And what salaries do the PSNI receive.

James Brown

James Brown wrote: »

You are criticising a stance taken on a bill you don't know anything about.

What parts of the bill should he criticise?

bobbysands81

Leo leaks a contract to his pal... it’s all Sinn Féin’s fault!!!

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/?s=08#/radio1/21924573

Fine Gael are rattling on this.

Bubbaclaus

James Brown wrote: »

Jaysus is there no bottom to the barrel?
It's accepted and known that the largest party in opposition is the opposition ffs...

You seem very worked up mate, are you alright? I'm just wondering why they seem to be using the term and thinking there is some special privilege that comes with it, when their isn't.

There is no such thing as 'Leader of the Opposition in Ireland. McDonald seems to think the Taoiseach is required to answer her because of her role, based on what she was saying yesterday, except there is no such role in the Constitution. She has the same right to a response from the Taoiseach as any other TD in the Dail, nothing more or less. Very different to the Leader of the Opposition that other countries have, such as in Westminster.

Gary Gannon of the SDs seems to have find it odd also. Clearly he sees it as disrespectful to the SDs and other parties not in Government.

https://twitter.com/GaryGannonTD/status/1371927948828246028?s=19

As does journalist Ronan Duffy

https://twitter.com/ronanduffy_/status/1371930512646930432?s=19

nigeldaniel

Sf and Mary L know very well there is no leader of the opposition here. They just jump up and down like this saying things that big them up. It's handy for their hardcore support base. I would not be surprised if the statement Mary L readout was written up in Belfast. Its all about maintaining a front-page presence and been on TV as much as possible. Same reason why they [SF] also like those motions of no confidence. I would imagine a good number of Sf TDs and keyed off by Mary L at this stage but will never ever say so.

bobbysands81

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

You seem very worked up mate, are you alright? I'm just wondering why they seem to be using the term and thinking there is some special privilege that comes with it, when their isn't.

There is no such thing as 'Leader of the Opposition in Ireland. McDonald seems to think the Taoiseach is required to answer her because of her role, based on what she was saying yesterday, except there is no such role in the Constitution. She has the same right to a response from the Taoiseach as any other TD in the Dail, nothing more or less. Very different to the Leader of the Opposition that other countries have, such as in Westminster.

Gary Gannon of the SDs seems to have find it odd also. Clearly he sees it as disrespectful to the SDs and other parties not in Government.

https://twitter.com/GaryGannonTD/status/1371927948828246028?s=19

As does journalist Ronan Duffy

https://twitter.com/ronanduffy_/status/1371930512646930432?s=19

You must have missed my post on this, you know the post where the term goes back to 1922 and gives examples of other leaders of the opposition who are now in Government using it.

Some would any use stick to bash Sinn Féin with... even imaginary sticks.

Finty Lemon

Leader of the Opposition, Co- First Minister etc.
What is the deal with all these made-up titles that SF give themselves? Quartermaster general, there's one of them still knocking around too.
It's almost Scientology-level self aggrandisement.

CDarby

Both Enda Kenny and Michael Martin described themselves as 'leader of opposition' and did not Leo initially say himself he wanted to go off in a sulk and lead the opposition when he and his party got handed their cards last time out?
Suddenly that term is offensive or made up because it's Mary Lou McDonald's right to use it?

Jaysis, I know the state isn't familiar with having an actual opposition, but now we have one, some folk have issue with the leader describing themselves as such?

And for the record, I wouldn't vote for them just yet, they've a while to go in my books before I'd consider them, but whining about their rise is seriously stupid and head in the sand stuff.

FrancieBrady

CDarby wrote: »

Both Ends Kenny and Michael Martin described themselves as 'leader of opposition' and did not Leo initially say himself he wanted to go off in a sulk and lead the opposition when he and his party got handed their cards last time out?
Suddenly that term is offensive or made up because it's Mary Lou McDonald's right to use it?

Jaysis, I know the state isn't familiar with having an actual opposition, but now we have one, some folk have issue with the leader describing themselves as such?

And for the record, I wouldn't vote for them just yet, they've a while to go in my books before I'd consider them, but whining about their rise is seriously stupid and head in the sand stuff.

Arrogance is the answer. FG in particular haven't gotten over the fact that SF are knocking at the gate and the cosy little 100 yr old power swap is over. Or they have realised it and are angry about it.

bobbysands81

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Leader of the Opposition, Co- First Minister etc.
What is the deal with all these made-up titles that SF give themselves? Quartermaster general, there's one of them still knocking around too.
It's almost Scientology-level self aggrandisement.

Here we go again... it’s a term in use since 1922!!!

The boogeyman is alive and well!!!

maccored

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any examples of where someone could find these reliable opinions?


SF abstained in a vote yesterday where one of the most conservative political parties in Europe put forward a bill to pull back on reproductive rights for women in NI.



That is what happened. Pro-choice in the South, and conservative bed fellows of the DUP up North. Are SF a pro-choice party or not?

If you need someone to teach you these kind of things, an internet forum isnt the place. You keep on getting your info from newspapers.

rdwight

jm08 wrote: »

I think you haven't a clue what you are talking about here.


Here is a link to the debate on the Severe Fetal Impairment Abortion (Amendment) Bill so that you can educate yourself.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2021-03-15.9.1&s=shared+parenting


The Bill is framed in such a way as that if anyone objects to it, they will be framed as killing Down Syndrome children. If you support the Bill, you are framed as removing Women's Human Rights, so basically, you can't win.


There is little point in going down any route, because if passed committee stage, it will be overturned by the Secretary of State if it is not in line with the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (which it isn't). The British Gov. has already been found to have been in breach of it.

Thanks for the useful link, jm.

I read the SF contributions carefully and chunks of the rest of the debate. It turns out the media reported the proceedings accurately.

Each SF speaker opposed the bill, often in strong language. They made it quite clear why they wouldn't be voting for the bill. They gave no reasons for refusing to vote against it.

Bubbaclaus

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You must have missed my post on this, you know the post where the term goes back to 1922 and gives examples of other leaders of the opposition who are now in Government using it.

Some would any use stick to bash Sinn Féin with... even imaginary sticks.

You seemed to have ignored the main part of my post, but that's to be expected i suppose. Point being that Mary Lou seems to think she has some special role which requires a response from the Taoiseach. But that isn't the case as this isn't Westminster, and there is no such role with such rights here.

The Taoiseach is required to respond to McDonald as much as he is required to respond to Danny Healy Rae. It's a multi party Republic here.

That is the point that Gary Gannon of the SDs is making.

Bubbaclaus

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Arrogance is the answer. FG in particular haven't gotten over the fact that SF are knocking at the gate and the cosy little 100 yr old power swap is over. Or they have realised it and are angry about it.

Who are you accusing of being arrogant here? I'm not sure what relevance FG have here either, I haven't seen any FG members commenting on it. Gary Gannon is SD not FG, just in case you are confused.

CDarby

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

You seemed to have ignored the main part of my post, but that's to be expected i suppose. Point being that Mary Lou seems to think she has some special role which requires a response from the Taoiseach. But that isn't the case as this isn't Westminster, and there is no such role with such rights here.

The Taoiseach is required to respond to McDonald as much as he is required to respond to Danny Healy Rae. It's a multi party Republic here.

That is the point that Gary Gannon of the SDs is making.

You said leader of the opposition isn't a thing here. But it actually is, and when shown it is you've resorted to a different tact.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Are SF aware that 'Leader of the Oppostion' is a role in Westminster (currently Keir Starmer) and isn't a thing in Ireland? Strange to see them referring to it today.

Sinn Fein are occupying a vacuum that the other two party's created through ineptitude. Trying to ignore it, or pretend it's not happening is useless.

I say that as a previously proud Fianna Fail voter by the way. But never, EVER again.

Finty Lemon

Leading the opposition after winning the election.
Brilliant.

Bubbaclaus

CDarby wrote: »

You said leader of the opposition isn't a thing here. But it actually is, and when shown it is you've resorted to a different tact.

Leader of the Opposition is not a thing here. Don't know why you are claiming it is. Demanding a response from the Taoiseach because you are "leader of the opposition" is not a thing in Ireland. McDonald said "the Taoiseach's job is to deal with the leader of the opposition". It is not.