The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, I said it was a clumsy and stupid way to make the point but wasn't homophobic. My opinion freely given. I also said if he was being homophobic he had to go.

Even after a gay person said, his comment was homophobic?
What makes you think you know more about the subject than a gay person?

Why do you believe his comments were misogynistic yet NOT homophobic.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Even after a gay person said, his comment was homophobic?
What makes you think you know more about the subject than a gay person?

Why do you believe his comments were misogynistic yet NOT homophobic.

Even after the Women's Council of Ireland called out the Indo, you won't answer the question but want to deflect?


What sanction do you think should be given to the editorial team at the Indo or are you ok with this depiction?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Even after the Women's Council of Ireland called out the Indo, you won't answer the question but want to deflect?

Oh the irony.
Again, why were the comments misogynistic yet not homophobic or xenophobic?

I dont understand the logic at play here.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Oh the irony.
Again, why were the comments misogynistic yet not homophobic or xenophobic?

I dont understand the logic at play here.

Not going there again. Re-read the thread. Holohan is dealt with and gone...something I think is a good thing for all.


Can you answer the question now?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not going there again. Re-read the thread. Holohan is dealt with and gone...something I think is a good thing for all.

I did but alas, there was no answer.

I guess that his homophobic or xenophobic comments that were directed at Leo may have something more to do with it than anything else.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

I did but alas, there was no answer.

I guess that his homophobic or xenophobic comments that were directed at Leo may have something more to do with it than anything else.

Ok, you clearly don't think the Indo did anything wrong here.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I still don't think his comment was homophobic.
I do think he was misogynistic.

All his comments were stupid and clumsy and inappropriate and were called such from my first comment on the matter. And I praised SF for their quick response in sanctioning him.

Now, any sanction for the editorial team at the Indo or are you ok with their misogyny?

If you still don't think that Holohan's comments were homophobic, your outrage on the cartoon is even more hysterically hypocritical than I thought. I had hoped that the intervening months had seen a Damascene conversion to tolerance, but that hope is forlorn. Let us remind ourselves of some of the commentary on Holohan's homophobia which attracted international attention and brought shame on the country:

https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/cahirodoherty/paddy-holohans-comments-mountain-to-climb

http://www.sin.ie/2020/02/18/paddy-holohans-comments-show-the-ugly-side-of-nationalism/

https://news.sky.com/story/paddy-holohan-ex-mma-fighter-and-sinn-fein-councillor-apologises-for-leo-varadkar-remarks-11910387

Yet Francie is almost alone in thinking there was nothing homophobic about the comments.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

If you still don't think that Holohan's comments were homophobic, your outrage on the cartoon is even more hysterically hypocritical than I thought. I had hoped that the intervening months had seen a Damascene conversion to tolerance, but that hope is forlorn. Let us remind ourselves of some of the commentary on Holohan's homophobia which attracted international attention and brought shame on the country:

https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/cahirodoherty/paddy-holohans-comments-mountain-to-climb

http://www.sin.ie/2020/02/18/paddy-holohans-comments-show-the-ugly-side-of-nationalism/

https://news.sky.com/story/paddy-holohan-ex-mma-fighter-and-sinn-fein-councillor-apologises-for-leo-varadkar-remarks-11910387

Yet Francie is almost alone in thinking there was nothing homophobic about the comments.

STILL ignoring that there is more than me and SF concerned about a National newspaper publishing this in 2021.

Francie seems to think this is the independent editorial team thread, only wants them discussed in here it seems

But watch the usuals howl 'whataboutery' when you dare mention sf in the rabid govt criticism thread

Both ways, as always

Thats not even to get into the realm of difference between the press behaving one way and it being therefore ok for a political party to do so

Thats not even to get into the actual comparisons of the behaviour being utterly invalid

Thats not even to get into the constant disavowal of online sf supporters and their behaviour

Sher sf have nothing to do with anything anyone does- never did!

They only want to lead the country, but nothing is ever anything got to do with them.

Unreal tbh.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Francie seems to think this is the independent editorial team thread, only wants them discussed in here it seems

But watch the usuals howl 'whataboutery' when you dare mention sf in the rabid govt criticism thread

Both ways, as always

Thats not even to get into the realm of difference between the press behaving one way and it being therefore ok for a political party to do so

Thats not even to get into the actual comparisons of the behaviour being utterly invalid

Thats not even to get into the constant disavowal of online sf supporters and their behaviour

Sher sf have nothing to do with anything anyone does- never did!

They only want to lead the country, but nothing is ever anything got to do with them.

Unreal tbh.

Paddy Holohan has been dealt with exhaustively here. What he did, does not excuse the Indo.

Using the misogyny of others to excuse somebody else's or to dilute it is just wrong headed and deflectionary. And that is what is happening here.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Paddy Holohan has been dealt with exhaustively here. What he did, does not excuse the Indo.

Using the misogyny of others to excuse somebody else's or to dilute it is just wrong headed and deflectionary. And that is what is happening here.

Nobody is excusing the Indo, let's be clear. I haven't heard anyone say otherwise, albeit the cartoon is at the milder end of misogyny compared to say, a permanent wall mural depicting Arlene Foster as a witch, or Paddy Holohan.

What is being said is that Sinn Fein and their supporters and apologists are being disgustingly hypocritical on the issue of misogyny. That is both factual and fair comment.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Nobody is excusing the Indo, let's be clear.

:D:D You are doing the classic 'look over there' and using tropes, like 'SF controlled areas' in order to dilute what the Indo did.

Bubbaclaus

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D You are doing the classic 'look over there' and using tropes, like 'SF controlled areas' in order to dilute what the Indo did.

Would this post be an example of a classic 'look over there' post whilst also trying to excuse behaviour by saying the problem wasn't the person that said the words, but the people who brought attention to it?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The problem with Holohan is not so much himself(Although he is a liability and the SHinners should get rid) but the selective attention to him on social media, and the 'quality' of our councillor stock in the country in general. A 'councillor' in this country of any party is liable to do or say anything.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-20175093.html

https://www.pbp.ie/calls-for-public-apology-over-fascist-comments-from-fine-gael/

FrancieBrady

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Would this post be an example of a classic 'look over there' post whilst also trying to excuse behaviour by saying the problem wasn't the person that said the words, but the people who brought attention to it?

Could I have been any clearer?

Although he is a liability and the SHinners should get rid

Bubbaclaus

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Could I have been any clearer?

Although he is a liability and the SHinners should get rid

Yes, you were perfectly clear. Your concern was that he was a liability for SF, not for the comments he actually made.

And then you tried to deflect by posting 2 articles, one 10 years old, about what 2 other councillors once did ('look over there', as you aptly call it)

blanch152

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Would this post be an example of a classic 'look over there' post whilst also trying to excuse behaviour by saying the problem wasn't the person that said the words, but the people who brought attention to it?

IMHO, an excellent example of the problem that was identified by Francie.

FrancieBrady

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Yes, you were perfectly clear. Your concern was that he was a liability for SF, not for the comments he actually made.

And then you tried to deflect by posting 2 articles, one 10 years old, about what 2 other councillors once did ('look over there', as you aptly call it)

Once again I become the subject of the thread.

I had from my first comment said his comments were stupid.

Bubbaclaus

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Once again I become the subject of the thread.

I had from my first comment said his comments were stupid.

Just pointing out that you can't really accuse someone of doing a classic 'look over there', when you are so prone to doing it yourself.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh gave some good advice of a similar nature today.

FrancieBrady

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Just pointing out that you can't really accuse someone of doing a classic 'look over there', when you are so prone to doing it yourself.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh gave some good advice of a similar nature today.

There is 'look over there' excusing and diluting and moving a conversation on AFTER criticising the comments.

Have a look at blanch's first line on this topic and markodaly's refusal to call out the Indo.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is 'look over there' excusing and diluting and moving a conversation on AFTER criticising the comments.

Have a look at blanch's first line on this topic and markodaly's refusal to call out the Indo.

I have been absolutely clear on my view of the Indo's comments, but as this is the SF thread, it is very relevant to point out the venial sin nature of the cartoon compared to the mortal sin nature of events such as the permanent mural depicting Arlene Foster as a witch, Paddy Holohan's exercises in feminism, the hounding of Mairia Cahill, Johnny Mythen's "burn at the stake" incendiary comments and the many many more examples of SF misogyny from Aine Adams to Jean McConville.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I have been absolutely clear on my view of the Indo's comments, but as this is the SF thread, it is very relevant to point out the venial sin nature of the cartoon compared to the mortal sin nature of events such as the permanent mural depicting Arlene Foster as a witch, Paddy Holohan's exercises in feminism, the hounding of Mairia Cahill, Johnny Mythen's "burn at the stake" incendiary comments and the many many more examples of SF misogyny from Aine Adams to Jean McConville.

The only one hounding Maria Cahill and Jean McConville is your good self.

Cahill was raised in relation to dissidents and FG's lack of respect for the GFA. You used her as a victim to be dragged out for another point scoring exercise like all the woman is is a victim. Same for McConville. It's shameful IMO.

James Brown

In keeping with the logic here abouts, I'd like to congratulate MLMD and MON on this. Good job Sinn Fein.

NI records lowest number of new Covid cases in six months

wicklowstevo

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2021/03/22/republican-fundamentalists-vow-to-decapitate-cartoonist-depicting-prophet-mcdonald/?utm_campaign=later-linkinbio-whispersnews&utm_content=later-15563377&utm_medium=social&utm_source=instagram



careful now cartoons have feeling too :-)

blanch152

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/deeply-divided-northern-ireland-education-system-unsustainable-and-unaffordable-40228130.html

Very interesting article about the dreadful education system in the North. One snippet caught the eye, as it could be used nearly about every SF policy

"Sinn Fein continue to be somewhat ambivalent despite their public pronouncements about removing selection"

i.e. say the right thing in public but do nothing about it.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/deeply-divided-northern-ireland-education-system-unsustainable-and-unaffordable-40228130.html

Very interesting article about the dreadful education system in the North. One snippet caught the eye, as it could be used nearly about every SF policy

"Sinn Fein continue to be somewhat ambivalent despite their public pronouncements about removing selection"

i.e. say the right thing in public but do nothing about it.

Or - if you use normal societal value ratings, partition and the northern statelet has failed abysmally?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Or - if you use normal societal value ratings, partition and the northern statelet has failed abysmally?

There is no reason why Northern Ireland couldn't be as successful as other small countries such as Malta, Cyprus, Estonia and Latvia, all much smaller, all proud independent members of the EU.

It was interesting to hear a unionist recognise the reality of three minorities in the North last night.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

There is no reason why Northern Ireland couldn't be as successful as other small countries such as Malta, Cyprus, Estonia and Latvia, all much smaller, all proud independent members of the EU.

It was interesting to hear a unionist recognise the reality of three minorities in the North last night.

Or clinging to the idea that there are 3 and that 2 of them are always going to vote for continued partition. Naomi Long at least pointed that out.

By the way, there is a 'reason' even though you refuse to recognise it.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Or clinging to the idea that there are 3 and that 2 of them are always going to vote for continued partition. Naomi Long at least pointed that out.

That minority might not vote for staying in the UK, but that doesn't mean that they'll vote for a united Ireland.

It is time for a revision of the GFA to recognise the legitimate aspirations of the minority who prefer a Northern Irish identity to either a British or Irish identity.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

That minority might not vote for staying in the UK, but that doesn't mean that they'll vote for a united Ireland.

It is time for a revision of the GFA to recognise the legitimate aspirations of the minority who prefer a Northern Irish identity to either a British or Irish identity.

Well, looking around, the only political entity looking to revise the GFA are the DUP and it isn't to give voice to a NI identity.

This identity is not looking like forming a political party of it's own either. I'm not aware of any political party here proposing that either. So good luck with that one.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, looking around, the only political entity looking to revise the GFA are the DUP and it isn't to give voice to a NI identity.

This identity is not looking like forming a political party of it's own either. I'm not aware of any political party here proposing that either. So good luck with that one.

Political parties that are neither unionist nor nationalist by default favour a Northern Irish identity. It will take time for that politically to come through, but it is a sign of nationalist fear of that identity that is driving the push for a border poll sooner than later.