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The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

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    #2612
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Political parties that are neither unionist nor nationalist by default favour a Northern Irish identity. It will take time for that politically to come through, but it is a sign of nationalist fear of that identity that is driving the push for a border poll sooner than later.

    Why would they 'fear' it?

    The Unionist parties are hemorrhaging support with the DUP predicted to be in trouble in the next elections.

    What is coming through 'politically' is people moving away from Unionism and a massive upswing in the discussion of a UI and with Brexit only getting going that is going to increase.
    Nobody is talking about anything else that I can see.


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    #2613
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,646 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    blanch152 wrote: »
    That minority might not vote for staying in the UK, but that doesn't mean that they'll vote for a united Ireland.

    It is time for a revision of the GFA to recognise the legitimate aspirations of the minority who prefer a Northern Irish identity to either a British or Irish identity.

    That is an interesting concept. A third way so to speak where one doesnt have to tick a box saying they are British or Irish.
    I can see that work alright.


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    #2614
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,646 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Why would they 'fear' it?

    The Unionist parties are hemorrhaging support with the DUP predicted to be in trouble in the next elections.

    What is coming through 'politically' is people moving away from Unionism and a massive upswing in the discussion of a UI and with Brexit only getting going that is going to increase.
    Nobody is talking about anything else that I can see.

    They are also moving away from Nationalism, if the polls and latest eletion results are anything to go by.

    Sinn Fein support peaked some years back and the younger generation are not too fussed about the Green and Orange divide.

    Maybe that is why SF are so keen to have this border poll now, as they fear the new generation coming soon dont really care for either SF or the DUP.


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    #2615
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    They are also moving away from Nationalism, if the polls and latest eletion results are anything to go by.

    Sinn Fein support peaked some years back and the younger generation are not too fussed about the Green and Orange divide.

    Maybe that is why SF are so keen to have this border poll now, as they fear the new generation coming soon dont really care for either SF or the DUP.

    If you want to cod yourself that a UI s owned by SF you might have a point.


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    #2616
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If you want to cod yourself that a UI s owned by SF you might have a point.

    And unless Coveney, Ahern and Kenny are secret shinners.


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    #2617
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    James Brown wrote: »
    And unless Coveney, Ahern and Kenny are secret shinners.

    Eoghan Harris could knock a few articles out of that! :)


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    #2618
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,931 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If you want to cod yourself that a UI s owned by SF you might have a point.

    In the North, the only party pushing a border poll in the next 10 years is Sinn Fein. They are losing votes every election. If you can't see the connection.....


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    #2619
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    In the North, the only party pushing a border poll in the next 10 years is Sinn Fein. They are losing votes every election. If you can't see the connection.....

    ahem....https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fsdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566


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    #2620
    a very cool kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭a very cool kid


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    ahem....https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fsdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566

    So 4 years ago.....


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    #2621
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    a very cool kid wrote: »
    So 4 years ago.....

    Yes, they do have a habit of flip flopping. But it is wrong to say SF are the only ones who are pushing a UI...Mary Lou very adamantly said as recently as last night that she doesn't think one should be held tomorrow but rather when the preparations are done...exactly what the SDLP are saying now.



    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/07/21/news/colum-eastwood-says-border-poll-should-be-called-when-it-s-winnable-2011135/


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    #2622
    votecounts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    James Brown wrote: »
    And unless Coveney, Ahern and Kenny are secret shinners.

    Maybe they're sleepers:D


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    #2623
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,931 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    ahem....https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fsdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566
    blanch152 wrote: »
    In the North, the only party pushing a border poll in the next 10 years is Sinn Fein. They are losing votes every election. If you can't see the connection.....

    Let's be clear, I said "pushing" a border poll. FG, FF, Labour, SDLP, even elements of the DUP are in favour of a border poll sometime, but it is only SF in the North who are pushing a border poll.


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    #2624
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Let's be clear, I said "pushing" a border poll. FG, FF, Labour, SDLP, even elements of the DUP are in favour of a border poll sometime, but it is only SF in the North who are pushing a border poll.

    When the preparation is done. They are all saying that.

    If you vote for the SDLP or SF you know you are voting for parties that support a UI blanch...no amount of twisting will change that.


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    #2625
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,931 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    When the preparation is done. They are all saying that.

    If you vote for the SDLP or SF you know you are voting for parties that support a UI blanch...no amount of twisting will change that.

    I never said that the SDLP didn't support a united Ireland, you are reading stuff into my posts that isn't there, in order to somehow prove me wrong.

    I said what I said, the only party in Northern Ireland pushing a border poll is Sinn Fein.


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    #2626
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I never said that the SDLP didn't support a united Ireland, you are reading stuff into my posts that isn't there, in order to somehow prove me wrong.

    I said what I said, the only party in Northern Ireland pushing a border poll is Sinn Fein.

    So are you just going to deny that the SDLP also want a poll and were 'pushing' for one at the end of the Brexit negotiations?

    Another attempt to other SF up in smoke.


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    #2627
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,931 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So are you just going to deny that the SDLP also want a poll and were 'pushing' for one at the end of the Brexit negotiations?

    Another attempt to other SF up in smoke.


    SDLP are not pushing for a border poll.

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/07/21/news/colum-eastwood-says-border-poll-should-be-called-when-it-s-winnable-2011135/


    "He said a border poll would be the "last thing you do"."

    All nationalist parties want a border poll when the time is right, all of them except Sinn Fein don't believe the time is right, Sinn Fein are the only ones pushing for a border poll.

    Sinn Fein are out on their own on this one, as a supporter of republicanism, you should be proud of this, rather than trying to hide among the others.


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    #2628
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    SDLP are not pushing for a border poll.

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/07/21/news/colum-eastwood-says-border-poll-should-be-called-when-it-s-winnable-2011135/


    "He said a border poll would be the "last thing you do"."

    All nationalist parties want a border poll when the time is right, all of them except Sinn Fein don't believe the time is right, Sinn Fein are the only ones pushing for a border poll.

    Sinn Fein are out on their own on this one, as a supporter of republicanism, you should be proud of this, rather than trying to hide among the others.

    Mary Lou as recently as last night...'we need to prepare for a border poll'.

    Exact same thing as Eastwood is saying.

    Said it before, will say it again..SF don't own a UI...loads of people talking about it. The putative next leader of FF being the latest in a lecture at Sussex College.

    The ones 'out on their own' seem to be the DUP and partitionists here who have their fingers in their ears...see also last night's debate for Gregory Campbell and John Bruton.


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    #2629
    Triangle
    Registered Users Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Triangle


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Yes, they do have a habit of flip flopping. But it is wrong to say SF are the only ones who are pushing a UI...Mary Lou very adamantly said as recently as last night that she doesn't think one should be held tomorrow but rather when the preparations are done...exactly what the SDLP are saying now.

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/07/21/news/colum-eastwood-says-border-poll-should-be-called-when-it-s-winnable-2011135/


    In all fairness, Mary lou is the trump equivalent in ireland, she says the populist iteam on the agenda and changes depending on the wind.
    Not to mention being devicive, polarisation and nationalistic and anti EU.
    She's as bad as FG/FF with their game spinning agendas


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    #2630
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,646 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If you want to cod yourself that a UI s owned by SF you might have a point.

    Well it is their pet project and the main drive behind a border poll.
    SF types see it as conquest of territory while John Hume was correct of course saying one must unite people, not land.


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    #2631
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Well it is their pet project and the main drive behind a border poll.
    SF types see it as conquest of territory while John Hume was correct of course saying one must unite people, not land.

    How did that work out for him?

    SF live in the 'territory' afaik.


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    #2632
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,646 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    How did that work out for him?

    SF live in the 'territory' afaik.

    Work out for whom?

    John Hume, the man who is seen as arguably the greatest Irishman from the latter half of the 20th century? His legacy is secured, apart from a few grumbling fanatical Irish Republicans who see it as a threat to the legacy and myth-making of the PIRA campaign.

    See, that is the SF problem right there, always looking to eek out an advantage, a few % here or there, which will be their downfall. Never looking at the bigger picture.


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    #2633
    wicklowstevo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 919 ✭✭✭wicklowstevo


    Triangle wrote: »
    In all fairness, Mary lou is the trump equivalent in ireland, she says the populist iteam on the agenda and changes depending on the wind.
    Not to mention being devicive, polarisation and nationalistic and anti EU.
    She's as bad as FG/FF with their game spinning agendas

    your really gona trigger the bots with that one :pac::pac::pac::pac:


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    #2634
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Work out for whom?

    John Hume, the man who is seen as arguably the greatest Irishman from the latter half of the 20th century? His legacy is secured, apart from a few grumbling fanatical Irish Republicans who see it as a threat to the legacy and myth-making of the PIRA campaign.

    See, that is the SF problem right there, always looking to eek out an advantage, a few % here or there, which will be their downfall. Never looking at the bigger picture.

    Yes John Hume...how did it work out for him, 'uniting with belligerent Unionism. We know he united with SF to deliver the GFA for nationalists.


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    #2635
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,646 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Yes John Hume...how did it work out for him, 'uniting with belligerent Unionism. We know he united with SF to deliver the GFA for nationalists.

    Isn't there peace in NI now? I think he would take that any day of the week, and your constant point-scoring anytime John Hume's name is mentioned gives off a certain inferiority complex, it has to be said.


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    #2636
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Isn't there peace in NI now? I think he would take that any day of the week, and your constant point-scoring anytime John Hume's name is mentioned gives off a certain inferiority complex, it has to be said.

    There is relative peace, his singular success...when he teamed up and listened to what Adams had to say and offer.

    No inferiority complex just a good grasp of historical fact and revulsion of mistruths and misrepresentation.


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    #2637
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    SDLP are not pushing for a border poll.

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/07/21/news/colum-eastwood-says-border-poll-should-be-called-when-it-s-winnable-2011135/


    "He said a border poll would be the "last thing you do"."

    All nationalist parties want a border poll when the time is right, all of them except Sinn Fein don't believe the time is right, Sinn Fein are the only ones pushing for a border poll.

    Sinn Fein are out on their own on this one, as a supporter of republicanism, you should be proud of this, rather than trying to hide among the others.

    Salient point by Emma DeSouza that partitionists and unionists might reflect on:



    https://twitter.com/EmmandJDeSouza/status/1374339600248885249


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    #2638
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Salient point by Emma DeSouza that partitionists and unionists might reflect on:



    https://twitter.com/EmmandJDeSouza/status/1374339600248885249

    Francie, is she not being a bit premature? The majority still want to remain part of the UK.


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    #2639
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jh79 wrote: »
    Francie, is she not being a bit premature? The majority still want to remain part of the UK.

    There was a Border Poll jh79????


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    #2640
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There was a Border Poll jh79????

    C'mon Francie the opinion polls are clear. The majority want to remain. The DUP are not preventing the process yet.


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    #2641
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,880 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jh79 wrote: »
    C'mon Francie the opinion polls are clear. The majority want to remain. The DUP are not preventing the process yet.

    So when Scottish Independence got the majority in opinion polls in the independence campaign, should we have called it then?

    The point is jh79, the GFA is referred to as a 'process' that was intended to lead to a border poll at regular intervals to take stock of opinion.

    Only a fool would say that the 'opinion' hasn't vastly changed in as little as 4 years. There is an attempt, by the likes of Gregory Campbell and partitionists to halt that process.


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