Evicting guest/caretaker

05-02-2021 01:05PM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

She has no rights, is not covered by the RTB. You can put her out straight away. She is abusing you and her previous friendship with your mother. I would be buying new locks.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Moving in is ridiculous. If she is a tenant , moving in is a breach of her right to peaceful enjoyment and would trigger a claim for compensation as big as an eviction.
If she is not a tenant she can be put out anyway, so why move in and have her claim she was assaulted or there was trespass to her goods?

Make up your mind, if she has no rights, she has no rights, who said anything about assault? or trespass? they can move in if they please, there seems to be no incentive for this person to leave, I'll take that the Ops circumstances are unusual, but this has been let get way out of hand and something needs to be done, its a situation of their own making in some regards, they should have dealt with it and a continued failure to deal with it isn't going to make it go away. There is nothing to say the OP shouldnt be friendly, that makes it easier for the other person to push back, but they need to start taking some action, there is nothing to stop them from entering that property.
Sending formal letters by registered post imo, confers some legitimacy on this persons presence, just go and speak to them, tell them in no uncertain terms and the best way to do that is for someone to move in and monitor the situation.

Claw Hammer · 05-02-2021 01:17PM

1874 wrote: »

Make up your mind, if she has no rights, she has no rights, who said anything about assault? or trespass? they can move in if they please, there seems to be no incentive for this person to leave, I'll take that the Ops circumstances are unusual, but this has been let get way out of hand and something needs to be done, its a situation of their own making in some regards, they should have dealt with it and a continued failure to deal with it isn't going to make it go away. There is nothing to say the OP shouldnt be friendly, that makes it easier for the other person to push back, but they need to start taking some action, there is nothing to stop them from entering that property.
Sending formal letters by registered post imo, confers some legitimacy on this persons presence, just go and speak to them, tell them in no uncertain terms and the best way to do that is for someone to move in and monitor the situation.

I have made up my mind. She has no rights. She should be locked out. Moving is is ridiculous. If you have the right to move in, you have the right to lock her out. There much more of a chance she will make a successful complaint of some kind if you move in. Her personal possessions are in the apartment, she is physically present in the apartment. What if she claims an attempted rape?

Garibaldi? · 05-02-2021 01:41PM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I have made up my mind. She has no rights. She should be locked out. Moving is is ridiculous. If you have the right to move in, you have the right to lock her out. There much more of a chance she will make a successful complaint of some kind if you move in. Her personal possessions are in the apartment, she is physically present in the apartment. What if she claims an attempted rape?[/QUOTE

Moving in the place to in a friendly and civilized manner is not altering the situation which this person enjoyed when the owner of the property was alive.You are just taking care of legitimate business as the executor/heirs. Involve all the siblings.Of course it is of prime importance to maintain friendly relations all the way! Trying to get the person out would be a different story completely.

jimmycrackcorm · 05-02-2021 01:47PM

Claw Hammer wrote:

What if she claims an attempted rape?

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

JoChervil · 05-02-2021 02:20PM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I have made up my mind. She has no rights. She should be locked out. Moving is is ridiculous. If you have the right to move in, you have the right to lock her out. There much more of a chance she will make a successful complaint of some kind if you move in. Her personal possessions are in the apartment, she is physically present in the apartment. What if she claims an attempted rape?

She initially lived with OP's mother, so any heir of the mother has a right to enter the apartment whenever they like. And live there as well. She for sure has no proof of an exclusive use of it because she was never given such a right. Especially when she was not paying bills.

emeldc · 05-02-2021 02:29PM

I wouldn’t be in favour of moving in. It just complicates the situation. Who knows, maybe she’ll just leave after her extra week is up. If she doesn’t The OP might ‘forget’ to pay the utilities, they would be disconnected by the suppliers soon enough. As far as I know you need proof of tenancy/ownership to set up your own supply. You couldn’t do something like that if there was a tenancy of some sort, you’d be made reconnect. But if she doesn’t have a tenancy and is digging her heels in and won’t leave............

The Continental Op · 05-02-2021 02:58PM

emeldc wrote: »

I wouldn’t be in favour of moving in. It just complicates the situation. Who knows, maybe she’ll just leave after her extra week is up. If she doesn’t The OP might ‘forget’ to pay the utilities, they would be disconnected by the suppliers soon enough. As far as I know you need proof of tenancy/ownership to set up your own supply. You couldn’t do something like that if there was a tenancy of some sort, you’d be made reconnect. But if she doesn’t have a tenancy and is digging her heels in and won’t leave............

The utilities issue is a tricky one. If they are cut off then the guest could possibley get them reconnected in their name making them much more like a tennant rather than a guest.

Credit Checker Moose · 05-02-2021 03:24PM

The Continental Op wrote: »

The utilities issue is a tricky one. If they are cut off then the guest could possibley get them reconnected in their name making them much more like a tennant rather than a guest.

Not possible unless they have a documented tenancy.

Garibaldi? · 05-02-2021 03:25PM

The Continental Op wrote: »

The utilities issue is a tricky one. If they are cut off then the guest could possibley get them reconnected in their name making them much more like a tennant rather than a guest.

The connection of utilities involves much documentation and engagement with the owner of a property.

The J Stands for Jay · 05-02-2021 03:28PM

Dinging wrote: »

They live there, have full and exclusive use of the apartment. My Mum who died in September had vacated the apartment 2 years ago so they have been living there since.

Have they been paying the correct tax to revenue for the rent free use of the property?

Gatling · 05-02-2021 03:35PM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

The connection of utilities involves much documentation and engagement with the owner of a property.

From experience a phone call and a meter reading depending on provider

skooterblue2 · 05-02-2021 03:50PM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Moving in is ridiculous. If she is a tenant , moving in is a breach of her right to peaceful enjoyment and would trigger a claim for compensation as big as an eviction.
If she is not a tenant she can be put out anyway, so why move in and have her claim she was assaulted or there was trespass to her goods?

She isnt paying rent, so she isnt a tenant, she has not contract, she has none of the household bills in her name. That is not a tenant, that is squatter. She has no rights. For her to be a tenant she would have to have a contract and recognise the owner. She has very little rights.

Garibaldi? · 05-02-2021 03:50PM

Gatling wrote: »

From experience a phone call and a meter reading depending on provider

https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/help/moving-in-or-out/how-do-i-open-an-electricity-or-gas-account Fairly demanding!

The J Stands for Jay · 05-02-2021 04:01PM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/help/moving-in-or-out/how-do-i-open-an-electricity-or-gas-account Fairly demanding!

Much easier to just add a name to an existing account

The Continental Op · 05-02-2021 04:15PM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/help/moving-in-or-out/how-do-i-open-an-electricity-or-gas-account Fairly demanding!

Not really because of the "if applicable" clauses. It doesn't take a genius to say the previous bill payer is dead so the "if applicable" doesn't apply.

Claw Hammer · 05-02-2021 06:03PM

JoChervil wrote: »

She initially lived with OP's mother, so any heir of the mother has a right to enter the apartment whenever they like. And live there as well. She for sure has no proof of an exclusive use of it because she was never given such a right. Especially when she was not paying bills.

Who is an heir for this purpose? What law recognises such a person?

Garibaldi? · 05-02-2021 06:57PM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Who is an heir for this purpose? What law recognises such a person?

The whole lot of them could move in with their dogs, cats, budgies, hamsters etc

:D:D. The squatter couldn't say boo.

Claw Hammer · 05-02-2021 06:57PM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

The whole lot of them could move in with their dogs, cats, budgies, hamsters etc :D:D. The squatter couldn't say boo.

This is a legal discussion. Define an heir?

Garibaldi? · 05-02-2021 07:23PM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

This is a legal discussion. Define an heir?

What the squatter clearly isn't and won't be.:D:D:D:D:D

Claw Hammer · 05-02-2021 07:32PM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

What the squatter clearly isn't and won't be.:D:D:D:D:D

That is not a definition. You haven't a clue!

Garibaldi? · 05-02-2021 07:41PM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

That is not a definition. You haven't a clue!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Garibaldi? · 05-02-2021 07:57PM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

When the freeloader is looking forward to a long soak at the future owner's expense! Meet my friend Percy!https://www.deviantart.com/z4noni/art/Pig-taking-a-bath-290531702:D:D:D:D:D:D

Dinging · 05-02-2021 11:47PM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Moving in is ridiculous. If she is a tenant , moving in is a breach of her right to peaceful enjoyment and would trigger a claim for compensation as big as an eviction.
If she is not a tenant she can be put out anyway, so why move in and have her claim she was assaulted or there was trespass to her goods?

Not tenant, a guest/caretaker. No rent, no rental agreement, was contributing some monies towards bills for a period.

Dinging · 05-02-2021 11:51PM

coylemj wrote: »

If you pay a solicitor to write to that lady to tell her that you're going to pursue 'the legal avenue', it will be music to her ears. Because getting a court order for her to leave will probably take at least two years.

The last thing you should be doing is letting her know that you're going to 'explore the legal avenue'.

Sorry to be blunt here but it seems to me that you've behaved like complete mugs - you've allowed her to stay rent-free in your mum's apartment, you've paid all of the utilities (including Sky) for over a year and now you've offered to put her up in a hotel. If I was her, I'd string you out forever.

Yes after this week and 6 separate appointments all canceled we feel like mugs. Some direct action is being taken early tomorrow.

Dinging · 05-02-2021 11:55PM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

I think the moving in idea is great. And in a really friendly way. If this person hasn't got a landlord tenant agreement they cannot stop you doing that.

That's the plan. We have arranged for a fairly unpleasant chap to move in from tomorrow morning. He's also a friend of the family. It's a bit like getting a cat to get rid of mice.

Dinging · 06-02-2021 12:02AM

JoChervil wrote: »

She initially lived with OP's mother, so any heir of the mother has a right to enter the apartment whenever they like. And live there as well. She for sure has no proof of an exclusive use of it because she was never given such a right. Especially when she was not paying bills.

No, the guest moved in when my Mum moved to a nursing home. The apartment was empty. There was some hope Mum would get well enough to move back in so it was a flexible arrangement but that never happened. Mum passed in September. The executor called the guest told them time was up but we wanted to make sure that we gave notice so a registered letter was sent and we gave 6 weeks notice. Perhaps this was a bad move by giving legitimacy to the guest's legal standing to remain.

skooterblue2 · 06-02-2021 12:02AM

Dinging wrote: »

That's the plan. We have arranged for a fairly unpleasant chap to move in from tomorrow morning. He's also a friend of the family. It's a bit like getting a cat to get rid of mice.

I hope she likes Naked Tuesdays..... not anymore she doesn't.

I dont think it will work, it will have to be "You are moving out because we need to move a family in"

CoBo55 · 06-02-2021 12:10AM

Dinging wrote: »

My late mother's estate is. She is paying for electricity, heating, Sky tv, apartment management fees including insurance and bins. We have had no contribution for almost a year now towards any utilities or bills.

Are they being paid by DD from your Mothers account? Surely all her accounts should have been stopped as soon as she died.

Dinging · 06-02-2021 12:15AM

Thanks for all of the contributions, some have been more than helpful. Some have not been helpful at all, but that's fine. So D day was last Monday, that came and went, then Wednesday and then Friday. The guest is still in situ. Now not engaging, saying they are out when we call but we can hear the phone and the guest talking in the apartment. The guest is possibly going through some mental episode and we are caught in the middle of this. While we do have some sympathy we need to gain entry to the property as a matter of urgency. It's not an eviction, it's just that we as a family have decided that we no longer need the property to be taken care of so the guest has to go. Legally the executor has 12 months to execute the will hence the urgency. The plan is to take make entry tomorrow morning to carry out maintenance that is necessary to ensure the safety of the property.

Mrs OBumble · 06-02-2021 01:23AM

JoChervil wrote: »

But why should it be OP's family problem? They were kind enough to her. It's her life and she should solve it...

Agreed.

Except the mammy made it their problem, by providing her with accommodation.

I don't believe the executor has any on-going obligation to the caretaker. But they do need to get her out, while preserving the value of the property. This is best done carefully, and without unfounded assumptions about her cash position.

Evicting guest/caretaker

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