Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh - thread 2.0

slave1

Guys I’m talking a 5 year old battery swapped out for a brand new full capacity battery, in this scenario I’d take lower DC charging and rapid gate every day of the week

Old diesel

Kramer wrote: »

No, the 38kWh packs are liquid cooled, under floor units. The 28s were rear mounted, aircooled. The 38s DC charge at half the speed of the 28s too, at 1c :eek:.

Hyundai could be into forced buy back territory here.

Bit premature to talk about forced buybacks....

1) the recall if fully confirmed by Hyundai is for a fault that the Ioniq 28 may not even have - fires are a Kona issue to date.

2) lets see what any actual battery replacement is actually like. It may be inferior or may not be. Forced buyback will be on basis of an identified performance gap.

3) Because the fires are on a different model - is the Ioniq recall even going to be mandatory in Europe. A voluntary recall would reduce the need to do forced buy back.

4) what are they going to do with cars bought back - scrap them????. Forced buybacks would be impossible to resell. So you are buying back cars to scrap for a fault the car never had?????.

Hyundai will be paying 15 k a car at least for buy back - cant see them doing that when they can to the best of everyones knowledge say.....

"hi customer - your Ioniq has no identified issue - so no action required"

Would be unprecedented for a model to be bought back for a fire risk on a different model and battery pack imo.

Edit - im assuming there isnt a Takata airbag style wider inherent issue with LG chem here.

unkel

latency89 wrote: »

Would they get the 38kWh packs? That'd be a win

Unkel will be seething if they do lol

Au contraire. As Kramer rightly pointed out, it would bodge up the car that was such a winner. A car with that battery replacement would struggle doing long distance driving. Good of course if you have a now over 4 year old Ioniq and you rarely drive over 240km but often over 180km at motorway speeds

Let's see how this pans out though, I can't see Hyundai replacing all batteries of all classic Ioniqs world wide just yet based on the info above...

slave1

This will be very interesting indeed, popcorn time and wish all I28 owners the best

liamog

slave1 wrote: »

Guys I’m talking a 5 year old battery swapped out for a brand new full capacity battery, in this scenario I’d take lower DC charging and rapid gate every day of the week

At that rate it's going to be another 10 years before you start to see any degradation effects on an I28, ours is still giving us the same effective battery capacity as 4 years ago.

0lddog

On a scale of Zero to Zafira, just how bad is this issue ?

liamog

As of yet, I've not seen reports of fires related to the Ioniq. It's also not clear if it's only the newer cells in the Ioniq 38 that are affected or the original cells used in the Ioniq 28.
Around 15 Kona's have caught fire in South Korea, the problem is supposedly the separator material used in the battery cells. The Ioniq 38 uses the same cells as the Kona so any recall may only apply there.

Old diesel

0lddog wrote: »

On a scale of Zero to Zafira, just how bad is this issue ?

We literally dont even know if there is an issue on the Ioniq.

Theres been fires on Kona EVs - 15 out of 77,000 sold world wide.

Hyundai bought out a software update to help the Kona issue but a car with the update went on fire. So Korean authorities are asking questions about the Kona fix.

Thats a different model with a different battery pack albeit the same battery manufacturer.

BigAl81

liamog wrote:

The Ioniq 38 uses the same cells as the Kona so any recall may only apply there.

I wonder what the odds of getting faster "rapid" charging for the 38 Ioniq if so!!

Old diesel

BigAl81 wrote: »

I wonder what the odds of getting faster "rapid" charging for the 38 Ioniq if so!!

Part of issue with the 38 is a low pack voltage I understand.

64 kwh packs are themselves fairly conservative in terms of speed Vs other big packs - with 77 kw max and you don't get that for very long afaik

liamog

BigAl81 wrote: »

I wonder what the odds of getting faster "rapid" charging for the 38 Ioniq if so!!

Doesn't the Kona also come in a 39kWh version which has a similarly rubbish rapid charging ability

adunis

Well my new 12v battery cured my maladies for about 6 months,booster pack now lives permanently in the car,plugging into the power supply socket works btw rather than popping the bonnet for the battery,.I think I may make a new battery mount and fit a big ass deep cycle battery,I've also gone back to using the time clock I put on my charger.

The ultimate solution is for Hyundai to program the f@#ker to check the battery voltage every 6 or so hours not at 72 hours and 11.6v

The only bug bear the car has really

Black_Knight

adunis wrote: »

Well my new 12v battery cured my maladies for about 6 months,booster pack now lives permanently in the car,plugging into the power supply socket works btw rather than popping the bonnet for the battery,.I think I may make a new battery mount and fit a big ass deep cycle battery,I've also gone back to using the time clock I put on my charger.

The ultimate solution is for Hyundai to program the f@#ker to check the battery voltage every 6 or so hours not at 72 hours and 11.6v

The only bug bear the car has really

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRMNKi84_yw

TLDR, auxiliary battery saver kicks in on what seems like a timed schedule, rather than when the battery voltage gets low, and runs for about 20 minutes. This works until the voltage goes too low for aux battery saver to kick in and they you're goosed.

Short trips seem not to have helped.

adunis

Black_Knight wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRMNKi84_yw

TLDR, auxiliary battery saver kicks in on what seems like a timed schedule, rather than when the battery voltage gets low, and runs for about 20 minutes. This works until the voltage goes too low for aux battery saver to kick in and they you're goosed.

Short trips seem not to have helped.

Just to go off on a tangent BK,have you found a dealer Hyundai dealer who isn't absolutely useless yet ?,due my 90k "service" I was gonna try Barlow's...

Black_Knight

adunis wrote: »

Just to go off on a tangent BK,have you found a dealer Hyundai dealer who isn't absolutely useless yet ?,due my 90k "service" I was gonna try Barlow's...

Any chat i've had with the mechanic, Lee, in Bolands Waterford have been positive. Not had a service with them though. Kearys Cork have always felt unprofessional, or "not on my side" with anything issues i've had. I'm doomed to keep using them though. They're minutes away from me, vs an hour+ for an alternative.

Mickeroo

adunis wrote: »

plugging into the power supply socket works btw rather than popping the bonnet for the battery

How's that work?

unkel

Mickeroo wrote: »

How's that work?

You might be able to charge the 12V battery through the cigarette lighter socket. Very careful with your amps though or the fuse will pop

liamog

unkel wrote: »

You might be able to charge the 12V battery through the cigarette lighter socket. Very careful with your amps though or the fuse will pop

I just spent a few minutes trying to work out how you could power a battery charger from the 12V socket, which was then used to charge the 12V battery. I thought you were trying to claim a magic loop of free energy

unkel

liamog wrote: »

I just spent a few minutes trying to work out how you could power a battery charger from the 12V socket, which was then used to charge the 12V battery. I thought you were trying to claim a magic loop of free energy

No, I use one of these beasts for most of my charging needs

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Doesn't the Kona also come in a 39kWh version which has a similarly rubbish rapid charging ability

Yes, it's essentially the 64kWh pack minus a few cells so the voltage drops. But the taper is still the same (so, whatever the 64kWh would be charging at, the 39kWh is charging at the same amperage but at lower voltage).

An all in all crap "successor" to the legendary Ioniq28. I'd have loved to see an Ioniq with the 64kWh pack. Could have longer range than an S Long Range.

Orebro

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes, it's essentially the 64kWh pack minus a few cells so the voltage drops. But the taper is still the same (so, whatever the 64kWh would be charging at, the 39kWh is charging at the same amperage but at lower voltage).

An all in all crap "successor" to the legendary Ioniq28. I'd have loved to see an Ioniq with the 64kWh pack. Could have longer range than an S Long Range.

Ioniq38 was a massive let down following on from the fabulous 28.

Also shows how important it is for people to do their research before purchasing a new EV these days - I see the Ioniq38 are going for similar or more money than an ID3 - Ioniq38 being an inferior car and not just because you're getting a 20KWh smaller battery!

Black_Knight

Orebro wrote: »

Ioniq38 was a massive let down following on from the fabulous 28.

Also shows how important it is for people to do their research before purchasing a new EV these days - I see the Ioniq38 are going for similar or more money than an ID3 - Ioniq38 being an inferior car and not just because you're getting a 20KWh smaller battery!

More (if not much more) boot space. That's about it

zg3409

unkel wrote: »

You might be able to charge the 12V battery through the cigarette lighter socket. Very careful with your amps though or the fuse will pop

This socket is disconnected when car is asleep so I don't see how you could charge car using it.

In terms of car topping itself up, it does this when starting main battery charging and when preheating. Latest ioniq 28kWh updates seem to top up battery at least once a day when parked and not plugged in. (Vs 72 hours in paper instruction book)
Main thing is to not leave car awake but not on during unloading shopping or waiting at schools etc. Similar to how the yummy mummies leave their diesel SUVs ticking over outside schools.

unkel

zg3409 wrote: »

This socket is disconnected when car is asleep so I don't see how you could charge car using it.

Beginner's mistake. You need to get that live

If there is a mechanical way to access the battery, there's obviously no need for it. But in some cars you can only access the battery by electronic means and if the battery is flat, that no workies!

Black_Knight

Tempted to get this from micks, similar to the one Andrew used on his eNiro
https://www.micksgarage.com/d/battery-testers/products/3510145/battery-guard-bluetooth-monitor

But also awaiting them to restock the noco booster units (good auld brits ruining the supply chain for the rest of us).

zg3409

Black_Knight wrote: »

Tempted to get this from micks, similar to the one Andrew used on his eNiro
https://www.micksgarage.com/d/battery-testers/products/3510145/battery-guard-bluetooth-monitor

I have basically the same from China BM2 battery monitor. 23 euro delivered on eBay from China.

They don't charge your battery, and you need to be next to it to get updates and warnings. It does not really solve any issues, but if your battery is dropping say less than 12.3v then it might be worth leaving car plugged in every night and preheat set for every morning, which will cause 2 extra charges to 12v each night.

I have a few batteries I monitor , some in cars, some on small solar panels as spares. It is/was interesting to see how ioniq handles the 12v battery, particularly if you have a night where it fails to lock the charge port and start a charge due to low 12 volt.

KCross

fricatus wrote: »

https://electrek.co/2021/02/17/hyundai-reportedly-set-to-replace-kona-lg-batteries-in-korea/

Could this lead to the recall of the Ioniq 28 kWh in Ireland? What do ye think lads?

BigAl81 wrote: »

Wow, I can't be reading that right?

Are they going to replace every battery in every Hyundai EV globally!!?

slave1 wrote: »

Result for early Ioniq owners if so

Kramer wrote: »

Not necessarily.
The air cooled 28kWh battery is reputed to have loads of cobalt. That make it very, very robust & able to tolerate 3c charge rates, not really suffer coldgate or rapidgate & ultimately, have less degradation.

New batteries have little to no cobalt & aren't as good as a result.

You could end up with a knobbled, slower charging & less durable battery - it remains to be seen.

latency89 wrote: »

Would they get the 38kWh packs? That'd be a win

Old diesel wrote: »

Bit premature to talk about forced buybacks....

1) the recall if fully confirmed by Hyundai is for a fault that the Ioniq 28 may not even have - fires are a Kona issue to date.

This article posted in Kona thread
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hyundai-motor-electric-recall-idUKKBN2AO0JS

says...

The recall applies to nearly 76,000 Kona EVs built between 2018 and 2020, including about 25,000 sold in South Korea. Some Ioniq EV models and Elec City buses are also included in the recall.

I'd say Ioniq 28kWh would be the exception there and wont be included. Its the longest on the market and it would have blown up long before now if it was affected... just guessing there but seems logical.

Seems mainly Kona and then presumably the newer Ioniq are affected? Does the new Ioniq share a battery with the short range Kona and then hence affected?

ELM327

It's Ioniq38 as they use the same 39kWh battery as the mid range kona EV

Ioniq 28 is bullet proof.

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Seems mainly Kona and then presumably the newer Ioniq are affected? Does the new Ioniq share a battery with the short range Kona and then hence affected?

Seemingly it's all about the cell separators, the 38kWh Ioniq uses the same cells as used in the Kona models

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

It's Ioniq38 as they use the same 39kWh battery as the mid range kona EV

liamog wrote: »

Seemingly it's all about the cell separators, the 38kWh Ioniq uses the same cells as used in the Kona models

And I wonder do any other manufacturers use the same cells?

Surely LG Chem have supplied that to others?