Is there anything to be said for another.. .class?

Treppen

7th Class?

1. Catch up and consolidate for Primary school loss of learning.
2. Hold back the tsunamia of student population due to hit in a couple of years time! Class sizes and pressure for school places are going to be at a max.

Probably cost tonnes of money though

shesty

First thought - Jesus, don't suggest the Department might have to think of ANOTHER thing - they are certainly not managing with the agenda that they have.


Second (more serious) thought - where would you physically put them? As far as I can see most schools in the country are overflowing, where would space be found to put an extra "year" in the infrastructure that is there in every school??

History Queen

shesty wrote: »

First thought - Jesus, don't suggest the Department might have to think of ANOTHER thing - they are certainly not managing with the agenda that they have.


Second (more serious) thought - where would you physically put them? As far as I can see most schools in the country are overflowing, where would space be found to put an extra "year" in the infrastructure that is there in every school??

Without thinking through the merits or otherwise of the idea, infrastructure and teachers were the first issues I thought of.

byhookorbycrook

There is actually such “ a thing,” only found in the likes of An Rinn/Ring these days . There used to be a “ middle infants “ class too. Both were pre-pre school though .

dory

My brother did a 7th class in a Cork city school back in the mid 90s. Not sure if that's still a thing. The boarding Gaelscoil here has/had one as well. As a secondary school teacher I certainly wouldn't mind if they hung on for another bit and were more prepared for the new JC course!

Wanderer78

Hopefully our educational system radically changes after this, but I suspect it won't

shesty

Well the health system could also do with a radical change after all this, but it won't happen either. The huge faults in our public systems have been made glaringly clear, but sure we will dig our heads in the sand, clap ourselves on the back and plough on re-electing the same old bunch of politicians.


We do not do change.

Wanderer78

shesty wrote:

Well the health system could also do with a radical change after all this, but it won't happen either. The huge faults in our public systems have been made glaringly clear, but sure we will dig our heads in the sand, clap ourselves on the back and plough on re-electing the same old bunch of politicians.

Major public services such as, are very complex, so change doesn't come easy, but we certainly don't help ourselves via elections, there's also no guarantees that a radical change in government, will lead to these critical changes

The J Stands for Jay

shesty wrote: »

First thought - Jesus, don't suggest the Department might have to think of ANOTHER thing - they are certainly not managing with the agenda that they have.


Second (more serious) thought - where would you physically put them? As far as I can see most schools in the country are overflowing, where would space be found to put an extra "year" in the infrastructure that is there in every school??

Do 7th class in secondary schools, drop transition year

History Queen

McGaggs wrote: »

Do 7th class in secondary schools, drop transition year

That'd go some of the way towards accommodating them physically but not all schools offer TY and those that do wouldn't typically have 100% take up.

Also what will be the curriculum for 7thclass?

wirelessdude01

Treppen wrote: »

7th Class?

1. Catch up and consolidate for Primary school loss of learning.
2. Hold back the tsunamia of student population due to hit in a couple of years time! Class sizes and pressure for school places are going to be at a max.

Probably cost tonnes of money though

Two real issues, one is physical space and infrastructure to accommodate them and then where are the additional primary teachers coming from?

I know that in most primary schools that 6th class kids are mentally "done" with primary school by around February midterm or if you are lucky you can get them to Easter. It is utter torture trying to get through the months of May and June.

Treppen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Two real issues, one is physical space and infrastructure to accommodate them and then where are the additional primary teachers coming from?

I know that in most primary schools that 6th class kids are mentally "done" with primary school by around February midterm or if you are lucky you can get them to Easter. It is utter torture trying to get through the months of May and June.

Do like they do in Secondary and give em a "very important Summer exam" that will decide their futures for ever.

Smacruairi

McGaggs wrote: »

Do 7th class in secondary schools, drop transition year

Sorry TY is vital for kids. I'll defend it every day of the week. The one time they actually learn skills and how to be members of society rather than leaving cert drones!

Mrsmum

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I know that in most primary schools that 6th class kids are mentally "done" with primary school by around February midterm or if you are lucky you can get them to Easter. It is utter torture trying to get through the months of May and June.

Found this to be true for my children and from discussions with other parents. In sixth class, most children I would say have outgrown primary. Having said that, First year can be a huge jump up for them, all the different subjects etc.

Wanderer78

Treppen wrote: »

Do like they do in Secondary and give em a "very important Summer exam" that will decide their futures for ever.

tis an utterly ridiculous system!

Smacruairi wrote: »

Sorry TY is vital for kids. I'll defend it every day of the week. The one time they actually learn skills and how to be members of society rather than leaving cert drones!

Mrsmum wrote: »

Found this to be true for my children and from discussions with other parents. In sixth class, most children I would say have outgrown primary. Having said that, First year can be a huge jump up for them, all the different subjects etc.

...and again, yet another problem with the current system, believing its largely great for everyone, its not! ive met many kids that literally broke down from ty, yes it works very well for some, but it really doesnt work well for others!

Mrsmum

Wanderer78 wrote: »

tis an utterly ridiculous system!


...and again, yet another problem with the current system, believing its largely great for everyone, its not! ive met many kids that literally broke down from ty, yes it works very well for some, but it really doesnt work well for others!

Eh, I made no reference to TY. My post was in reference to kids having outgrown, imo, primary by the end of sixth year.

The Mighty Quinn

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There is actually such “ a thing,” only found in the likes of An Rinn/Ring these days . There used to be a “ middle infants “ class too. Both were pre-pre school though .

Yep! I did "middle infants" class in Wexford.

1990/1991 Junior Infants
1991/1992 Middle Infants
1992/1993 Senior Infants.

I was 4 starting school, so probably did me no harm.

Wanderer78

Mrsmum wrote: »

Eh, I made no reference to TY. My post was in reference to kids having outgrown, imo, primary by the end of sixth year.

my point being, our educational system has been very rigidly designed, we re actually all very different in many ways, and very similar in other ways of course, but this rigidity produces very dysfunctional outcomes, id argue, our system fails everyone, in many different ways

Mrsmum

Wanderer78 wrote: »

my point being, our educational system has been very rigidly designed, we re actually all very different in many ways, and very similar in other ways of course, but this rigidity produces very dysfunctional outcomes, id argue, our system fails everyone, in many different ways

I see your point but think schools do their best to be as broad as possible. As an example one of mine did TY a few years ago, he is a very quiet guy and certainly not first out the gap to try new things. Some activities he liked, some he didn't, some pushed him out of his comfort zone and the result was good, other things he knows are not for him, some new things were fun or boring or whatever. There was so many different things, I would have thought there was something for everyone. It's awful to hear of children being broken by it.

Smacruairi

Yup, no one should be broken by any year of school. But statistically, those who do ty perform better than those who don't. Also, boys in particular need that extra year of maturity.

wirelessdude01

Wanderer78 wrote: »

tis an utterly ridiculous system!





...and again, yet another problem with the current system, believing its largely great for everyone, its not! ive met many kids that literally broke down from ty, yes it works very well for some, but it really doesnt work well for others!

If you don't mind me asking but how are kids "literally broke from ty"?

sunbeam

All the primary schools near me had Baby Infants back in the 70s and 80s. It was really just a preschool year in the school and kids could start at any time of the year or not do it at all.

This meant that most of us were 13 starting secondary school. In those days our local secondaries were 5 year schools with no transition year.

rainbowtrout

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There is actually such “ a thing,” only found in the likes of An Rinn/Ring these days . There used to be a “ middle infants “ class too. Both were pre-pre school though .

My school in the 80s had middles. There were 3 junior infant classes starting off and I think all the kids that were barely 4 went into one junior infant class and they did middles. There was only 1 middles class, the middles class a year ahead of us joined us in senior infants. Don't know if they still do that.

dory wrote: »

My brother did a 7th class in a Cork city school back in the mid 90s. Not sure if that's still a thing. The boarding Gaelscoil here has/had one as well. As a secondary school teacher I certainly wouldn't mind if they hung on for another bit and were more prepared for the new JC course!

There was at least 1 school in Clare that did that, and possibly a few more as the convent in Ennis only accepted girls who were 13. A friend of mine did 7th class. I often wondered how that worked out with the DES.

rainbowtrout

Also a school some of my friends went to in Limerick City did four years to Junior Cert - not TY.

Again not sure how that worked or how you would not be bored of four years to JC, but they did, and then regular 2 year LC cycle.

wirelessdude01

Was baby and junior infants not just the same class?

Never heard of Middle infants until this thread.

sunbeam

Same as a friend of mine's school, also in Limerick. First year was a sort of transition year where they got to try out lots of subjects and study for the Inter Cert started properly in second year. I think this was common in 6 year secondaries prior to the advent of the post junior cycle transition year.

We had Group Cert in second year Inter Cert in third and the Leaving in fifth. So only two years with long summer holidays.

rainbowtrout

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Was baby and junior infants not just the same class?

Never heard of Middle infants until this thread.

In my school it was, JI was commonly called babies. Had never come across middles outside of my own school until tonight. Had often wondered was it some sort of unique arrangement.

sunbeam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Was baby and junior infants not just the same class?

Never heard of Middle infants until this thread.

No, not in our school. I spent about 2 month's in babies after Easter 1977 and started Juniors the following September, having turned 5 in August.


I have cousins, also born in August, who went to a neighbouring school, and started Baby Infants at age 4 in September. Then on to Juniors at 5. For some bizarre reason their school did first communions in Senior Infants, while we did them in 1st Class.

rainbowtrout

sunbeam wrote: »

Same as a friend of mine's school, also in Limerick. First year was a sort of transition year where they got to try out lots of subjects and study for the Inter Cert started properly in second year. I think this was common in 6 year secondaries prior to the advent of the post junior cycle transition year.

We had Group Cert in second year Inter Cert in third and the Leaving in fifth. So only two years with long summer holidays.

I presume it is the same school. Knew people going to most schools in the city and didn't hear of it anywhere else.

rainbowtrout

sunbeam wrote: »

No, not in our school. I spent about 2 month's in babies after Easter 1977 and started Juniors the following September, having turned 5 in August.


I have cousins, also born in August, who went to a neighbouring school, and started Baby Infants at age 4 in September. Then on to Juniors at 5. For some bizarre reason their school did first communions in Senior Infants, while we did them in 1st Class.

I started school in the early 80s, so it sounds like babies was a loose arrangement that the younger kids went into if they were barely four, and the ones that were coming up on 5 went into proper junior infants. I'd imagine most schools wouldn't have had the numbers to run a separate middles class.

sunbeam

I suspect that some of the extra primary classes may have been the legacy of an era before free secondary education, where some kids might have stayed in primary until 14. I never met anyone who went to a six year secondary school until I started college in 1990.