Women stabbed near IFSC has died

walshb

MrMusician18 wrote: »

If we look at societies that punish crime severely, like the USA, crime is still an issue. Equally we can look at places like Singapore, where crime is also severely punished and crime is quite low.
The issue is likely to be cultural, rather than related to the punishment.

The inner city won't be fixed until the areas are cleared and the population that resides is dispersed as the problem is cultural in those communities

I know we can't fix everywhere and everything

But it is the message we as a civilized society should be sending to our people

That we will come down like a ton of bricks on scum behavior

It is that simple: And right now, that is so far from the case...

This is the issue..

There are scum out there who are career scum, and they are in and out of prison, and are creating havoc for decent people....it's an absolute disgrace

People do not feel safe in their own country, because our justice system does not properly deal with scum who are hurting people.

punisher5112

knucklehead6 wrote: »

There are open cases and people arrested after both these crimes. We really shouldn’t be discussing them here

I see no reason why one can't express there concern, anger and condolences.

walshb

punisher5112 wrote: »

I see no reason why one can't express there concern, anger and condolences.

Exactly....

walshb

wes wrote: »

This is awful. The person who did this should imo spend the rest of there days behind bars. I know the accused is 15, but ffs at that age I knew well enough to not stab someone.

10 years manslaughter and out in 5-6...

That is the reality...

6o9fv7jpreb180

No doubt this child comes from a tough upbringing.

But the reality is, a child in terrible home situation is in a worse predicament than a dog. At least the dog warden might have some chance of rescuing the dog. No way the state would/can rescue some of these children - and anyone who works in education or with children in general knows there are thousands of children who need rescuing in this country. Being brought by horrible, useless and just not bothered parents.

On the other side of the coin, the punishment for dogs is far more severe. Every dog chipped and registered. Fines for ****ting or walking without lead, put down if they attack a person or other animal. Children (anyone under 18), stab someone in the neck and kill them, probably a couple of years in a juvenile detention centre playing playstation. Generally no repercussions for scummy behaviour.

How can we fix the problem? Probably cant be fixed. But if we set the same standards and expectations for humans as we do for dogs, wouldn't the world be better place.

(Yes, I love dogs)

biko

The source
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/uknews/office-cleaner-stabbed-on-way-home-from-work-near-ifsc-in-dublin-sadly-dies/ar-BB1dlNGI


RIP poor woman, such an unnecessary death.
Hope they throw the little **** that murdered her into a volcano.

rolling boh

R I P that poor woman unfortunately we will never have the prison places and resources to lock up anyone who commits any sort of crime for lenghty spells that might in time act as some kind of deterrent. I am raging when guys with dozens of prior convictions get out on bail and of course repeat their crime spree .

walshb

Laney Broad Swinger wrote: »

No doubt this child comes from a tough upbringing.

But the reality is, a child in terrible home situation is in a worse predicament than a dog. At least the dog warden might have some chance of rescuing the dog. No way the state would/can rescue some of these children - and anyone who works in education or with children in general knows there are thousands of children who need rescuing in this country. Being brought by horrible, useless and just not bothered parents.

On the other side of the coin, the punishment for dogs is far more severe. Every dog chipped and registered. Fines for ****ting or walking without lead, put down if they attack a person or other animal. Children (anyone under 18), stab someone in the neck and kill them, probably a couple of years in a juvenile detention centre playing playstation. Generally no repercussions for scummy behaviour.

How can we fix the problem? Probably cant be fixed. But if we set the same standards and expectations for humans as we do for dogs, wouldn't the world be better place.

(Yes, I love dogs)

I couldn't give a fook what home the killer is or is not from

My sympathies lie purely with the poor woman and her family

Evil visited her and took her life...

What is the charge and possible sentence if someone is found carrying a knife?

knucklehead6

you've both been here long enough to know that expressing anger and condolences etc is a short step away from people acting 'in the know' and saying something potentially prejudicial to the cases.

Anyway, i'm not gonna comment anymore incase i get carded for back seat modding

6o9fv7jpreb180

walshb wrote: »

I couldn't give a fook what home the killer is or is not from

My sympathies lie purely with the poor woman and her family

Evil visited her and took her life...

I agree 100%. My point is that these kids need to be supported from a young age..

But once that line is crossed like in this case, severe punishments need to be implemented.

Witcher

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

What is the charge and possible sentence if someone is found carrying a knife?

https://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/1990/act/12/revised/en/html#SEC9

neris

Laney Broad Swinger wrote: »

No doubt this child comes from a tough upbringing.

But the reality is, a child in terrible home situation is in a worse predicament than a dog.

Absolute bull crap. This tough up bringing excuse is used far too often for scum vermin like this. They know right from wrong, they havent just landed here from outer space without knowing how society works.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

I couldn't give a fook what home the killer is or is not from

My sympathies lie purely with the poor woman and her family

Evil visited her and took her life...

I get what Connachtman is saying. The easy solution would be to throw more guards at it and have them batter 7 shades of ****e out of all these scrotes going around doing what they like. **** me I'd love to see it.

But to solve it properly, there needs to be a systemic approach. There is more than one root cause to the issues we see today.

MrMusician18

walshb wrote: »

I know we can't fix everywhere and everything

But it is the message we as a civilized society should be sending to our people

That we will come down like a ton of bricks on scum behavior

It is that simple: And right now, that is so far from the case...

This is the issue..

There are scum out there who are career scum, and they are in and out of prison, and are creating havoc for decent people....it's an absolute disgrace

People do not feel safe in their own country, because our justice system does not properly deal with scum who are hurting people.

Extremely harsh sentences would be a form of societal retribution but it wouldn't solve this issue. The only way it can be stopped is if crime isn't tolerated in the community.

In a typical mugging, they are not investigated fully simply because the resources aren't there, and it's not realistic to expect the resources to ever be there. The only way that kind of behaviour can be policed is within the families, peer groups and community itself, by it being unacceptable behaviour

If it was all about deterrent or the lack thereof, you'd see these issues in wealthier communities too.

Witcher

Witcher wrote: »

https://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/1990/act/12/revised/en/html#SEC9

Thanks Witcher but what is the actual offence? Law speak goes right over my head.

“ 9.— (1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.”

walshb

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Extremely harsh sentences would be a form of societal retribution but it wouldn't solve this issue. The only way it can be stopped is if crime isn't tolerated in the community.

In a typical mugging, they are not investigated fully simply because the resources aren't there, and it's not realistic to expect the resources to ever be there. The only way that kind of behaviour can be policed is within the families, peer groups and community itself, by it being unacceptable behaviour

If it was all about deterrent or the lack thereof, you'd see these issues in wealthier communities too.

Tough sentencing is part of the overall tackling.

It needs to be..

Clearly dangerous recidivist scum need removal permanently from society,,.....end of

So, you commit one serious crime that hurts PEOPLE, you are set away for a long time.....

If released and commit another serious crime.......LIFE!

And murder should be 100 percent life...no chance of release....

ElektroToad

Sickened.

For a cold, callous and senseless violent crime like this against an honest member of society minding their own business?

A case for the return of the death penalty has valid merits, I reckon.

I think a proper conversation needs to be had about these kind of crimes. You are either a person who contributes to our society, or a parasite to be removed.

kildare lad

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

What is the charge and possible sentence if someone is found carrying a knife?

Fxck all, sure a bloke last week got sentenced for knifing a guy 5 times . He'd 45 previous convictions and the judge decided to throw the book at him by giving him a whopping 3 year sentence . Theres no deterrent in this country for violent criminals. I know a few lads that got locked up and all they did was get stoned and play xbox all day . Does that sound like punishment ???

https://www.thesun.ie/news/6465841/mark-pigeon-debt-stabbing-enforcer-brian-rattigan/

betarayjay

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Thanks Witcher but what is the actual offence? Law speak goes right over my head.

“ 9.— (1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.”

obv it depends on the article extensions but in layman's terms if u have a knife with you in public and cant explain why well your guilty of an offence (say a chef working between restaurants and in his bag are his knifes that's an acceptable excuse while if your out shopping and you got a flick knife ... not so much)

MrMusician18

walshb wrote: »

Tough sentencing is part of the overall tackling.

It needs to be..

Clearly dangerous recidivist scum need removal permanently from society,,.....end of

I'm not arguing there. It's just us not possible to clean up an area by removing all the criminals you catch. There will be new ones to replace that one's you pick up and there will be others that will go under the radar/get away to make it a continuing problem.


Heavy sentences can be retribution for society on the individuals, but it won't change anything and it won't improve areas like east wall.

dan1895

Fred Cryton wrote: »

The left dominate the media narrative, which influences whether to build a prison or propose/pass new tougher laws. The judges can only then operate within what laws have been passed by politicians and whatever prison space there is.

Top of the six one news we hear the voices of SF, PBP, Greens, Soc Dems , Labour...every day we get about 5 or 6 left leaning voices on justice dominating and telling us some sob story about how the locals are victims. No wonder the country is such a mess.

So it's the opposition's fault and not that of those who have continually been in government since the foundation of the state?

tdf7187

Fred Cryton wrote: »

The left has taken such control of the media narrative that locking these people up where they can't harm the rest of society has almost become a taboo subject.

Obviously it is dreadful that this poor woman has died, and there is undoubtedly an issue with out-of-control semi-feral youth in some areas of Dublin, but your above statement is nonsense. Even if were true that the left have taken control of the media narrative, the media do not control sentencing, last time I checked. That is the judicial system. And most judges are FF/FG appointees (and to a lesser extent, Labour, which is hardly left wing in the modern era). That is the truth, difficult though it may be for you to accept.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

If we look at societies that punish crime severely, like the USA, crime is still an issue. Equally we can look at places like Singapore, where crime is also severely punished and crime is quite low.
The issue is likely to be cultural, rather than related to the punishment

There is crime still in those places, but there's poverty, too. There are people starving so much so that it's worth robbing someone to try and survive.

In Ireland, even "the homeless" are people who have somewhere to live, but it's not a free pad supplied at no cost to them by the council with a lifetime tenancy guaranteed.

Everyone gets €200 in the pocket each week and if you're stuck for a communion dress or a washing machine, fill in an exceptional needs form and Social Welfare will pay for it.

People steal, attack, rob, etc. in Ireland because there's no punishment, it's a bit of a laugh and they're "having the craic". It's not theft out of necessity, like in other places. A 15 year old, living in a house supplied by the state, with schooling being thrown at him, has no excuse for trying to rob someone, and even less excuse for attacking them.

tdf7187

ElektroToad wrote: »

A case for the return of the death penalty has valid merits, I reckon.

You'd be wasting your time with that argument. The EU has banned the death penalty in all member states. Ireland will not be leaving the EU any time soon. Even in Brexit Britain, there is no talk of re-introducing the death penalty.

walshb

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I'm not arguing there. It's just us not possible to clean up an area by removing all the criminals you catch. There will be new ones to replace that one's you pick up and there will be others that will go under the radar/get away to make it a continuing problem.


Heavy sentences can be retribution for society on the individuals, but it won't change anything and it won't improve areas like east wall.

Like I said, I know you cannot fix everything everywhere

I know this..

Not sure what it has to do with tacking the here and now....the present.....

Keeping dangerous people away from society

And I mean across all areas....not just East Wall and the inner city...and not just knife crime.

We need tough sanctions and sentences on those who commit serious crime....it could not be simpler.....right now this is not the case, and it is clearly not the case...and society suffers because of it...

Look at the disgracefully lenient sentences handed down to some serious crimes.....no wonder people have no fear of committing them when they know they will not be sent away for long stretches...

Real Life

Fred Cryton wrote: »

The left dominate the media narrative, which influences whether to build a prison or propose/pass new tougher laws. The judges can only then operate within what laws have been passed by politicians and whatever prison space there is.

Top of the six one news we hear the voices of SF, PBP, Greens, Soc Dems , Labour...every day we get about 5 or 6 left leaning voices on justice dominating and telling us some sob story about how the locals are victims. No wonder the country is such a mess.

I don't think anyone on the left is campaigning for less punishment for murderers, you're talking about 2 different things.

MrMusician18

dan1895 wrote: »

So it's the opposition's fault and not that of those who have continually been in government since the foundation of the state?

To be fair the issues in these communities go back a long time and much of it can be traced to containerisation of Dublin port and the consequent loss of employment in the dock communities. The right thing to have done was to disperse the inner city population as employment at the port shrunk rather than build large complexes of deprivation to allow this culture to fester.

The cultural issues are a broader topic and shouldn't be used as an excuse for individuals. The broader cultural discussion is only for a broader debate on why we have such ****holes on our cities, and how we can solve the issues that fester in these places.

Jinglejangle69

This infuriates me.

Where is the outcry from our public reps???

Suppose we will get the usual son story of broken home, poor background blah blah blah.

Omackeral

kildare lad wrote: »

Rip to that poor woman

walshb wrote: »

Pure act of evil.

Despicable!

Poor woman.

mick087 wrote: »

Very sad that poor woman's family.
These stories are very sad.

Miranda Purring Steam wrote: »

RIP to the deceased lady.

HildaOgdenx wrote: »

Poor woman, that is shocking news.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

RIP to this poor woman.

Just walking home after finishing her work and this happened to her.

Daisy78 wrote: »

RIP. Poor woman

bocaman wrote: »

RIP that poor woman. So the charge will be upgraded to murder but the guy will be out after seven years.

Just want to say that her name was Urantsetseg Tserendorj, or Umaa to her friends, and that she was a mother of 2. She deserves to have her name said. RIP Umaa