150mm full fill PIR or 200mm pumped cavity

AgnesCalhoun1

150mm full fill PIR or 200mm pumped cavity

Hi, does anyone have any insights into what is better insulating & more cost effective cavity insulation?

BryanF

Comes down to workmanship.

When you get 3 quotes and you take the cheapest, I’d rather pump the 200mm cavity, at least you can follow that with a thermal camera assessment,( assuming there are no massive thermal bridges in the design /construction, but that is the same with the boards)

In short it all comes down to the details with either system. it’s the potential insulation gaps that are the problem, so how are you as the client going to mitigate that risk?

MicktheMan

200mm pumped cavity (certified product)

The Continental Op

Neighbors house they built about 7 years ago did 200mm pumped cavity.

Nice warm house. Owners are away and there is no heating on and I was up there the other day when it was frosty to water the indoor plants and the house wasn't cold.

AgnesCalhoun1

Thanks all for the input. I'd love to see articles or studies that compare these two methods in terms of cost effectiveness and U-value.

Lumen

AgnesCalhoun1 wrote: »

Thanks all for the input. I'd love to see articles or studies that compare these two methods in terms of cost effectiveness and U-value.

That won't help, because those comparisons are not going to use sloppy installation. Even if they measured actual performance in finished houses, how would they control for other factors (e.g. air tightness, heat loss through doors and windows)?

Read BryanF's post again.

"how are you as the client going to mitigate that risk [of poor installation]?"

If the answer is "I don't know", then don't pick the approach (full fill) which is more difficult to get right.

Calahonda52

AgnesCalhoun1 wrote: »

Thanks all for the input. I'd love to see articles or studies that compare these two methods in terms of cost effectiveness and U-value.

Pipe dream.

1. Every house is different
2. every location is different
3. every worker is different
4. every piece of workmanship is different
5. how material is handled/stored on site is different
6. every insulation type is different.
7. etc

so pipe dream.

Any result in such report would be from a lab, under ideal conditions on a 1 m 2 test section.
As BF asked: how are you going to assess and mitigate the risk of it being done wrong and then measure the extent of the wrongness?

I use neither because they are invisible and impossible to correct.

ht9zni1gs28crp

Pumped Cavity can be easily rectified comapared to a PIR infilled cavity.

A quality Pumped Insulation company can certify the bead, plus sign up to an FLir test when house is complete. Easy to locate low spots to top up where necessary.

Even standing over a blocky, the PIR will have gaps.....

Biker1

miller_63 wrote: »

Pumped Cavity can be easily rectified comapared to a PIR infilled cavity.

A quality Pumped Insulation company can certify the bead, plus sign up to an FLir test when house is complete. Easy to locate low spots to top up where necessary.

Even standing over a blocky, the PIR will have gaps.....

While thermal imaging may show anomalies, having the precise conditions is vital for accuracy.
Unfortunately thermal imaging will not determine if the correct bead to glue ratio was used at installation. As the glue is the expensive ingredient it is often spared.

sky6

miller_63 wrote: »

Pumped Cavity can be easily rectified comapared to a PIR infilled cavity.

A quality Pumped Insulation company can certify the bead, plus sign up to an FLir test when house is complete. Easy to locate low spots to top up where necessary.

Even standing over a blocky, the PIR will have gaps.....

I'm reading the post with interest as I'm considering having my Cavity Walls filled this year.

1. How would you rectify a filled cavity if it wasn't done right. Or there was a
problem.
2. How do you identify a good installer, Or where would I find one.

Thanks,

Lumen

Biker1 wrote: »

While thermal imaging may show anomalies, having the precise conditions is vital for accuracy.
Unfortunately thermal imaging will not determine if the correct bead to glue ratio was used at installation. As the glue is the expensive ingredient it is often spared.

Does the glue matter for thermal performance? I thought it was just to prevent the beads leaking out of wall sockets, unducted service penetrations, opes etc. Surely if the airtightness is done right then there shouldn't be any of these until there's a window/door replacement or whatever?

Biker1

Lumen wrote: »

Does the glue matter for thermal performance? I thought it was just to prevent the beads leaking out of wall sockets, unducted service penetrations, opes etc. Surely if the airtightness is done right then there shouldn't be any of these until there's a window/door replacement or whatever?

The glue is required to give the insulation the required density to achieve the stated thermal conductivity. It is in the agrement cert.

Dudda

You could go timeframe and when the structure is up they put on the airtight layer internally and pump the cavity with cellulose. You can walk around yourself and check easily for gaps.

0lddog

miller_63 wrote: »

Pumped Cavity can be easily rectified comapared to a PIR infilled cavity.

A quality Pumped Insulation company can certify the bead, plus sign up to an FLir test when house is complete. Easy to locate low spots to top up where necessary.

Even standing over a blocky, the PIR will have gaps.....

sky6 wrote: »

I'm reading the post with interest as I'm considering having my Cavity Walls filled this year.

1. How would you rectify a filled cavity if it wasn't done right. Or there was a
problem.
2. How do you identify a good installer, Or where would I find one.

Thanks,

Lumen wrote: »

Does the glue matter for thermal performance? I thought it was just to prevent the beads leaking out of wall sockets, unducted service penetrations, opes etc. Surely if the airtightness is done right then there shouldn't be any of these until there's a window/door replacement or whatever?

Biker1 wrote: »

The glue is required to give the insulation the required density to achieve the stated thermal conductivity. It is in the agrement cert.

This is all very interesting to me as I have a house that was ( retro ) pumped with beads in the 80's ( no glue back then )

Would be very grateful for any pointers as to where I can read up on the topic ( glue vs no glue , top up, void detection etc )

somofagun

I was all for pumped cavities untill i seen what had happend where a fire started in the eaves of a house built in 2014. The whole cavity insulaion burned that there was no trace of it. House only suffered roof/first floor damage. Couldnt believe it