Buying a Property to Rent Out Before Moving Abroad

good vibes

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I rented my house out while living abroad. Agent or no agent, you will come back to issues.

Even if they agree to leave, they will have caused **** in the house and it will be for you to fix.

You are supposed to pay tax on the full rental income as a non resident landlord as well (or the tenant pays 20% for you from the rent which always seemed crazy to me).

I'm not saying don't do it as you will have a home to move into on return but it's not the easy money maker every tom, dick and Harry here thinks it is

I totally agree.. Im considering Hap now... Thanks

runawaybishop

Rows Grower wrote: »

No it doesn't.

It's your house and if you want to live in it, want any of your family to live in it or want to sell it at any time nobody can stop you.

If you are in it for the long haul then besides the 4% increase in rent you can request annually you can also stipulate in your contract that you want a rent review either every year or multiples of a year so that your rental income is on par with what other similar properties in the same area are achieving.

Have a chat with a professional who actually knows the game before making any decisions, there's a lot of well intended misinformation out there.

There is a lot of misinformation in this post too. You cannot review the rent multiple times a year and you cannot simply move people out willy nilly. If you agree a 10 year contract you will be stung if you break it.

runawaybishop

good vibes wrote: »

I totally agree.. Im considering Hap now... Thanks

Speak to an expert before you make any decisions. HAP is fraught with issues. Personally you couldn't pay me to get into property management of a single property that's costing me all my capital.

ari101

good vibes wrote: »

Thanks for that.. Yes i will seek independent financial advice..could you give me a little insight into the nuances around tax, residency, domiciliation you mention please...?

I didn't see anyone tackle this, hope I didn't miss it and duplicate info.

Make sure you get someone who understands the tax treaties (or lack thereof) between here and where ever you go. You mention Spain, while there is a double taxation treaty between Ireland and Spain, I know nothing of how it operates.

In more general terms, if you elect to domicile in Spain and are tax resident there, you'll pay tax on the rent here, and depending on the agreement between the countries, may also pay tax on none, some or all of it again there.

There can be great benefits to this with varying tax rates and rules (e.g. if the applicable tax rate for rent was lower abroad than Ireland, and you get a credit for the 20% already paid here), but there can be terrible pitfalls (e.g. getting taxed twice on the same income).

good vibes

runawaybishop wrote: »

There is a lot of misinformation in this post too. You cannot review the rent multiple times a year and you cannot simply move people out willy nilly. If you agree a 10 year contract you will be stung if you break it.

If i break agreement with Hap i can get stung ? How ? It doesn't have to be 10 years.. Il call Hap

good vibes

Rows Grower wrote: »

It's not, speak to a professional financial advisor.

Let me put it this way, if you started a thread on here about how to do DIY brain surgery you would have posters giving you advice.

Il call Hap..

skooterblue2

good vibes wrote: »

Why do you think so ?

Have a look at what is happening globally with the Great Reset.
Have a look at what is happening locally with Cluid, corporation, social housing initiatives Reits etc etc. All property is going to be owned by the state eventually. I am of course against the idea but look how the world is turning. Of course it is all coming in a sugar coated package, ie "the right to accomodation".

then you have the chances of getting nightmare tenants that how social/personality/ etc problems and you cant get rid of them or reclaim your finance. This is all driving Landlords to get out of the market and down REITS

good vibes

ari101 wrote: »

I didn't see anyone tackle this, hope I didn't miss it and duplicate info.

Make sure you get someone who understands the tax treaties (or lack thereof) between here and where ever you go. You mention Spain, while there is a double taxation treaty between Ireland and Spain, I know nothing of how it operates.

In more general terms, if you elect to domicile in Spain and are tax resident there, you'll pay tax on the rent here, and depending on the agreement between the countries, may also pay tax on none, some or all of it again there.

There can be great benefits to this with varying tax rates and rules (e.g. if the applicable tax rate for rent was lower abroad than Ireland, and you get a credit for the 20% already paid here), but there can be terrible pitfalls (e.g. getting taxed twice on the same income).

Very interesting.. thank you.

good vibes

Hello,

Looking for information from landlords renting their house in Dublin through Hap ?
also any landlords renting through Hap living abroad ?

Like to know how it works ? What contracts are there ? what do DCC look for in a property ?
What percentage of the rent do they pay ....rent pressure zones ect..

Any information is appreciated...

Thanks in advance

G.V

good vibes

Hello,

Looking for information from landlords renting their house in Dublin through Hap ?
also any landlords renting through Hap living abroad ?

Like to know how it works ? What contracts are there ? what do DCC look for in a property ?
What percentage of the rent do they pay ....rent pressure zones ect..

Any information is appreciated...

Thanks in advance

G.V

Graham

Mod Note

Threads merged.

When I was letting I explicitly stated that pets are welcome. Because of that I have had the same excellent tenants for well over a decade, dedicated pet owners from Northern Europe who makes gain the house immaculately. Pet owners are often very settled type of people.

Dav010

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When I was letting I explicitly stated that pets are welcome. Because of that I have had the same excellent tenants for well over a decade, dedicated pet owners from Northern Europe who makes gain the house immaculately. Pet owners are often very settled type of people.

I very explicitly stated no pets allowed, after tenants pets destroyed the furniture, doors, & carpets in my house.

Why take the risk?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

When I was letting I explicitly stated that pets are welcome. Because of that I have had the same excellent tenants for well over a decade, dedicated pet owners from Northern Europe who makes gain the house immaculately. Pet owners are often very settled type of people.

or you could get my tenant who allowed her dogs to completely rip up the garden, **** everywhere without ever cleaning it seems, chew and rip the furniture and wood, cause gashes in the wooden floors and stairs with their claws and basically cost me a couple of grand in repairs just for the pets

good vibes

Graham wrote: »

Mod Note

Threads merged.

Hi.
Can i have that last post as a separate thread / post please ?

good vibes

Rows Grower wrote: »

It's not, speak to a professional financial advisor.

Let me put it this way, if you started a thread on here about how to do DIY brain surgery you would have posters giving you advice.

Why would i speak to a financial advisor about Hap? I need to speak with DCC about Hap. Which i will do.

Caranica

good vibes wrote: »

Why would i speak to a financial advisor about Hap? I need to speak with DCC about Hap. Which i will do.

I think you're confused between hap tenancies and letting to the councils.

A hap tenancy is the same as any other tenancy in terms of durations, rent and maintenance. Letting to the council is typically a long term let at a below market rent and in some cases with the council assuming responsibility for maintenance and repairs

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

or you could get my tenant who allowed her dogs to completely rip up the garden, **** everywhere without ever cleaning it seems, chew and rip the furniture and wood, cause gashes in the wooden floors and stairs with their claws and basically cost me a couple of grand in repairs just for the pets

Yeah, it very much depends on the sense of responsibility of the individual/family. My tenants fortunately take extraordinary care of their pets as well as everything, a lot to do with the culture of where they come from. They even repaint walls with spare paint stored from the time of building.

good vibes

Caranica wrote: »

I think you're confused between hap tenancies and letting to the councils.

A hap tenancy is the same as any other tenancy in terms of durations, rent and maintenance. Letting to the council is typically a long term let at a below market rent and in some cases with the council assuming responsibility for maintenance and repairs

Il not confused.. I don't know how it works !... That is why im seeking advice !

JimmyVik

OP I tokk over a year to research exactly what you are trying to do.
My conclusion was that I could not make the risk/reward equation balance.
And also that it only looks like its going to lean more to the risk side as time passes.
So I decided not to go down that road.
Just invested spare cash in the markets.
Glad I did.

Caranica

good vibes wrote: »

Il not confused.. I don't know how it works !... That is why im seeking advice !

You asked about reduced rates for hap rentals. That's mixing up the two. My post gives a quick summary of the differences between the two schemes. The Citizens Information website has more information

BnB

Catglee wrote: »

I'd see a good financial advisor.

If I were advising you I'd stick it in a medium risk fund, such as an ifund, which should make about 6% per annum.
Id say you are around 30 years of age?... At that, by the time you are 60 that fund will have grown to approx 1.3m...and while these funds do have peaks and dips they do avg out over a long period of time.
Now say you are 25 years old, by 60 that fund will have grown to circa 1.8m.....the power of compounding interest my friend.
With a starting pot of 235k I'd def let compound interest take care of it... Its never late on rent and won't burst its pipes.
BTW I do have an investment property.!!

Firstly - I'd start by saying, overall the best advice on the thread here is to talk to a trusted professional. I think that is a 100% must.

But apart from that, if you were to make a decision just on advice from this thread, without going to a professional, then I'd agree with the poster quoted above. I would stick the money in a low to medium risk fund and let it accumulate away while you get on with your life. Low to Medium risk means you won't ever make mad returns of 20 or 30 %. But likewise, in the event of an economic crash, you should be fairly well cocooned.

You should get a nice steady 5-8% p/a. If you can agree to lock in the money for a long period like 10 years (i.e. You can't then access the money in those 10 years if you want it) , then you may even be able to do better than that.

The calculator below gives you an idea of what your money would accumulate to over time

https://www.calculator.net/investment-calculator.html

RE Buying a buy-to-let property..... I would agree with the majority of posters here. Given your current plans, I think it would be crazy.

I think Rows Grower did make some very good points about it possibly not being as bad as some would make out, especially if you are willing to put the work into it and not see it as a quick buck or money for nothing. But, at the end of the day, buy-to-let is a business and you have to treat it as such. Would you buy a pub or a dry cleaners or a shop or any other business and then just ask a friend to look after it while you move abroad ? Of course you wouldn't.... you would want to stay around to protect your investment.

Catglee

Neagra wrote: »

https://www.pensionproperty.ie/

you choose the property and the letting agent.
all rental income after expenses is tax free and goes into the pension
on retirement you can take out 25% lump which is tax free after that as you draw down you are taxed.
the great advantage is exempt from capital gains tax
its a no brainer

i would recommend itc and wealth options but you can also use zurich.
i would also advise buying 2 properties, spread a little of the risk

Wealth options as a recommendation?? Did I read something recently about them selling unregulated products and a NR of court actions being taken by unhappy clients??

Thoie

good vibes wrote: »

Does it have to be 10 years ?

It looks like it's changed a bit since I last looked into it, and is now 10-25 years. This page gives an overview. If you click the arrows beside the descriptions of each you can get more details. It looks like the "standard long term lease" is the one where the local authority takes care of the day to day maintenance.

https://www.housingagency.ie/housing-information/information-property-owners-and-landlords

The standard lease template is here: https://www.housingagency.ie/sites/default/files/2020-04/Standard-Long-Term-Leasing/Lease-template-LTL-Not-Managed-Development-HNM38.2019.pdf

There's no mention of being able to take back the property under the "usual" methods of wanting to sell, or have a family member move in, and it specifically says it's not under the RTA. Rent review is only every 3 years.

I eventually sold my last place rather than going down that route, as I needed the proceeds from the sale for my deposit for the new place. By doing that I "lost" money (sold for less than I'd originally paid). If I hadn't needed to sell for the deposit, I was definitely considering this. It wouldn't be a money maker in and of itself, but would have allowed me to hold on the original property until prices had come back to what I'd originally paid for it. I don't fancy being a landlord, with the day to day involvement necessary, so it looked like a good fit for me.

If you don't mind being the day to day landlord, then the RAS (also in the first link) is a 4-10 year lease. That's the one that pays 92-95% of market rates.

good vibes

Thanks for the reply,

With RAS you have to sign up for a minimum of 10 years , so that’s out...I spoke to Dublin city council about both Schemes,
with the Hap scheme they said you’re guaranteed the rent but when I asked what about the information on the website which said that they will stop payment if the tenant stops payment of their portion of the rent ?.
they couldn’t give me an answer about that ? So it’s not guaranteed! ..


Thats misleading information ...

The Student

good vibes wrote: »

Thanks for the reply,

With RAS you have to sign up for a minimum of 10 years , so that’s out...I spoke to Dublin city council about both Schemes,
with the Hap scheme they said you’re guaranteed the rent but when I asked what about the information on the website which said that they will stop payment if the tenant stops payment of their portion of the rent ?.
they couldn’t give me an answer about that ? So it’s not guaranteed! ..


Thats misleading information ...

I think they stopped (I heard this don't know if its true) the RAS to new tenants a couple of years ago as the council were on the hook for the rent. This is why they were pushing HAP.

good vibes

The Student wrote: »

I think they stopped (I heard this don't know if its true) the RAS to new tenants a couple of years ago as the council were on the hook for the rent. This is why they were pushing HAP.

Yes that’s true...it’s hard to know if I should buy now are not...do you think the market will crash as sine people are speculating? There’s so little available it’s hard to see how ?

good vibes

Hi there,

I’m Considering buying a house in Dublin at the moment for cash ,im wondering what peoples thoughts are on buying a house in the current housing market ?

Seeing as there is so little available on the market at this time , should I wait to buy ?

What do people think the market will be like in a years time ?
Are we heading for a crash ? Its difficult to see that happening in a year as there is
so little on the market & the value on houses / apartments are increasing ....


Thanks in advance..

thefridge2006

good vibes wrote: »

Hi there,

I’m Considering buying a house in Dublin at the moment for cash ,im wondering what peoples thoughts are on buying a house in the current housing market ?

Seeing as there is so little available on the market at this time , should I wait to buy ?

What do people think the market will be like in a years time ?
Are we heading for a crash ? Its difficult to see that happening in a year as there is
so little on the market & the value on houses / apartments are increasing ....


Thanks in advance..

The best advice I can give you would be not to listen to anyone on the internet especially not this forum. This place is full of property bulls and bears.

I'm not giving you advice but i personally think there will be a big pop and a lot of negative equity floating around that will make 08 look easy.

The Student

good vibes wrote: »

Yes that’s true...it’s hard to know if I should buy now are not...do you think the market will crash as sine people are speculating? There’s so little available it’s hard to see how ?

For what it's worth here is my personal view. Until the whole working from home (WFH) situation is decided the property market cant function. Some people buy/rent in areas for work reasons.

These same people would live elsewhere if given the choice.

I don't think the market will crash as we still have a shortage of property to meet demand. I foresee a levelling off in prices in the main cities as the demand assuming WFH (even some of the time becomes the norm).

I would suggest you buy where you want to live longterm.

On a final note being a landlord is not easy no matter how easy those who have never been a landlord tell you. If you get the right tenant it can be easy. If however you get a rogue tenant it will be a nightmare.

Not everyone has what it takes to be a landlord. Remember being a landlord is a business pure and simple. Make all your decisions using your head.

Best of luck in whatever choice you make.