What would you do with €130K in savings as a 30 year old?

rapul

Lot of ignorance here, bitcoin would have been a good investment for the OP let alone anyone else to be honest.

The J Stands for Jay

rapul wrote: »

Lot of ignorance here, bitcoin would have been a good investment for the OP let alone anyone else to be honest.

Yeah, but only in hindsight

rapul

McGaggs wrote: »

Yeah, but only in hindsight

Not necessarily.
Someone pretty big just pumped 1.5 billion in.

Tar.Aldarion

There is a difference between a tweet and his company buying 1.5 billion of something and accepting payments for their cars in it.

rapul

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

There is a difference between a tweet and his company buying 1.5 billion of something and accepting payments for their cars in it.

This.

People just don't seem to understand, ignorance is bliss ay!

Bigfatmichael

Take a couple months off work and go travel the world if they allow it.

If your happy where you are living rent or mortgage free don't bother with getting a mortgage just for the sake of it.

I wouldn't bother maxing out your pension if your single and no kids or wife especially at your age. Do you really want a ton of money tied up till your 65 and die with it in the bank account.

Buy yourself nice clothes, nice peripherals but don't bother with a new car, biggest depreciating asset you can own.

Invest 20% of it into the stock market on good stocks with different ranges. Don't invest it all in technology.

Enjoy the money, live like a king. Coke and Hookers FTW.

OEP

Cryptos should be seen more as investing in an emerging technology as opposed to a currency. There is ignorance on both sides of the argument. But when people say they have no use, that is complete ignorance - just start looking into DeFi. Most of the coins are useless, but some like Ethereum could prove to be revolutionary. Like any emerging tech, it is a very risky investment. Some form of crypto will become commonplace in the future, and you are naïve if you don't think that. We're going to have driverless cars, drones, IOT devices in the next few decades and digital currency makes sense for these. That does not mean it will be one of the ones currently available, these should be seen as 1st / 2nd generation and it may take many iterations until the right one is developed.

mrasgar

My generic plan for anyone with money and a job:

0. Cash keep some thousand quid cash in the bank/building society, enough to survive on for 6-12 months (more if you're conservative).

1. Maximise pension contributions: and invest that money into well-rated ethical funds in less overpriced (P/E ratio and so on) and higher potential growth markets like Eastern Europe, Asia-Pacific (especially their small to mid-cap stocks if you can find such funds) and in clean energy. The earlier you buy stocks the more you're likely to make.

2. Buy a house an affordable, decent size house in an area you wouldn't mind living in and coming back to, both in the short term and long-term if all goes wrong. Ideally in cash, otherwise with as small a mortgage as possible that you pay off quick in 5-10 years (though the term may be longer, to keep monthly payments low). Live in it (as often as you can if your job involves travel) and if you find good lodgers use the tax-free 14k/year allowance for additional income or mortgage overpayments, as applicable.

3. Invest after you have a paid-off house, decide how comfortable and convenient it is for you to buy a 2nd house close by (more hands on), vs investing in the stock market (easier to buy and forget). For both, use the same principles of affordability, long-term value, then growth, as opposed to going after the latest fashionable trends as this risks losing more of your money (even though these will give some people higher returns in the short term, most people lose money). And don't invest all of your spare money (perhaps 2/3rds), even if you think certain markets are safe and inexpensive, because you can always buy more if/when there's a recession and fall in prices. Don't borrow to invest.

^^

Good advice, and one of the best ways for most people to generate wealth.

JibJabWibWab

mrasgar wrote: »

My generic plan for anyone with money and a job:

0. Cash keep some thousand quid cash in the bank/building society, enough to survive on for 6-12 months (more if you're conservative).

1. Maximise pension contributions: and invest that money into well-rated ethical funds in less overpriced (P/E ratio and so on) and higher potential growth markets like Eastern Europe, Asia-Pacific (especially their small to mid-cap stocks if you can find such funds) and in clean energy. The earlier you buy stocks the more you're likely to make.

2. Buy a house an affordable, decent size house in an area you wouldn't mind living in and coming back to, both in the short term and long-term if all goes wrong. Ideally in cash, otherwise with as small a mortgage as possible that you pay off quick in 5-10 years (though the term may be longer, to keep monthly payments low). Live in it (as often as you can if your job involves travel) and if you find good lodgers use the tax-free 14k/year allowance for additional income or mortgage overpayments, as applicable.

3. Invest after you have a paid-off house, decide how comfortable and convenient it is for you to buy a 2nd house close by (more hands on), vs investing in the stock market (easier to buy and forget). For both, use the same principles of affordability, long-term value, then growth, as opposed to going after the latest fashionable trends as this risks losing more of your money (even though these will give some people higher returns in the short term, most people lose money). And don't invest all of your spare money (perhaps 2/3rds), even if you think certain markets are safe and inexpensive, because you can always buy more if/when there's a recession and fall in prices. Don't borrow to invest.

The 3 point plan is 0, 1, 2, 3... and based on what OP has posted, not one point is applicable. *awkward silence*

McGiver

mrasgar wrote:

1. Maximise pension contributions: and invest that money into well-rated ethical funds in less overpriced (P/E ratio and so on) and higher potential growth markets like Eastern Europe, Asia-Pacific (especially their small to mid-cap stocks if you can find such funds) and in clean energy. The earlier you buy stocks the more you're likely to make.

How to do that?
Are you assuming retirement in Ireland?

McGiver

Stark wrote:

ETFs are taxed higher at 41% and they also have this really annoying 8 year "deemed disposal" rule so calculating the tax can be quite burdensome for a retail investor

Thanks, I wasn't aware. 41% is a daylight robbery.
I've checked the deemed disposal thing - insane stuff - it's basically an upfront taxation! Why ETFs are subjected to this beating by the Revenue doesn't make sense to me.

As a blown-in, I find the income tax system here unbalanced and convoluted, let's say. CGT is way too high for retail investors, given that you get very little back (in services or infrastructure). Yet Google Facebook Starbucks Amazon pay almost 0% tax.

Where I'm from, CGT is flat 15% for all instruments (stocks, etf, bonds, funds, cfds whatever) held less than 6 months. But for long term retail investors (>6 months holding time) it's zero tax.

Too high CGT discourages people investing. So they either keep cash or invest in non- or less liquid assets. Not great overall (I'd say it could fuel property bubble and exacerbate property shortages).

Rob2D

OEP wrote: »

Cryptos should be seen more as investing in an emerging technology as opposed to a currency.

Agreed. So many show their ignorance by attacking all crypto as useless made up currencies that will go nowhere.
I wonder how shocked would they be to discover that, in the current Top 10 crypto's, NONE of them are currencies specifically except for DODGE. Funnily enough. And that's only there because the meme is trending.

The current crypto space is actually much more similar to the dot com bubble of the 90's. Not all will survive, but those savvy enough to pick out the ones that do have the potential to do very well for themselves indeed.

OP could do a lot worse than investigating the crypto market IMO.

mrasgar

McGiver wrote: »

How to do that?
Are you assuming retirement in Ireland?

There are funds you can buy within your pension provider, which target specific markets, industries, and types of stocks. Funds typically hold 50-100 stocks in them (buying specific stocks is best left to the experts, as most people lose money when they don't diversity enough).

For example here's a list of funds from Aviva: aviva-fundcentre.longboatanalytics.com

The J Stands for Jay

McGiver wrote: »

How to do that?
Are you assuming retirement in Ireland?

The pension providers has various funds which may meet those requirements. Of they don't, there are a few of those pension providers who allow self directed investment. People usually assume this means buying individual shares or residential properties, but they can be used to invest in ETFs (without the ridiculous tax and admin burden), investment trusts, SICAVs, etc. You'll definitely be able to find an ETF that meets your requirement.

Jim2007

Jim2007 wrote: »

It is not the same at all, art works have a price as far as the owners are concerned - the amount the insurers are willing to pay in the even of the piece being damaged, stolen or lost. And it is not a currency so there is not possibility for currency speculation involved.

So you admit bitcoin is a currency, which clearly has value. And one's man's much praised Turner's prize winner is another man's messy bedroom.

Look, anyone that thinks crypto like Bitcoin doesn't have value (regardless of basis) is a fool, one that probably is bitter about not buying them for less than $3k when they are now nearing $50k. It might sooth their sense of self worth for missing out, to dismiss the likes of bitcoin. They are only fooling themselves and their fellow deluded.

Rob2D

Rob2D wrote: »

The current crypto space is actually much more similar to the dot com bubble of the 90's.

Bitcoin is something I've only ever got as far as 'I wonder' when it comes to buying. IF/When, and it may actually be considered a safe haven, there's a serious correction I would consider bitcoin as an investment IF it drops.

Stan27

Id invest or go towards buying a house

But if you havent travelled id take time off work and travel for a few months.

The J Stands for Jay

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you admit bitcoin is a currency, which clearly has value. And one's man's much praised Turner's prize winner is another man's messy bedroom.

Look, anyone that thinks crypto like Bitcoin doesn't have value (regardless of basis) is a fool, one that probably is bitter about not buying them for less than $3k when they are now nearing $50k. It might sooth their sense of self worth for missing out, to dismiss the likes of bitcoin. They are only fooling themselves and their fellow deluded.

Crypto and fiat currencies are all essentially valueless other than that there's an expectation that someone will be willing to exchange it for something of value. The main difference between fiat and crypto is that people have been believing in fiat for their whole lives (some likely still think it entitles them to an amount of fold from a central bank), and that taxes are payable in specified fiat currency. While currency has a value, it is still "worthless". This worthlessness doesn't matter unless you believe that everyone will suddenly no longer believe it has a value, or of its value relative to the items you need (whether they are another currency, food, raw materials, etc) fluctuates too much for your needs.

At the current moment in its young life, crypto doesn't have as much utility as a means of exchange as it would need to gain widespread acceptance. The current price seems too high, and someone will get burned when there's a correction. Who knows when this will be. Like someone mentioned, it's likely that most coins will go the way of the early car or aircraft manufacturers, forgotten by history, leaving losses for their owners. If crypto does catch on (and I believe it will, but probably not one of the current projects), there will likely be one winner and a bloodbath amongst the loosers.

There is money to be made, and I have dabbled in the past, but for most, the gains will be made at someone else's expense. Recommending investing a portion of someone's wealth in crypto is similar to recommending a portion to penny stocks and day trading. It can work, but only as a small portion and only if actively managed. Not everyone wants to work daily on their investments.

DaveQuinn2020

Some good advice here Op.

As a CFP, here is my 2 cents worth

1) Maximise pension contributions. Tax relief on the way in, and tax free growth (which is an underrated advantage in my view). Employer / company contributions are much more efficient than personal contributions if thats an option.

2) Low Cost Index Funds - Vanguard / iShares (Blackrock) or other with good global diversification. Watch the Tax, as tax on ETF's is complicated if you are not using a life assurance company.

3) Try not to get sucked into the latest investment mania (Crypto, some tech, Tesla etc). A well diversified portfolio, with an eye on value, will serve you well long term. The other options are speculative.

4) Have a plan, and stick to it. Think about your next 10 years and make deliberate decisions. Pay a fee-only advisor to help with this. If you are not paying for the advice up-front by way of a fee, you are paying for it elsewhere through commissions and higher charges.

5) Keep it simple.

McGaggs

McGaggs wrote: »

Crypto and fiat currencies are all essentially valueless other than that there's an expectation that someone will be willing to exchange it for something of value. The main difference between fiat and crypto is that people have been believing in fiat for their whole lives (some likely still think it entitles them to an amount of fold from a central bank), and that taxes are payable in specified fiat currency. While currency has a value, it is still "worthless". This worthlessness doesn't matter unless you believe that everyone will suddenly no longer believe it has a value, or of its value relative to the items you need (whether they are another currency, food, raw materials, etc) fluctuates too much for your needs.

At the current moment in its young life, crypto doesn't have as much utility as a means of exchange as it would need to gain widespread acceptance. The current price seems too high, and someone will get burned when there's a correction. Who knows when this will be. Like someone mentioned, it's likely that most coins will go the way of the early car or aircraft manufacturers, forgotten by history, leaving losses for their owners. If crypto does catch on (and I believe it will, but probably not one of the current projects), there will likely be one winner and a bloodbath amongst the loosers.

There is money to be made, and I have dabbled in the past, but for most, the gains will be made at someone else's expense. Recommending investing a portion of someone's wealth in crypto is similar to recommending a portion to penny stocks and day trading. It can work, but only as a small portion and only if actively managed. Not everyone wants to work daily on their investments.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. Nor would I suggest the OP to invest in something I've not done myself.

The J Stands for Jay

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. Nor would I suggest the OP to invest in something I've not done myself.

I didn't think you would. I was just thinking you and jim2007 were both sort of on the same page, but at the same time not.

Sometimes I think that a lot of disagreements on this type of discussion are down to differing interpretations of the useage of words like 'value' and 'worth'.

patsy_mccabe

DaveQuinn2020 wrote: »

Some good advice here Op.

As a CFP, here is my 2 cents worth

1) Maximise pension contributions. Tax relief on the way in, and tax free growth (which is an underrated advantage in my view). Employer / company contributions are much more efficient than personal contributions if thats an option.

2) Low Cost Index Funds - Vanguard / iShares (Blackrock) or other with good global diversification. Watch the Tax, as tax on ETF's is complicated if you are not using a life assurance company.

3) Try not to get sucked into the latest investment mania (Crypto, some tech, Tesla etc). A well diversified portfolio, with an eye on value, will serve you well long term. The other options are speculative.

4) Have a plan, and stick to it. Think about your next 10 years and make deliberate decisions. Pay a fee-only advisor to help with this. If you are not paying for the advice up-front by way of a fee, you are paying for it elsewhere through commissions and higher charges.

5) Keep it simple.

Good informed advice here OP. Forget the next best thing. The laws of economics have never changed, despite what some would have you believe.

HillCloudHop

Are Investment Trusts a legitimate alternative to ETFs if I want to avoid a messy tax situation?
Micromanaging individual stocks doesn't appeal to me at all.

HillCloudHop

HillCloudHop wrote: »

Are Investment Trusts a legitimate alternative to ETFs if I want to avoid a messy tax situation?
Micromanaging individual stocks doesn't appeal to me at all.

Yes.

50 per cent in cash behind skirting board
50 per cent to gold ( coins only )
One guy from Robinhood killed him self after lost everything on stocks.First bird gone the next ones will be fly from roofs as Great Depression time.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/08/robinhood-sued-by-family-of-alex-kearns-20-year-old-trader-who-killed-himself-.html
Sometimes better lose something than everything.

Timmaay

[Deleted User] wrote: »

50 per cent in cash behind skirting board
50 per cent to gold ( coins only )
One guy from Robinhood killed him self after lost everything on stocks.First bird gone the next ones will be fly from roofs as Great Depression time.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/08/robinhood-sued-by-family-of-alex-kearns-20-year-old-trader-who-killed-himself-.html
Sometimes better lose something than everything.

Troll

The J Stands for Jay

[Deleted User] wrote: »

50 per cent in cash behind skirting board
50 per cent to gold ( coins only )
One guy from Robinhood killed him self after lost everything on stocks.First bird gone the next ones will be fly from roofs as Great Depression time.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/08/robinhood-sued-by-family-of-alex-kearns-20-year-old-trader-who-killed-himself-.html
Sometimes better lose something than everything.

That person was dealing in options, not stocks/shares. Completely irrelevant here.

The first at all dont keep 130K at one account because accounts only secured up to 100K
But because government could change his mind at any time keep half away from any financial institution.
Never listen those who want your money to make you rich
Same as you not share your woman with anybody else same dont share your money.
Good luck !

Learpholl

DaveQuinn2020 wrote: »

2) Low Cost Index Funds - Vanguard / iShares (Blackrock) or other with good global diversification. Watch the Tax, as tax on ETF's is complicated if you are not using a life assurance company.

Sorry for the potentially stupid question but I'm new to all of this and had planned on investing on ETFs until I read more on here about the tax complications, but any chance you could explain how a life assurance company could help with this?

cronos

Learpholl wrote: »

Sorry for the potentially stupid question but I'm new to all of this and had planned on investing on ETFs until I read more on here about the tax complications, but any chance you could explain how a life assurance company could help with this?

I assume he's referring to a PRSA which people often contribute to through their employer.

AndrewJRenko

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The first at all dont keep 130K at one account because accounts only secured up to 100K
But because government could change his mind at any time keep half away from any financial institution.

You know that Governments can also change their mind about the cash you have behind the skirting board?

https://www.mapsofindia.com/my-india/government/why-has-the-inr-500-note-been-abolished

And then there is inflation...

The J Stands for Jay

Learpholl wrote: »

Sorry for the potentially stupid question but I'm new to all of this and had planned on investing on ETFs until I read more on here about the tax complications, but any chance you could explain how a life assurance company could help with this?

Life assurance companies can allow you to purchase ETFs through their products, either pensions or savings. For pensions, there's no exit tax to worry about, and for savings the life assurance company looks after the administration of the exit tax for you (and the deemed disposal is only on every 8th anniversary of the life assurance product rather than each individual ETF purchase).

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You know that Governments can also change their mind about the cash you have behind the skirting board?

https://www.mapsofindia.com/my-india/government/why-has-the-inr-500-note-been-abolished

And then there is inflation...

Inflation is when no goods in shops and plenty money in people pockets.We don't have problems with goods in shops and we have plenty people with no noney.To be honest I see deflation at the moment same as ECB.I wouldnt invest money to ETF and stocks at the moment due with bubbles on markets.As I said before better lose less than everything.At the moment the cash and gold the best for next couple years.Real gold I mean,coins not bricks.

djan

Deleted User wrote: »

Inflation is when no goods in shops and plenty money in people pockets.We don't have problems with goods in shops and we have plenty people with no noney.To be honest I see deflation at the moment same as ECB.I wouldnt invest money to ETF and stocks at the moment due with bubbles on markets.As I said before better lose less than everything.At the moment the cash and gold the best for next couple years.Real gold I mean,coins not bricks.

Inflation occurs when money is being printed, this is happening worldwide as countries are struggling with mounting debts.

Am truly surprised no large scale crash has happened apart from the momentary blip around march.

Definitely would be diversifying with a good % in cash ready.

djan

djan wrote: »

Inflation occurs when money is being printed, this is happening worldwide as countries are struggling with mounting debts.

Am truly surprised no large scale crash has happened apart from the momentary blip around march.

Definitely would be diversifying with a good % in cash ready.

Can you tell me please were I can get some freshly printed money for free ? Same as other people ?
Let's think about when support of economy will be ended.Once central banks will bring rates up the markets will be down,once they will down the invested money will start burn .
Today bubles will not be tolerated by central banks for long.

cronos

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you tell me please were I can get some freshly printed money for free ?

Depends if you are a US citizen.

piwyudo0fhn57b

Buy a house of your own. Or travel, start traveling, working and living across the world.

mrasgar

For people expecting stock market crashes due to inflation/money printing: traditional wisdom would suggest that assets like land, houses, and business (and their stocks) would inflate over time.

Why do you expect the reverse, i.e. a drop in stock prices?

Prices go down when people sell their stocks. If people sell businesses/stocks, where would they park their money in an inflationary environment? In the bank (and lose value through negative rates and inflation)? What would they buy instead? Everything else is already bought or overbought, and as good/growing businesses will continue to make money they're much safer bets.

My prediction is we'll see no major stock market crashes from current market levels in the next few years (apart from very short blips like around March 2020 in case of unforeseen events), at least not outside of slower growing economies like US/UK.

The J Stands for Jay

mrasgar wrote: »

My prediction is we'll see no major stock market crashes from current market levels in the next few years (apart from very short blips like around March 2020 in case of unforeseen events), at least not outside of slower growing economies like US/UK.

When I see predictions like this, I start to get worried.

I regurgitate the news

Put it into crypto, gold and silver

You're savings will be devalued a lot in the coming years with the money printing so protect yourself and profit from it

Sydney Melted Studio

Sydney Melted Studio wrote: »

Buy a house of your own. Or travel, start traveling, working and living across the world.

It will be difficult have a house and travel for work across the world.It will be also too hard do it during this hard times of Covid.But your point is really good.

Unfortunately many people does not understand that mortgage and house when they have no family is anchor.

Same as they believe that they will have profit from ETF until end of them life without any risk.The more them will put money in stock market the less inflation we will have in future.Because the less people will be very rich the more people will have no money.

The today advertisement of ETFs,apps of stock markets,pension funds reminds me Colgate toothpaste.Once you will use it your tooth will always white,protected and you will never see dentist !

I regurgitate the news

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

Put it into crypto, gold and silver

You're savings will be devalued a lot in the coming years with the money printing so protect yourself and profit from it

The people who printing money does not want them money devalued ! And people who control central banks does not want this too !

Cash and gold coins because if you will need money you will only have sell the coin not cut the brick.

dubrov

Revolution 1917 wrote:

The people who printing money does not want them money devalued ! And people who control central banks does not want this too !

That's like saying people who withdraw money at an ATM do not want their current account balance to drop.

One is an inevitable consequence of the other.

In saying that though, the gold ship may have already sailed

dubrov

dubrov wrote: »

the gold ship may have already sailed

No if we talking about save money not secure investment.
Other words look at price dynamics since 2011 ( when I actually started put money in gold )
And today prices
Perfect cover from inflation ! Plus profit ! Safe profit !

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

Inflation is when no goods in shops and plenty money in people pockets.We don't have problems with goods in shops and we have plenty people with no noney.To be honest I see deflation at the moment same as ECB.I wouldnt invest money to ETF and stocks at the moment due with bubbles on markets.As I said before better lose less than everything.At the moment the cash and gold the best for next couple years.Real gold I mean,coins not bricks.

Inflation is when your euro behind the skirting board is worth less this year than last year. Ireland has had low but fairly steady inflation over the past decade.

Deleted User wrote: »

No if we talking about save money not secure investment.
Other words look at price dynamics since 2011 ( when I actually started put money in gold )
And today prices
Perfect cover from inflation ! Plus profit ! Safe profit !

How much profit have you made since 2011?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Inflation is when your euro behind the skirting board is worth less this year than last year. Ireland has had low but fairly steady inflation over the past decade.





How much profit have you made since 2011?

Your information incorrect,I dont remember 1550 dollars prices in 2020 .It looks like you far way from investment in gold and you dont know what is inflation is.

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

Your information incorrect,I dont remember 1550 dollars prices in 2020 .It looks like you far way from investment in gold and you dont know what is inflation is.

Here's what inflation is; https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inflation.asp

A decline in the purchasing power of currency over time.

Are all these charts all wrong as well?

https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart

https://www.gold.org/goldhub/data/gold-prices

Everyone's out of step except you?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Here's what inflation is; https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inflation.asp

A decline in the purchasing power of currency over time.

Are all these charts all wrong as well?

https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart

https://www.gold.org/goldhub/data/gold-prices

Everyone's out of step except you?

I just would not like explaining the truth to person who operate other sources theories.Lets say you are right.

In nearest future we will see plenty posts with questions from new born investors about how get money lost trough ETF back.

I am finished here.Best of luck to all !

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

I just would not like explaining the truth to person who operate other sources theories.Lets say you are right.

In nearest future we will see plenty posts with questions from new born investors about how get money lost trough ETF back.

I am finished here.Best of luck to all !

I'm not operating theories here. I'm presenting facts.