Ronan plans to sell €960,000 apartment to council for social housing

CrazyFather1

The cost of buying the house is fairly irrelvant, the council has no other option. I keep going back to it but if they have a house for 40-50 years and the council is getting rent all the time it will pay for itself. If no rent then it is a bottomless pit

MadYaker

Do people in social housing pay rent? I thought it was for people who can't afford rent for whatever reason.

yabadabado

MadYaker wrote: »

Do people in social housing pay rent? I thought it was for people who can't afford rent for whatever reason.

They are supposed to pay rent ...

colm_mcm

Any chance Mr. Ronan is doing a bit of trolling?

Gatling

MadYaker wrote: »

Do people in social housing pay rent? I thought it was for people who can't afford rent for whatever reason.

Mostly yeah but there is something like 100 million in unpaid rents and arrears owed to mainly local authorities

thegills

whippet wrote:

because we developed ghettos of unemployment, crime and drug usage with this policy in the 70s & 80's

Also because social housing recipients have a right to a house in a neighbourhood of their choice

Pete_Cavan

kildare lad wrote: »

Jesus , We we're building 3 bed semis in 2002 and they were selling for 150,000. And we were on good money aswell . That's some money now for a building a town house, when you take the amount of material that go into them . Still a lot cheaper than 700,000 for a two bed apartment.

Building a house yo today's standards is very different to 2002. A heat pump is almost a requirement now, a modern hot water cylinder is a different beast entirely. The house has to be airtight for the whole lot to work (proper sealing of junctions, around windows, etc.) and verified with a test. BCAR requires much more administration and crucially requires everyone to actually put their names to it as work having been done to the regulations. Multi unit blocks also have further complications with acoustic separation (also tested) and fire spread.

CrazyFather1

MadYaker wrote: »

Do people in social housing pay rent? I thought it was for people who can't afford rent for whatever reason.

Yes of course they are....they are given money to pay the rent, except they take the money and don't pay the rent. Kind of crazy if you think about it. The council should just take the money direct from the government instead of giving to the tenant......it's not like they can evict them when they don't pay rent

yabadabado

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Yes of course they are....they are given money to pay the rent, except they take the money and don't pay the rent. Kind of crazy if you think about it. The council should just take the money direct from the government instead of giving to the tenant......it's not like they can evict them when they don't pay rent

I don't know why rent isn't taken at source especially when you hear about the amount of arrears owed.
Wouldn't it be a straight forward to take it from anyone who is in receipt of a social welfare payment.

Vestiapx

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Feck all Irish people actually live in these blocks. Why would you? If you had the approval to spend 700k on a property, what would you rather? A spacious 4 bed semi in Foxrock? Or a flat in town?

Few to any Irish people live in the likes of Grand Canal Dock, the vast majority of the properties are rented to either

a- Europeans who work in Google, Facebook etc. Many of these people are actually on very poor money, but they are odd fcukers and have no issue paying 900 per month for a room

b- Brazillians living 12 to a flat

A 4 bed in foxrock for 700k ?

Donald Trump

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Nonsense. Look at the SCSI House Rebuild Calculator, they have the cost for rebuilding a 3 bed terraced house in Dublin as close to €200k without Built-In Wardrobes or Fences/Walls;

https://scsi.ie/consumer/build/house-rebuild-calculator/

That's based on already owning the land, no design/planning costs, etc. Posting completely unfounded nonsense distracts from the realities.

Would you know why the default 145 sq m detached house costs over 300k to build in Dublin but 193k in the North West?

Idbatterim

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/german-investor-to-acquire-greystones-apartments-for-60m-1.4462425

next up, luxury waterfront apartments in greystones going for social housing... I dont think it says here council buying them for social, in this article I mean, but I believe it has subsequently been confirmed!

Many of you hardworking taxpayers living in new luxury apartments in greystones lads?

baldbear

Would we be better off if Facebook & Google pulled out of Dublin? Maybe ordinary Dubs would be able to afford places.

Idbatterim

baldbear wrote: »

Would we be better off if Facebook & Google pulled out of Dublin? Maybe ordinary Dubs would be able to afford places.

no definitely not, they are not the issue. the decision to have rip off housing, no high rise or higher density, is all government decisions...

Idbatterim

How it started with FG and where we are now... The whole political spectrum here is rotten to the core. Not just here, everywhere, but we Irish accept far more crap than anywhere else would...



The housing wealth evaporation, just sucking up vast amounts of cash, from the peasants, to the elite, for the most basic of human needs, is disgusting!

more comedy below! I agree with the PUP, you get more out based on what you paid in, a start to implementing a proper system. Here varadkar is, banging on about the overly generous welfare in general here though. Paid for by who? yes, those idiots like myself, who believed his lies... Ripped off on housing, while he given people who dont vote or despise FG free luxury homes ... Absolutely incredible...

yabadabado

baldbear wrote: »

Would we be better off if Facebook & Google pulled out of Dublin? Maybe ordinary Dubs would be able to afford places.

Definitely not.

pjohnson

Idbatterim wrote: »

How it started with FG and where we are now... The whole political spectrum here is rotten to the core. Not just here, everywhere, but we Irish accept far more crap than anywhere else would...



The housing wealth evaporation, just sucking up vast amounts of cash, from the peasants, to the elite, for the most basic of human needs, is disgusting!

Considering you have said you are looking forward to people suffering economic fallout from covid + you voted FG your faux outrage at FG is quite hollow.

Pete_Cavan

Donald Trump wrote: »

Would you know why the default 145 sq m detached house costs over 300k to build in Dublin but 193k in the North West?

Well the first and most obvious part of the answer is that everything costs more in Dublin than in the North West. I'd say they also have very little data on new build detached houses in Dublin as they would be rare now. The few that they have data from are probably very high end houses. The houses in the North West are probably mostly one offs where the owner was able to do some work themselves or get work done on mates rates.

I'd speculate that there could also be an element of extrapolating the cost from other house types but not taking account of economy of scale. So the 145sq.m house might be based on a per sq.m rate for a smaller house but in reality, the bigger house should have a lower rate.

Donald Trump

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Well the first and most obvious part of the answer is that everything costs more in Dublin than in the North West. I'd say they also have very little data on new build detached houses in Dublin as they would be rare now. The few that they have data from are probably very high end houses. The houses in the North West are probably mostly one offs where the owner was able to do some work themselves or get work done on mates rates.

I'd speculate that there could also be an element of extrapolating the cost from other house types but not taking account of economy of scale. So the 145sq.m house might be based on a per sq.m rate for a smaller house but in reality, the bigger house should have a lower rate.

Same thing with the default 95sq m terraced house. under 129k in North West and 70k more in Dublin. Dublin should definitely have economies of scale there.



The materials should be costing more or less the same. If there was somehow a massive difference in price between materials in the North West and in Dublin then a builder could simply load up materials there and transport them to Dublin.



I think that there is more going into that SCSI calculator than materials and labour!

colm_mcm

I can’t see how you couldn’t build simple terraced housing on council owned land for buttons. Regardless of BER and all that. Economies of scale and simplified design should make it possible.

James Brown

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Already plenty of houses outside of Dublin. Fact is the homeless people won't move to them. You will find loads of cases when houses are offered but because they are not in XYZ area they are rejected.
People know if they hold out for long enough they will get a house for life, rent free in the exact area they want. While everyone else is crying about "da poor homeless".
The biggest change that should be made is taking rent from source, millions of rent is not collected every year because the social housing tenants refuse to pay it.

Stats for that fact?

You seem very ignorant of how the housing system works yet speak in absolutes here.
You sign up to the housing list. It's a points system. You get to list three areas within your council area to apply for. As far as I know you only get one or two chances to decline then you lose your spot on the list.
I agree with the rent from source comment.

James Brown

suicide_circus wrote: »

Public policy is ideologically wedded to having a representation of social housing in all developments even if it's a colossal waste of money

If it wasn't they wouldn't be doing it. Waste of public money equates to private profit.

biko wrote: »

I'm so happy to pay tax for someone else to live in a house I could only dream of living in.

Putting people on low/no incomes into D4 type luxury apartments is a symptom of FF/FG housing policy.

FF/FG aren't ejits. Housing policy works perfectly fine for them.

Pete_Cavan

Donald Trump wrote: »

Same thing with the default 95sq m terraced house. under 129k in North West and 70k more in Dublin. Dublin should definitely have economies of scale there.



The materials should be costing more or less the same. If there was somehow a massive difference in price between materials in the North West and in Dublin then a builder could simply load up materials there and transport them to Dublin.



I think that there is more going into that SCSI calculator than materials and labour!

Materials like blocks and concrete will be cheaper in the North West as there are more quarries and less demand for their products but you can't transport them to Dublin easily due to size/weight and the concrete wouldn't be usable away. Unless you have access to a large truck and driver at little or no cost, you are better off having them brought to you and paying the Dublin rates.

Labour is the big cost difference between Dublin and the North West. Dublin rates are naturally higher and there is also more demand, getting any sort of tradesman in Dublin is difficult. Labour can and does travel from other parts of the country to Dublin but there are additional costs with that too, transport, possibly parking and overnight accommodation, etc.

The SCSI calculator figures also allow for demolition costs which would be more in Dublin, particularly carting away and disposal of demolition material.

Idbatterim

pjohnson wrote: »

Considering you have said you are looking forward to people suffering economic fallout from covid + you voted FG your faux outrage at FG is quite hollow.

if the masses didnt support this delusional bull****, we most likely wouldnt be running head on into financial ruin again...

Donald Trump

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Materials like blocks and concrete will be cheaper in the North West as there are more quarries and less demand for their products but you can't transport them to Dublin easily due to size/weight and the concrete wouldn't be usable away. Unless you have access to a large truck and driver at little or no cost, you are better off having them brought to you and paying the Dublin rates.

Labour is the big cost difference between Dublin and the North West. Dublin rates are naturally higher and there is also more demand, getting any sort of tradesman in Dublin is difficult. Labour can and does travel from other parts of the country to Dublin but there are additional costs with that too, transport, possibly parking and overnight accommodation, etc.

The SCSI calculator figures also allow for demolition costs which would be more in Dublin, particularly carting away and disposal of demolition material.

Any differential in concrete costs is not going to make a big dent in that 70k terrace house price difference.



Demolition costs maybe, but they shouldn't be included in a house building cost. In a house rebuilding cost - yes - for insurance reasons etc. of course.



I see these reports from those construction linked bodies every year and the thing that I always notice that they always have every little thing built into the construction cost of a house - including their own finance costs for the site etc. and also their own margin. No other business can get away with that. The build cost should be the cost it takes to build the house. Their margin is on top of that.



I wouldn't develop an estate of 10 houses by paying subcontractors 2m to do it for me from start to finish and then say that the build cost is 2.5m before I make any profit because I needed to include my own required margin of 25%

Pete_Cavan

Donald Trump wrote: »

Any differential in concrete costs is not going to make a big dent in that 70k terrace house price difference.



Demolition costs maybe, but they shouldn't be included in a house building cost. In a house rebuilding cost - yes - for insurance reasons etc. of course.



I see these reports from those construction linked bodies every year and the thing that I always notice that they always have every little thing built into the construction cost of a house - including their own finance costs for the site etc. and also their own margin. No other business can get away with that. The build cost should be the cost it takes to build the house. Their margin is on top of that.



I wouldn't develop an estate of 10 houses by paying subcontractors 2m to do it for me from start to finish and then say that the build cost is 2.5m before I make any profit because I needed to include my own required margin of 25%

The SCSI has more detailed analysis and shows margin at 11%;

https://scsi.ie/business/build/real-cost-to-deliver-analysis/

Wanderer78

AmberGold wrote:

1. WTF is the Government doing spending €960K of our money on a 88 sq meter apartment for social housing.

....because we elect governments to try redistribute the money supply

Pete_Cavan

The Government isn't spending €960K on a 88 sq meter apartment. That was offered by the developer but DCC will likely reject the most expensive units taking cheaper ones instead, and negotiate down the price of each unit.

Varik

While the government (Dáil) could do a lot about this, it's the councils that are responsible.

Bsharp

Any builder or developer looking to get finance from
a bank/financial institution need to demonstrate a level of margin to cover financial risk.

The financers are concerned that the development won't get built, and sold, for them to be paid back. If there are issues during construction the extra cost is covered by the margin without putting the business under immediate financial pressure.

Ideally we would have a more sustainable financing mechanism for home building It could lessen the cost of financing and help reduce the margin.

A major reason why developers are going BTR is they're easier to finance with institutional investors with less redtape, the problem for society is they want to see long-term return through rent; less available to buy. They can also lessen building standards and reduce parking requirements making the build cheaper.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Any differential in concrete costs is not going to make a big dent in that 70k terrace house price difference.



Demolition costs maybe, but they shouldn't be included in a house building cost. In a house rebuilding cost - yes - for insurance reasons etc. of course.



I see these reports from those construction linked bodies every year and the thing that I always notice that they always have every little thing built into the construction cost of a house - including their own finance costs for the site etc. and also their own margin. No other business can get away with that. The build cost should be the cost it takes to build the house. Their margin is on top of that.



I wouldn't develop an estate of 10 houses by paying subcontractors 2m to do it for me from start to finish and then say that the build cost is 2.5m before I make any profit because I needed to include my own required margin of 25%