Varadkar suggests prior income related welfare

Idbatterim

They are politucally done without a measure like this, at the very least. delighted. No chance core welfare gets cut to fund it, but the extra resources now focused on those who should be getting it, means therw wont be more increases on over the top rates for the wasters...

jester77

That's how to works here in Germany, you get roughly 66% of your previous income for 12 months. After that you have to use up savings, sell assets and downsize your house if it is deemed too big before you get any further assistance. Good system as 12 months is more than enough to get some sort of a job.

Pensions is also based on what you contributed throughout your whole working career and not a fixed amount that is given to everyone.

It's about time common sense kicked in around welfare.

Cannot believe the idea is only being tabled now.

doublejobbing 2

Do this, and cut the dole to bits of any relatively young person who is on it too long. I know a lad of 32 and I doubt he has worked two full years since the last crash. Smoking joints, campaigning for SF and other radical left movements and ranting and raving about communism on Facebook is quite literally all he does with his life. He should be cut from the 205 per week and given weekly food vouchers and quarterly clothing vouchers, see how quick he gets himself a job once he can't afford to buy weed.

He is the primary reason I think left wing politics has become a dangerous cult to young people who are too enveloped in it.

Another much needed money saver- do an audit of all foreign born people who live in any form of state supported housing. If they have an any way patchy employment history, deport, whether they and their children are citizens or not. The events in Blanch at new years really were a wake up call. We are too heavily in debt and too mired in an affordable housing crisis to be supporting these workshy ingrates.. The fact an unemployed gyosy from Romania can live in a semi detatched 3 or 4 bed house worth 350K for 30 quid a week while people from the area are forced out by high rent/ purchase costs is a national disgrace.

maccored

i dont understand how long term unemployed get the same money every year. not trying to slag off anyone on the dole, but I know a few people who have been unemployed for 30 years and they are medically fit - and arent shinners (FG supporters in fact, very much anti SF). Thats madness to not get money cut if you cant be arsed looking for work.

Red card is a a bit OTT for that post to be honest.

And the site wonders why they are losing posters.

Over moderation.

Jane98

Personally, I think the whole social welfare system needa to be overhauled, including:
1. Limiting the amount of social welfare any household can receive
2. Not paying 18 year olds social welfare unemployment benefits unless they sign up to further training
3. Making those on unemployment benefit do a certain number of hours volunteering in their community before they receive full benefits. Good for the community and good for the person.

DraftDodger

This site has become one big welfare and social housing bashing yawnfest.

Kivaro

DraftDodger wrote: »

This site has become one big welfare and social housing bashing yawnfest.

Says the DraftDodger ........

ThunbergsAreGo

Jane98 wrote: »

Personally, I think the whole social welfare system needa to be overhauled, including:
1. Limiting the amount of social welfare any household can receive
2. Not paying 18 year olds social welfare unemployment benefits unless they sign up to further training
3. Making those on unemployment benefit do a certain number of hours volunteering in their community before they receive full benefits. Good for the community and good for the person.

Agree, along the allocation of social housing.

Make work pay, not make workers pay

Tony EH

Getting a job should be easier to achieve in this country and I'd rather see Social Welfare departments pursue greater efforts in helping people get back into the workplace when they've lost their job, or had their job taken from them to put it more correctly. People who, more often than not, have been made unemployed through no fault of their own. The thing is, getting a job in Ireland is not an easy task and we routinely go through periods of joblessness as a country. So until that issue is tackled in a serious way, discussions about payments won't really mean anything.

Does Unemployment Benefit need to be looked at? Yes, indeed. Cos at the moment, 9 months UB is a joke. Down from 12, BTW, thanks to Fine Gael. However, there is a danger that increasing Benefit in terms of money paid out may only encourage people to stay out of work longer. 66% (like Germany) of a previously decent wage would mean living perfectly fine for a lot of people. Unlike Germany, though, our welfare depts. are just about harassing people and making them feel like shit. Whereas over there they engage and actually help people to find new jobs. A mate of mine moved there over 10 years ago, because he was out of work here and said the difference is night and day. Here, he was hounded unreasonably. There he was helped and got a decent job because of that help.

wexfordman2

McMurphy wrote: »

I'm actually with Leo on this one.

We should absolutely introduce a system that ensures, god forbid through no fault of your own, you find yourself out of work, that there's a safety net in place based on the more you put in, the more you get out.

Someone who has worked for 25 years paying hundreds of thousands of euro of tax and prsi should not be getting the same welfare benefits as Decko, who is 42 and has been on the scratcher since leaving school.

There, I agree with something Leo Varadkar suggested. Is it too early for a stiff spirit? :pac:

I was made redundant a few years back, after 20 years of service. I got 6months of dole @298 a week
for my trouble, a was paying close to 30k in tax a year when I got made redundant, really quite stomach churning to be given 6minths with of dole after than

joseywhales

Queue, everyone getting the sack one year before retirement. I definitely would.

Dempo1

Whilst it sounds on the surface a good idea, Leo has been anti social welfare for years and therefore its very hard to believe or trust anything he proposes when it comes to SW matters. Both he and Heather Humphries were gun ho to stop PUP earlier and got their way with reductions for at least 30% of recepients, indeed its infuriating hearing constant references to the €350 per week when the truth is the opposite for many on this scheme. Its also worth pointing out the scandalous Jobs Path has been extended into this year, 100"s of millions given to 2 private recruitment agency to bully and harass people on SW with less than 12% success rate in long term job creation. (Leo's little baby)

I'm all for SW reform that is equitable but really find it hard to believe a word that comes out of Leaky Leo's mouth. This latest leak is just a toe dipping exercise to see what the lay of the land is regarding ending PUP on the 31st March. There's little chance of it ending in March. There's more of a chance of Leo and Pearse Doherty becoming best buddies.

KyussB

Correct headline: Pandemic Unemployment Payment to soon be withdrawn, and people put on unemployment payments instead (which have been reformed a bit to soften the blow).

JeffKenna

I presume this is all just a sound bite from Leo, hopefully I'm wrong but that's really all he's good for.

James Brown

Yes I'm with me aul' segotia Leo on this.
I don't see why anyone would have an issue.

Why do I feel there's a catch?

lawred2

He'll be accused of discrimination

A nice hike in taxes on the way.

Geuze

Northernlily wrote: »

It's about time common sense kicked in around welfare.

Cannot believe the idea is only being tabled now.

Varadker has mentioned this many times before.

He has done something about it, but not much in my opinion.

JSB has been extended to the self-employed, I think.

I think Treatment Benefit was improved (probably just restored?).

Parental leave has been extended.

Parent's Leave introduced



I am a strong supporter of social insurance, and making SI more generous than social assistance.


My suggestions:

(1) Xmas bonus only for SI recipients - (can you believe long-term JSA people get it, short-term JSB people don't = madness)


(2) Bring JSB / IB / maternity/paternity up to the amount of the State Pension 248 pw

(3) Leave JSA rates alone, move over-time to abolish JSA and replace with Job Guarantee scheme

(4) change the gap between the contributory and non-con pensions. Getting 11 euro extra pw after 40 years work is insane, 248 vs 237 pw.
How to do this? Maybe tighten the means-test for the non-con, or freeze the non-con rate for several years, and only increase the contributory.

(5) everybody should pay some PRSI, that gives people a stake in the system, so start PRSI at 100 pw wages, instead of the current exemption to 352pw.

Geuze

Antares35 wrote: »

And will we all just end up paying more PRSI? That was my initial reaction.

Our PRSI rate at 4% is very low.

At least PRSI is ringfenced, it goes into the SIF, and is only used to pay for SI benefits.

I don't want to pay more tax to finance social assistance: JSA, OPFP, etc.

I don't mind paying more PRSI, as I know it goes to other workers.

A workers pension should be bigger than a non-workers pension.

smurgen

Anything Varadkar says not newsworthy unfortunately.

Stovepipe

suicide_circus wrote: »

It's an absolute no brainer.

The fact that someone who loses their job after working 10/20/30 years receives the same dole as someone who has never worked is morally reprehensible. It's a slap in the face. Any of the Scandi/Germanic social utopias provide dole rates based on contributions...then again these counties also charge for water by usage which is anathema to those in Ireland who like to trot out these counties' systems as something to emulate.

We already pay for water via our motor tax,a tax which is considerably higher than the motor taxes paid in Sweden or Germany. Would you really want to pay water rates twice?

Idbatterim

Stovepipe wrote: »

We already pay for water via our motor tax,a tax which is considerably higher than the motor taxes paid in Sweden or Germany. Would you really want to pay water rates twice?

Most people now pay as good as free motor tax... the other motoring related taxes like vat and vrt are high...

AlmightyCushion

suicide_circus wrote: »

It's an absolute no brainer.

The fact that someone who loses their job after working 10/20/30 years receives the same dole as someone who has never worked is morally reprehensible. It's a slap in the face. Any of the Scandi/Germanic social utopias provide dole rates based on contributions...then again these counties also charge for water by usage which is anathema to those in Ireland who like to trot out these counties' systems as something to emulate.

The worst part is the person who is long term unemployed gets more than the person who is recently unemployed. If you're recently unemployed you don't get the Christmas bonus or fuel allowance. You need to be on social welfare for over 100 days for the Christmas bonus and over a year for fuel allowance.

Louis Friend

They have a system like this in Switzerland.

But they take it further, and so could we.

Things like speeding fines are linked to your income. So someone on a large salary pays a hell of a lot more than someone on the average industrial wage.

Antares35

Geuze wrote: »

Our PRSI rate at 4% is very low.

At least PRSI is ringfenced, it goes into the SIF, and is only used to pay for SI benefits.

I don't want to pay more tax to finance social assistance: JSA, OPFP, etc.

I don't mind paying more PRSI, as I know it goes to other workers.

A workers pension should be bigger than a non-workers pension.

I'm not arguing that a worker should have the same pension as a non worker, quite the opposite.

Our PRSI might be low but we've also got a very low entry point to the higher rate of tax and the USC which is apparently here forever so total deductions at the end of the day are still quite high. And, they're hardly going to increase PRSI and decrease tax.

Donald Trump

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Am I reading this wrong?

People who haven't contributed as much, would not get as much social supports as those who have?

How can this be anything other than fair?

Do it Leo.

As long as you aren't sacrificing the genuine cases just to stick it to the wasters. A bit difficult to do that though!





What about extending the idea? If you draw down your bigger dole due to a 6 month break (at "no fault of your own"), then you get a lower pension than the person who was never on the dole?

Mad_maxx

Dempo1 wrote: »

Whilst it sounds on the surface a good idea, Leo has been anti social welfare for years and therefore its very hard to believe or trust anything he proposes when it comes to SW matters. Both he and Heather Humphries were gun ho to stop PUP earlier and got their way with reductions for at least 30% of recepients, indeed its infuriating hearing constant references to the €350 per week when the truth is the opposite for many on this scheme. Its also worth pointing out the scandalous Jobs Path has been extended into this year, 100"s of millions given to 2 private recruitment agency to bully and harass people on SW with less than 12% success rate in long term job creation. (Leo's little baby)

I'm all for SW reform that is equitable but really find it hard to believe a word that comes out of Leaky Leo's mouth. This latest leak is just a toe dipping exercise to see what the lay of the land is regarding ending PUP on the 31st March. There's little chance of it ending in March. There's more of a chance of Leo and Pearse Doherty becoming best buddies.

Leo might talk " anti social welfare " but thats all it is , talk

he walks more public spending and big government , all parties do

this narrative that Leo is some kind of thatcherite public spending slashing right winger is the biggest fairytale in the land

Dempo1

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Leo might talk " anti social welfare " but thats all it is , talk

he walks more public spending and big government , all parties do

this narrative that Leo is some kind of thatcherite public spending slashing right winger is the biggest fairytale in the land

It's no narrative at all he has been by far more vocal about cutting SW entitlements (he calls it reform) than any other politician in recent history. Ironically some of this decisions to date have actually cost the state more and in numerous hundreds of Millions, Jobs Path just one example. He championed anti fraud measures yielding a pittance of what he suggested was going on.

Meanwhile another Limp good news story released today, seems they've finally agreed to allow those caught having to retire at 65, recieve a basic SW payment for a year without them having to go through hoops until they are entitled to their pension. God bless them, they are so considerate. I've a neighbour, 64 years of age, being absolutely bullied an harrased by Jobs Path, he's currently doing an online course from his house (with crap broadband) & can barely send a WhatsApp message let alone send an email , learning how to create Resumes and apply for Jobs. He worked in construction for 40 years. Just beyond comprehension how any government could Justify this nonsense.