PTO seized on vaccum pump

TheClubMan

So I arrived home this evening and the father told me the PTO had seized on the vaccum pump of the slurry tanker. It's an Abbey 1300. The pump won't turn over and the tractor just stalls when the PTO is engaged he says. Could it be an issue with the gearbox? No oil maybe? Has this happened to anyone else before? I'll know more when I look at it myself in the morning.

kevthegaff

TheClubMan wrote: »

So I arrived home this evening and the father told me the PTO had seized on the vaccum pump of the slurry tanker. It's an Abbey 1300. The pump won't turn over and the tractor just stalls when the PTO is engaged he says. Could it be an issue with the gearbox? No oil maybe? Has this happened to anyone else before? I'll know more when I look at it myself in the morning.

Prob a vein caught, open gears and have a quick look, otherwise it's the veins. I swing the pump around and open from the back, do alot in an hour

funkey_monkey

"Poor performance is usually down to wear. But if the tanker’s internal anti-overfill ball valve gives up, slurry can be drawn into the pump to seize or break rotor vanes."

https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/farm-maintenance/restoring-vacuum-tanker-suck-n-blow


Also, I've read that its not good for the pumps to switch directly from fill to spread or vice versa without stopping in the centre position to release the pressure.

TheClubMan

funkey_monkey wrote: »

"Poor performance is usually down to wear. But if the tanker’s internal anti-overfill ball valve gives up, slurry can be drawn into the pump to seize or break rotor vanes."

Also, I've read that its not good for the pumps to switch directly from fill to spread or vice versa without stopping in the centre position to release the pressure.

The gas is always released after filling so that shouldn't be an issue. I will check the condition of the anti-overfill ball valve after I have a look at the pump tomorrow.

TheClubMan

kevthegaff wrote: »

Prob a vein caught, open gears and have a quick look, otherwise it's the veins. I swing the pump around and open from the back, do alot in an hour

Can veins be easily replaced if they're broken?

funkey_monkey

TheClubMan wrote: »

Can veins be easily replaced if they're broken?

Steps 1 - 3 in that link I sent shows the general process. Straight forward enough.

Nekarsulm

TheClubMan wrote: »

So I arrived home this evening and the father told me the PTO had seized on the vaccum pump of the slurry tanker. It's an Abbey 1300. The pump won't turn over and the tractor just stalls when the PTO is engaged he says. Could it be an issue with the gearbox? No oil maybe? Has this happened to anyone else before? I'll know more when I look at it myself in the morning.

If you are lucky, its just broken vane, probably well worn down and there was more of it out of the slot than in it, or lack of lubrication jammed it and it broke.
If you are unlucky, and you had a 100 horsepower behind it when it jammed solid, you could have fractionally bent the shaft on the rotor.
There is a guy down in Tipp ( I think) called Elliot Benn who advertises that he fixes them, but otherwise it's time for a new or second hand pump.
You won't know till you fit new vanes and try spinning it.

westlander

Nekarsulm wrote: »

If you are lucky, its just broken vane, probably well worn down and there was more of it out of the slot than in it, or lack of lubrication jammed it and it broke.
If you are unlucky, and you had a 100 horsepower behind it when it jammed solid, you could have fractionally bent the shaft on the rotor.
There is a guy down in Tipp ( I think) called Elliot Benn who advertises that he fixes them, but otherwise it's time for a new or second hand pump.
You won't know till you fit new vanes and try spinning it.

There’s a man down beside major in Mayo who services pumps and reconditions them Martin Sean lane I think is his name. He advertises on dondeal too

kevthegaff

TheClubMan wrote: »

Can veins be easily replaced if they're broken?

Ya very simple if from the back, nightmare from the front

TheClubMan

Nekarsulm wrote: »

If you are lucky, its just broken vane, probably well worn down and there was more of it out of the slot than in it, or lack of lubrication jammed it and it broke.
If you are unlucky, and you had a 100 horsepower behind it when it jammed solid, you could have fractionally bent the shaft on the rotor.
There is a guy down in Tipp ( I think) called Elliot Benn who advertises that he fixes them, but otherwise it's time for a new or second hand pump.
You won't know till you fit new vanes and try spinning it.

There's a 100hp Massey on the front so hopefully it's just a broken vane... I'll know more tomorrow. Thanks for the info.

_Brian

Vacuum pumps are quite simple rugged technology. Hopefully broken or dislodged vein.

TheClubMan

I've tried to open the rear of the pump. The plate is unbolted but it only moves from left to right and won't prize out. Access to the vanes is possibly from the front of the pump?

Nekarsulm

TheClubMan wrote: »

I've tried to open the rear of the pump. The plate is unbolted but it only moves from left to right and won't prize out. The vanes are possibly located at the front of the pump?

Drive two screwdrivers in between the end plate and the pump body, and then place a socket against the pump rotor shaft ( in the middle of the bearing) and give it a good clout from a lump hammer.

blue5000

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Drive two screwdrivers in between the end plate and the pump body, and then place a socket against the pump rotor shaft ( in the middle of the bearing) and give it a good clout from a lump hammer.

Careful with the lump hammer, if you miss it will break as it's cast iron. Actually it looks like you have a lump gone already. Putting it back together you need a light rope under the rotor to lift it into position. It's a lot easier with a second person to help.

TheClubMan

TheClubMan wrote: »

I've tried to open the rear of the pump. The plate is unbolted but it only moves from left to right and won't prize out. Access to the vanes is possibly from the front of the pump?

Theres 2 small holes on it,possibly M8,thread bolts into these and pull off cover evenly


These look to be at circa 10 oclock and 4 oclock on your pic


Edit: it looks like your oil pump shaft is broken off in the pic??

funkey_monkey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnOvzaA9Pnc

See at 2:10 into this. I think this is what Blaaz is talking about.


BTW: when you get it going again, put the pump on spread and hold about 1/2 -1 litre of diesel up to the exhaust which will suck it in and lube the pump. It is in the owners manual that this should be done.

ruwithme

funkey_monkey wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnOvzaA9Pnc

See at 2:10 into this. I think this is what Blaaz is talking about.


BTW: when you get it going again, put the pump on spread and hold about 1/2 -1 litre of diesel up to the exhaust which will suck it in and lube the pump. It is in the owners manual that this should be done.

Just on the diesel lubing the pump,am i right in saying that as soon as the diesel is sucked up the exhaust you should bring the fill/spread lever back to neutral to get the full benefits of the diesel lube for the pump??

My mechanic told me that if i heard him right??

funkey_monkey

ruwithme wrote: »

Just on the diesel lubing the pump,am i right in saying that as soon as the diesel is sucked up the exhaust you should bring the fill/spread lever back to neutral to get the full benefits of the diesel lube for the pump??

My mechanic told me that if i heard him right??

My error - you are actually washing out the pump internals - not lubricating.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1639047/Abbey-Machinery-Slurry-Tanker.html?page=40#manual

Had to check manual there - it doesn't say anything about reverting to the neutral position. In my mind as you are cleaning any slurry out of the pump internals you'd want to push it on through - so keep it on spread.
The pump gearing etc have their own oil bath for lubrication. Diesel will provide a level of lubrication (probably help against corrosion inside) - we'd normally do it a couple of times just for thoroughness.


https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1639047/Abbey-Machinery-Slurry-Tanker.html?page=68#manual

TheClubMan - What oil have you been using - milking machine oil is not permitted as it can swell the vanes and cause the pump to seize.

Edit: Here are the correct oils to use:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1639047/Abbey-Machinery-Slurry-Tanker.html?page=38#manual

TheClubMan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Theres 2 small holes on it,possibly M8,thread bolts into these and pull off cover evenly


These look to be at circa 10 oclock and 4 oclock on your pic


Edit: it looks like your oil pump shaft is broken off in the pic??

Thanks for your advice folks. I'll try using the M8 bolts to get off the plate tomorrow and go from there. No the oil pump shaft isn't broken, I took it off to have a look inside.

maidhc

TheClubMan wrote: »

Thanks for your advice. I'll try using the M8 bolts to get off the plate tomorrow. No the oil pump shaft isn't broken, I took it off to have a look inside.

Happened me before. Replaced the vanes off we went. You will also need a paper gasket(or two). Without it it is possible the rotor will bind against the plate at the back and you will be worse off than ever.

satstheway

TheClubMan wrote: »

Thanks for your advice folks. I'll try using the M8 bolts to get off the plate tomorrow and go from there. No the oil pump shaft isn't broken, I took it off to have a look inside.

Your broken vane could be stuck in exhaust port.
If it is hard to get off I'd open from front. It's a heavy thing mind.

The Nutty M

Watch that you don't lose the keyway that hooks the shaft up to the oil pump. And make sure to line it up when putting it back.

The casing will split with a bit of persuasion and you'll be looking into where the rotor is with the vanes. Hopefully that's where your problem lies although I've never seen a vane to get caught in such a way that it completely locks the pump. And the fact a 100hp tractor got stalled on it makes me wonder. Usually it would just smash the vane and make a hell of a racket.

blue5000

Any progress CM? It's a good while since I changed vanes in mine. I can't remember if there are two dowels to hold the plate on to the housing. I think there is also a groove to start off with a chisel or flat screwdriver too.

Old thread here somewhere too, I'll try post a link if I find it.

TheClubMan

We got the slurry out with a neighbors tanker so this job got put on the long finger with calving and everything else going on. Opened up the rear of the pump today. The vanes don't seem worn/broke but they were filthy and weren't moving freely in the pump. I don't think the pump actually seized while on the tractor and the gears seem ok too. Maybe oil and slurry got built up inside the pump and it just needs a good clean? Can the vanes be cleaned or would it be best to replace them?

funkey_monkey

Are you able to crank the pump over manually? I think they are around €50-70 hour a set of vanes, if you have gone this far then mauve replaced them if your budget allows.
Otherwise, just give it all a good clean out, rebuild and make sure you can crank it manually.

Are you sucking a load of diesel up the exhaust after work like I mentioned previously? That should help avoid the problem again.

TheClubMan

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Are you able to crank the pump over manually? I think they are around €50-70 hour a set of vanes, if you have gone this far then mauve replaced them if your budget allows.
Otherwise, just give it all a good clean out, rebuild and make sure you can crank it manually.

Are you sucking a load of diesel up the exhaust after work like I mentioned previously? That should help avoid the problem again.

Yes I managed to turn it over with my hand today so hopefully a good clean and a new set of vanes will fix the issue. No but I shall try doing that when/if I get going again. Thanks

funkey_monkey

Make sure the oil dropper is set at 1 drop per second. I think if the oil isn't right the vanes can swell and lock up the pump.
I think my link on previous page lists the oils to use.

Good luck with the repairs!

White Clover

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Make sure the oil dropper is set at 1 drop per min. I think if the oil isn't right the vanes can swell and lock up the pump.
I think my link on previous page lists the oils to use.

Good luck with the repairs!

I presume you mean 1 drop per second?
The manual that I have for my major tank recommends 1 drop every 2 seconds.

Grueller

White Clover wrote: »

I presume you mean 1 drop per second?
The manual that I have for my major tank recommends 1 drop every 2 seconds.

And the manual for my Hertell pump recommends 10 drops per minute or one every six seconds.

funkey_monkey

White Clover wrote: »

I presume you mean 1 drop per second?
The manual that I have for my major tank recommends 1 drop every 2 seconds.

Yes! Apologies - fixed it now.

The link I have put up shows the drop rates for Abbey pumps. Around 50p/s. But it is easier to set for 1 per second or 60 per minute.