Wimbledon linked with Chelsea women's manager

Blanco100

Listening to a debate on Sky Sports news about how it's an insult for the Chelsea womens manager to be linked with the men's job at AFC Wimbledon.

The debate is descending into farce, male and female contributors with the male journalist pretty much being baited into saying it would be a step up. He didn't bite however which seemed to annoy the former women's England international on the panel who claimed it was the most insulting link she'd every heard. Why leave Chelsea for Wimbledon she mused.

She also reckoned Phil Neville joining Inter Miami was a massive step down from bossing England's womens national team.

The host asked the journo why there are no women managing in the men's game, again trying to get him to explain it. He put it back on her, and asked why she thought this was the case, after a few seconds of spluttering and pausing she opined that maybe women were not confident of applying for the big jobs.

In case anyone didn't hear, there was a furore during the week when Emma Hayes called her links to league 1 AFC Wimbledon men's team an insult, claiming they couldn't afford her despite it being widely reported they would actually have been capable of topping her current salary.

The male journalist was at odds to point out AFC Wimbledon were not to be criticised as they clearly rate her highly to which point the female international interjected to ask if Mourinho or Pep would ever be linked to Wimbledon.

Seems a no brainer to me. League 1 football would be a deeper talent pool, more competitive, bigger attendances, generate more money etc... This PC World now dictates that everyone must insist she is correct in her assumptions, and it's an unwritten rule that anyone who claims otherwise is an absolute enemy of the women's game.

A woman managing a men's team in league football (let alone league 1) would be monumental for women. She would be on an even playing field, and not propped up by government funding/ grants that are currently being pumped into womens sport to give the false impression it's standing on its own 2 feet.

The question is, is passing up such an opportunity cutting her nose off to spite her face?

El Gato De Negocios

It would be monumental but honestly, who would want to put themselves in such a position?. Managers are the regular whipping boy, can you imagine the torrent of abuse that a female manager would be subjected to from the get go? No amount of money or job would be worth the aggravation. Until there is a massive attitudinal change I can't see it ever happening which is really really sad tbh.

Pauliedragon

I hope for her sake she doesn't have any social media accounts.

CSF

Honestly, the fact that you think her making a choice on what job she prefers (and some other people having the same opinion) has anything to do with Political correctness says it all about the real motivations for making this thread.

Not a hope this is a thread intended to compare the respective levels of the WSL and League 1.

Blanco100

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

It would be monumental but honestly, who would want to put themselves in such a position?. Managers are the regular whipping boy, can you imagine the torrent of abuse that a female manager would be subjected to from the get go? No amount of money or job would be worth the aggravation. Until there is a massive attitudinal change I can't see it ever happening which is really really sad tbh.

But male managers are subject to savage abuse also. That's the nature of the game. Happens everywhere in the world.

If that's her reasoning great but as you can see from post above, it's not. Rather it's an insult to be asked to manage at that level.

Her record at Chelsea women means this would be beneath us. Does she expect a premier League job?

is_that_so

They clearly think she has the chops but it's the same question asked of any manager "are they good enough?". I don't think it's a media thing as managers are able to ignore the media at the best of times but it would probably end up being this gender nonsense.

Blanco100

CSF wrote: »

Honestly, the fact that you think her making a choice on what job she prefers (and some other people having the same opinion) has anything to do with Political correctness says it all about the real motivations for making this thread.

Not a hope this is a thread intended to compare the respective levels of the WSL and League 1.

Thats specifically what I'm asking. Not enough to throw that out there to hide behind rather than having a debate.

She has ruled it out as beneath her. If she expressly said she's not interested in managing in the men's game then absolutely fair enough, it's completely a respectable decision.

But she was insulted and implied the club were beneath her ambitions. Its a fair debate, WSL or league 1 as a better means of testing your managerial chops.

CSF

Blanco100 wrote: »

Thats specifically what I'm asking. Not enough to throw that out there to hide behind rather than having a debate.

She has ruled it out as beneath her. If she expressly said she's not interested in managing in the men's game then absolutely fair enough, it's completely a respectable decision.

But she was insulted and implied the club were beneath her ambitions. Its a fair debate, WSL or league 1 as a better means of testing your managerial chops.

So why all the political correctness boll*x?

Zaph

She has a choice. Stay at the team that are currently top of the Women's Super League, have a League Cup final coming up next month and are in the last 16 of the Champions League, or move to a team one point above the relegation places to League Two. I don't know why this is even a debate.

fyfe79

Zaph wrote: »

She has a choice. Stay at the team that are currently top of the Women's Super League, have a League Cup final coming up next month and are in the last 16 of the Champions League, or move to a team one point above the relegation places to League Two. I don't know why this is even a debate.

Well it seems the Wimbledon job would be higher paid, for a start. I'd certainly consider changing jobs for better money.

If she does a good job there, she could work herself up the ladder in men's football - bigger and better jobs - and become a real trailblazer for women in football. Being realistic, since Wimbledon are the biggest men's club to offer a woman the manager's job to date, how far-off are Championship or PL clubs from offering the same? She'll be retired by that time, most likely. If she would like to prove herself in men's football, this is probably her best opportunity.

Deeper Blue

I don't think it's sexist to claim that the Wimbledon men's job is far bigger than the Chelsea women's job. It seems the media are terrified of doing so.

Zaph

fyfe79 wrote: »

Well it seems the Wimbledon job would be higher paid, for a start. I'd certainly consider changing jobs for better money.

If she does a good job there, she could work herself up the ladder in men's football - bigger and better jobs - and become a real trailblazer for women in football. Being realistic, since Wimbledon are the biggest men's club to offer a woman the manager's job to date, how far-off are Championship or PL clubs from offering the same? She'll be retired by that time, most likely. If she would like to prove herself in men's football, this is probably her best opportunity.

If it was a mid-table League One, or even League Two team, then I'd say you'd be right, there'd be an opportunity for her to make a name for herself and potentially move up to bigger jobs. But taking on a team in relegation trouble means anyone who takes over, male or female, is possibly on a hiding to nothing. But given the abuse we've seen aimed at players over the last couple of weeks, a woman who "failed" to save their team from relegation would have every troglodyte with a keyboard hurling abuse at her. I think if she wants it there's a job there for her in men's football, just not this job.

fyfe79

Just did a check there - pre-covid, the average Wimbledon attendance was roughly 4k, Chelsea's was roughly 3k. I take Zaph's point that a struggling League 2 side is not where you'd want to be going, but it would seem that League 2 is probably her level in terms of size of club (I'm assuming 4k attendances would be the norm in L2).

Blanco100

fyfe79 wrote: »

Just did a check there - pre-covid, the average Wimbledon attendance was roughly 4k, Chelsea's was roughly 3k. I take Zaph's point that a struggling League 2 side is not where you'd want to be going, but it would seem that League 2 is probably her level in terms of size of club (I'm assuming 4k attendances would be the norm in L2).

They are in league One.

fyfe79

Blanco100 wrote: »

They are in league One.

Cheers. Mis-read one of the posts above. League One ain't too bad!

osarusan

Here's the 'insult' comment:

"Women's football is something to celebrate, and the quality and the achievement of all the females I represent... it's an insult to them that we talk about women's football being a step down, with the dedication and the commitment and the quality they have," Hayes said.

Here's her clarifying her comments on Wimbledon not being able to 'afford' her:

"I sincerely hope AFC Wimbledon find the right candidate for their football club. The whole point about them not being able to afford me is nothing to do with money, but everything to do with the fact that I'm in the best job in the world. No amount of money is going to tempt me away from that.

Very different from the way the OP framed it tbh.

Mr.Nice Guy

Emma Hayes is a very good manager and it would be a very bad idea to go to League One.

This sport has so many knuckle-dragger 'fans' that young gay players are still terrified of coming out, black men are being routinely racially abused, and women pundits are berated because apparently you need to have a penis in order to understand tactics.

Stay where she is and she can continue winning things, perhaps take on the England women's job at some stage, and be an ambassador for the women's game as it grows.

On the other hand, go to League One and do what? Attract a short-term media furore? Invite the knuckle-draggers to abuse her and her family and wish her to fail, so as to prove to them that 'they belong in the kitchen lol'?

She's well out of all that.

padd b1975

fyfe79 wrote: »

Just did a check there - pre-covid, the average Wimbledon attendance was roughly 4k, Chelsea's was roughly 3k. I take Zaph's point that a struggling League 2 side is not where you'd want to be going, but it would seem that League 2 is probably her level in terms of size of club (I'm assuming 4k attendances would be the norm in L2).

Those attendance numbers are for their small ground at Kingstonian, pretty much close to capacity...

They've now moved to a new ground in Merton right beside the old Plough Lane. It holds about 10,000 with scope to expand if needed.

I'd expect the average attendance to rise sharply once you know what has done it's thing.

It's a club with massive potential and really a more attractive opportunity for an up and coming manager than she has made out.

Richard Hillman

I'm glad this didn't happen. No matter how well or badly she would do, the Media would be telling us she is amazing and if the fans want her out or if she is sacked for bad results, it would be 100% because she is a woman and nothing else.

I think Wimbledon fans would have been open to it and given her a shot like anyone else. Good results, great. Bad results, on your Bike.

I don't think the media are mentally mature enough to have an organic progression. Thats the same with any potential gay footballer. Nobody wants to be "The Gay Footballer". All the weekly pre game media requests, being asked for comment on everything, clubs having pride week every away game. It would be face-palm stuff every week for the poor bloke, who just wants to be treated like everyone else. It's a guaranteed lifetime job in punditry though.

~Rebel~

Blanco100 wrote: »

But male managers are subject to savage abuse also. That's the nature of the game. Happens everywhere in the world.

If that's her reasoning great but as you can see from post above, it's not. Rather it's an insult to be asked to manage at that level.

Her record at Chelsea women means this would be beneath us. Does she expect a premier League job?

Do you actually genuinely believe a line of reasoning like this? Honestly?

It's like saying "straight white kids can get bullied in school, therefore a gay Black kid has nothing to complain about". There - obviously - are levels. The type and scale of malicious intent are different under different circumstances.

Augme

I see her point. There is a lot to be said for being involved in a culture of competing and having a constant expectation and drive to win matches and win trophies.

Going to that from a culture that has a team in a relegation zone is a big switch. Can't say I'd blame anyone for wondering if it is worth it. Given by up what she has at chelsea for a team who might be relegated and then her out of a job soon isn't too appealing really.

ThunbergsAreGo

Zaph wrote: »

She has a choice. Stay at the team that are currently top of the Women's Super League, have a League Cup final coming up next month and are in the last 16 of the Champions League, or move to a team one point above the relegation places to League Two. I don't know why this is even a debate.

Same reason people would leave a job in a small well performing Irish firm to move to a job in a large MNC.

Much more exposure, more money and MUCH bigger upside.

Don't know why this is a debate at all, we wouldn't be having it if it was Chelsea U 23 manager.

HalloweenJack

Clermont in the French second division appointed a female manager in 2014. She quit after a month because she was messed about by the board yet she was replaced by another woman who managed the team for three years. It seems she only left because she was offered the French women's national job.

Does anyone have any more info on how that went?

I don't think the structure of women's football in England is able to be properly compared to that of men's football.

I would think that a better comparison would be to compare it to the men's leagues (in terms of structure) in smaller countries (like say Ireland or Finland) where the top teams have lower attendances but play in Europe and even have internationals in their side and probably don't earn as much or are 'newly' professional. I think that profile of player is closer to the profile of players in women's football.

Now, how many LOI managers go over to the UK and where do they usually start, despite having won leagues, managed professional players and internationals and played in European competitions? So I imagine, to start, to 'prove themselves', it'd have to be lower down the male football structure simply because it's a different beast and they would need to learn the ropes of the bigger professional men's game.

osarusan

I don't follow women's football so I don't know about her achievements in the women's game. If Wimbledon are interested, she must be doing something special where she is. Fair play to her, and fair play to Wimbledon for thinking outside the box.

In one way, it would be a huge* moment if a female coach was hired by an EFL club, but also a hugely poisoned chalice, because if and when it happens, it's likely to be a club that is up shchitt creek and not an attractive option for any manager, male or female, to take over.

*But not that huge - it has happened elsewhere - good summary of that here:

https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/stories/news/detail/renate-blindheim-female-football-coach-men-team/

duffman13

The easy decision is to stay where she is to be honest. Less hassle, more silverware and opportunity to grow her skill set in a comfortable environment. The hassle and spotlight from the Wimbledon job would be off putting in itself.

All that said, I dont understand her remarks and annoyance at being considered for the job. Being headhunted and offered more money in a different company (even if you consider it smaller) is something I know I would consider flattering at the very least.