Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

DM_7

Previous Thread:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058138950

~Rebel~

NukaCola wrote: »

Realistically, its just Kabak in isn't it? Its more than likely going to be Fabinho + another and Hendo back in Midfield I'd say.

Would people be happy to see a combo of Davies/Kabak/Phillips at CB and see our 2 arguably best CMs back in the Midfield.

Ideally I'd like to see Kabak and Davies starting together before too long. it'll probably be gradual, with each being eased in beside Fab, before they could play together - but ultimately i'd like to see that being the partnership over the last 10 games. Well, that's if both perform alright with Fab of course.

Also, 1st.

Yay, Liverpool. Wooooh.
*sigh*

The White Wolf

On missing the fans, I'm sure the players do but at the end of the day, we're the Champions. It's not like we're fcuking Popeye in desperate need of that elusive can of spinach.

Agent Coulson

Play centers backs as center backs no matter how average they are and midfielders as midfielders.

ShamoBuc

I can see why he didnt want the new boys at CB today. But I would have preferred to see one of the lads there and probably Hendo in midfield.

I do not want to see either of today's CB's plat there for the rest of the season.

fyfe79

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Play centers backs as center backs no matter how average they are and midfielders as midfielders.

Agreed. Any 2 CB's would've been roasted like Hendo and Fab were today in isolation, however, had the 2 lads actually been playing in the middle, the City players wouldn't have had the opportunity to roast 2 actual CB's as much! That's what we're missing in midfield.

Play 2 CB's please, Jurgen.

emo72

We should have bought players. If you stand still you go backwards. We've gone backwards at warp speed. You never ever rest on your laurels. You may get a few injuries you know. We've handled it very badly. Positively though we are still a good team, a few players come back from injury and hopefully confidence returns.

SM01

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Play centers backs as center backs no matter how average they are and midfielders as midfielders.

This.

It's not an outlandish idea.

And we've been pretty dishevelled anyway so there's not much to lose (based on 2021 form) in giving it a go.

Gbear

I don't think there's much need to panic.

Maybe we eke out a draw with City if Alisson doesn't throw it into his own net twice. Maybe we even lose 2-1. Either way, I'd be surprised if everyone was losing their minds to the same degree.

There's no particularly easy run of games coming up, but we've opportunities to take points off all our rivals before the end of the season. I'm pretty phlegmatic about the whole thing and I think we'll get some kind of consistency sorted at CB and CM, Jota will come back in, Alisson's head won't melt like that every week and we'll be grand.

~Rebel~

emo72 wrote: »

We should have bought players. If you stand still you go backwards. We've gone backwards at warp speed. You never ever rest on your laurels. You may get a few injuries you know. We've handled it very badly. Positively though we are still a good team, a few players come back from injury and hopefully confidence returns.

When are you talking about? Last summer? Just now? Are you talking about CB's? We did buy two, but it's reasonable enough that they be given a week or so to settle into how Klopp wants them to play.

As for bigger signings, I mean, the club is hemorrhaging money every game there's no fans... no-one is buying. It is what it is. Football has to live in the real world too sometimes.

Fitz*

Null & void the league, thread, everything :O

Thidp

We all knew they were good, but it is absurd how Fabinho and Henderson are missed in midfield. No combination Klopp made so far got near the quality they bring.

They need to be back and just put the CBs to play there because... you know... they are CBs.

yourdeadwright

Subs changed the game in City favour
Jones was playing well today and Shaq was shocking

rob316

For me the league was gone when Klopp played Jota in a nothing game and got injured. Our defending has never really been the problem it's breaking up our midfield has been which has led to a break down of our attack that was already looking tired bar Jota.

NukaCola

Its not as simple as just play CBs as CB though is it? Lets be fair, playing Kabak and Davies/Phillips today just because they are CB's would have been a bigger risk than playing Fabinho and Hendo at CB. New signings need time too.

Augme

I've no problem with the call not to play the 2 new cbs today. It would be a real tough game to throw them into and a bad performance from either could have killed their confidence before it got going. No excuse for one of them not to be starting next game though.

fyfe79

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Subs changed the game in City favour
Jones was playing well today and Shaq was shocking

Yeah Jones should never have been taken off. At one point in the first half he was the only Liverpool player with enough recovery pace, and last man back, to snuff out a City break when they were clean through. Gini and Thiago as a pair do not inspire.

Next day out vs Leicester. Please.

Alisson
TAA Kabak Davis Robbo
Fabinho
Hendo Jones
Kieta
Salah Mane

rob316

NukaCola wrote: »

Its not as simple as just play CB as CBs though is it? Lets be fair, playing Kabak and Davies/Phillips today just because they are CB's would have been a bigger risk than playing Fabinho and Hendo at CB. New signings need time too.

You can't be putting your best midfielders at centre back and expecting the team to function. Were plugging centre back but destroying our midfield and the knock on effect is the front 3 are bereft of confidence and form.

The thing I always liked about Klopp is he played his players in their best positions.

Agent Coulson

Fab's missus is a true fan.

https://twitter.com/reebecatavares/status/1358483493794287616?s=20

NukaCola

rob316 wrote: »

You can't be putting your best midfielders at centre back and expecting the team to function. Were plugging centre back but destroying our midfield and the knock on effect is the front 3 are bereft of confidence and form.

The thing I always liked about Klopp is he played his players in their best positions.

I agree but who would you start at CB today and be honest do you think we'd be better as a result?

Augme

Also, not buying the two CBs at the start of January has been our downfall, not whether we played them against City.

Ì'm more than happy for Gini to leave this summer.

NukaCola

Augme wrote: »

Also, not buying the two CBs at the start of January has been our downfall, not whether we played them against City.

Even a week or two earlier could have made a big difference.

Fitz*

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Subs changed the game in City favour
Jones was playing well today and Shaq was shocking

Yeah I would have left Jones on the pitch myself. He was playing well.

But. To play devils advocate here. Is a midfield of Gini, Jones & Shaq strong enough? I can see why Klopp wanted to bring on Milner here too to give a bit more stability.

Didn't pay off. Team looked worse after the subs. Alisson's mistakes were the killer but if he didn't make those mistakes, Man City might just have won the game anyways through better play. We won't know.

Enzokk

emo72 wrote: »

We should have bought players. If you stand still you go backwards. We've gone backwards at warp speed. You never ever rest on your laurels. You may get a few injuries you know. We've handled it very badly. Positively though we are still a good team, a few players come back from injury and hopefully confidence returns.

What players? We lost all 3 our CB's to long term injuries. No team can plan for this. We did buy players to freshen up the squad and then both got long term injuries as well. We have been so unlucky with injuries it is unreal. But we should still finish in the top 4 this year even with our bad luck.

City have spent 419m euro on their defence in the last 4 seasons. We have spent around 447m euro on 14 players in that time (VVD, Alison, Salah, Keita, Ox, Shaqiri, Thiago, Jota, Davies, Robertson, Fabinho, Minamino, Tsimikas, Oblak). We gave them 2 goals with mistakes from our keeper today and we still were, while outmatched in most areas, not totally outplayed by them. I am still quite positive about our team, even if we have to write off this season.

Fitz*

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ì'm more than happy for Gini to leave this summer.

Served us well to be fair. This season will taint his legacy a bit unfortunately. It's a shame there won't be fans to see him off and thank him for being a big part of the PL win.

He gave his all for the first half of the season and kept the show on the road in midfield, nearly on his own, for a while. kept powering through somehow. He is running on fumes now and is burned out. Recency bias will keep his last performances in mind more than the better ones.

~Rebel~

Fitz* wrote: »

Yeah I would have left Jones on the pitch myself. He was playing well.

But. To play devils advocate here. Is a midfield of Gini, Jones & Shaq strong enough? I can see why Klopp wanted to bring on Milner here too to give a bit more stability.

Didn't pay off. Team looked worse after the subs. Alisson's mistakes were the killer but if he didn't make those mistakes, Man City might just have won the game anyways through better play. We won't know.

Jones didn't have to come off for Milner to come on though... we could've (and perhaps should've) gone with Milner, Gini, Jones, for 10 minutes at least, rather than making a double midfield change.

Enzokk

rob316 wrote: »

For me the league was gone when Klopp played Jota in a nothing game and got injured. Our defending has never really been the problem it's breaking up our midfield has been which has led to a break down of our attack that was already looking tired bar Jota.

In hindsight it was lost when Gomez was injured. It would have been a struggle even with him in the team but once we lost him there was no chance. The problem is that we lost 2 midfielders that would add to the rotation for those players so we lose intensity in the middle of the field. This has an impact on our attack as well.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ì'm more than happy for Gini to leave this summer.

He is being played into the ground because we need do it and it seems like we will not have him next year. I find the knee jerk reaction on the back of a result interesting, when Jones has been average it was that he should not be near the team. Now that he plays well his substitution is the reason we lost today. Not sure what the answer is though.

machiavellianme

Completely agree Rebel. There may have been others more worthy of coming off after that time.

NukaCola

Ox loves a goal vs City, would have liked him to have gotten minutes.

machiavellianme

Enzokk wrote: »

In hindsight it was lost when Gomez was injured. It would have been a struggle even with him in the team but once we lost him there was no chance. The problem is that we lost 2 midfielders that would add to the rotation for those players so we lose intensity in the middle of the field. This has an impact on our attack as well.





He is being played into the ground because we need do it and it seems like we will not have him next year. I find the knee jerk reaction on the back of a result interesting, when Jones has been average it was that he should not be near the team. Now that he plays well his substitution is the reason we lost today. Not sure what the answer is though.

Sadly Gini is the wrong side of 30 and doesn't have the same all rounded abilities as Jimmy. His time has come because we simply can't have another backpassing Midfielder who slows up play. Especially with Hendo and Thiago also at the upper age profile.

Zak Flaps

NukaCola wrote: »

Ox loves a goal vs City, would have liked him to have gotten minutes.

He's the last person i would have liked to have seen on the pitch. And i'm including Adrián.

The White Wolf

NukaCola wrote: »

Ox loves a goal vs City, would have liked him to have gotten minutes.

Poor oul Ox looks a shadow of the man he was in 2018. That man looked a world beater at the time of that awful injury.

I can't give him a hard time over it.

Zak Flaps

Maybe next game Hendo plus Kabak
Followed by Davis Plus Fabinho
Followed by Kabak plus Davis

Enzokk

Just to point why we look tired and not playing with the same energy as before,

https://twitter.com/BassTunedToRed/status/1358473066758692867?s=20

This means there are fewer players to rotate so our players have more minutes that they are playing so it effects the whole team.

rob316

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ì'm more than happy for Gini to leave this summer.

Yep we need to evolve and to me he's the most expendable of midfield 3. Buy a young midfielder about 23 years old to replace him.

Blanco100

Robertson needs a rest aswell, I'd give Tsimikas a run he's a class player. Such a pity Hoever was sold he would have got loads of games and hes a quality young player.

I think he made noises in the summer about targeting X amount of senior games this season. I'd say his sale was more circumstantial than anything, club prob were expecting to shift fringe squad players like Origi and Shaq to balance the books before the pandemic hit, and Wolves saw an opportunity when we went for Jota. Hoever will be a top player.

Neck Williams isn't up to it, TAA needs proper competition he knows he's nailed on to start every week which is no motivation

~Rebel~

Blanco100 wrote: »

Robertson needs a rest aswell, I'd give Tsimikas a run he's a class player. Such a pity Hoever was sold he would have got loads of games and hes a quality young player.

I think he made noises in the summer about targeting X amount of senior games this season. I'd say his sale was more circumstantial than anything, club prob were expecting to shift fringe squad players like Origi and Shaq to balance the books before the pandemic hit, and Wolves saw an opportunity when we went for Jota. Hoever will be a top player.

Neck Williams isn't up to it, TAA needs proper competition he knows he's nailed on to start every week which is no motivation

Ugh, yeah, Hoever having been sold was one of those things you could understand at the time but in practice has been a massive mistake. Would've been the first choice cover at CB ahead of Williams and Philips, and probably the first choice cover at RB. Rather than selling him, we could've actually done with 2 Hoever's this season!

Guy:Incognito

"I don't think we can expect 3 straight years of hard running from the same core group of 13 or 14 players lads. Lots of miles on the clock"


Just catching up with the tail end of the last thread but just on this. Every time the squad size comes up, it was said that Klopp deliberately has a small core squad cos he likes it that way. So this absolutely cannot be used as an excuse when it comes back to bite him in the arse.

SlickRic

I can't be the only one feeling torn here.

On one hand, the performances are pretty terrible lately. And the lack of energy is mental. The season is awful, and Klopp has a responsibility to find answers.

On the other hand, I don't feel as though I can get angry while our injury crisis is blatantly robbing us of solidity.

Harry Palmr

I posted the minutes per player chart about 3 weeks ago and the only change of any note is Thiago becoming a regular starter.

It's just 12 players doing the heavy lifting this season and that has to end NOW.

Play the new centre backs, play Greek lad, put Jota straight in and obviously play Fab and hendo where they are best suited. As much as possible return to the style of 2017/18 with left and right attacker playing from the flank, it's a great way to open up space playing the balls into channels and then having a Hendo or Thiago (who could be moved up the pitch) as the runner from midfield.

Controlling the game isn't really controlling at all unless you score - it's just having the ball a lot. It's no longer working.

Vicxas

Maybe we'll look back at this front page in a while and laugh....

Francie Barrett

Season is a write-off, we should just aim to get through it with no more injuries and not finishing outside of the top 4.

Longer term, I would like to see some personnel changes this Summer. Wijnaldum is obviously gone, wouldn't surprise me to see Milner go as well, even though he still has another year on his contract. Firmino is on a downward trajectory, time to move him on. Shaqiri is also one who is just not quite at the level we need. Critical we get a new box-to-box type midfielder, Henderson is not getting any younger and we desperately need some new energy. Same goes for upfront, would like to see us bring someone in to put pressure and Mane and Salah.

~Rebel~

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

"I don't think we can expect 3 straight years of hard running from the same core group of 13 or 14 players lads. Lots of miles on the clock"


Just catching up with the tail end of the last thread but just on this. Every time the squad size comes up, it was said that Klopp deliberately has a small core squad cos he likes it that way. So this absolutely cannot be used as an excuse when it comes back to bite him in the arse.

It's not quite that simple imo - it's not a huge squad, but we do have HUGE depth in midfield (Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Thiago, Keita, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Milner, Jones), as a solution to the problem of running players into the ground. Most of our teams running is the midfield - they're the ones who bring the energy and the majority of the press since 18/19. And as a result, there's constant rotation there. We had enough men in CM to keep the intensity up fairly indefinitely with the depth to keep people fresh.

The problem isn't the running or squad size - it's losing all of our CB's at once, so that now all of the fit CM's are playing every single game between midfield and defence and no-one can be rested as the system was designed to do. Yes, we should've had an extra CB, but even if we had that and could then have been said to be responsibly covered, losing the other 3 would've created much the same problem as we've found ourselves in. So, basically, it's a bit of a freak occurance. Hopefully the new CB's can settle in enough that our CM's are not so absolutely fucked.

Girly Gal

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ugh, yeah, Hoever having been sold was one of those things you could understand at the time but in practice has been a massive mistake. Would've been the first choice cover at CB ahead of Williams and Philips, and probably the first choice cover at RB. Rather than selling him, we could've actually done with 2 Hoever's this season!

Hoever looked a decent prospect,considering we didn't replace Lovren, it was a mistake to let hoever go, but, it may have been a condition of the Jota sale. No one could have foresaw the 3 CB injuries, but, the club were very slow to respond to it, leaving it until the end of January has meant the new lads now don't have any time to be eased into the team.
Today wasn't the day to start the new lads, but, I thought Philips could have started with Fabinho at CB and push Henderson up to midfield. We have difficult fixtures coming up so it'll be difficult to integrate the new lads into defense, but, we need to get Fabinho and Henderson in midfield, also think Thaigo needs timeout of the team too, he seems frustrated with his form and looks like a red card waiting to happen.

~Rebel~

Girly Gal wrote: »

Hoever looked a decent prospect,considering we didn't replace Lovren, it was a mistake to let hoever go, but, it may have been a condition of the Jota sale. No one could have foresaw the 3 CB injuries, but, the club were very slow to respond to it, leaving it until the end of January has meant the new lads now don't have any time to be eased into the team.
Today wasn't the day to start the new lads, but, I thought Philips could have started with Fabinho at CB and push Henderson up to midfield. We have difficult fixtures coming up so it'll be difficult to integrate the new lads into defense, but, we need to get Fabinho and Henderson in midfield, also think Thaigo needs timeout of the team too, he seems frustrated with his form and looks like a red card waiting to happen.

I'd have liked us to play a Cb today, but would have gone with one of the new lads. It wouldn't have been fair to Philips to throw him in today I think, his game is suited to certain things, but is very vulnerable to other things - and City happen to be in the latter camp. He's poor defending fast players on the ground, and they'd have just attacked him all day and made a fool of him. You saw how Sterling and Foden absolutely rinsed reasonably mobile players (Trent, Fab, and Robbo) - imagine those lads against Philips slow feet.

Harry Palmr

---

KELLEHER
---TAA----KABAK---DAVIES---GREEK

---

FAB

---

HENDO----THIAGO
---MANE

---

SALAH

---

JOTA

then rotate a bit. A bit of me wants CL exit, another bit thinks it could be best chance to play in CL next season, another bit says make sure to finish 7th and avoid Europe entirely for a quiet 2021/22 to rebuild.

murpho999

I'm really not buying this players are tired idea.

They were not tired when playing well and winning. They're elite athletes with the best coaches in the world looking after their fitness.

I think the problems are multiple.
Firstly it's injuries, we've been hammered by them and playing make shift teams since the Everton game.

Jota came in and challenged the front 3 up and looked world class before being injured. At that point people could not see anything beyond Liverpool winning the league.

Losing van Dijk has been huge and changed the positioning, movement and pace of the team . We're playing deeper, transitions are slower and formations are less compact.

Makeshift defence with midfielders playing as centre backs results in more goals leaked as players like Trent are exposed as he does not get the cover like van Dijk and/or Gomez/Matip give.

I'm not panicking yet and think we'll get top 4, especially with players to come back.

If you look at City last season they had problems and had an awful season but are flying now. Hammered us today without Aguero and de Brunye.

We're having a similar season to City last season and next season if we have full squad back and some additions then they'll be flying again.

~Rebel~

murpho999 wrote: »

I'm really not buying this players are tired idea.

They were not tired when playing well and winning. They're elite athletes with the best coaches in the world looking after their fitness.

I think the problems are multiple.
Firstly it's injuries, we've been hammered by them and playing make shift teams since the Everton game.

Jota came in and challenged the front 3 up and looked world class before being injured. At that point people could not see anything beyond Liverpool winning the league.

Losing van Dijk has been huge and changed the positioning, movement and pace of the team . We're playing deeper, transitions are slower and formations are less compact.

Makeshift defence with midfielders playing as centre backs results in more goals leaked as players like Trent are exposed as he does not get the cover like van Dijk and/or Gomez/Matip give.

I'm not panicking yet and think we'll get top 4, especially with players to come back.

If you look at City last season they had problems and had an awful season but are flying now. Hammered us today without Aguero and de Brunye.

We're having a similar season to City last season and next season if we have full squad back and some additions then they'll be flying again.

Just compare how much our CM players - the lads who have always brought the bulk of the team's energy - are being rested and rotated now versus over the last two seasons. The difference is significant.

Agent Coulson

This has been pretty much the team for the last 2/3 seasons.


Whatever is wrong with Mane is quiet worrying really his form and work rate have dropped off a cliff he is not the same player he has been since he arrived in England.

Bobby form and touch is muck however his work rate is still there he runs and runs and tracks all over the pitch to no avail really.

Gini is the only consistent in midfield and is wrecked.

Robbo is on a hiding to nothing on the left as he is not getting the support he was over the last few seasons from Mane and VVD is missing beside him in defence to cover his attacking play.

Hendo and Fab are not center backs and are missed from midfield.

TAA needs a proper break however since there is no real cover for him he isn't getting that.

Ali's form is so so along with Covid and inquires and not having a consistent defence in front of him.


Salah is the only saving grace this season so far.

VVD, Gomez, Matip all out.

~Rebel~

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Whatever is wrong with Mane is quiet worrying really his form and work rate have dropped off a cliff he is not the same player he has been since he arrived in England.

Bobby form and touch is muck however his work rate is still there he runs and runs and tracks all over the pitch to no avail really.

Gini is the only consistent in midfield and is wrecked.

Robbo is on a hiding to nothing on the left as he is not getting the support he was over the last few seasons from Mane and VVD is missing beside him in defence to cover his attacking play.

Hendo and Fab are not center backs and are missed from midfield.

TAA needs a proper break however since there is no real cover for him he isn't getting that.


Salah is the only saving grace this season so far.

I think a lot of this is connected - the energy from midfield is nothing compared to the last 2 seasons, and we're seeing the forwards have to come deeper and do more thankless running than we have since 17/18. I think that's really effecting Mane and Bobby. Salah is coping because he's a physical phenomenon. Like Robbo, Mo is a machine who can run more without sacrificing his effectiveness too much.

IMO a lot of things may start to get better if we can play the new CB's at CB, and go back to rotating our CM's so that no single one of them has to play more than 2 games in a row.