Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

~Rebel~

Ikozma wrote: »

Should put all our eggs in the cl basket now, top 4 is gone, we might do a 2005 on it

Top 4 is absolutely nowhere near gone. At only 3 points off it, with 39 points still to play for, literally any upturn in form brings us back in contention.

Ikozma

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Top 4 is absolutely nowhere near gone. At only 3 points off it, with 39 points still to play for, literally any upturn in form brings us back in contention.

Don't do it to yourself bud, it's gone

Girly Gal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I had been of the opinion for over a month now that we really wouldn't get going untill the next game week iv said it constantly but i dis think we would have scrapped a few wins and kept in touch,

I think this gets worse before better, Our squad looks horrific of late, Shaq, Ox, Origi coming on to change games , We are actually missing Milner that says it all really

Even without injuries we have
No adequate GK cover,. Hoping Kelleher learns on the job
No adequate right or left back cover,
CB one whos worthy to call cover but is always injured
Midfeild Shaq, Ox, Milner arent good enough, Keita injured 24/7, Gini leaving
1 person to cover for the front 3

Alisson, Trent, Robbo, VVD, Gomez, Thiago, Henderson Fabhino, Jones, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Jota 13 players we can rely on come the start of next season


Thats mental after 6 years of klopp

Realistically if we don't beat Chelsea on Thursday week, top 4 is highly unlikely, with most teams around us in better form or having games in hand even Europa League will be difficult. Without CL or Europa football next season it'll be difficult to attract the players we need to improve the squad and replace those leaving. Don't think we'll see many coming in, they'll probably keep Kabak as financially it's not a huge outlay on a young player who they can recoup their investment in, Minamino, Eliot and Grujic, will probably come back from loan to replace outgoing players (possibly Karius too, to replace Adrian), plus the CBs will return from their long term injuries, keita will be kept and I think Ox will too (mainly as he's homegrown qualified, we don't really have many of those in squad). We'll probably sign someone else, but, I don't really see much investment next summer unfortunately.

~Rebel~

Ikozma wrote: »

Don't do it to yourself bud, it's gone

I’m just not big on grand pronouncements, especially when they’re so premature.

Maybe we’ll get top 4, maybe we won’t. It’s pointless definitively declaring either way with so little in it and so much of the season to play.

Harry Palmr

The great thing about the CL is how the squad can be readied for each game and the psychological approach - you know that any away win gives you a 60/70% chance of winning the tie and progressing to the next stage. At 0-2 the percentage is probably about 75-80& and suddenly it's the quarter finals. With a decent draw do it again and you can see the promised land and semi finals are perfect for Liverpool under Klopp, be fast and fearless.

Teams play to win, not avoid a loss as it's a knockout effectively, the officials are generally more competent and certainly quicker allowing the game to flow better all of which suits Liverpool. Jota will be back, Fabinho will be back, players Like Thiago, Keita, Shaqiri who for different reasons can find it hard in the PL can breath a bit in this competition.

I'd put our chances of winning it at "quite good" despite how witless the side looks in the Prem.

Guy:Incognito

Steyr 556 wrote: »

100% **** it, what's to lose this season?

European qualification.

~Rebel~

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The great thing about the CL is how the squad can be readied for each game and the psychological approach - you know that any away win gives you a 60/70% chance of winning the tie and progressing to the next stage. At 0-2 the percentage is probably about 75-80& and suddenly it's the quarter finals. With a decent draw do it again and you can see the promised land and semi finals are perfect for Liverpool under Klopp, be fast and fearless.

Teams play to win, not avoid a loss as it's a knockout effectively, the officials are generally more competent and certainly quicker allowing the game to flow better all of which suits Liverpool. Jota will be back, Fabinho will be back, players Like Thiago, Keita, Shaqiri who for different reasons can find it hard in the PL can breath a bit in this competition.

I'd put our chances of winning it at "quite good" despite how witless the side looks in the Prem.

Long as we don’t draw Atleti again!

Harry Palmr

They lost today!

But yeah I'd sooner draw PSG or Bayern (who also lost today) than that lot.

BVB are also looking rocky, and in modest control of their CL destiny at this minute.

theoneeyedman

8 points from the last 30,unbelievable.

mosstin

theoneeyedman wrote: »

8 points from the last 30,unbelievable.

And still well within touching distance of the top 4. Lots still to play for.

ben.schlomo

It really is like an old school Monday meltdown in here. Sign Kane for 150m, of course, because Levy would sell to a rival, may as well just sign Haaland and Mbappe too sure. Klopp has lost the dressing room? Top 4 is gone, with 39 points to play for, no, no it isn't gone. Really, do ye read the things ye are writing before ye post?

Utopia Parkway

theoneeyedman wrote: »

8 points from the last 30,unbelievable.

It’s outrageously bad form really. Mad to think we were top after the Palace 7-0. I can’t recall a plummet in results like that before mid season. Went from title winning form to relegation form.

SM01

Augeo wrote: »

There's no way they are giving 100%... 7 pts from 9 pl games in 2021. All considered, injuries, bad luck & VAR they are not giving 100%.

Disagree. For all the reasons you've listed.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Top 4 is absolutely nowhere near gone. At only 3 points off it, with 39 points still to play for, literally any upturn in form brings us back in contention.

I reckon we'd need 9 wins & 3 draws to get top 4.... Fairly slim chance TBH but fingers crossed.

SM01

SM01 wrote: »

Disagree. For all the reasons you've listed.

7 pts from 9 games, results speak for themselves.

SM01

Augeo wrote: »

7 pts from 9 games, results speak for themselves.

Or 6th/7th in the league reflects the calibre of team we're able to field.

chicorytip

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I asked the question has Klopp lost the dressing room and if not how many more losses befoe he does

We are in relagation form Sonce the end of December

Im not sure we can just blame injuries anymore, we are getting beat by everyone we play, Teams made up of worse football players weekly

Im not calling fpr Klopp to be sacked but something drastic needs to change or thats the way its s
heading

He could just walk. It must be a source of frustration for him not being able to sign really top drawer players rather than the likes of Kabak and Alcantra. I think signing Harry Kane ought to be the foremost priority for the board. He is so good that he could carry this particular squad back to the summit almost on his own. It helps that Klopp is also one of his greatest admirers and would love him at the club. So why not break the bank? 150 Mill, whatever it takes. It could turn out to be a fantastic long term investment.

Charlie19

I feel sorry for Thiago, he seems to be getting a lot of stick for our poor form and while some of it is warranted, I do think he's been thrown into a mix bag. The sooner we can get back to having our three work man like midfield the better.

Kabak is another one getting abuse but I'm not sure what people thought we were getting from a 20 year old CB from a team that had the worst record defensively in the German top league. He might come good but Jesus we needed experience at this time.

The club took a massive gamble and went shopping in the equivalent of the bargain basement of Michael Guineys.

MD1990

Something changed with our defense after 18/19.

That season we were exceptional in defence & probably was our peak even though we had the great run last season.

Norwich at home in 19/20 started the higher line with Norwich getting in behind.

Even with Van Dijk & Gomez we have year on year since 18/19 got worse in defence. Villa conceding 7. Man City 4. Atletico 3. This is with Van Dijk & Gomez.

The protection from midfield since then has got worse is probably a big problem. Gini looks knackered. Fabinho at CB. Milner injured & aging.Henderson
Thiago doesnt have the pace. We really need a dynamic midfielder in the summer. Bissouma would be ideal I think.

Ikozma

Ndidí from Leicester would be a great signing

~Rebel~

Ikozma wrote: »

Ndidí from Leicester would be a great signing

Excellent player, but would have both Fabinho and Hendo ahead of him as a 6.

Still definitely room for him, but given what he’d cost, I’d rather that sort of money on a more dynamic attacking midfielder.

murpho999

Ikozma wrote: »

Don't do it to yourself bud, it's gone

How is it gone?

3 points behind with 13 games to go.

Would you call a title challenge over with if we were in second place and 3 points behind the leaders?

The Mig

It’s actually painful watching us this season. We’ve been blessed the previous 2 seasons to have such good football to watch. Jaysus even the 2 before that was exciting because we scored loads but conceded a decent amount too.

kingshankly

Ikozma wrote: »

Should put all our eggs in the cl basket now, top 4 is gone, we might do a 2005 on it

“Top 4 is gone “ 🙈I’ll take a bet if your interested

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

How is it gone?

3 points behind with 13 games to go.

Would you call a title challenge over with if we were in second place and 3 points behind the leaders?

We're in an abysmally bad run of form.
We likely need to win 9 of our remaining 13 games and draw 3 to get top4.... That's title winning form that we've not mustered all season.

After 15 league games we'd 32 points I think.... We'd need to better that ppg haul over the final 13 games when we're on a brutal run currently. Not many teams will play the way we need them to for us to prosper. Our tricks aren't working this season without VVD.

Chesty08

Something drastic needs to happen, do you think Klopp should look to a change in shape?

Either way Firmino needs out for the foreseeable , he gives us nothing. He isn’t asking any questions of centre halves & so it’s easier for them

RugbyLover123

Ikozma wrote: »

Ndidí from Leicester would be a great signing

We need a 9 and a replacement for Gini a hell of a lot more then another player who plays in the 6 role?? By the time we could sign him we’ll have Fabinho, Henderson and Thiago vying for playing in the role Ndidi would occupy?

Nerdlingr

Don't know why we haven't changed to a 4231 yet.
Play our CBs at CB!! Two sitters in midfield protecting them. Mane, Salah wide with a number ten...Shaq/Keita/Ox/Thiago/Jones?...and bobby as an out and out no. 9.

Full backs can still push on as we've two sitters who can shuttle across and cover the ground/space.

Thought minamino would have been perfect for the no. 10 but instead we sent him down south where he's got two goals in three games.

Klopp needs to change something as the same personal week in week out has us in relegation form. The last few months performances have been rinse and repeat. Surely if you can see its not working then change it up!

I'd put Bobby as a 10 in a 4 2 3 1 with origi as the out and out 9. Let Mo do whatever he likes.

Nerdlingr

Augeo wrote: »

I'd put Bobby as a 10 in a 4 2 3 1 with origi as the out and out 9. Let Mo do whatever he likes.

Yep, not a bad idea. Gotta try something... Bobby can't hit a barn door for the best part of two years now...why not use or squad and give origi a go. Did alright when we needed him a few years back.

The Mig

Augeo wrote: »

I'd put Bobby as a 10 in a 4 2 3 1 with origi as the out and out 9. Let Mo do whatever he likes.

I’d **** Bobby into the Mersey if I had my way

~Rebel~

Augeo wrote: »

We're in an abysmally bad run of form.
We likely need to win 9 of our remaining 13 games and draw 3 to get top4.... That's title winning form that we've not mustered all season.

After 15 league games we'd 32 points I think.... We'd need to better that ppg haul over the final 13 games when we're on a brutal run currently. Not many teams will play the way we need them to for us to prosper. Our tricks aren't working this season without VVD.

Only 2 of the 6 or 7 realistic top 4 challengers (Man City and Chelsea) have managed more than 2 wins in the last 5 games.

Obviously our form needs to turn around pronto, but if it does, any sort of a decent run could put us into a good position pretty quickly. A solid ~2ppg from here in might well do it I'd say.

3rd place was 66 points last season. Wouldn't be too surprised if 3rd or 4th was around that area again.

But again, of course, it needs to start now.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Only 2 of the 6 or 7 realistic top 4 challengers (Man City and Chelsea) have managed more than 2 wins in the last 5 games.

...

Only Southampton have managed less points than us in the last 5 games :eek:

I've no doubt we'll improve from our 2021 league form over the remaining 13 games but I'm struggling to see us throw a 2ppg run together. I said it a game or so ago, I fear there'll be a scar tissue or something.... It's a lot to ask TBH coming from our current position/form. And the injuries of course.... Klopp reckons Henderson's situation doesn't look good ahead of the scan. We're fncked without Henderson.

We could end up fighting it out with west ham or everton for 6th or 7th ��

~Rebel~

Augeo wrote: »

Only Southampton have managed less points than us in the last 5 games :eek:

I've no doubt we'll improve from our 2021 league form over the remaining 13 games but I'm struggling to see us throw a 2ppg run together. I said it a game or so ago, I fear there'll be a scar tissue or something.... It's a lot to ask TBH coming from our current position/form. And the injuries of course.... Klopp reckons Henderson's situation doesn't look good ahead of the scan. We're fncked without Henderson.

We could end up fighting it out with west ham or everton for 6th or 7th ��

We definitely need to catch a break alright. It doesn't happen without either Fabinho or Henderson back in midfield - ideally both. With our current midfield, we play plenty of nice midfield passes. With the two lads in midfield, we physically dominate teams. We really need Hendo's thing to just be a 2 to 3 week thing. Any longer and we're in serious trouble. He's the heart and soul of that team.

Charlie19

The Mig wrote: »

I’d **** Bobby into the Mersey if I had my way

Nice one!

Good comment from a Mod! boards member since 2013 and less than 2000 posts but can throw this sort of remark that would normally produce some sort of infraction to the norm.

Mod in Horse Racing and you're post is thanked by someone by the name of Tiger Roll:eek:

simongurnick

Gini drifts through games way too often and its even worse alongside thiago. Thiago is the guy the sets up the guy the sets up the score. But too often the second guy is gini and he plays sideway passes.
I think bobby is toast at this stage too. And the bench is dreadful, albeit because of the injuries. Origi and shaq were the two attacking options today. Awful.

yourdeadwright

Chesty08 wrote: »

Something drastic needs to happen, do you think Klopp should look to a change in shape?

Either way Firmino needs out for the foreseeable , he gives us nothing. He isn’t asking any questions of centre halves & so it’s easier for them

Firmino is finished and has been for about a year now
He is zero goal threat its laughable at this stage that he is our 9

Girly Gal

If Fabinho is back next week, he needs to play in midfield, along with Keita and Jones, we need someone in midfield who can break up opposition attacks, protect the back 4 and start off our own attacks, play Kabak and Philips at CB ( or Davies). I'd leave Thaigo and Gini on the bench until last 20/30 mins to replace Keita and Fabinho if they start to tire in last 20/30 mins. Firmino also needs to be dropped, might be as well to try Origri or Shaqiri instead, although neither have been great recently.
Whatever we do in remainding league fixtures we need to move away from playing either Fabinho or Henderson at CB as our midfield is not functioning properly when either are missing from it, especially when Milner is also missing.

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Firmino is finished and has been for about a year now
He is zero goal threat its laughable at this stage that he is our 9

He scored 9 pl goals last year after playing in every league game.... 6 so far so he's actually as potent in front of goal.
He's great when he's / we're good but he was never a striker as such IMO. Less than a 1 in 3 at his peak does not a striker make.
As you say minimal goal threat when we aren't on form.... Opposition happy enough when he's on the ball I imagine.... Mo is definitely the main man anyway up that end of the pitch.

SlickRic

Don't get me wrong, I know why this slump is driving so much conversation and debate. The champions putting up such a limp title defence after near 2 and a half years of perfection, is a big continuing story.

At the same time, it really doesn't take much analysis.

Teams work, generally, in 3 year cycles, then you refresh. Fergie found it. Wenger found it. Mourinho can't do it, hence he only ever lasts 3 years. That just seems to be the norm.

Klopp knew it. In order to win the league, we progressed towards a control based game. It worked. Thiago is the next piece in that puzzle. Jota came to refresh the forward options. Klopp did enough to refresh, but not too much so he'd destabilise.

We start the season ok. The 7-2 against Villa gets thrown as a sign we were going to fail anyway. But that was an anomaly, just like our hammering of Palace. Merely a sign of a strange season and teething problems with a team trying to evolve. I'd much rather point to a controlled demolition of Chelsea, a good performance at Everton that we should've won, and a tit for tat struggle at City as signs the team was fine in the main.

Our collapse is down to a very basic thing. It's not Klopp losing the dressing room, or shortened pre season, or the dramatic end to this team's cycle, or Dortmund 2.0 (which isn't, by the way, as horrific as many think!).

It's the injuries. It's not allowed Thiago integrate. It's not allowed consistency of selection, and therefore hasn't allowed a rhythm to build. It's not just VVD.

Any other analysis is largely redundant. That is where it starts. If you think that's an excuse, I don't fúcking care. You're just saying that to act the díck. You know well it's the reason. Should we be doing a bit better? Probably. Then again, I'm not an elite manager or part of an elite football team, so I don't know what level of performance should be expected from this level of injuries in one foundational position, which has then resulted in our DMs now being out. I'm just a fan who likes bítching and moaning.

Anyway, I can't wait for next season's revenge tour, potentially in front of fans.

Blanco100

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Which is fine. We're run like an actual proper football club, spending what we earn. I don't want it any other way to be honest.

Except it's not though is it.

Outspent by 80% of teams in the league the last 3 years.

In a time of crisis our manager is handed a 20 year old and a PNE CB on Feb 1st.

Something miserable about having to sell someone for big money before we can making meaningful additions. Really big clubs with ambition make signings to compliment what they have.

Girly Gal

The problems in the team run deeper than just injuries, even a fully fit VVD wouldn't solve all our problems, but, obviously would be a great start. The really big problem with the squad is that so many of the back up players aren't good enough, we really don't have the strength in depth we thought we had, just think back to last season when a second string deservedly beat Everton in the cup, now we can't even get a draw.

Our midfield without at least one of Henderson, Fabinho or Milner, just doesn't function properly, Thiago just doesn't want to know about the defensive side of things and Gini is fatigued, also probably mentally already thinking about Barca, only Jones has performed well and he's only learning his trade so we can't expect him to be consistent either.
Very hard to see how we get European football now, but, we need to get a positive finish to the season even if we miss out on Europe. If this form continues until the end of the season, there could be a hangover into next season. Also missing out on European football not only makes it more difficult to attract players, but, it'll be more difficult to hold onto our better players too

doc_17

It was complete negligence from our owners not to have a centre half lined up on Jan 1. The brilliance of Klopp took them to the top of world football on £10m net per transfer window whilst city were spending 5/6 times that.

I feel sorry for Klopp in that regard. We also need a little bit of refreshing in midfield after Gini leaves. But when we get VVD back we’ll be too 4 again.

yourdeadwright

What Kloop has done has been amazing but how poorly do you allow it to become?

People who say it doesn't matter what happens between now and the end of the season are wrong, The manger no matter who can not be kept if the fall below a certain standard but where is that standard? It will get to a stage where you canf repair it

We can't let this turn into a Wenger at Arsenal for instance,

This is more than a blip now guys like Firmino are finished hes not going to wake up one morning and be suddenly good enough again hes done,

We nesd two wins in our next two Prem games anything less and pressure on the manger position will start to mount for the first time since hes been on the job

yourdeadwright

Augeo wrote: »

He scored 9 pl goals last year after playing in every league game.... 6 so far so he's actually as potent in front of goal.
He's great when he's / we're good but he was never a striker as such IMO. Less than a 1 in 3 at his peak does not a striker make.
As you say minimal goal threat when we aren't on form.... Opposition happy enough when he's on the ball I imagine.... Mo is definitely the main man anyway up that end of the pitch.

Its not just his goals, 9 last season was bad for the main striker in a team that walked the league and he played nearly every game,

Biggest problem is this season is how poorly his all round play has been, He is a shadow of his former self for well over a year now

Luckycharms_74

Seeing Everton celebrating in dressing like they won the league shows how much this result meant to them, just like saints manager crying, or United in the cup. Anyone who beats us it’s still a huge scalp which to me seems like they know we are still a top team.

We write off this season and I’m confident the squad and manager will come back hungrier next year

What really stood out last night was we didn’t let Everton know they were in a derby. No early “reducer” tackles.

A couple of depressing stats

More games lost in 2021 (6) than 2019 & 2020 combined
First time since 1923 that we loose 4 hone games in a row

yourdeadwright

Not sure people realise how close this could be to the end of Klopp if we lose to Sheffield United next weekend and it could be the beginning of the end,
Be intresting to see how the player react if they lose that one

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I know why this slump is driving so much conversation and debate. The champions putting up such a limp title defence after near 2 and a half years of perfection, is a big continuing story.

At the same time, it really doesn't take much analysis.

Teams work, generally, in 3 year cycles, then you refresh. Fergie found it. Wenger found it. Mourinho can't do it, hence he only ever lasts 3 years. That just seems to be the norm.

Klopp knew it. In order to win the league, we progressed towards a control based game. It worked. Thiago is the next piece in that puzzle. Jota came to refresh the forward options. Klopp did enough to refresh, but not too much so he'd destabilise.

We start the season ok. The 7-2 against Villa gets thrown as a sign we were going to fail anyway. But that was an anomaly, just like our hammering of Palace. Merely a sign of a strange season and teething problems with a team trying to evolve. I'd much rather point to a controlled demolition of Chelsea, a good performance at Everton that we should've won, and a tit for tat struggle at City as signs the team was fine in the main.

Our collapse is down to a very basic thing. It's not Klopp losing the dressing room, or shortened pre season, or the dramatic end to this team's cycle, or Dortmund 2.0 (which isn't, by the way, as horrific as many think!).

It's the injuries. It's not allowed Thiago integrate. It's not allowed consistency of selection, and therefore hasn't allowed a rhythm to build. It's not just VVD.

Any other analysis is largely redundant. That is where it starts. If you think that's an excuse, I don't fúcking care. You're just saying that to act the díck. You know well it's the reason. Should we be doing a bit better? Probably. Then again, I'm not an elite manager or part of an elite football team, so I don't know what level of performance should be expected from this level of injuries in one foundational position, which has then resulted in our DMs now being out. I'm just a fan who likes bítching and moaning.

Anyway, I can't wait for next season's revenge tour, potentially in front of fans.

Nice spiel but in the context of 7 pts from 9 pl games I feel it's somewhat lacking. Fnck etc

Luckycharms_74

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

......

What really stood out last night was we didn’t let Everton know they were in a derby. No early “reducer” tackles.

A couple of depressing stats
....

That's just how we are really, can't fault it too much as our success wasn't built on that sort of game and in derbies unless someone in red lost the head you never expected us to go that way.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not sure people realise how close this could be to the end of Klopp if we lose to Sheffield United next weekend and it could be the beginning of the end,
Be intresting to see how the player react if they lose that one

No chance he'll be under any real pressure IMO regardless how bad season goes. We could finish outside top 8 the only chance of him leaving is if he walks.

Ikozma

murpho999 wrote: »

How is it gone?

3 points behind with 13 games to go.

Would you call a title challenge over with if we were in second place and 3 points behind the leaders?

It's gone because this team is gone, have you not been watching since December 2020??