DCC to consider putting traveller accommodation in public parks

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm all for zero (or at least low) tolerance to anyone receiving state aid, but assimilation is not and should not be required for anyone.

In any case, what is the target behaviour you want everyone to assimilate into?
Is it leafy suburbs with only a few murders outside nightclubs and an inconvenient cocaine habit or is its more working class areas with a worrying blackmarket, cash in hand lifestyle?

I'm interested to see you present this as a cliché/regular occurance of the "leafy suburbs" - I can only think of a single case concerning the above, and it occured over twenty years ago.

I don't think it's something that happens regularly at all but maybe you've many more examples?

Or maybe you've just got a chip on your shoulder...

Wibbs

GreeBo wrote: »

Well they don't, I gave two examples of behaviour displayed by non-traveller Irish. Are you expecting assimilation from them also?

We already do expect it. Maybe you missed the memo, but both your examples are illegal. They don't conform to the culture almost by definition.

What is your target culture?

Mainstream Irish culture which has far more positive rates of education, health, longevity, employment, criminality, spousal abuse and so forth.

Sure they are, but they are part of non-traveller Irish culture so...

Logic failure.

Thelonious Monk

I can't see anything changing regarding travellers and how they live in my lifetime anyway. There's some guy called Bernard Sweeney, a traveller on twitter, who defends absolutely everything they do to the hilt. He seems to blame everything on non-travellers being English or post-colonial or something, and that travellers don't want to live in this post-colonial English world that the rest of us subscribe to.
His excuse is that they never wanted to live in this country we've created, or something.
So they really do not want to change, and they want us to provide everything for them. I don't know what the solution is really.

Invidious

GreeBo wrote: »

Well they don't, I gave two examples of behaviour displayed by non-traveller Irish. Are you expecting assimilation from them also?

Surely everybody should be expected to obey the laws of the country? So, yes, I do expect people engaged in black-market trading or illegal drug use to assimilate, if "assimilate" means "obey the law."

Rates of early school leaving, unemployment, welfare dependency, criminality, spousal abuse, and anti-social behavior are off the charts in the Travelling community, as compared to mainstream society. The numbers are shocking. Fewer than 1 percent of Travellers have a third-level education and over 80 percent are unemployed.

This is not just some minor cultural variation, such as between Mayo and Dublin, as you phrased it earlier. It's about a significant element of society touting a so-called culture that openly spurns mainstream norms around education, employment, family planning, behaving lawfully, treating other people and their property with respect, etc.

Should Travellers be forced to change their traditional culture? Of course, just as the rest of us have had to adapt to change as the country, its economy, and its society have evolved, especially over the past 40 years. Leaving school barely literate at age 12, marrying your cousin at 17, wandering the countryside in a caravan, and pumping out 8 kids for the taxpayer to support only functions as a "culture" as long as the hard-pressed taxpayer keeps footing the bill.

Wibbs

anplaya27 wrote: »

Unfortunately sometimes there are barriers in place though to these aspects of mainstream Irish culture ( not the criminality or spousal abuse parts) but rather education, employment, healthcare and so on.

Certainly and much of that is down to background community prejudice, but much of it is down to Traveller culture not valuing such things, more, outright rejecting many of the norms of wider society which in turn drives prejudice. Healthcare and education in this country is essentially "free", or at least can be for those who can't pay for it. Given over 80% of Travellers are already in receipt of social welfare payments and near permanently then why aren't they availing of other social service options, especially for their children? There is nothing to stop Travellers who feel they won't get a fair shake in mainstream education from lobbying for subsidised schools for them within the national school system, but the will is almost completely lacking. Education is about the biggest factor in life success and they simply don't value it within the culture.

anplaya27

anplaya27 wrote: »

Unfortunately sometimes there are barriers in place though to these aspects of mainstream Irish culture ( not the criminality or spousal abuse parts) but rather education, employment, healthcare and so on.

Some of these are self imposed barriers.

Every child in Ireland is entitled to a free education. Availing of that free education is however concomitant on their parents actually seeing to it that they go to school.

Invidious

Batrachotox wrote: »

Availing of that free education is however concomitant on their parents actually seeing to it that they go to school.

Backed up by a willingness of the authorities to enforce.

The Education (Welfare) Act 2000 stipulates a minimum school-leaving age of 16, or 3 years of second-level education, whichever comes later.

If a regular settled family took their 12-year-old out of school, you can be sure somebody would be knocking on the door to ask questions. But this doesn't seem to be enforced in the case of Traveller families, where a very high percentage of children have left school permanently before 16.

Invidious

Invidious wrote: »

Backed up by a willingness of the authorities to enforce.

The Education (Welfare) Act 2000 stipulates a minimum school-leaving age of 16, or 3 years of second-level education, whichever comes later.

If a regular settled family took their 12-year-old out of school, you can be sure somebody would be knocking on the door to ask questions. But this doesn't seem to be enforced in the case of Traveller families, where a very high percentage of children have left school permanently before 16.

Agreed.

Do think those enforcement issues are likely due to a specific policy of the government or due to issues they may have had with confronting traveller families in the past?

anplaya27

Batrachotox wrote: »

Some of these are self imposed barriers.

Every child in Ireland is entitled to a free education. Availing of that free education is however concomitant on their parents actually seeing to it that they go to school.

Yes true, but sometimes that education is simply not accessible.

Wibbs

anplaya27 wrote: »

Yes but I was talking generally ( I'm a Deaf ISL user)

Oh sure, but a disability is a very different thing to a subculture. It requires a different set of approaches to help a person reach their educational potential.

anplaya27 wrote: »

Yes true, but sometimes that education is simply not accessible.

How so? If the parents are travelling about all over the place that is not the fault nor remit of a modern educational system. If the parents are removing their sons and daughters from schooling that's is not the fault of a modern educational system. Their lifestyle is quite simply incompatible with modern western society.

GreeBo

WrenBoy wrote: »

No they are not, thats like saying skydiving is part of Icelandic culture because Icelandic people have done it.

Or that dumping, stealing and anti-social behaviour is part of Traveller culture because some of then engage in it?

GreeBo

Wibbs wrote: »

We already do expect it. Maybe you missed the memo, but both your examples are illegal. They don't conform to the culture almost by definition.

Laws != culture, otherwise we wouldnt be arresting people for breaking said laws.

Wibbs wrote: »

Logic failure.

I'm afraid you are going to have to explain that better than witty 1 liners.

GreeBo

Batrachotox wrote: »

I'm interested to see you present this as a cliché/regular occurance of the "leafy suburbs" - I can only think of a single case concerning the above, and it occured over twenty years ago.

I don't think it's something that happens regularly at all but maybe you've many more examples?

I was giving it as an example of behavior that we see from non traveler circles, I notice that you conveniently ignored the other aspects of my post?

Batrachotox wrote: »

Or maybe you've just got a chip on your shoulder...

Now that you are going to have to explain to me....a chip about what and against whom?

GreeBo

Invidious wrote: »

Surely everybody should be expected to obey the laws of the country? So, yes, I do expect people engaged in black-market trading or illegal drug use to assimilate, if "assimilate" means "obey the law."

Well thats not what assimilate means, you are talking about conformity which is totally different.
Assimilate means to "absorb and integrate (people, ideas, or culture) into a wider society or culture."
If you truly mean assimilate then that would mean a change to current Irish culture as part of said assimilation.
If you want nothing of the traveller culture to be integrated then you are looking for conformity.
Assuming it is conformity, for the purpose of debate, what makes "your" culture right and "theirs" wrong? Is it purely down to numbers within each culture or is it down to who was here first?

Invidious wrote: »

Rates of early school leaving, unemployment, welfare dependency, criminality, spousal abuse, and anti-social behavior are off the charts in the Travelling community, as compared to mainstream society. The numbers are shocking. Fewer than 1 percent of Travellers have a third-level education and over 80 percent are unemployed.

If you are trying to imply that I am advocating we all act like travellers or that travellers (or indeed anyone) behaves in a criminal manner then you are wrong.

GreeBo

Batrachotox wrote: »

Some of these are self imposed barriers.

Every child in Ireland is entitled to a free education. Availing of that free education is however concomitant on their parents actually seeing to it that they go to school.

It also relies on those children not being targeted or singled out by society when they do try to go to school.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

I was giving it as an example of behavior that we see from non traveler circles, I notice that you conveniently ignored the other aspects of my post?

You gave it as an example of behaviour one might encounter in "Leafy suburbs" - something that happens once in over two decades isn't exactly emblematic of a regular pattern of behaviour. As I said I may be wrong
- perhaps you have evidence of other occurences of that happening to provide, which could establish it as behaviour worthy of use as an example?

I didn't refer to the rest of your post as there are plenty of actual cases of people with cocaine addictions or dealing in a cash in hand lifestyle, hence they're reasonable examples of behaviour of the general populace.

GreeBo wrote: »

Now that you are going to have to explain to me....a chip about what and against whom?

A chip against areas you'd regard as "leafy suburbs" and your perception of the people that live in them. Why else would you make use of a horrible incident from 20+ years ago and act like it's somehow a commonplace occurance in those places?

blanch152

GreeBo wrote: »

Well thats not what assimilate means, you are talking about conformity which is totally different.
Assimilate means to "absorb and integrate (people, ideas, or culture) into a wider society or culture."
If you truly mean assimilate then that would mean a change to current Irish culture as part of said assimilation.
If you want nothing of the traveller culture to be integrated then you are looking for conformity.
Assuming it is conformity, for the purpose of debate, what makes "your" culture right and "theirs" wrong? Is it purely down to numbers within each culture or is it down to who was here first?



If you are trying to imply that I am advocating we all act like travellers or that travellers (or indeed anyone) behaves in a criminal manner then you are wrong.

For the purposes of debate, there are certain things that should not be part of any culture:

• Spousal abuse
• Removing girls from education early
• Arranged marriages of girls under 18
• Criminality
• Bareknuckle fighting
• Abuse of animals
• Begging

There is no doubt that all of the above from part of modern-day traveller culture, whether by design or otherwise. And of course, there are people who indulge in these practices, either in other cultures or in wider society. However, many of them are claimed as traditional practice within Traveller culture and that does not make them acceptable. It is often claimed that Traveller culture is a rich one, but that is hidden behind cultural practices that breach human rights norms. Like all cultures, it needs to adapt to modern norms and human rights.

To give an example from Irish culture. It would be fair to suggest that traditional Irish culture included mother and baby homes as a way for society to deal with unmarried mothers. It was culturally acceptable in the middle of the 20th century. However, Irish culture has matured beyond accepting such human rights breaches. All that is being asked is that Traveller culture do the same.

PintOfView

Deleted User wrote: »

FFS, its on her profile page on dublincity.ie.

It's not exactly classified information.

If she doesn't live on the square mentioned by the original poster then mentioning Ranelagh is fine.
If she does live on that square then imho it's out of order to mention it.

Thelonious Monk

GreeBo wrote: »

It also relies on those children not being targeted or singled out by society when they do try to go to school.

What does this mean? Who in their right mind would pick on the traveller kid in school?

GreeBo

Batrachotox wrote: »

You gave it as an example of behaviour one might encounter in "Leafy suburbs" - something that happens once in over two decades isn't exactly emblematic of a regular pattern of behaviour. As I said I may be wrong
- perhaps you have evidence of other occurences of that happening to provide, which could establish it as behaviour worthy of use as an example?

I didn't refer to the rest of your post as there are plenty of actual cases of people with cocaine addictions or dealing in a cash in hand lifestyle, hence they're reasonable examples of behaviour of the general populace.

Fair enough, but your ignoring of the other examples didnt seem like it was because you agreed with them.
I wasnt trying to say that its something that is frequently occurring, merely that it has occurred so its not like all travellers are bad and all non travellers are good.

A chip against areas you'd regard as "leafy suburbs" and your perception of the people that live in them. Why else would you make use of a horrible incident from 20+ years ago and act like it's somehow a commonplace occurance in those places?

Considering I have done and currently do live in them it would seem a strange position for me to take!

GreeBo

blanch152 wrote: »

For the purposes of debate, there are certain things that should not be part of any culture:

• Spousal abuse
• Removing girls from education early
• Arranged marriages of girls under 18
• Criminality
• Bareknuckle fighting
• Abuse of animals
• Begging

There is no doubt that all of the above from part of modern-day traveller culture, whether by design or otherwise. And of course, there are people who indulge in these practices, either in other cultures or in wider society.

And thats exactly the point, if you think the above are confined to travellers (and indeed all travellers) I would say you are incorrect.
Do you not see any danger in tarring them all with one brush?

To give an example from Irish culture. It would be fair to suggest that traditional Irish culture included mother and baby homes as a way for society to deal with unmarried mothers. It was culturally acceptable in the middle of the 20th century. However, Irish culture has matured beyond accepting such human rights breaches. All that is being asked is that Traveller culture do the same.

But you are kinda implying that travellers wont be welcomed into Irish society until they stop (for example) spousal abuse or criminality, even though those very things are widespread in Irish society.
Why is "their" abuse or criminality worse than "ours"?

GreeBo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What does this mean? Who in their right mind would pick on the traveller kid in school?

I think you know exactly what it means?

Singled out or targetted doesn't mean that someone is beating the crap out of them, they could equally be ostracised or ignored, both of which are pretty common reactions to people who are deemed different.

WrenBoy

GreeBo wrote: »

But you are kinda implying that travellers wont be welcomed into Irish society until they stop (for example) spousal abuse or criminality, even though those very things are widespread in Irish society.
Why is "their" abuse or criminality worse than "ours"?

People who engage in those activities are not "welcome" in wider society, they are seen as criminal elements that wider society would like to see arrested and removed from society through the justice system.

blanch152

GreeBo wrote: »

And thats exactly the point, if you think the above are confined to travellers (and indeed all travellers) I would say you are incorrect.
Do you not see any danger in tarring them all with one brush?



But you are kinda implying that travellers wont be welcomed into Irish society until they stop (for example) spousal abuse or criminality, even though those very things are widespread in Irish society.
Why is "their" abuse or criminality worse than "ours"?

I am being very careful here to draw a distinction between traveller culture, the behaviour of individual travellers and the behaviour of travellers in general. In response, you are trying to blur the distinctions.

Irish culture allowed the mother and baby homes situation in the mid-2oth century to exist and prosper. That doesn't mean that every Irish father sent their daughter to a home, neither does it mean that every Irish person or even a majority of Irish people actively supported the mother and baby homes. Yet, it was part of the culture, part of the fabric, and people turned a blind eye and/or didn't actively oppose it. That is how culture can be twisted towards evil ends.

So I am not saying that every Traveller support bareknuckle fighting or that every Traveller indulges in bareknuckle fighting, but I am saying that bareknuckle fighting is an inappropriate feature of Traveller culture.

So back off from the insinuation that I am implying anything. My view is clear and unambiguous. It is also non-discriminatory and based on human rights and dignity for all.

The Traveller community needs to stand up and acknowledge that Traveller culture needs to change and needs to get rid of inappropriate aspects, in the same way that Irish culture has rejected mother and baby homes, adopted a more welcoming attitude to sexuality, and rejected violence as a means of pursuing political objectives. All of those are changes that have taken place in Irish culture, and were difficult for some to accept, but they were changes that needed to happen and were recognised as such.

GreeBo

WrenBoy wrote: »

People who engage in those activities are not "welcome" in wider society, they are seen as criminal elements that wider society would like to see arrested and removed from society through the justice system.

Agreed, but we should treat travellers in the exact same way surely?

Mr Meanor

Wait till one or two of them builds a house on the land.
Has happened before.

GreeBo

blanch152 wrote: »

I am being very careful here to draw a distinction between traveller culture, the behaviour of individual travellers and the behaviour of travellers in general. In response, you are trying to blur the distinctions.

I'm not trying to blur them, I'm trying to understand how the distinction is relevant in this context?

blanch152 wrote: »

So I am not saying that every Traveller support bareknuckle fighting or that every Traveller indulges in bareknuckle fighting, but I am saying that bareknuckle fighting is an inappropriate feature of Traveller culture.

So back off from the insinuation that I am implying anything. My view is clear and unambiguous. It is also non-discriminatory and based on human rights and dignity for all.

The Traveller community needs to stand up and acknowledge that Traveller culture needs to change and needs to get rid of inappropriate aspects

And this is what I dont understand. Are you saying that we cant welcome any travellers into the community until they elect some spokesperson who makes the statements you want?
Where does that leave all the travellers who just want to settle down now? Or indeed want to remain nomadic albeit within the societal norms?

You can't say that you are not generalising but then expect them to come together as a single community? How does that even work?
Lets say they somehow did manage it yet some remained outside of this group and wanted to continue the "old ways"...what then? Is it somehow the responsibility of the collective to manage or police them all?

Mad_maxx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I can't see anything changing regarding travellers and how they live in my lifetime anyway. There's some guy called Bernard Sweeney, a traveller on twitter, who defends absolutely everything they do to the hilt. He seems to blame everything on non-travellers being English or post-colonial or something, and that travellers don't want to live in this post-colonial English world that the rest of us subscribe to.
His excuse is that they never wanted to live in this country we've created, or something.
So they really do not want to change, and they want us to provide everything for them. I don't know what the solution is really.

Sweeney is mad as a balloon , he views Pavee Point as traitors to his people

Mad_maxx

anplaya27 wrote: »

Wibbs wrote: »

Mainstream Irish culture which has far more positive rates of education, health, longevity, employment, criminality, spousal abuse and so forth.

Unfortunately sometimes there are barriers in place though to these aspects of mainstream Irish culture ( not the criminality or spousal abuse parts) but rather education, employment, healthcare and so on.

any barriers are ones that travellers have erected themselves

kildare lad

GreeBo wrote: »

It also relies on those children not being targeted or singled out by society when they do try to go to school.

It's their own side that pulls them out of school. My son has travellers in his year and I'm telling you there is no one bullying travellers in his school . And I'd be very surprised if it was happening anywhere else. You'd wanna be very brave or stupid to do so. The one that's in my son's class is mad but in a harmless type of way , but his older brother got thrown out of school for stabbing a student with a compass . The one in my son's class never does his homework and it's got to the stage where the teachers don't bother asking him anymore whereas my son will get a note home if his isn't done . Now do you blame the school for his homework not being done or is it his parents fault for not making him to do . You can keep blaming society all you want but theres huge problems in travellers culture when it comes to education , violence , criminality , alcoholism etc

kildare lad

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Sweeney is mad as a balloon , he views Pavee Point as traitors to his people

I though his Twitter was a piss take for a minute, the chaps on another planet

batman_oh

kildare lad wrote: »

It's their own side that pulls them out of school. My son has travellers in his year and I'm telling you there is no one bullying travellers in his school . And I'd be very surprised if it was happening anywhere else. You'd wanna be very brave or stupid to do so. The one that's in my son's class is mad but in a harmless type of way , but his older brother got thrown out of school for stabbing a student with a compass . The one in my son's class never does his homework and it's got to the stage where the teachers don't bother asking him anymore whereas my son will get a note home if his isn't done . Now do you blame the school for his homework not being done or is it his parents fault for not making him to do . You can keep blaming society all you want but theres huge problems in travellers culture when it comes to education , violence , criminality etc

That's crazy talk. We should give them even more special treatment and free things while they continue to do what they want. It's our fault for bullying them

blanch152

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm not trying to blur them, I'm trying to understand how the distinction is relevant in this context?


And this is what I dont understand. Are you saying that we cant welcome any travellers into the community until they elect some spokesperson who makes the statements you want?
Where does that leave all the travellers who just want to settle down now? Or indeed want to remain nomadic albeit within the societal norms?

You can't say that you are not generalising but then expect them to come together as a single community? How does that even work?
Lets say they somehow did manage it yet some remained outside of this group and wanted to continue the "old ways"...what then? Is it somehow the responsibility of the collective to manage or police them all?

Where did I say that travellers shouldn't be welcomed into the community?

This isn't about statements either, this is about cultural development and enrichment.

It comes down to leadership and individual behaviour. How and why did mother and baby homes die out? Through a combination of individual families not sending their daughters there and government legislating for women's rights.

Now, I have answered a lot of your questions, so perhaps you will answer mine. Which of the following aspects of Traveller culture would you like to see preserved?

• Spousal abuse
• Removing girls from education early
• Arranged marriages of girls under 18
• Criminality
• Bareknuckle fighting
• Abuse of animals
• Begging

And who do you think bears the responsibility for getting rid of the ones you deem unacceptable?

kildare lad

GreeBo wrote: »

And thats exactly the point, if you think the above are confined to travellers (and indeed all travellers) I would say you are incorrect.
Do you not see any danger in tarring them all with one brush?



But you are kinda implying that travellers wont be welcomed into Irish society until they stop (for example) spousal abuse or criminality, even though those very things are widespread in Irish society.
Why is "their" abuse or criminality worse than "ours"?

Would you go for a few pints with someone that beats up his wife and robs houses at night ?

Mad_maxx

batman_oh wrote: »

That's crazy talk. We should give them even more special treatment and free things while they continue to do what they want. It's our fault for bullying them

the policies towards travellers ( which were and are espoused by the left ) this past three decades have failed miserably , relations between them and us are worse than ever

naturally the correct thing to do is to allow liberals to dictate policy for the next three decades as well

Mad_maxx

if a group finds itself on the lefts sacred cow list , it can never be responsible for anything itself in anyway , so it goes with travellers who rank high on the lefts sacred cows list in ireland

anything negative associated with travellers is the fault of the state ( not enough funding for " traveller specific accommodation " etc ) or society itself with its " prejudice and racism "

the WOKE adopted travellers as a pet pious cause a good few years ago , they are firmly in charge when it comes to policy , none of this bodes well for travellers and especially the tax payer

GreeBo

kildare lad wrote: »

It's their own side that pulls them out of school.

Ignoring the gross generalization for a minute, are you saying that in no situations are travellers treated any differently in schools, by either peers or teachers, to the extent that they may not feel welcome or comfortable there?

Salvation Tambourine

Is there anything stopping traveler buying a plot of land to live on? Sorry if this is a stupid question but why does the government need to provide a place for them to live?

ED E

Nokotan wrote: »

Is there anything stopping traveler buying a plot of land to live on? Sorry if this is a stupid question but why does the government need to provide a place for them to live?

Why does the government need to fund everything for them?

Because they can't get jobs.

Why can't they get jobs?

Because they're heavily undereducated to the point of often being illiterate.

Why are they illiterate?

Because school doesn't align with their culture.

Mad_maxx

GreeBo wrote: »

Ignoring the gross generalization for a minute, are you saying that in no situations are travellers treated any differently in schools, by either peers or teachers, to the extent that they may not feel welcome or comfortable there?

kids will treat other kids as different in school for countless reasons and those kids need not be travellers though on occasion could be , do you want every form of signalling out eliminated ?

that could be tricky

Mad_maxx

ED E wrote: »

Why does the government need to fund everything for them?

Because they can't get jobs.

Why can't they get jobs?

Because they're heavily undereducated to the point of often being illiterate.

Why are they illiterate?

Because school doesn't align with their culture.

the Traveller population are essentially wards ( no pun intended ) of the state for life

TomTomTim

[QUOTE=GreeBo;116233345]Ignoring the gross generalization for a minute, are you saying that in no situations are travellers treated any differently in schools, by either peers or teachers, to the extent that they may not feel welcome or comfortable there?[/QUOTE]

Calling out generalizations really isn't that effective when the generalization is true for the vast majority of the community.

kildare lad

GreeBo wrote: »

Ignoring the gross generalization for a minute, are you saying that in no situations are travellers treated any differently in schools, by either peers or teachers, to the extent that they may not feel welcome or comfortable there?

Ah here we go again , poor travellers bla bla bla... I'm sure you'll find a situation if you look hard enough . Do you actually know any travellers in the real world ? I know plenty and get on with quiet a few and nearly everyone I've meet has got a neck on him like a jockeys bollock, but if you think there's students picking on them you're living on another planet .

GreeBo

Mad_maxx wrote: »

kids will treat other kids as different in school for countless reasons and those kids needs not be travellers though on occasion could be , do you want every form of signalling out eliminated ?

that could be tricky

No I don't, but if its acceptable for settled people to treat (potentially settled) travellers differently then I would suggest that this is a societal problem that *we* have?

Change traveller to any other ethnicity and would we accept the same behaviour?

GreeBo

kildare lad wrote: »

Ah here we go again , poor travellers bla bla bla... I'm sure you'll find a situation if you look hard enough . Do you actually know any travellers in the real world ? I know plenty and get on with quiet a few and nearly everyone I've meet has got a neck on him like a jockeys bollock, but if you think there's students picking on them you're living on another planet .

TomTomTim wrote: »

Calling out generalizations really isn't that effective when the generalization is true for the vast majority of the community.

So I'm not really interested in continuing a conversation that relies on generalizations tbh.

Thelonious Monk

kildare lad wrote: »

I though his Twitter was a piss take for a minute, the chaps on another planet

It actually made me feel easy how warped his views are, I'm glad it's not just me.

Nokotan

Nokotan wrote: »

Is there anything stopping traveler buying a plot of land to live on? Sorry if this is a stupid question but why does the government need to provide a place for them to live?

What stops anyone buying land or houses?
Why do the state have to provide anyone with homes?

BettyS

GreeBo wrote: »

No I don't, but if its acceptable for settled people to treat (potentially settled) travellers differently then I would suggest that this is a societal problem that *we* have?

Change traveller to any other ethnicity and would we accept the same behaviour?

From personal experience, I have first hand witnessed discrimination against a non-Irish person in the University context.

Are you honestly diminishing the discrimination that other ethnicities face? Can you honestly say that you there is no discrimination against non-Caucasians? Are only travellers the victims of discrimination in the classroom? I find your suggestion to be deeply offensive. You are diminishing the very real struggle of another group to further your argument

Now let me ask you a question, why is it that these other ethnicities manage to achieve such a high level of education, in spite of them being treated differently? Please, I am very keen to know the difference between the two groups in terms of higher educational attainment?

kildare lad

Nokotan wrote: »

Is there anything stopping traveler buying a plot of land to live on? Sorry if this is a stupid question but why does the government need to provide a place for them to live?

No there's nothing stopping them but why would they , if they shout loud enough the government will do it for then .It's the same way they want the taxpayer to house every refugee in the country while honest workers can't afford house or have to pay huge rents/mortgages. It's some system

kildare lad

GreeBo wrote: »

So I'm not really interested in continuing a conversation that relies on generalizations tbh.

But it's alright to generalize us then . Answer me this , say you lived beside a field and the council were going to put 20 caravans in that field , would you mind ??