DCC to consider putting traveller accommodation in public parks

blanch152

kildare lad wrote: »

I wouldn't hold your breath, I asked him/her a question 3 times yesterday and still couldn't get a yes or no answer .

The awkward questions, asked from a non-discriminatory perspective are ignored by that poster.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

The awkward questions, asked from a non-discriminatory perspective are ignored by that poster.

You do know the list you put up of traveller culture, is your discriminatory idea of traveller culture?
While some of it may be correct, getting married young, for example, some of the other issues you listed are plainly your impression of travellers.

There is no culture anywhere, that I know, that lists spousal abuse or criminality as 'part of their culture '
These are activities, that you, and plenty of others, believe travellers engage in.
Not culture

GreeBo

blanch152 wrote: »

Still waiting for GreeBo to answer these questions.

Sincere apologies, please dont tell my mom that I missed a post on boards.ie. :rolleyes:

blanch152 wrote: »

Where did I say that travellers shouldn't be welcomed into the community?

You said "The Traveller community needs to stand up and acknowledge that Traveller culture needs to change and needs to get rid of inappropriate aspect"
so are you saying that you welcome them in but only if "they" do the above or that you will welcome them in either way?

blanch152 wrote: »

It comes down to leadership and individual behaviour. How and why did mother and baby homes die out? Through a combination of individual families not sending their daughters there and government legislating for women's rights.

A bit like individual travellers settling down and going to second and third level education?
Or perhaps enforcing the legislation around schooling or abiding by the laws?
Or are you ok with, for example, the Garda abdicating their responsibility to protect innocents in traveller areas just because its hard?

blanch152 wrote: »

Now, I have answered a lot of your questions, so perhaps you will answer mine. Which of the following aspects of Traveller culture would you like to see preserved?

• Spousal abuse
• Removing girls from education early
• Arranged marriages of girls under 18
• Criminality
• Bareknuckle fighting
• Abuse of animals
• Begging

Wow, strawman much? Are the they only things that you associate with travellers? As a group they only have negative traits?

Can I list a bunch of negative things in wider Irish society that we have to remove before travellers will want to join?

blanch152 wrote: »

And who do you think bears the responsibility for getting rid of the ones you deem unacceptable?

Who bears the responsibility of getting rid of the problems in Irish society that aren't related to travellers?
Your question has no meaning or answer. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

BattleCorp

bubblypop wrote: »

There is no culture anywhere, that I know, that lists spousal abuse or criminality as 'part of their culture '
These are activities, that you, and plenty of others, believe travellers engage in.
Not culture

Definition of culture:

the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.

GreeBo

bubblypop wrote: »

You do know the list you put up of traveller culture, is your discriminatory idea of traveller culture?
While some of it may be correct, getting married young, for example, some of the other issues you listed are plainly your impression of travellers.

There is no culture anywhere, that I know, that lists spousal abuse or criminality as 'part of their culture '
These are activities, that you, and plenty of others, believe travellers engage in.
Not culture

Exactly!
Its a pretty good example of how this kind of attitude is deemed ok when its against travellers, but wouldnt last very long if it was directed at black people (for example)

blanch152

bubblypop wrote: »

You do know the list you put up of traveller culture, is your discriminatory idea of traveller culture?
While some of it may be correct, getting married young, for example, some of the other issues you listed are plainly your impression of travellers.

There is no culture anywhere, that I know, that lists spousal abuse or criminality as 'part of their culture '
These are activities, that you, and plenty of others, believe travellers engage in.
Not culture

Irish culture until the recent past included:

• Homophobia
• Intolerance of religious difference
• Racism
• Intolerance of marital break-up
• Intolerance of illegitimacy

1950s and 1960s Ireland saw these cultural traits as normal. Through education and legislative change, as well as leadership from within society, these negative aspects of culture are no longer acceptable in the mainstream. However, the main drive was from ordinary people no longer accepting these cultural behaviours.

The same element of progression has yet to be seen in Traveller culture. There is a distinct lack of leadership from organisations such as Pavee Point on the list of cultural issues I identified in my previous post, and no sign of leadership or change from within the community. One of the key things about cultural change is that it cannot be imposed from without, it has to come from within.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Irish culture until the recent past included:

• Homophobia
• Intolerance of religious difference
• Racism
• Intolerance of marital break-up
• Intolerance of illegitimacy

1950s and 1960s Ireland saw these cultural traits as normal. Through education and legislative change, as well as leadership from within society, these negative aspects of culture are no longer acceptable in the mainstream. However, the main drive was from ordinary people no longer accepting these cultural behaviours.

The same element of progression has yet to be seen in Traveller culture. There is a distinct lack of leadership from organisations such as Pavee Point on the list of cultural issues I identified in my previous post, and no sign of leadership or change from within the community. One of the key things about cultural change is that it cannot be imposed from without, it has to come from within.

I would disagree totally on your ideas of Irish culture.
There was definitely an attitude that the church was right & society in general did as they were told by the church.
But your list of intolerance was not any way Irish culture.

In much the same way as your list of traveller 'culture'

BTW, I am not condoning any illegal activities that anyone, traveller or not, participate in.

eireholidays

They should build 3 large halting sites with proper facilities.
1 in Dalkey, Blackrock and Rathgar

1 large one in the North East, North West, South East, South West, Midlands

This would provide accommodation, links to schoools for the travelling community allowing them to mix with the general public

Invidious

bubblypop wrote: »

There is no culture anywhere, that I know, that lists spousal abuse or criminality as 'part of their culture '
These are activities, that you, and plenty of others, believe travellers engage in.
Not culture

These are not just "beliefs." They are based in fact.

Traveller women are 30 times more likely than settled women to suffer domestic abuse. (Source: Irish Times)

Travellers make up 0.6 per cent of the population yet account for 10 percent of male prisoners and 22 percent of female prisoners in Ireland. (Source: Irish Times)

Cultural traits can be negative as well as positive. Practices such as female genital mutilation, ritual scarification, and honour killings are all cultural practices, albeit harmful ones. Similarly, negative cultural practices exist in Traveller culture. As just one example, I linked earlier in the thread to a prominent Traveller defending 16-year-olds getting married as "part of our tradition."

Galwayguy35

I'd imagine this would be a tricky one for the SD, Labour, Green Party and SF councillors, of course they can't be seen to be against the sacred ethnic minority but the ones in the areas were they want to put them will also have a few angry voters to deal with.

blanch152

bubblypop wrote: »

I would disagree totally on your ideas of Irish culture.
There was definitely an attitude that the church was right & society in general did as they were told by the church.
But your list of intolerance was not any way Irish culture.

In much the same way as your list of traveller 'culture'

BTW, I am not condoning any illegal activities that anyone, traveller or not, participate in.

Culture has negative and positive aspects.

Even today, Irish culture has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. An ambivalent attitude to violence to achieve political ends also still lingers as part of Irish culture. Both are deeply negative aspects of Irish culture.

Homophobia was an intrinsic part of Irish culture. We have to own and acknowledge that.

Traveller culture has some serious issues, most especially around the treatment of women. That needs to change. The treatment of women within Traveller culture is a disgrace and is not acceptable.

GreeBo

kildare lad wrote: »

I wouldn't hold your breath, I asked him/her a question 3 times yesterday and still couldn't get a yes or no answer .

Why on earth do you think I would I waste my time replying to this sort of rubbish?:rolleyes:

kildare lad wrote: »

Would you go for a few pints with someone that beats up his wife and robs houses at night ?

kildare lad

GreeBo wrote: »

Why on earth do you think I would I waste my time replying to this sort of rubbish?:rolleyes:

Rubbish ? It's a simply question you ignored 3 times yesterday . You refused to answer it because you'd look like a hypocrite . I'll ask you again for the craic . If the council put 20 caravans in beside where you were living , would you mind ??