Seller unwilling to negotiate

BnB

DavyD_83 wrote: »

What do you do when the cashier in Tesco doesn't want to negotiate?

That reminds me of an old friend of mine. Old school hard worker and working in sales in an Engineering company so his whole day was hardnosed wheeling and dealing.

On the imminent arrival of their first baby, he was was dragged to a horrendously overpriced (I should know - I was a victim too) shop in the Cresent in Limerick called Mamas and Papas. After racking up just short of a grand at the till he started into his "what's the best you can do it for" routine only to be met by a blank face from the poor young one at the counter. After him pushing hard at an obviously locked door for a few minutes she finally "gave in" and said, I will throw in a Mamas and Papas catalog (which shockingly did normally cost €2) for free.

He was so shocked he just took the catalog and paid up.

He told us that story at a wedding and had us all in tears because of how genuinely indignant he still was as he told us a few months later.

partyguinness

To be fair the cashier at Tesco or mamas and papas has got absolutely zero flexibilty to haggle.

Any independent store that is open to haggling will just mark up the price anyway so you can 'haggle' them down to what is good for the shop owner in the first place.

jimmycrackcorm

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Baffled by some of the advice on this thread. People seem scandalised at the notion of bidding below asking despite none of us knowing if the asking is completely inflated. Is there not a saying about if you're not embarrassed by your opening offer, it's probably too high?

Why not offer 50% under then?
The most likely scenario is that the OP is trying to utilise the position as a cash buyer to get an advantage with his cash buyer status.
But the seller is in no hurry so both parties time is wasted with such a low underbid.

It will only be completely inflated if it eventually goes for under asking price, but the OP doesn't want to wait that long to find out.

grogi

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Why not offer 50% under then?
The most likely scenario is that the OP is trying to utilise the position as a cash buyer to get an advantage with his cash buyer status.
But the seller is in no hurry so both parties time is wasted with such a low underbid.

Well, if the seller is not in rush, there is no time wasted anyway...

maestroamado

maestroamado wrote: »

All of the properties i bought in my lifetime (7) were below asking price except for one i paid full ask price.
My point is if you don't get it is i asked the EA if he accept full ask price and all i got, well well waffle.
I said same to him as i am saying as i am kinda friendly with him...

This thread has taken a strange turn.

Like most, I’m struggling to understand your viewpoint/gripe.

It seems you think EAs should know in advance what the highest amount a buyer is willing to pay for a property (the “value”), and/or, the lowest point at which the vendor will sell.

Taking your own property, if you decided to put a minimum price on that when selling, and told the EA this, what would your response be if bidding continued on above the your “value” point? Would you tell the bidders that they only need to pay the lower price, or would you let the bidding continue until the highest bidder is found?

maestroamado

Dav010 wrote: »

This thread has taken a strange turn.

Like most, I’m struggling to understand your viewpoint/gripe.

It seems you think EAs should know in advance what the highest amount a buyer is willing to pay for a property (the “value”), and/or, the lowest point at which the vendor will sell.

Taking your own property, if you decided to put a minimum price on that when selling, and told the EA this, what would your response be if bidding continued on above the your “value” point? Would you tell the bidders that they only need to pay the lower price, or would you let the bidding continue until the highest bidder is found?

If i was selling i would chat with EA and agree a figure a bit above as askiing price.
If it reached the agreed figure "sold"
Thats the way business is done in my view.
I have a pretty good idea of what property value is.
The last property i let it go 5k less than i intended as it was a semi and my neighbors who i shared the roof knew the couple buying as they were renting across the road.
It was worth more than 5k to me for my good older neihbors not have hassle going forward.
I find we Irish as a people want to squeeze every little bit out of everything...

MrMusician18

MojoMaker wrote: »

Housing stock is low, it's a seller's market in almost all regions, but especially within an ar$e's roar of a city, and is ALWAYS a sellers market in Dublin.

And why mention the word cash so objectively, when there is no other currency accepted for purchasing a house than cash.

Is Adverts.ie standard low-balling nonsense infecting real life now??

It may well be a seller's market but the neighbouring apartment to mine sold a few months ago sold for 8% less than asking. Further down the road there were three identical apartments for sale in the same complex with a €50k difference between the most expensive, (270) and cheapest (220) asking.

Asking prices are just that, an ask. The market price is often very different. So yeah, if a house was on the market at €350k but I felt it was only worth €330k I wouldn't feel bad about low balling them. Real low balling is when the buyer and seller know that the price offered is well below market value and the buyer is hoping some other pressure (usually time) will force the seller to accept.

maestroamado

maestroamado wrote: »

If i was selling i would chat with EA and agree a figure a bit above as askiing price.
If it reached the agreed figure "sold"
Thats the way business is done in my view.
I have a pretty good idea of what property value is.
The last property i let it go 5k less than i intended as it was a semi and my neighbors who i shared the roof knew the couple buying as they were renting across the road.
It was worth more than 5k to me for my good older neihbors not have hassle going forward.
I find we Irish as a people want to squeeze every little bit out of everything...

Would you not be concerned that by taking this approach, you may either get the valuation wrong or underestimate what someone is willing to pay? Therefore potentially costing yourself a lot of money.

It seems an odd approach to take, most sellers want to maximise selling price and are willing to let bidding come to a conclusion with a highest bid.

Not withstanding that, surely you understand that it is the vendor, not the EA who gets to set that “selling point”?

iColdFusion

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It may well be a seller's market but the neighbouring apartment to mine sold a few months ago sold for 8% less than asking. Further down the road there were three identical apartments for sale in the same complex with a €50k difference between the most expensive, (270) and cheapest (220) asking.

Asking prices are just that, an ask. The market price is often very different. So yeah, if a house was on the market at €350k but I felt it was only worth €330k I wouldn't feel bad about low balling them. Real low balling is when the buyer and seller know that the price offered is well below market value and the buyer is hoping some other pressure (usually time) will force the seller to accept.

Its always worth trying to find out how much the seller paid for the property in the first place via the property price register or some google research, with those apts you could have the most expensive one being sold by someone who overpaid during boom times and the cheapest one bought up cheap by someone with cash in the bank during the recession, different sellers looking for different returns.

maestroamado

Dav010 wrote: »

Would you not be concerned that by taking this approach, you may either get the valuation wrong or underestimate what someone is willing to pay? Therefore potentially costing yourself a lot of money.

It seems an odd approach to take, most sellers want to maximise selling price and are willing to let bidding come to a conclusion with a highest bid.

Not withstanding that, surely you understand that it is the vendor, not the EA who gets to set that “selling point”?

I am kinda finished with this as if people differ its ok.
To finish i am pretty confident that most EAs have a pretty good idea of property value in their area and asking price should reflect this knowledge.
For me under-stating the value of property is distorting the housing market as a few properties i have noticed recently have gone a bit over asking price.
Letting bidding conclude is what i call an auction.
I do agree people want to maximize price but i do not agree the way it is breing done at moment. This may be around for years but i only recently became aware of this practice.
I have talked to a few EAs recently and this the way things done now.
i remember the phrase "gazumping" so it seems this is the norm for EAs now.
I simply f=do not agree with this practice...

maestroamado

maestroamado wrote: »

I am kinda finished with this as if people differ its ok.
To finish i am pretty confident that most EAs have a pretty good idea of property value in their area and asking price should reflect this knowledge.
For me under-stating the value of property is distorting the housing market as a few properties i have noticed recently have gone a bit over asking price.
Letting bidding conclude is what i call an auction.
I do agree people want to maximize price but i do not agree the way it is breing done at moment. This may be around for years but i only recently became aware of this practice.
I have talked to a few EAs recently and this the way things done now.
i remember the phrase "gazumping" so it seems this is the norm for EAs now.
I simply f=do not agree with this practice...

I can certainly see how what you are saying benefits the buyer, a certain price is reached = property sells, but how does this benefit the seller if the property sells at a predetermined price point that may not reflect the highest price a buyer is willing to pay? In effect, the seller could be losing thousands, even tens of thousands by not letting the bidding process run its course.

That is either very generous, or bonkers.

In relation to gazumping, isn’t that where a sale is agreed, then another higher bid is made by another bidder and accepted by the seller? That has nothing to do with guide prices, and you must also consider that some bidders do pull out of agreed sales to buy other properties. So reneging on sale agreed is not particular to one side or the other.

maestroamado

maestroamado wrote: »

I bought quite a few properties and last 10+ years ago and this practice was not there at that time except as guide price at auction.
From meomory all property i bought were around asking price.
Now people are being asked to pay mpore than asking price.
For me this is DODGY it be interesting to see if anyone here agrees..

Ten years ago the country was in the toilet and houses were being repossessed.

Vultures were picking them up with a few lucky first time buyers included.

partyguinness

Dav010 wrote: »

In relation to gazumping, isn’t that where a sale is agreed, then another higher bid is made by another bidder and accepted by the seller? That has nothing to do with guide prices, and you must also consider that some bidders do pull out of agreed sales to buy other properties. So reneging on sale agreed is not particular to one side or the other.

Gazumping goes further than that. The original offer is accepted and the process proceeds as normal until just before the legal exhange of contracts a new buyer emerges with a better offer and the seller jumps across to them instead thus leaving the original 'buyer' with 2-3 months of wasted time and costs and very pissed off (mortgage offer and legals all well advanced).

Unfortunately until legal exchange the seller (and buyer) is free to do what they want.

By the same token, the buyer can walk away at any point.

In Scotland they have cut this out so that once accepted and deposit paid that is it.

slipperyox

Agree to full price.
And just before paperwork is signed, demand a pre sale inspection and valuation.
And by the time the sale comes into happening, house prices may have fallen, hence renegotiate/ quible.

All's fair in love and war, its just a game, Business, nothing personal.

Thats what I'd do.

seenn00J

slipperyox wrote: »

Agree to full price.
And just before paperwork is signed, demand a pre sale inspection and valuation.
And by the time the sale comes into happening, house prices may have fallen, hence renegotiate/ quible.

All's fair in love and war, its just a game, Business, nothing personal.

Thats what I'd do.

More likely (if they're buying this year anyway) the opposite is likely to happen.

slipperyox

Either way, its good tact

slipperyox

slipperyox wrote: »

Agree to full price.
And just before paperwork is signed, demand a pre sale inspection and valuation.
And by the time the sale comes into happening, house prices may have fallen, hence renegotiate/ quible.

All's fair in love and war, its just a game, Business, nothing personal.

Thats what I'd do.

Would you be concerned that by the time you want to reopen negotiations, prices may have gone up and the seller may feel that they can get more?

All’s fair and all that jazz.

slipperyox

Well. The denial is certainly here.
But very soon, Mary O'Gara working at home is gonna be replaced by Mary Singh in Bangalore,
The states debt, is gone through the roof.

The covid deaths will release new properties soon after probates,

just my take.

If I was buying now, I'd be buying end of this year next year.

slipperyox

Dav010 wrote: »

Would you be concerned that by the time you want to reopen negotiations, prices may have gone up and the seller may feel that they can get more?

All’s fair and all that jazz.

I wouldn't be concerned, as the OP can't afford it anyway atm.

slipperyox

slipperyox wrote: »

I wouldn't be concerned, as the OP can't afford it anyway atm.

I think you’d be a bit sore if you reopened negotiations and the price went up.

In a downturn in the housing market, your offer would be fine OP. 2013/2014 for example.

Bit different now I'd imagine.

partyguinness

slipperyox wrote: »

Agree to full price.
And just before paperwork is signed, demand a pre sale inspection and valuation.
And by the time the sale comes into happening, house prices may have fallen, hence renegotiate/ quible.

All's fair in love and war, its just a game, Business, nothing personal.

Thats what I'd do.

That 'tactic' works better in a buyers' market. It was rampant here in the UK about 8-10 years ago. In fact, buyers from certain ethnic groups were notorious for it. Say asking price £300k. Usually went like this:

1. Mr Singh comes in all guns blazing offering £310k- accepted. Cash buyer of course.
2. House is off the market
3. Mr & Mrs Smith are delighted and they start making onward plans on their purchase
4. Then Mr Singh goes very quiet and off the radar for several weeks and possibly months and just sits on it

Then the excuses start piling up

- The bank's valuer turns up at the door:-"Oh my cash family gift fell through so I had to get a mortgage
- Mr Singh has just vanished but then magically reappears: "Oh I had to go back to India/Pakistan as grandmother died." You would not believe how many grandmothers die during the course of a transaction
- Then they will lead everyone along until the last possible moment then BANG...."Oh there is some I]insert random BS excuse[/I wrong with the property. I will not proceed unless I get £20k off the price.

Mr & Mrs Smith are at their wits end and backed into a corner. Removals booked etc etc. They agree as Mr Singh is threatening to bring down the whole chain. Mr Singh is delighted.

Oh and Mr Singh will play this game with possibly 3-4 different properties at the same time until he gets the deal he is happy with. He never had any intention of paying £310k and he will simply walk away from the others and leave them dangling.

It is so bad I knew sellers that point blank refused to entertain offers from the likes of Mr Singh no matter what they offered. In fact I know a seller that went with a lower offer purely beacuse they just did not trust the offer way over the asking price- usually a red flag. The UK market is more complex than the Irish market.

MrMusician18

Dav010 wrote: »

I think you’d be a bit sore if you reopened negotiations and the price went up.

Prices don't actually need to fall to get a discount in this scenario. If, just prior to close, the buyer demands some relative small discount on even the most trivial of defects they are likely to receive it. This is because the seller is to far down the road and has mentally moved on from the property.

As long as the threatened discount isn't too large as to complete piss off the vendor (1-2%) they are likely to cave. If everyone was acting in such bad faith it would likely break the market though, because a seller could easily act in the same manner.

fliball123

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Prices don't actually need to fall to get a discount in this scenario. If, just prior to close, the buyer demands some relative small discount on even the most trivial of defects they are likely to receive it. This is because the seller is to far down the road and has mentally moved on from the property.

As long as the threatened discount isn't too large as to complete piss off the vendor (1-2%) they are likely to cave. If everyone was acting in such bad faith it would likely break the market though, because a seller could easily act in the same manner.

Well the flip side is if the seller says no then the buyer will either have to fork out the agreed price or the seller might just pull it and the buyer will still have solicitor fees to pay so remember the buyer is also down the road to buying so its a game of bluff on both sides. You would feel pretty silly having to pay solicitor fees and having nothing to show for it.

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

That 'tactic' works better in a buyers' market. It was rampant here in the UK about 8-10 years ago. In fact, buyers from certain ethnic groups were notorious for it. Say asking price £300k. Usually went like this:

1. Mr Singh comes in all guns blazing offering £310k- accepted. Cash buyer of course.
2. House is off the market
3. Mr & Mrs Smith are delighted and they start making onward plans on their purchase
4. Then Mr Singh goes very quiet and off the radar for several weeks and possibly months and just sits on it

Then the excuses start piling up

- The bank's valuer turns up at the door:-"Oh my cash family gift fell through so I had to get a mortgage
- Mr Singh has just vanished but then magically reappears: "Oh I had to go back to India/Pakistan as grandmother died." You would not believe how many grandmothers die during the course of a transaction
- Then they will lead everyone along until the last possible moment then BANG...."Oh there is some I]insert random BS excuse[/I wrong with the property. I will not proceed unless I get £20k off the price.

Mr & Mrs Smith are at their wits end and backed into a corner. Removals booked etc etc. They agree as Mr Singh is threatening to bring down the whole chain. Mr Singh is delighted.

Oh and Mr Singh will play this game with possibly 3-4 different properties at the same time until he gets the deal he is happy with. He never had any intention of paying £310k and he will simply walk away from the others and leave them dangling.

It is so bad I knew sellers that point blank refused to entertain offers from the likes of Mr Singh no matter what they offered. In fact I know a seller that went with a lower offer purely beacuse they just did not trust the offer way over the asking price- usually a red flag. The UK market is more complex than the Irish market.

Wow.
So just the likes of Mr Singh then......

fliball123

slipperyox wrote: »

Well. The denial is certainly here.
But very soon, Mary O'Gara working at home is gonna be replaced by Mary Singh in Bangalore,
The states debt, is gone through the roof.

The covid deaths will release new properties soon after probates,

just my take.

If I was buying now, I'd be buying end of this year next year.

Debt has gone up by 20billion (30Billion projected by the end of the year) at 0% and offset at having the existing 210billion reworked at a lower interest rate
Even with covid deaths our new borns have outpaced deaths in each of the last 100 years. So good luck at the end of the year if your basing them on facts that are not a full snapshot of whats happening

partyguinness

bubblypop wrote: »

Wow.
So just the likes of Mr Singh then......

99.9% of the time....yes.

The 0.10% is just tokenism. I cannot in all my years recall similar tactics by say Mr & Mrs Smith. I am talking thousands of transactions.

partyguinness

slipperyox wrote: »

Well. The denial is certainly here.
But very soon, Mary O'Gara working at home is gonna be replaced by Mary Singh in Bangalore,
The states debt, is gone through the roof.

The covid deaths will release new properties soon after probates,

just my take.

If I was buying now, I'd be buying end of this year next year.

Just a point of order.

Singh is male. The female equivalent is Kaur. So it would be Mary Kaur or John Singh (well, John and Mary would be highly unusual names for Sikhs)

You're welcome.

fenris

Last house I sold we had a couple of very similar offers just over asking price, we went with the people that who had not tried to lowball in the earlier stages as we felt that they would try and pull some other messing just before closing to claw back to their lowball position, that would have set us back a few weeks but back on the market and getting at least the asking price would have not been a problem, you get a fair few nice takeaways for €30k!
What the bidder was like to deal with was a key question that I had for the EA, grand definitely beats niggly shouting about a lowball cash offer. Dealing with someone realistic is easier and smoother.

The sale isn't always just about the price, it is one of the main items to get you into the conversation, then you need to make it easy for someone to accept your offer compared to your competitor who is probably offering the same price.

slipperyox

partyguinness wrote: »

Just a point of order.

Singh is male. The female equivalent is Kaur. So it would be Mary Kaur or John Singh (well, John and Mary would be highly unusual names for Sikhs)

You're welcome.

I know several people male and female with a surname "Singh"

And Kaur.
In fact, both very popular surnames in the UK.

You should have read the whole wiki stub:P

partyguinness

slipperyox wrote: »

I know several people male and female with a surname "Singh"

And Kaur.
In fact, both very popular surnames in the UK.

You should have read the whole wiki stub:P

Well knock me down with a feather. In all my years here I have never ever met or heard of a Mrs Singh. I don't need Wikipedia.....in fact give me a sec and I'll change it.

Yeah I live and work in UK with probably 80-90% of my daily work interactions are with Asians. I have met hundreds of Mr Singhs and Mrs Kaurs. In fact it is a bit annoying as they tend to ring up and say "It's Mrs Kaur". That's like Mrs Murphy in Cork- it could be anyone of 20 different women. I will pull them up on it as they know full well that I will have many Mrs Kaur's on my table.

maestroamado

Dav010 wrote: »

I can certainly see how what you are saying benefits the buyer, a certain price is reached = property sells, but how does this benefit the seller if the property sells at a predetermined price point that may not reflect the highest price a buyer is willing to pay? In effect, the seller could be losing thousands, even tens of thousands by not letting the bidding process run its course.

That is either very generous, or bonkers.

In relation to gazumping, isn’t that where a sale is agreed, then another higher bid is made by another bidder and accepted by the seller? That has nothing to do with guide prices, and you must also consider that some bidders do pull out of agreed sales to buy other properties. So reneging on sale agreed is not particular to one side or the other.

What i am saying is the professional way to do business but for me it up to EA and seller to state selling price.
It seems the view here the EA has just to get as much as he cah for seller and fcuk the standards of the profession they are in, that just my opionion and i can see i am very much in minoroty here.
I know of one Country where when sale agreed, 10% deposit is paid and there on contract + a 20% legal bond against the property.
If say the property sold 100k the buyer forfeits 10k, if the seller pulls out they lose 20% of the future sale value.
Now to be fair i never heard of it working in practice but that is the rules or thats what i was told they i do know of one person who lost the 10% and a few who lost booking deposit which not significant.
I think our EAs are self regulated which is great?
And i said i was finished with bthis

maestroamado

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Ten years ago the country was in the toilet and houses were being repossessed.

Vultures were picking them up with a few lucky first time buyers included.

I was unlucky enouhh to have bought just before that time so most of my dealings were just before this time.
Now i am interested in doing something and find the rules have changed.
I will live with it but when i seen this post needed to say what i have seen.
It seems i am out of touch with current STANDARDS...

maestroamado

maestroamado wrote: »

What i am saying is the professional way to do business but for me it up to EA and seller to state selling price.
It seems the view here the EA has just to get as much as he cah for seller and fcuk the standards of the profession they are in, that just my opionion and i can see i am very much in minoroty here.
I know of one Country where when sale agreed, 10% deposit is paid and there on contract + a 20% legal bond against the property.
If say the property sold 100k the buyer forfeits 10k, if the seller pulls out they lose 20% of the future sale value.
Now to be fair i never heard of it working in practice but that is the rules or thats what i was told they i do know of one person who lost the 10% and a few who lost booking deposit which not significant.
I think our EAs are self regulated which is great?
And i said i was finished with bthis

I think it is important for you to understand that the EA works for, and is paid by the seller to get as much as possible for the property being sold.

I would suspect more sales fail to complete due to buyers pulling out than sellers, so any legislation that penalises either party for pulling out prior to contracts being signed would potentially hurt buyers more than sellers.

To me, your criticisms just don’t make any sense. EAs can advise a vendor on advertised selling price, but ultimately it’s the vendor who calls the shots. And limiting a sale to a guesstimated price point before prospective buyers have a chance to bid is counterproductive to the vendor, it could mean selling for tens of thousands below what a buyer is willing to pay. Why would this possibly appeal to a vendor?

I’m pretty sure that a booking deposit is fully refundable as contracts cannot be enforced until signed.

maestroamado

Dav010 wrote: »

I think it is important for you to understand that the EA works for, and is paid by the seller to get as much as possible for the property being sold.

I would suspect more sales fail to complete due to buyers pulling out than sellers, so any legislation that penalises either party for pulling out prior to contracts being signed would potentially hurt buyers more than sellers.

To me, your criticisms just don’t make any sense. EAs can advise a vendor on advertised selling price, but ultimately it’s the vendor who calls the shots. And limiting a sale to a guesstimated price point before prospective buyers have a chance to bid is counterproductive to the vendor, it could mean selling for tens of thousands below what a buyer is willing to pay. Why would this possibly appeal to a vendor?

You just dont get it there is no PROFESSIONAL STANDARD here???
THE END...

j14

So...... Did OP buy the house yet?

riclad

Its simple, a house go,s on sale , may be theres a few offer,s ,
maybe theres a few bidders,
someone puts in a bid, if its close to or above the asking price the bidder
will probably accept it.
the website puts up a notice ,house x, sale agreed,
After that theres no bidding accepted.
it usually works , after a certain time ,the buyer and seller bought sign the contract.
the final bidder may be asked to put down a deposit.
I do,nt think gazzumping is a big problem at the moment.
this is not 2006 when banks were throwing mortgages at anyone who
was over 21 and worked in a chip shop.
i understand a vendor might want to wait a week or 2 if a house go,s on sale
to see what bids come in.
one reason more people might want to buy a house now,
is more people are working at home,
buying makes sense versus paying expensive rent to live in an apartment,
which may be small ,
a house with fast internet acess and an extra room to be used as an home office
is an attractive asset .

FromADistance

maestroamado wrote: »

What i am saying is the professional way to do business but for me it up to EA and seller to state selling price.
It seems the view here the EA has just to get as much as he cah for seller and fcuk the standards of the profession they are in, that just my opionion and i can see i am very much in minoroty here.
I know of one Country where when sale agreed, 10% deposit is paid and there on contract + a 20% legal bond against the property.
If say the property sold 100k the buyer forfeits 10k, if the seller pulls out they lose 20% of the future sale value.
Now to be fair i never heard of it working in practice but that is the rules or thats what i was told they i do know of one person who lost the 10% and a few who lost booking deposit which not significant.
I think our EAs are self regulated which is great?
And i said i was finished with bthis

What if 2 or more people offer the 'selling' price? Who does the Vendor or Estate Agent pick given neither owe anything to either person?

I'm all for more transparency in the housing market when it comes to bidding on property but to be honest, your view is slightly baffling. Basically you're happy enough to offer below the 'selling' price but you've a problem with people bidding up a property price over a 'perceived' selling price. You're not buying a packet of cornflakes, the market decides and at the moment it's a sellers market. A property is worth what someone is willing to pay and if that 'someone' wants to overpay that's their problem, not the vendor.

If you want to buy property where your know the selling price, I'd stick to new builds but be prepared to 'wait in line'.

fliball123

FromADistance wrote: »

What if 2 or more people offer the 'selling' price? Who does the Vendor or Estate Agent pick given neither owe anything to either person?

I'm all for more transparency in the housing market when it comes to bidding on property but to be honest, your view is slightly baffling. Basically you're happy enough to offer below the 'selling' price but you've a problem with people bidding up a property price over a 'perceived' selling price. You're not buying a packet of cornflakes, the market decides and at the moment it's a sellers market. A property is worth what someone is willing to pay and if that 'someone' wants to overpay that's their problem, not the vendor.

If you want to buy property where your know the selling price, I'd stick to new builds but be prepared to 'wait in line'.

and pay more

riclad

Lets say 2 bidders offer same amount, the agent informs the seller,
seller may opt to go with one who has no chain, first time buyer, or one who is buying with mostly cash.
if you are in a hurry to buy, offer 20k above the advertised price.
buying a house is not like buying a car, in most area,s theres no sites left to build house,s , unless you buy a new house, 300k plus, you cant be sure
how much it will cost.
No one is building houses in rathmines or dublin 2.

FromADistance

fliball123 wrote: »

and pay more

What's your point???

fliball123

FromADistance wrote: »

What's your point???

It was directed to the poster you responded to about waiting or going for a new build, new builds tend to be more expensive than 2nd hand builds

FromADistance

fliball123 wrote: »

It was directed to the poster you responded to about waiting or going for a new build, new builds tend to be more expensive than 2nd hand builds

And so what? Completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

vinnie_cork

iColdFusion wrote: »

Its always worth trying to find out how much the seller paid for the property in the first place via the property price register or some google research, with those apts you could have the most expensive one being sold by someone who overpaid during boom times and the cheapest one bought up cheap by someone with cash in the bank during the recession, different sellers looking for different returns.

Not the case. The house I bought in 2019 I’ve to pump more into it that the sale price. If I sold in 4 yrs time and someone used this logic of looking what I bought it for then they’d get a very wrongly skewed idea.

Diemos

We bought our place in a similar situation.
Owner where is no rush but we had no competing bidders.
So we paid asking.
That was 4 years ago, since then other houses have sold quickly for more than we paid, (5 to 15 %).

The first replay answered your question, if you think the price is fair then pay up.
If you think the price is too high or you don't have the funds to reach the required amount, then walk.

Gael23

We’re going to wait until in person viewings are allowed and take it from there.

Gael23

Gael23 wrote: »

We’re going to wait until in person viewings are allowed and take it from there.

Wait, you haven't even seen the property yet??

Gael23

bubblypop wrote: »

Wait, you haven't even seen the property yet??

No we’re not allowed but there’s a virtual tour online which is pretty good and we know the area very well

1874

pc7 wrote: »

You could say here is my offer, I will leave it on the table for two weeks and then I'm going elsewhere. But ideally if its what you want and they aren't in a chain then you need to decide if its worth it to you or not. If it is then offer the asking price. How does it compare to similar in the area? How far apart are you on what you feel its worth and what they want?

But if a seller isnt in a hurry, they can wait a person making that ultimatum out for the two weeks, you can only do so if you really plan to walk after the set time.

GreeBo wrote: »

start looking at other properties from the same agent.

This is probably a good idea, makes them know you have lost or are appear to have lost interest from not getting anywhere with the seller, not necessarily the Agents fault but they may make a sale elsewhere.

Dubhurler4 wrote: »

Buying and selling really is a waiting game. If you’re buying and not prepared to go to asking, then you have to be prepared to sit it out. At least by having an offer on the table, you’ll be kept informed of any other offers and something else might come along in the meantime,
Waiting is hard when you’re buying. You have to put the emotion and excitement to one side and try remain calm. We missed out on a house because buyer was holding for asking. We since decided against the house and found out that it was sold for what we had offered. Sellers need a bit of time to move below asking.
It also depends on auctioneers strategy - some will guide low to attract interest, others seem to guide high with the aim of getting close to asking.

This is what Im wondering, looked at a house, could afford to offer but didnt think it was worth the asking,didnt want to lowball as it was pointless, could have messed about but why bother, might not look like serious buyers and the agent could have other places for sale and of interest. Noticed the property dropped 100k in price, can only suspect to generate interest, meaning there must have been none, now the price is much lower than I think it is worth, told an offer was already on for less than that price by a good bit, so I just offered 1k above the claimed offer only to be told immediately that the price was already at the new sale price, offered 1k over that and have heard nothing since, just waiting now to see if/when they call back.
My understanding is they have to tell you when there is another offer (obligated by the PSRA rules), well according to the agent I am selling with.
I also had similar with another agent before Xmas, now while they didnt drop the price, they told me what they claimed was the highest offer on that place, I made a bid above that, only to be told the previous bid was withdrawn, which seems suspicious to me.



Im not sure on either, but Ive been told by my own agent that according t PSRA rules, I have to be informed of any new offers. That leads me to believe that there is no interest on either property, even though I just walked from the initial one more due to no feedback from the agent, not even to say, look they wont take less than X.
It looks to me, that moving up to a more expensive house where someone may be downgrading, or is under no time pressure, they can potentially hold out for an amount of time that isn't beneficial to a buyer. On my end, I'm upgrading, and I consider there are more people at my end of the market to compete for my property. I'd have thought it's worse being at the end of the market getting less offers and being more limited by that, as ultimately if they are selling they must want to sell/go, and the agent must want to move the property to get a fee and to not have it sitting idle on their hands where it may end up getting removed by the seller.


In my opinion, both examples I experienced recently were over priced, one didnt drop price but stated the only offer is much lower, and then nothing heard back,so moved on assuming they aren't accepting but giving no information as to what they will take.

the other,
dropped the price by a huge amount, and yet there are still no other bids apparently, and nothing heard back
So Im assuming they are both holding out and can do so,

Victor wrote: »

1. Is there anything that is excluded from the sale that might encourage you to bid more if it was included, e.g. appliances, fitted kitchen, furniture, soft furnishings?
2. After a few few weeks of silence, have a friend bid €290,000.

Auctioneers are looking for proof of loan approval, you can get a letter from the lender stating the property can be afforded, so as not to tip your hand, thats what I did, so not sure getting a friend to make an offer is viable or wont be thought of as potentially being a ruse if they also dont have a loan offer to confirm in some way.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The OP is going up against the worst possible seller, one who had an the time in the world to wait until prices and demand rise up to match what is worth to them. In their position I wouldn't be turning down the possibility of an extra 30k for free when I don't have any pressure to sell.
As for starting under by 10%, well the OP got the right answer, and no property.
Short of the op doing a Tadgh McCabe on the widow, they'll be in no hurry to sell under.

My concern with someone like that selling is they could gazump a buyer, ifthey are already in the frame of mind of doing do, it'd be be prepared to walk away in the event there is a real offer or possibly play hardball in return.

partyguinness wrote: »

Gazumping goes further than that. The original offer is accepted and the process proceeds as normal until just before the legal exhange of contracts a new buyer emerges with a better offer and the seller jumps across to them instead thus leaving the original 'buyer' with 2-3 months of wasted time and costs and very pissed off (mortgage offer and legals all well advanced).

Unfortunately until legal exchange the seller (and buyer) is free to do what they want.

By the same token, the buyer can walk away at any point.

In Scotland they have cut this out so that once accepted and deposit paid that is it.

I understand the bids are sealed? but imo it makes sense, if the seller is happy with an offer that they should be as bound by it as the buyer to proceed, rather than take some most likely small margin extra, where there wont be much in it for the agent anyway.

riclad

its a sellers market, theres very few house,s on the market.
i look on daft.ie , myhome.ie every 6 months .
compared with 2020, theres very few house,s for sale.
Offer the price its, advertised at or just move on.
many people would prefer to buy an old house versus an apartment thats 2 years old .
There was a thread on this forum, about apartments in the ifsc area,
theres very little sound insulation , you can hear your neighbour talking.
in an apartment you have neighbours above you ,to the right left, etc
in the present market, trying to save 20k on a house bid is probably pointless .
As far as i know theres no house,s being built close to the city centre.