Seller unwilling to negotiate

partyguinness

slipperyox wrote: »

I know several people male and female with a surname "Singh"

And Kaur.
In fact, both very popular surnames in the UK.

You should have read the whole wiki stub:P

Well knock me down with a feather. In all my years here I have never ever met or heard of a Mrs Singh. I don't need Wikipedia.....in fact give me a sec and I'll change it.

Yeah I live and work in UK with probably 80-90% of my daily work interactions are with Asians. I have met hundreds of Mr Singhs and Mrs Kaurs. In fact it is a bit annoying as they tend to ring up and say "It's Mrs Kaur". That's like Mrs Murphy in Cork- it could be anyone of 20 different women. I will pull them up on it as they know full well that I will have many Mrs Kaur's on my table.

maestroamado

Dav010 wrote: »

I can certainly see how what you are saying benefits the buyer, a certain price is reached = property sells, but how does this benefit the seller if the property sells at a predetermined price point that may not reflect the highest price a buyer is willing to pay? In effect, the seller could be losing thousands, even tens of thousands by not letting the bidding process run its course.

That is either very generous, or bonkers.

In relation to gazumping, isn’t that where a sale is agreed, then another higher bid is made by another bidder and accepted by the seller? That has nothing to do with guide prices, and you must also consider that some bidders do pull out of agreed sales to buy other properties. So reneging on sale agreed is not particular to one side or the other.

What i am saying is the professional way to do business but for me it up to EA and seller to state selling price.
It seems the view here the EA has just to get as much as he cah for seller and fcuk the standards of the profession they are in, that just my opionion and i can see i am very much in minoroty here.
I know of one Country where when sale agreed, 10% deposit is paid and there on contract + a 20% legal bond against the property.
If say the property sold 100k the buyer forfeits 10k, if the seller pulls out they lose 20% of the future sale value.
Now to be fair i never heard of it working in practice but that is the rules or thats what i was told they i do know of one person who lost the 10% and a few who lost booking deposit which not significant.
I think our EAs are self regulated which is great?
And i said i was finished with bthis

maestroamado

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Ten years ago the country was in the toilet and houses were being repossessed.

Vultures were picking them up with a few lucky first time buyers included.

I was unlucky enouhh to have bought just before that time so most of my dealings were just before this time.
Now i am interested in doing something and find the rules have changed.
I will live with it but when i seen this post needed to say what i have seen.
It seems i am out of touch with current STANDARDS...

Dav010

maestroamado wrote: »

What i am saying is the professional way to do business but for me it up to EA and seller to state selling price.
It seems the view here the EA has just to get as much as he cah for seller and fcuk the standards of the profession they are in, that just my opionion and i can see i am very much in minoroty here.
I know of one Country where when sale agreed, 10% deposit is paid and there on contract + a 20% legal bond against the property.
If say the property sold 100k the buyer forfeits 10k, if the seller pulls out they lose 20% of the future sale value.
Now to be fair i never heard of it working in practice but that is the rules or thats what i was told they i do know of one person who lost the 10% and a few who lost booking deposit which not significant.
I think our EAs are self regulated which is great?
And i said i was finished with bthis

I think it is important for you to understand that the EA works for, and is paid by the seller to get as much as possible for the property being sold.

I would suspect more sales fail to complete due to buyers pulling out than sellers, so any legislation that penalises either party for pulling out prior to contracts being signed would potentially hurt buyers more than sellers.

To me, your criticisms just don’t make any sense. EAs can advise a vendor on advertised selling price, but ultimately it’s the vendor who calls the shots. And limiting a sale to a guesstimated price point before prospective buyers have a chance to bid is counterproductive to the vendor, it could mean selling for tens of thousands below what a buyer is willing to pay. Why would this possibly appeal to a vendor?

I’m pretty sure that a booking deposit is fully refundable as contracts cannot be enforced until signed.

maestroamado

Dav010 wrote: »

I think it is important for you to understand that the EA works for, and is paid by the seller to get as much as possible for the property being sold.

I would suspect more sales fail to complete due to buyers pulling out than sellers, so any legislation that penalises either party for pulling out prior to contracts being signed would potentially hurt buyers more than sellers.

To me, your criticisms just don’t make any sense. EAs can advise a vendor on advertised selling price, but ultimately it’s the vendor who calls the shots. And limiting a sale to a guesstimated price point before prospective buyers have a chance to bid is counterproductive to the vendor, it could mean selling for tens of thousands below what a buyer is willing to pay. Why would this possibly appeal to a vendor?

You just dont get it there is no PROFESSIONAL STANDARD here???
THE END...

j14

So...... Did OP buy the house yet?

riclad

Its simple, a house go,s on sale , may be theres a few offer,s ,
maybe theres a few bidders,
someone puts in a bid, if its close to or above the asking price the bidder
will probably accept it.
the website puts up a notice ,house x, sale agreed,
After that theres no bidding accepted.
it usually works , after a certain time ,the buyer and seller bought sign the contract.
the final bidder may be asked to put down a deposit.
I do,nt think gazzumping is a big problem at the moment.
this is not 2006 when banks were throwing mortgages at anyone who
was over 21 and worked in a chip shop.
i understand a vendor might want to wait a week or 2 if a house go,s on sale
to see what bids come in.
one reason more people might want to buy a house now,
is more people are working at home,
buying makes sense versus paying expensive rent to live in an apartment,
which may be small ,
a house with fast internet acess and an extra room to be used as an home office
is an attractive asset .

FromADistance

maestroamado wrote: »

What i am saying is the professional way to do business but for me it up to EA and seller to state selling price.
It seems the view here the EA has just to get as much as he cah for seller and fcuk the standards of the profession they are in, that just my opionion and i can see i am very much in minoroty here.
I know of one Country where when sale agreed, 10% deposit is paid and there on contract + a 20% legal bond against the property.
If say the property sold 100k the buyer forfeits 10k, if the seller pulls out they lose 20% of the future sale value.
Now to be fair i never heard of it working in practice but that is the rules or thats what i was told they i do know of one person who lost the 10% and a few who lost booking deposit which not significant.
I think our EAs are self regulated which is great?
And i said i was finished with bthis

What if 2 or more people offer the 'selling' price? Who does the Vendor or Estate Agent pick given neither owe anything to either person?

I'm all for more transparency in the housing market when it comes to bidding on property but to be honest, your view is slightly baffling. Basically you're happy enough to offer below the 'selling' price but you've a problem with people bidding up a property price over a 'perceived' selling price. You're not buying a packet of cornflakes, the market decides and at the moment it's a sellers market. A property is worth what someone is willing to pay and if that 'someone' wants to overpay that's their problem, not the vendor.

If you want to buy property where your know the selling price, I'd stick to new builds but be prepared to 'wait in line'.

fliball123

FromADistance wrote: »

What if 2 or more people offer the 'selling' price? Who does the Vendor or Estate Agent pick given neither owe anything to either person?

I'm all for more transparency in the housing market when it comes to bidding on property but to be honest, your view is slightly baffling. Basically you're happy enough to offer below the 'selling' price but you've a problem with people bidding up a property price over a 'perceived' selling price. You're not buying a packet of cornflakes, the market decides and at the moment it's a sellers market. A property is worth what someone is willing to pay and if that 'someone' wants to overpay that's their problem, not the vendor.

If you want to buy property where your know the selling price, I'd stick to new builds but be prepared to 'wait in line'.

and pay more

riclad

Lets say 2 bidders offer same amount, the agent informs the seller,
seller may opt to go with one who has no chain, first time buyer, or one who is buying with mostly cash.
if you are in a hurry to buy, offer 20k above the advertised price.
buying a house is not like buying a car, in most area,s theres no sites left to build house,s , unless you buy a new house, 300k plus, you cant be sure
how much it will cost.
No one is building houses in rathmines or dublin 2.

FromADistance

fliball123 wrote: »

and pay more

What's your point???

fliball123

FromADistance wrote: »

What's your point???

It was directed to the poster you responded to about waiting or going for a new build, new builds tend to be more expensive than 2nd hand builds

FromADistance

fliball123 wrote: »

It was directed to the poster you responded to about waiting or going for a new build, new builds tend to be more expensive than 2nd hand builds

And so what? Completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

vinnie_cork

iColdFusion wrote: »

Its always worth trying to find out how much the seller paid for the property in the first place via the property price register or some google research, with those apts you could have the most expensive one being sold by someone who overpaid during boom times and the cheapest one bought up cheap by someone with cash in the bank during the recession, different sellers looking for different returns.

Not the case. The house I bought in 2019 I’ve to pump more into it that the sale price. If I sold in 4 yrs time and someone used this logic of looking what I bought it for then they’d get a very wrongly skewed idea.

Diemos

We bought our place in a similar situation.
Owner where is no rush but we had no competing bidders.
So we paid asking.
That was 4 years ago, since then other houses have sold quickly for more than we paid, (5 to 15 %).

The first replay answered your question, if you think the price is fair then pay up.
If you think the price is too high or you don't have the funds to reach the required amount, then walk.

Gael23

We’re going to wait until in person viewings are allowed and take it from there.

Gael23

Gael23 wrote: »

We’re going to wait until in person viewings are allowed and take it from there.

Wait, you haven't even seen the property yet??

Gael23

bubblypop wrote: »

Wait, you haven't even seen the property yet??

No we’re not allowed but there’s a virtual tour online which is pretty good and we know the area very well

1874

pc7 wrote: »

You could say here is my offer, I will leave it on the table for two weeks and then I'm going elsewhere. But ideally if its what you want and they aren't in a chain then you need to decide if its worth it to you or not. If it is then offer the asking price. How does it compare to similar in the area? How far apart are you on what you feel its worth and what they want?

But if a seller isnt in a hurry, they can wait a person making that ultimatum out for the two weeks, you can only do so if you really plan to walk after the set time.

GreeBo wrote: »

start looking at other properties from the same agent.

This is probably a good idea, makes them know you have lost or are appear to have lost interest from not getting anywhere with the seller, not necessarily the Agents fault but they may make a sale elsewhere.

Dubhurler4 wrote: »

Buying and selling really is a waiting game. If you’re buying and not prepared to go to asking, then you have to be prepared to sit it out. At least by having an offer on the table, you’ll be kept informed of any other offers and something else might come along in the meantime,
Waiting is hard when you’re buying. You have to put the emotion and excitement to one side and try remain calm. We missed out on a house because buyer was holding for asking. We since decided against the house and found out that it was sold for what we had offered. Sellers need a bit of time to move below asking.
It also depends on auctioneers strategy - some will guide low to attract interest, others seem to guide high with the aim of getting close to asking.

This is what Im wondering, looked at a house, could afford to offer but didnt think it was worth the asking,didnt want to lowball as it was pointless, could have messed about but why bother, might not look like serious buyers and the agent could have other places for sale and of interest. Noticed the property dropped 100k in price, can only suspect to generate interest, meaning there must have been none, now the price is much lower than I think it is worth, told an offer was already on for less than that price by a good bit, so I just offered 1k above the claimed offer only to be told immediately that the price was already at the new sale price, offered 1k over that and have heard nothing since, just waiting now to see if/when they call back.
My understanding is they have to tell you when there is another offer (obligated by the PSRA rules), well according to the agent I am selling with.
I also had similar with another agent before Xmas, now while they didnt drop the price, they told me what they claimed was the highest offer on that place, I made a bid above that, only to be told the previous bid was withdrawn, which seems suspicious to me.



Im not sure on either, but Ive been told by my own agent that according t PSRA rules, I have to be informed of any new offers. That leads me to believe that there is no interest on either property, even though I just walked from the initial one more due to no feedback from the agent, not even to say, look they wont take less than X.
It looks to me, that moving up to a more expensive house where someone may be downgrading, or is under no time pressure, they can potentially hold out for an amount of time that isn't beneficial to a buyer. On my end, I'm upgrading, and I consider there are more people at my end of the market to compete for my property. I'd have thought it's worse being at the end of the market getting less offers and being more limited by that, as ultimately if they are selling they must want to sell/go, and the agent must want to move the property to get a fee and to not have it sitting idle on their hands where it may end up getting removed by the seller.


In my opinion, both examples I experienced recently were over priced, one didnt drop price but stated the only offer is much lower, and then nothing heard back,so moved on assuming they aren't accepting but giving no information as to what they will take.

the other,
dropped the price by a huge amount, and yet there are still no other bids apparently, and nothing heard back
So Im assuming they are both holding out and can do so,

Victor wrote: »

1. Is there anything that is excluded from the sale that might encourage you to bid more if it was included, e.g. appliances, fitted kitchen, furniture, soft furnishings?
2. After a few few weeks of silence, have a friend bid €290,000.

Auctioneers are looking for proof of loan approval, you can get a letter from the lender stating the property can be afforded, so as not to tip your hand, thats what I did, so not sure getting a friend to make an offer is viable or wont be thought of as potentially being a ruse if they also dont have a loan offer to confirm in some way.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The OP is going up against the worst possible seller, one who had an the time in the world to wait until prices and demand rise up to match what is worth to them. In their position I wouldn't be turning down the possibility of an extra 30k for free when I don't have any pressure to sell.
As for starting under by 10%, well the OP got the right answer, and no property.
Short of the op doing a Tadgh McCabe on the widow, they'll be in no hurry to sell under.

My concern with someone like that selling is they could gazump a buyer, ifthey are already in the frame of mind of doing do, it'd be be prepared to walk away in the event there is a real offer or possibly play hardball in return.

partyguinness wrote: »

Gazumping goes further than that. The original offer is accepted and the process proceeds as normal until just before the legal exhange of contracts a new buyer emerges with a better offer and the seller jumps across to them instead thus leaving the original 'buyer' with 2-3 months of wasted time and costs and very pissed off (mortgage offer and legals all well advanced).

Unfortunately until legal exchange the seller (and buyer) is free to do what they want.

By the same token, the buyer can walk away at any point.

In Scotland they have cut this out so that once accepted and deposit paid that is it.

I understand the bids are sealed? but imo it makes sense, if the seller is happy with an offer that they should be as bound by it as the buyer to proceed, rather than take some most likely small margin extra, where there wont be much in it for the agent anyway.

riclad

its a sellers market, theres very few house,s on the market.
i look on daft.ie , myhome.ie every 6 months .
compared with 2020, theres very few house,s for sale.
Offer the price its, advertised at or just move on.
many people would prefer to buy an old house versus an apartment thats 2 years old .
There was a thread on this forum, about apartments in the ifsc area,
theres very little sound insulation , you can hear your neighbour talking.
in an apartment you have neighbours above you ,to the right left, etc
in the present market, trying to save 20k on a house bid is probably pointless .
As far as i know theres no house,s being built close to the city centre.

1874

riclad wrote: »

its a sellers market, theres very few house,s on the market.
i look on daft.ie , myhome.ie every 6 months .
compared with 2020, theres very few house,s for sale.
Offer the price its, advertised at or just move on.
many people would prefer to buy an old house versus an apartment thats 2 years old .
There was a thread on this forum, about apartments in the ifsc area,
theres very little sound insulation , you can hear your neighbour talking.
in an apartment you have neighbours above you ,to the right left, etc
in the present market, trying to save 20k on a house bid is probably pointless .
As far as i know theres no house,s being built close to the city centre.

Any ideas on how to respond or deal with a seller where the examples are the ones I've shown?
In both instances no feedback,

First property I bidded on pre Xmas, I think it was at the least slightly overpriced for a few reasons, but was told there was a bid way under the asking, then I made a slightly higher bid and was told the other bidder backed out, now Im the only bidder, so it seemed like a ploy all along to get someone to be the first official bidder, which I suspected myself.



I havent heard anything back but have been told by my agent that if anyone bids PSRA rules state I have to be informed. I think the agent is waiting on me or someone to contact them, the seller must be in no hurry and have a set minimum value in mind. This makes it seem to sit on the agents books for no fee.



Second property, Was a higher price, but I thought way over priced, I didnt even bid then, just disregarded it, noticed it dropped by 100k, and I made an enquiry again, they told me there was a bid on less than the new asking price, when I went to bid they said it was back to the "New" asking price so I bid slightly above that, have not heard a thing since.


In both cases it seems to me they are trying to generate interest by even considering lower offers in the first case and reducing the price in the other. It seems there is no interest and the properties could be at a cost that will have less people available to buy, my own is lower price and I consider Im moving up, but I think I'm more likely to have more buyers available at my property's value.


Not sure where or how to proceed
One option is I approach the agent and ask directly, what are the buyers aiming for, failing any answer which gives some clarity, not say I'm out or my offer is for 2 weeks, just tell them I'd like to view another property on their books. If they ask, I could just tell them I'm getting no call back or feedback and maybe even that I dont intend to bid against myself, otherwise they'd be able to tell me there are bids in.

Do agents have to inform existing bidders of new bids according to PSRA rules? The agent selling my house says so.

knucklehead6

1874 wrote: »

Any ideas on how to respond or deal with a seller where the examples are the ones I've shown?
In both instances no feedback,

First property I bidded on pre Xmas, I think it was at the least slightly overpriced for a few reasons, but was told there was a bid way under the asking, then I made a slightly higher bid and was told the other bidder backed out, now Im the only bidder, so it seemed like a ploy all along to get someone to be the first official bidder, which I suspected myself.



I havent heard anything back but have been told by my agent that if anyone bids PSRA rules state I have to be informed. I think the agent is waiting on me or someone to contact them, the seller must be in no hurry and have a set minimum value in mind. This makes it seem to sit on the agents books for no fee.



Second property, Was a higher price, but I thought way over priced, I didnt even bid then, just disregarded it, noticed it dropped by 100k, and I made an enquiry again, they told me there was a bid on less than the new asking price, when I went to bid they said it was back to the "New" asking price so I bid slightly above that, have not heard a thing since.


In both cases it seems to me they are trying to generate interest by even considering lower offers in the first case and reducing the price in the other. It seems there is no interest and the properties could be at a cost that will have less people available to buy, my own is lower price and I consider Im moving up, but I think I'm more likely to have more buyers available at my property's value.


Not sure where or how to proceed
One option is I approach the agent and ask directly, what are the buyers aiming for, failing any answer which gives some clarity, not say I'm out or my offer is for 2 weeks, just tell them I'd like to view another property on their books. If they ask, I could just tell them I'm getting no call back or feedback and maybe even that I dont intend to bid against myself, otherwise they'd be able to tell me there are bids in.

Do agents have to inform existing bidders of new bids according to PSRA rules? The agent selling my house says so.

I suppose you could contact the agent to see if your bids have been accepted or surpassed. Then it’s up to you what to do next

As I’ve said I bought a number of years ago during the recession but I watched ‘my’ house for over a year and saw it drop by over 120k before I went bidding.


Sorry, edited to mention that the point I’m making is that prices CAN drop, but I’d be surprised if they’re dropping by that much at the moment.

jetfiremuck

Its 30 k over 20 years ffs .The property market is tight now and will be for the forseable future. If it was me Id buy and move on. interst rates are cheap at the minute. Youd put 30k intpo a kitchen and not see it. Bigger picture OP.

riclad

If you make a bid the agent has to tell the
seller, unless its less than the highest bid,
Eg you bid 260, someone has bid 280,
Agent should tell you we had a bid for 280
Eg if you make a new bid it must be more
than 280 ,
I presume you have a solicitor, and have
mortgage approval for x amount
and have at least 15 per cent of the asking price saved up
The no of houses for sale is very low
A few years, ago there were always a few
houses for sale, needs renovation,
Eg doer uppers,
These seem to all gone
If you are looking for a 3 bed house your choice is very limited
Go to daft. Ie
Myhome.ie
Search house 300k max
It's an agents job to keep in touch with potential buyers
If a house is not sale agreed they should be willing to give out
Basic info on eg we have a bid on it etc

1874

riclad wrote: »

If you make a bid the agent has to tell the
seller, unless its less than the highest bid,
Eg you bid 260, someone has bid 280,
Agent should tell you we had a bid for 280
Eg if you make a new bid it must be more
than 280 ,
I presume you have a solicitor, and have
mortgage approval for x amount
and have at least 15 per cent of the asking price saved up
The no of houses for sale is very low
A few years, ago there were always a few
houses for sale, needs renovation,
Eg doer uppers,
These seem to all gone
If you are looking for a 3 bed house your choice is very limited
Go to daft. Ie
Myhome.ie
Search house 300k max
It's an agents job to keep in touch with potential buyers
If a house is not sale agreed they should be willing to give out
Basic info on eg we have a bid on it etc

Have the necessary stuff in place, solicitor lined up but no agreement with them yet,
Just trying to find out if it definitely is in the PSRA rules that a bidder has to be informed of other bids/bids above their own, thats what our agent has said, as I picked his brains regarding no feedback and how to play it.
Not looking at 3 bed semi d's or the like

Gael23

They accepted €330k cash with no chain.
Git delayed a bit with COVID

knucklehead6

Gael23 wrote: »

They accepted €330k cash with no chain.
Git delayed a bit with COVID

Congrats.