Haiti falls into civil war. It President refusing to stand down and attacking protest

AMKC

Poor Haiti. It never seems to get better there. It's one if the poorest countries in the world and now it's in chaos again.
Ever since the massive Earthquake a decade it has just seemed to go downhill.

Would you believe Haiti used to be a rich country at one stage.

BorneTobyWilde

USA needs to conquer Hati, would take an afternoon. Needs someone to take it .

randd1

AMKC wrote: »

Poor Haiti. It never seems to get better there. It's one if the poorest countries in the world and now it's in chaos again.
Ever since the massive Earthquake a decade it has just seemed to go downhill.

Would you believe Haiti used to be a rich country at one stage.

It hasn't been rich since the black slaves rose up and murdered the whites in a revolution and it became independent. That was 200 years ago.

Since then it's been run by warlords and voodoo priests, Pap Doc being the most infamous.

partyguinness

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

USA needs to conquer Hati, would take an afternoon. Needs someone to take it .

Why? There is eff all there.

BorneTobyWilde

partyguinness wrote: »

Why? There is eff all there.

A recent finding has shown that the nation of Haiti might have some of the largest oil reserves in the world. The oil reserves are estimated that they could be larger than those of Venezuela

Smee_Again

randd1 wrote: »

It hasn't been rich since the black slaves rose up and murdered the whites in a revolution and it became independent. That was 200 years ago.

They weren't helped by France demanding reparations in the billions (at today's money) for the loss of their slaves and slave colony. Not to mention the discount imposed on Haitian exports into France.

Is it any wonder the country is as poor as it is.

ednwireland

randd1 wrote: »

It hasn't been rich since the black slaves rose up and murdered the whites in a revolution and it became independent. That was 200 years ago.

Since then it's been run by warlords and voodoo priests, Pap Doc being the most infamous.

dont forget the reparations they had to pay the french for freeing themselves

The external debt of Haiti is one of the main factors that has caused the country's persistent poverty. After the Haitians gained independence from French colonial rule in the Haitian Revolution of 1804, the French returned in 1825 and demanded that the newly independent country pay the French government and French slaveholders the modern equivalent of US$21 billion for the "theft" of the slaveowner's "property" and the land that they had turned into profitable sugar and coffee-producing plantations. This independence debt was financed by French banks and the American Citibank, and finally paid off in 1947.

BorneTobyWilde

It's weird that a place as tiny at Haiti has 12 millions people on it. More than London. And it keeps going up and up, it's one big fcuk fest, nothing else to do.

partyguinness

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

A recent finding has shown that the nation of Haiti might have some of the largest oil reserves in the world. The oil reserves are estimated that they could be larger than those of Venezuela

You mean a 20 year old survey that has quite a few 'ifs' and 'buts' and 'could haves' and speculation but is rather weak when it comes to definites.

General consensus is that there may be a small amount of oil spread over a huge area taking in the Caribbean generally in which Haiti takes up a tiny tiny part.

randd1

Smee_Again wrote: »

They weren't helped by France demanding reparations in the billions (at today's money) for the loss of their slaves and slave colony. Not to mention the discount imposed on Haitian exports into France.

Is it any wonder the country is as poor as it is.

The ostracising from the international community because they were a black republic didn't help matters either.

But that was well over a hundred years ago. Most of the problems these days can be traced back to simple poor governance, any semblance of operating for the public good and good old fashioned brutality of dictatorships.

simongurnick

Always amazes me to think that the other side of island is Dominican Republic. It has its own problems for sure, but really is like night and day.

Timberrrrrrrr

partyguinness wrote: »

Why? There is eff all there.

There's innocent people there.

partyguinness

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There's innocent people there.

Since when does that matter?

To suggest that the US should invade another sovereign country simply to protect innocent people when it does not further the self interest of the US is well meaning but extremely naive. That is not how the US works.

Del2005

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There's innocent people there.

The US record of invading counties, or not invading but changing the regime, isn't much good for innocent people.

Smee_Again

randd1 wrote: »

The ostracising from the international community because they were a black republic didn't help matters either.

But that was well over a hundred years ago. Most of the problems these days can be traced back to simple poor governance, any semblance of operating for the public good and good old fashioned brutality of dictatorships.

Less than 80 years ago they were still paying these reparations, that's very recent to be paying for freeing themselves from slavery.

It's true too that its recent history of dictatorships and piss poor governance hasn't helped but I don't think it's fair to mention the later without adding the context of the former.

Gatling

Del2005 wrote: »

The US record of invading counties, or not invading but changing the regime, isn't much good for innocent people.

One country ,Iraq

Afghanistan went down the drain once the Russians invaded and massacresd the government , then the civilian population got in along with a lot of its infrastructure ,

In haiti it's a different situation less religious ideological differences and tribalism compared to the middle East ,
Haiti is in a bad way , quarter the size of here with almost 4 times the population ,the country is broke ,the people are suffering ,it will take a huge international effort to sort out and organise real reconstruction efforts along with rebuilding government that can run the country again.

Dyr

Gatling wrote: »

Haiti is in a bad way , quarter the size of here with almost 4 times the population ,the country is broke ,the people are suffering ,it will take a huge international effort to sort out and organise real reconstruction efforts along with rebuilding government that can run the country again.

How do you rebuild something that was never there?

You can piss as much money as you want up against the wall in Haiti but it won't change the place

timmyntc

Gatling wrote: »

One country ,Iraq .

Libya, Syria, Chile?

Varik

Haiti's previous president stepped down in Feb 2016, they had an interim government that was meant to stay for a few months but it was delayed. The Elections only happened in November 2016 and the now current president took power in February 2017.

So it's not like he was elected and then interim government was still in power for a year making him a prematurely lame duck president, he wasn't president at all and for 9 months of that he wasn't even elected yet.

neris

Did we not send them a load of cash and humanitarian aid a few years ago that vanished

Gatling

timmyntc wrote: »

Libya, Syria, Chile?

When did they invade Syria and Chile ,Libya was primarily Anglo french endeavour , yes America did have involvement but it was led by others .

Nothing to do with Haiti though

Gatling

Bambi wrote: »

How do you rebuild something that was never there?

You can piss as much money as you want up against the wall in Haiti but it won't change the place

They have to do something ,the country is in the same state as it was 10+ years ago post earthquake , litterally looks exactly a few days after ,
All the humanitarian aid and funds have all gone , squandered and lost in various scam schemes billions missing ,

partyguinness

I remember after the earthquake 2010 posters on here (yes I have been here that long to remember) were awfully keen to fly to Haiti to help out.

It was gently pointed out to some eager posters that without experience in major disaster recovery you are eff all use and more of a hinderance.

Donald Trump

partyguinness wrote: »

I remember after the earthquake 2010 posters on here (yes I have been here that long to remember) were awfully keen to fly to Haiti to help out.

It was gently pointed out to some eager posters that without experience in major disaster recovery you are eff all use and more of a hinderance.

Don't be ridiculous. Everyone knows that all you need to do after any sort of disaster is throw paper towels into a crowd!

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

When did they invade Syria and Chile ,Libya was primarily Anglo french endeavour , yes America did have involvement but it was led by others .

Nothing to do with Haiti though

Er, they invaded Haiti at one point...

timmyntc

Gatling wrote: »

When did they invade Syria and Chile ,Libya was primarily Anglo french endeavour , yes America did have involvement but it was led by others .

Nothing to do with Haiti though

The original post was about US involvement in regime change - it never improves things for the man on the street.

Same would be true of Haiti - yes their leaders are corrupt, but foreign intervention will just leave a power vacuum which will be filled by the same if not worse.

The only people who can be trusted to make good change for the Haitians, are the Haitians.

Dyr

Gatling wrote: »

They have to do something ,the country is in the same state as it was 10+ years ago post earthquake , litterally looks exactly a few days after ,
All the humanitarian aid and funds have all gone , squandered and lost in various scam schemes billions missing ,

So piss even more money up against the wall? Outside intervention is not going to help Haiti, it's a basket case. Failed government after failed government throughout its history.

Interesting that someone mentioned Chile, suffered a bigger earthquake than Haiti in 2010, is still the best economy in South America.

Timberrrrrrrr

partyguinness wrote: »

Since when does that matter?

To suggest that the US should invade another sovereign country simply to protect innocent people when it does not further the self interest of the US is well meaning but extremely naive. That is not how the US works.

Its what they have done for decades in oil rich countries.

Gatling

Bambi wrote: »

Interesting that someone mentioned Chile, suffered a bigger earthquake than Haiti in 2010, is still the best economy in South America.

Something has to be done ,

Sooner or later they will foreign troops to keep the peace ,but states like that would be better if the the UN was reorganised so they can essentially take the country for a number of years so reconstruction can take place ,and put a team in to run as administrators who control the spending and organise the rebuilding contracts,and get schools and hospitals up running with the rest of the viral infrastructure

Montage of Feck

The input of foreign aid and NGO's in the long term is of negligible benefit to a nation, the old proverb about teaching a man to fish very much applies here.

Dyr

Gatling wrote: »

Something has to be done ,

Sooner or later they will foreign troops to keep the peace ,but states like that would be better if the the UN was reorganised so they can essentially take the country for a number of years so reconstruction can take place ,and put a team in to run as administrators who control the spending and organise the rebuilding contracts,and get schools and hospitals up running with the rest of the viral infrastructure

Something does not have to be done.


Allowing an organisation as inept and corrupt as the UN to run the country is a recipe for disaster. The UN handled security in Haiti for a while post the earthquake, didnt work out too well and the Haitians didnt care for them what with the rapes etc.