Open Centrefire Gallery Rifle

chris1038a

As Open centrefire gallery rifle is mainly semi auto pistol calibre carbines. I was wondering what carbines you ladies and gents are using to compete with.

Wadi14

http://nasrpc.ie/gallery-rifle/

chris1038a

Was wondering what Makes and Models of carbines people are using.
Thanks

Wadi14

As per the web site most common for Gallery is Lever action and there are also competitions for M1,s chambered in .30

Grizzly 45

From the NASRPC wepsite
Open Centrefire Gallery Rifle (GRCFO) is for pistol calibre rifles, that do not qualify for GRCF or GRCFC. Any calibre between .354 and .455 is permitted. The most common firearms in competition are semi auto carbines, chambered in 9mm

1st I've ever seen of that one!!:eek:
But absolutely great if that is the case as there be plenty of 9mm carbines on the market nowadays.Everything from Ruger PC9s to Colt AR uppers in 9mm and lots of good stuff inbetween.:D

Looks enviously at CZ Scorpion EVO and calculates what personal body parts can be sold and possibility of liscensing it:D

Richard308

If anyone had licenced a 9mm semi auto Rifle I’d be interested. I’d love a schmeisser 9mm pcr

Wadi14

Just had a look at the competition leaderboard tables, surprisingly there is no listing for GRCFO.

smmember20

Wadi14 wrote: »

Just had a look at the competition leaderboard tables, surprisingly there is no listing for GRCFO.

What is GRCFO?

Munsterlad102

smmember20 wrote: »

What is GRCFO?

Open centrefire gallery rifle, semi auto rifles in pistol calibers like 9mm.

smmember20

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Open centrefire gallery rifle, semi auto rifles in pistol calibers like 9mm.

Great thanks, I believe there are a lot lever action 9mm in use in the UK, S/A as we know is banned!

Munsterlad102

smmember20 wrote: »

Great thanks, I believe there are a lot lever action 9mm in use in the UK, S/A as we know is banned!

I think you might be confusing lever action with lever release. I'm 99% sure there aren't any lever action 9mm. Lever release is basically semi auto, but you have to press a lever between each shot but those were banned in the UK not to long ago. There are some 9mm long barreled revolvers in the UK though and 9mm pistols up North.

smmember20

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

I think you might be confusing lever action with lever release. I'm 99% sure there aren't any lever action 9mm. Lever release is basically semi auto, but you have to press a lever between each shot but those were banned in the UK not to long ago. There are some 9mm long barreled revolvers in the UK though and 9mm pistols up North.

True not really to familiar I know Ruger do a lovley 9mm carbine:
Ruger PC Carbine, looks like it would be the medicine for this Open GR comp. I'd say very accurate, reminds me of the days in the FCA shooting Gustaf! Not the same but it was well capable of 6" groups rapid fire at 25M or was it yards!

Munsterlad102

smmember20 wrote: »

True not really to familiar I know Ruger do a lovley 9mm carbine:
Ruger PC Carbine, looks like it would be the medicine for this Open GR comp. I'd say very accurate, reminds me of the days in the FCA shooting Gustaf! Not the same but it was well capable of 6" groups rapid fire at 25M or was it yards!

Yeah I was looking at that myself not too long ago, I think it takes Glock mags too so that's an added bonus. Speaking of the Gustaf, those are dirt cheap in Switzerland like 300-500 euro. Shame semi auto converts are banned now, that would have been a decent gun for this competition.

Grizzly 45

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Yeah I was looking at that myself not too long ago, I think it takes Glock mags too so that's an added bonus. Speaking of the Gustaf, those are dirt cheap in Switzerland like 300-500 euro. Shame semi-auto converts are banned now, that would have been a decent gun for this competition.

It does, so make sure you don't have a Glock pistol with it in that case, as it is illegal under the EU directive to have a 20 round Glock pistol mag at the same address as your "Glock compatible " any brand 9mm carbine. As you "Might" be tempted to put the nasty 20 round high capacity Glock pistol in the Ruger which is only allowed a 10 round mag these days as a long gun!!
Yes it is AB -Sol -Utely THAT crazy of an EU directive, and is causing absolute chaos on the continent .:eek::eek:

Munsterlad102

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It does, so make sure you don't have a Glock pistol with it in that case, as it is illegal under the EU directive to have a 20 round Glock pistol mag at the same address as your "Glock compatible " any brand 9mm carbine. As you "Might" be tempted to put the nasty 20 round high capacity Glock pistol in the Ruger which is only allowed a 10 round mag these days as a long gun!!
Yes it is AB -Sol -Utely THAT crazy of an EU directive, and is causing absolute chaos on the continent .:eek::eek:

Every single word in that directive makes absoloutely no sense, surely restricted firearms shouldn’t have a magazine limit because they’re hard enough to get. Fecking Germans making rules for the sake of it. But aren’t magazines referred to as loading devices under the EU directive? When I think of loading device, I think of one of those devices that help load magazines. Still though, surely you should be allowed to have your 20 round Glock mags for your Glock and your 10 rounds for your Ruger PC9. I emailed someone from the EU about the directive a few months ago and they were clueless, so if they don’t know the definitions then could a case be made about this?

smmember20

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It does, so make sure you don't have a Glock pistol with it in that case, as it is illegal under the EU directive to have a 20 round Glock pistol mag at the same address as your "Glock compatible " any brand 9mm carbine. As you "Might" be tempted to put the nasty 20 round high capacity Glock pistol in the Ruger which is only allowed a 10 round mag these days as a long gun!!
Yes it is AB -Sol -Utely THAT crazy of an EU directive, and is causing absolute chaos on the continent .:eek::eek:

The Ruger PC 9 would be licenced as a S/A rifle and in that case you are simply restricted to 10 shot mag capacity. I don't think it is a hard thing to manage, glock mags limited to 10 rounds or purchased as 10 round for your carbine fully compliant, just don't use standard glock mags with a capacity greater than 10.
The Gallery competitions that I have done in the past only require 6 rounds to be loaded at any one time, so no need for more than 10 shot capacity in any case!!

Grizzly 45

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Every single word in that directive makes absoloutely no sense, surely restricted firearms shouldn’t have a magazine limit because they’re hard enough to get. Fecking Germans making rules for the sake of it. But aren’t magazines referred to as loading devices under the EU directive? When I think of loading device, I think of one of those devices that help load magazines. Still though, surely you should be allowed to have your 20 round Glock mags for your Glock and your 10 rounds for your Ruger PC9. I emailed someone from the EU about the directive a few months ago and they were clueless, so if they don’t know the definitions then could a case be made about this?

Dude!
Firearms United Network and various other groups concerned with this have been pointing out how stupid this is and how much trouble it would cause for the last 4 years both on an EU level and on a national level when this directive would be implemented...
It fell on deaf ears and has caused unmitigated chaos...In Germany of all places! No one has a CLUE what to do with the high capacity mags...If you owned them before a certain date, they are classified as "pre-ban" and must be kept away from the rifle in a separate gun safe or cabinet, and you have to go and get Federal permission to keep them If you bought then between a certain date, just as the ban was being transcribed into national law, you can only possess them if you participate regularly in an IPSC style sport, and if you bought them post ban, they are contraband, but you can keep them anyhow if you can prove you bought them before the ban... Of course you cant sell them,trade them or export them out of the EU because...arms trafficking legislation.

And we won't even mention cases wher you have a big cal AR ..IE a 450 SOCOM for boar hunting, and you actually do need a 20 rounder to get 10 450s into it.
So I wouldn't be surprised if whoever you wrote to is clueless on this... It is a godawful mess caused by the "Guns are bad, we'd better ban the mags..M'kay?" crowd, and the "We must do something!" brigade in the EU who sat on deac legislation for 7 years which was the initial loophole for the Paris terrs to aquire the converted AKs in the 1st place.

Ev0

Sorry to dig up an older thread but I can't find any other info on the Open Gallery Rifle Centrefire competitions, is it a new category? I can't find any results from any 2021 competitions.

In theory this could be a route to licensing (albeit on a restricted license) a 9mm S/A carbine as I'm not sure of any other valid reason for one. This would also likely make it difficult to obtain a license but assuming the competiton category is active, it must be possible?

Ev0

Just as a follow up on this, I contacted the NASRPC (they were very helpful and forthcoming) in regards to GRFCO and recived the following;

 

"We have not had anyone compete in Open Centrefire Gallery Rifle (OGRCF) in a National Competition as yet.

 OGRCF is for Centrefire Pistol Calibres in any action .... other than a Lever Action.

 For the 2022 Season - we will include any scores shot in 

GRM1 - M1 Gallery Rifle (For M1 Carbines chambered in 30 Carbine)  

in both the GRM1 Scores and the OGRCF Scores - as they qualify for both.

This will be reviewed at the end of 2022, to see if it is practice we will continue.

 NASRPC simply define the disciplines - some of our member clubs then offer the disciplines in Hosted National Competitions.

OGRCF has been offered in many events over the last 4 or 5 years - however, nobody has availed of the opportunity - as yet."

I believe either nobody has jumped through the hoops to license a 9mm S/A thus far, or maybe the few that have simply don't compete.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433201#Comment_118433201

Considering the NASRPC site only recently got updated to include OGRCF I didn't know it had been an option for the last few years!

Wish I had now 🙄

Yes, I know some people have licenced some pistol caliber carbines for matches(at least 3 that I know of), not usually matches within Ireland, mostly on the continent.

Yes you can get a licence for same with the reason being target shooting, as there are a lot of PCC matches run all over the world, not just in Ireland.

OGRCF is the only one I am aware of in Ireland as yet, but there may be some club matches which have classes for it.

You have to bear in mind too that Gallery Rifle isn't everyone's cup of tea either, hence why there are some licenced here but not used in matches here, only practice for matches held overseas.

NASRPC

To see what is offered in NASRPC Competitions ..

It will be listed in the match invite for each Nationally Ranked Competition (They are often posted here!)

It is the decision of the Host Club/Range what disciplines they offer - so that will be confirmed in the match notice.

Of course - NASRPC are not the only show in town - there are club competition held up and down the entire island every weekend - they may, indeed most likely will, offer disciplines other than the NASRPC ones.

As highlighted already, you can compete in OGRCF with a rifle chambered in a Pistol Calibre in any Action e.g. A Bolt Action, A Pump Action, A Semi Auto Action, A Rolling Block Action, A Martini Action, a Whatever Action - - - - as long as it is NOT a Lever Action.

NASRPC

Grizzly 45

My thoughts.

With all due respect to NARGC, but there are some slight problems with this;

1] There are few if any of the above actions made in 9mm parabellum bar Semi-auto and the oddity made by Sthn guns in the UK in 9mm para which is a lever-action AR-style thingy, so irrelevant.It really makes no commercial sense for any such to be made in the big scheme of things as the market for such is predominately copies of select fire machine pistols and carbines. The only pump actions that were ever produced, I think, in pistol calibres were the old Colt lightning, and they are now pushing 140 years in originals and I dunno does anyone else make copies of them today?

2] The next problem is this proposed upcoming legislation of nullifying any licenses for Semi-autos post-2006, and the fact is that this PCC is pretty damn expensive single-purpose guns here. You could at least double reason an M1carbine in 30 cal for both gallery and foxing or deer hunting, but a 9mm is a harder sell both on cost and good reason with a possible ban on further licenses this year? I'd gladly rock up to one of these shoots with a CZ EVO or the like, but damn if I'm going to put 2.5k down and lose the license for it by possibly this year's end. THAT is a major stumbling block, and which we need clarity on soonest, before a lot of people would consider going into this discipline

If no one knows about a competition being offered or organised at the club level, no one is really going to show up for them or know about them.ESP as these PCCs is a very rare bird in even our tiny SACF group of shooters. Could you give us some clubs that do have this discipline on offer? Or even SACF comps? The last 2 COVID years threw everything into a heap and it would help folks if we knew what was being shot where and when?

3] A solution might be found with the CF pistol shooters on this. Why not put in a subcategory of this for "stocked CF pistols"/IE things like vintage Mauser Broomhandles to modern stocked Glocks, CZ's SIGs, Colts, etc? There are clamp-on conversion kits or shoulder stocks that turn those kinds of pistols into a carbine type firearm and are a lot cheaper than buying a dedicated firearm for one competition? I, for one, could compete on that with my current pistol equipment, but I can't because it's not a carbine, and you don't have a class for these types of guns.

Grizzly

NASRPC

You are making a mistake if you think the purpose of the NASRPC is to make up disciplines to justify your having particular types of firearms.

That is not, and never has been, the case.

OGRCF was defined by the IGRF - International Gallery Rifle Federation - ~2015-2016.

As NASRPC is a member of the IGRF, it has been offered at NASRPC events since being defined - however, as we said, nobody has, as yet, availed themselves of the opportunity to take part.

OGRCF was included in the most recent IGRF World Cup in South Africa in 2019 where the inaugural Individual World Champion was awarded to South Africa's Nico Roets.

.......

As stated earlier, it is for Rifles chambered in ANY centrefire pistol calibre, with ANY action other than Lever action.

Looking at competitors at that most recent IGRF World Cup - 9mm PCCs would be the most common seen in the competition, however, we also saw people enter it with a a revolver rifle chambered in 38 special and another one chambered in 45 long colt - neither of which could be used in GRSB, GRCF or CGRCF.

......

Even a cursory look through this board shows me 9 or 10 competitions, since the start of 2019, where it was offered.

However, you do not need a competition to justify the ownership of a firearm - indeed you do not need to compete at all, to justify the ownership of a firearm - the vast majority of firearm owners do no compete - "target shooting" is more than sufficient. (Unless, of course, you list competition as your reason for seeking the license in the first place!!)

NASRPC

Grizzly 45

You are making a mistake if you think the purpose of the NASRPC is to make up disciplines to justify your having particular types of firearms.

That is not, and never has been, the case.

Ok, could you tell us what exactly is the core mission of NARGC, at this point in time?Are you a representative body for disciplines on the national and international stage? Are you a lobby group to the Irish Govt to counter/propose changes in legislation?It's kind of hard for some of us to figure out what NARGC is doing or has a stance on issues? Not having a pop at you[NARGC] but just it is very hard for some of us to figure out what you do exactly?

As NASRPC is a member of the IGRF, it has been offered at NASRPC events since being defined - however, as we said, nobody has, as yet, availed themselves of the opportunity to take part.

Maybe because no one has one of these PCCs here, or those that do just shoot them outside Ireland in competitions? Or those who would are not going to risk buying an expensive single-use firearm to lose it in the pending legislative ban? Hence no one availing of this discipline.

Even a cursory look through this board shows me 9 or 10 competitions, since the start of 2019, where it was offered.

For PCC??? Could you post a link[s] to such? As I've missed the memo on that! I just had a look at your own calendar and the next big event is March in Midlands 6/7,but no sign of a PCC discipline. [Or target shotgun?] Small tip. Could you put a key someplace to the abbreviations on the calendar? If I'm getting lost on them, what's it like for a newbie?😉

However, you do not need competition to justify the ownership of a firearm - indeed you do not need to compete at all, to justify the ownership of a firearm - the vast majority of firearm owners do not compete - "target shooting" is more than sufficient. (Unless, of course, you list competition as your reason for seeking the license in the first place!!)

Ok that's true.But in reality, you are looking for a restricted type firearm because of either its action or calibre for this type of competition,as bar 30 carbine, there are no options of using pistol calibre rounds to hunt here in Ireland. So you really are limited in your very good reasons to own one bar competition. And one of the elephants in the room is the uncertainty of pending legislation on the semi-auto versions of these.Which most people would want in some shape or form.

Put it like this..We should have a lot more CF pistol shooters here using UK style Long Barrelled Pistols as they are perfectly legal to license here under the current legislation, as they don't fit the definition of a handgun here either. But there is precisely, one or none, here as the licensing and possible legal actions is too onerous for most to try.So saying, get one CF pistol cal lead dispenser and compete is somewhat disingenuous for people who want to get into the discipline.

Cass

MODERATOR WARNING

As I cannot split this thread into two separate categories due to the nature of the posts containing more than a sinle point of discussion I'm issuing this warning.

The Target Forum is NOT for the discussion of laws, acts, politics (Governmental or governing body) etc. It is solely for the purpose of discussing target shooting or announcing upcoming competitions, events, etc.

To that end please get back on topic or I'll have to shut the thread down and that serves nobody.

NASRPC

Abbreviations as requested.

NASRPC

----------------

SPR - Sporting Rifle (22lr, convex foreend, no butthook, 10.5lb max weight, scope permitted, single point sling permitted)

FSPR - Field Sporting Rifle (22lr, convex foreend no butthook, 10.5lb max weight, scope permitted, bipod and rear rest permitted)

TR - Target Rifle (22lr, iron sights - single point sling, essentially what is permitted in Olympics)

PRONE50 - 50m Prone Rifle

PRONE100 - 100m Prone Rifle

----------------

BR50 - 50m Benchrest Rifle

FS - Factory Sporter (22lr,10.5lb max weight, 12x max magnification)

SA - Semi auto (22lr, 10.5lb max weight, no mag limit, semi auto permitted)

HV - Heavy Varmint - see WRABF for details)

LV - Light Varmint - see WRABF for details)

IS - International Sporter - see WRABF for details)

----------------

CFP - Centrefire Pistol - any Pistol or Revolver chambered in a pistol calibre up to .455, iron sights only

OCFP - Open Centrefire Pistol - any Pistol or Revolver chambered in a pistol calibre up to .455, any sights.

25P - 25m Precision - see NASRPC.ie for details.

50P - 50m Precision - see NASRPC.ie for details.

TP1 - Timed & Precision 1 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

MT - Multi Target - see NASRPC.ie for details.

CFP48 - 48 Shot Match - see NASRPC.ie for details.

GP85 - Gallery Pistol 85 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

----------------

SBP - Smallbore Pistol - any 22lr Pistol or Revolver, iron sights only

SSBP - Single Handed Smallbore Pistol - any 22lr Pistol or Revolver - iron sights only - only shot one handed

SBR - Smallbore Revolver - only 22lr Revolver - iron sights only

OSBP - Open Smallbore Pistol - any 22lr Pistol or Revolver, any sights.

25P - 25m Precision - see NASRPC.ie for details.

50P - 50m Precision - see NASRPC.ie for details.

TP1 - Timed & Precision 1 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

MT - Multi Target - see NASRPC.ie for details.

GP40 - Gallery Pistol 40 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

GP85 - Gallery Pistol 85 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

----------------

GRSB - Smallbore Gallery Rifle - 22lr Rifle - scopes permitted, slings and knee rolls not permitted

25P - 25m Precision - see NASRPC.ie for details.

50P - 50m Precision - see NASRPC.ie for details.

TP1 - Timed & Precision 1 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

TP2 - Timed & Precision 2 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

MT - Multi Target - see NASRPC.ie for details.

1020 - 102 Shot Match - see NASRPC.ie for details.

1500 - 150 Shot Match - see NASRPC.ie for details.

----------------

GRCF - Centrefire Gallery Rifle - Centrefire Pistol Calibre Rifle - Lever action only - slings and knee rolls not permitted - scopes permitted

CGRCF - Classic Centrefire Gallery Rifle - Centrefire Pistol Calibre Rifle - Lever action only - Iron Sights only - slings and knee rolls not permitted - in keeping with the original"

OGRCF - Open Centrefire Gallery Rifle - Centrefire Pistol Calibre Rifle - Any Action except lever action - scopes permitted - slings and knee rolls not permitted

25P - 25m Precision - see NASRPC.ie for details.

50P - 50m Precision - see NASRPC.ie for details.

TP1 - Timed & Precision 1 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

TP2 - Timed & Precision 2 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

MT - Multi Target - see NASRPC.ie for details.

1020 - 102 Shot Match - see NASRPC.ie for details.

1500 - 150 Shot Match - see NASRPC.ie for details.

----------------

GRM1 - M1 Gallery Rifle - M1 Carbine chambered in .30 carbine only - iron sights only - slings and knee rolls not permitted

25P - 25m Precision - see NASRPC.ie for details.

50P - 50m Precision - see NASRPC.ie for details.

TP1 - Timed & Precision 1 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

TP2 - Timed & Precision 2 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

MT - Multi Target - see NASRPC.ie for details.

1020 - 102 Shot Match - see NASRPC.ie for details.

1500 - 150 Shot Match - see NASRPC.ie for details.

----------------

TSGM - Target Shotgun Manual - smoothbore - target slugs (attached wad) only - any calibre - manually operated action, any sights

TSGS - Target Shotgun Semi - smoothbore - target slugs (attached wad) only - any calibre - semi auto action, any sights

TP1 - Timed & Precision 1 - see NASRPC.ie for details.

MT - Multi Target - see NASRPC.ie for details.

EMBCUP - Embassy Cup - see NASRPC.ie for details.

TSG100200 - 100m & 200m Shotgun -

TSG100 - 100m Shotgun - see NASRPC.ie for details.

chris1038a

Evo. Who from the NASRPC said that no one competed in OGRCF as of yet. The NASRPC results page says different

GooseB

BR50 - 50m Benchrest Rifle

FS - Factory Sporter (22lr,10.5lb max weight, 12x max magnification)

SA - Semi auto (22lr, 10.5lb max weight, no mag limit, semi auto permitted)

HV - Heavy Varmint - see WRABF for details)

LV - Light Varmint - see WRABF for details)

IS - International Sporter - see WRABF for details)

With regard to the benchrest rules above, there was a typo - The Factory Sporter has an 8.5lb weight limit.

Factory Sporter

• Max. Rifle weight 8.5Lbs
• Max. Scope Magnification 12x

International Sporter

• Max. Rifle weight 8.5Lbs
• Max. Scope Magnification 6.5x

Light Varmint

• Max. Rifle weight 10.5Lbs
• No Max. Scope Magnification

Heavy Varmint

• Max. Rifle weight 15Lbs
• No Max. Scope Magnification

NASRPC

With regard to the benchrest rules above, there was a typo - The Factory Sporter has an 8.5lb weight limit.

Well spotted - correct.

Ev0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523430#Comment_118523430

I couldn't find any results but there's every chance I missed something.