Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Father Hernandez

Golfman64 wrote: »

Gardaí cannot stop Irish holiday makers travelling for ‘dentist appointments’
via The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-cannot-stop-irish-holiday-makers-travelling-for-dentist-appointments-1.4484599

This stood out to me the most.

Holiday-makers continue to make up a tiny proportion of those breaching Covid-19 regulations. “The vast majority of breaches are occurring domestically,” a source said.

Uproar about Johnny and Mary going to Lanzarote to escape here but little said about the real issues, in this case domestic breaches - large gathering in households for parties, etc.

The real issue being Vaccinations are our 'get out of jail' card and the supposed strategy to get out of this mess yet the incredible poor roll out of vaccinations. Yes there are supply issues but where is the uproar, we're all getting mad at the wrong issues.

Bit cynical

Bit cynical wrote: »

The EU treaties are superior in law to the member states's national constitutions.

Yes, I agree, countries also voluntarily sign up to those treaties. Many of which will cause the government to change domestic laws.
My question, I guess, is to the poster that brought EU law into it, which law exactly and what does he want to happen?
That's all

acequion

theguzman wrote: »

I left Ireland today indefinitely, it was so good to be able to eat out and drink a beer here in my hotel tonight, the main clientele around Dublin airport were foreigner expats leaving Ireland and members of our ethnic minority traveler community. Gardai are checking all departures, I was not fined as my own travel was exempted under the 1947 health act.

The best of luck to you theguzman. You are lucky to have a legitimate reason to be able to get out of here, yet it's a pity you felt driven to it [been following your posts].

Hopefully when you do come back to Ireland sanity will have prevailed once again and the awful gloom of 2020/2021 will have lifted.

Hego Damask

My wife has had the 1st dose of the moderna vaccine, I will get it asap to return to some sort of normality, regards to the possibilty of vaccine passports coming into play for international travel, will this include kids ?
We have 2 boys (5,9) and the recent trials starting with AZ vaccine on kids has me wondering ?

Personally I don't think kids need it - especially once all adults are vaccinated.

DubLad69

DubLad69 wrote: »

Would elements of European Law that allows for the free movement of people not now be part of our constitution? And even if its its not, doesn't European Law override national laws?

Del Griffith wrote: »

Not in the Irish Constitution no but as an EU citizen you have the move and reside freely within the territory of the member states.

This is likely the reason they can't actually stop you from boarding the flight or make it illegal to fly (like the UK at the moment).

Bit cynical wrote: »

The EU treaties are superior in law to the member states's national constitutions.

As has been pointed out in this thread multiple times, the right to free movement only applies to the right to LIVE and WORK in another EU country and that is also an essential reason to travel.

It does not apply to holidays and is subject to national regulations as the likes of Faceman can confirm regarding Spanish residency. You cant just arrive and voila, accepted.

Spain fyi has banned flights on a regional basis and multiple nations closed their borders completely. Again this has been pointed out in the older threads.

No EU treaty forbids any nation from controlling its own border as needs be.

RobitTV

RobitTV wrote: »

Roberta Beccaris, office manager at Clinica Dental Tenerife Sur: 'We think these people are just coming for a holiday and we have a file ready for when the police come to us for the information.'

Huge GDPR violation.

First of all I would not ever agree with what these tourists did. This isn't the right thing to do to a local business in these tough times.

But I would be furious if they decided to pass 'customer' details to the Gardai back in Ireland. This is a private company, and I'm certain this can be legally challenged. They have no right as a private company to pass private customer information to the authorities unless the authorities have the legal authority to request it.

We know these people aren't real 'customers' but this is quite amazing how they have a 'file' ready like some sort of dossier.

yoshimitsu wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40226057.html
“ When asked if gardaí will take the file containing the Irish people's names at the clinic, a spokesperson for An Garda Síochána declined to comment.”

They can’t, plain and simple

GDPR specifically doesnt apply for law enforcement purposes so yes, they can, plain and simple.

They wont because missing an appointment happens and the burden of proof remains with the prosecution for one and two, I highly doubt the dentist is willing to travel to Ireland and give evidence in any case thats only going to result in (at best) a fine.

Red Silurian

I'm hearing that dentists in the canaries are no longer taking bookings from Ireland, something to do with a bunch of no-shows over the last few weeks

Botox appointments are still happening though

Cops probably won't appreciate being made fools of and there could be mandatory hotel quarantine on your return so beware people

Johnny_Fontane

Sorry if this has been answered before (I have looked....).

My mother (Irish) and partner (German) in their 60s and 70s dont have a house in Ireland any more (they do in Spain), but have been living with family here since Christmas. They dont have Spanish residency as they have only been over there about 2 years.

They are looking to return to their house in Spain, but I am not sure that this would be classified as Essential travel.

I think they should stay, but they want to go back. Are they looking at a €2k fine if they turn up at the airport in March?

Paul_D

A relative of mine may need to fly to Europe for essential reasons via London. It's a non connecting flight and they would have to stay overnight at the airport hotel there.
Question is, would they need to do a test for the UK before they depart? Or require to quarantine? They are Irish citizens/residents and they would fly from Dublin. The final destination country does not require a test.
From what I could gather, it seems that people coming from Common Travel Area do not require test/quarantine. Is it really the case? Could an airline require a test anyway?

BringBackMick

Paul_D wrote: »

A relative of mine may need to fly to Europe for essential reasons via London. It's a non connecting flight and they would have to stay overnight at the airport hotel there.
Question is, would they need to do a test for the UK before they depart? Or require to quarantine? They are Irish citizens/residents and they would fly from Dublin. The final destination country does not require a test.
From what I could gather, it seems that people coming from Common Travel Area do not require test/quarantine. Is it really the case? Could an airline require a test anyway?

As far as I am aware flights from Ireland into the UK do not need PCR tests.

But I haven't flown in recent weeks so other may be better positioned to say

Johnny_Fontane

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Sorry if this has been answered before (I have looked....).

My mother (Irish) and partner (German) in their 60s and 70s dont have a house in Ireland any more (they do in Spain), but have been living with family here since Christmas. They dont have Spanish residency as they have only been over there about 2 years.

They are looking to return to their house in Spain, but I am not sure that this would be classified as Essential travel.

I think they should stay, but they want to go back. Are they looking at a €2k fine if they turn up at the airport in March?

They live in Spain right?
So they're just going home after Xmas. Can't see an issue

BringBackMick

BringBackMick wrote: »

As far as I am aware flights from Ireland into the UK do not need PCR tests.

But I haven't flown in recent weeks so other may be better positioned to say

You don’t need a PCR test to go from Ireland to the UK, nor is there a self isolation requirement. UK rules are only for travel from “outside of the Common Travel Area”

Johnny_Fontane

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Sorry if this has been answered before (I have looked....).

My mother (Irish) and partner (German) in their 60s and 70s dont have a house in Ireland any more (they do in Spain), but have been living with family here since Christmas. They dont have Spanish residency as they have only been over there about 2 years.

They are looking to return to their house in Spain, but I am not sure that this would be classified as Essential travel.

I think they should stay, but they want to go back. Are they looking at a €2k fine if they turn up at the airport in March?

It’s fine. The relevant statute includes the following as an exception to the travel restriction:

(p) move to another residence where, in all the circumstances of the case, such movement is reasonably necessary.

Note, not “essential” but “reasonably necessary”

dartboardio

Decided to stay in Dubai for the foreseeable. Things are pretty normal here yet safe.

When I arrived the cases were 4K a day, now they’re down to 2k and vaccinating 100,000+ people in 24 hours.

I could see other restrictions being lifted soon since they have now lifted the ‘no background music’ in bars and restaurants...

This is a good example of living alongside the virus!

beggars_bush

dartboardio wrote: »

Decided to stay in Dubai for the foreseeable. Things are pretty normal here yet safe.

When I arrived the cases were 4K a day, now they’re down to 2k and vaccinating 100,000+ people in 24 hours.

I could see other restrictions being lifted soon since they have now lifted the ‘no background music’ in bars and restaurants...

This is a good example of living alongside the virus!

A lot of influencers will be delighted

acequion

dartboardio wrote: »

Decided to stay in Dubai for the foreseeable. Things are pretty normal here yet safe.

When I arrived the cases were 4K a day, now they’re down to 2k and vaccinating 100,000+ people in 24 hours.

I could see other restrictions being lifted soon since they have now lifted the ‘no background music’ in bars and restaurants...

This is a good example of living alongside the virus!

Enjoy and fair play to you for taking the plunge. Life here is oppressive so you made a wise move.

Johnny_Fontane

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s fine. The relevant statute includes the following as an exception to the travel restriction:

(p) move to another residence where, in all the circumstances of the case, such movement is reasonably necessary.

Note, not “essential” but “reasonably necessary”

Thanks for this. Would it be worth their while printing out the statute and having to hand when they meet the fuzz in the airport? I think that will freak them out the most, being approached and having to explain their situation.

faceman

If and when this happens it’s going to be incredibly hard to keep a lid on Ireland.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/vaccinated-brits-could-fast-tracked-23501754

RobitTV

Agree with the post above. And it's becoming clear that the UK can start travelling earlier if the vaccine rollout remains on track.

Ireland will probably have to wait until late June or July and with a PCR test at the ready. That's unless they loosen the restrictions very significantly.

Johnny_Fontane

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Thanks for this. Would it be worth their while printing out the statute and having to hand when they meet the fuzz in the airport? I think that will freak them out the most, being approached and having to explain their situation.

Yes, they should. Part 2, clause p and r. There are more essential reasons here than listed on gov.ie

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/701/made/en/print

MarkY91

faceman wrote: »

If and when this happens it’s going to be incredibly hard to keep a lid on Ireland.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/vaccinated-brits-could-fast-tracked-23501754

I don't think all those British rushing for an Irish passport during Brexit will be as quick to use their new Irish passports. Sure we will be grand, a nice bag of chips at sandymount will be great craic this summer

faceman

MarkY91 wrote: »

I don't think all those British rushing for an Irish passport during Brexit will be as quick to use their new Irish passports. Sure we will be grand, a nice bag of chips at sandymount will be great craic this summer

Never thought of that about the passports! A small temporary consolation prize for the U.K. I guess!

Theboinkmaster

faceman wrote: »

If and when this happens it’s going to be incredibly hard to keep a lid on Ireland.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/vaccinated-brits-could-fast-tracked-23501754

Makes sense - all the holiday destination countries that rely on tourism like Greece, Portugal and Spain are going to do this.

Theboinkmaster

RobitTV wrote: »

Agree with the post above. And it's becoming clear that the UK can start travelling earlier if the vaccine rollout remains on track.

Ireland will probably have to wait until late June or July and with a PCR test at the ready. That's unless they loosen the restrictions very significantly.

Once restrictions start being lifted in April Irish people are not going to stand by and watch the rest of Europe enjoy their holibops.

If we have vulnerable and elderly vaccinated by May I expect summer holidays will be allowed again - maybe certain countries might be restricted (variants in South Africa as example).

But I'm going to Portugal in July - won't be vaccinated by then probably but if both countries have low levels and i can do the PCR test thing then I'd expect to be able to crack on.

Theboinkmaster

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Makes sense - all the holiday destination countries that rely on tourism like Greece, Portugal and Spain are going to do this.

And the UK confined today that though they won’t do their own vaccination passport they will facilitate people getting them for tourism travel to Spain etc

Red Silurian

dartboardio wrote: »

Decided to stay in Dubai for the foreseeable. Things are pretty normal here yet safe.

When I arrived the cases were 4K a day, now they’re down to 2k and vaccinating 100,000+ people in 24 hours.

I could see other restrictions being lifted soon since they have now lifted the ‘no background music’ in bars and restaurants...

This is a good example of living alongside the virus!

It does sound very enjoyable but will you be considered for a vaccine in time?

Red Silurian

RobitTV wrote: »

Agree with the post above. And it's becoming clear that the UK can start travelling earlier if the vaccine rollout remains on track.

Ireland will probably have to wait until late June or July and with a PCR test at the ready. That's unless they loosen the restrictions very significantly.

I think you're being overly optimistic, I think September is much more likely target for full vaccination

Theboinkmaster

colmtheperson wrote: »

I think you're being overly optimistic, I think September is much more likely target for full vaccination

IMO we don't need full vaccination to open up international travel again.

Ladylouth

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

I did this on Monday and the Garda at the airport before the security area was fine with it, at the very least.

How does it work? Is everyone questioned about their reason for travel? Do they ask for letters/paperwork to verify your reason?

yoshimitsu

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

GDPR specifically doesnt apply for law enforcement purposes so yes, they can, plain and simple.

They wont because missing an appointment happens and the burden of proof remains with the prosecution for one and two, I highly doubt the dentist is willing to travel to Ireland and give evidence in any case thats only going to result in (at best) a fine.

"GDPR specifically doesnt apply for law enforcement" is such a flawed statement, and not only grammatically. it is however OT so I wont get int a posting duel over it as I'm sure you'd love to do


What is relevant to this thread is that GDPR applies to the data submitted by clients of the dental clinic to the clinic. So if the dental clinic releases that information without a court order that specifies how that data will be used, who will see it and how/where/how long it will be stored for, they would get into deep poo poo in Spain.



For the reasons you mentioned, it would be very unlikely that law enforcement would go to the lengths of obtaining a court order for that information. Furthermore, every single clinic, of any medical specialty, anywhere in Spain would require a separate court order again highlighting the futility of this media "fearmongering" exercise.