Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

acequion

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Once restrictions start being lifted in April Irish people are not going to stand by and watch the rest of Europe enjoy their holibops.

If we have vulnerable and elderly vaccinated by May I expect summer holidays will be allowed again - maybe certain countries might be restricted (variants in South Africa as example).

But I'm going to Portugal in July - won't be vaccinated by then probably but if both countries have low levels and i can do the PCR test thing then I'd expect to be able to crack on.

I'd agree. This totally OTT media hype and also OTT €2.000 fine will run out of steam. The fine is very clearly part of level 5 so unless we're still in level 5 come summer, which is actually quite possible in this crazy country, then the only stumbling blocks to foreign travel will be the PCRs and home quarantine which is a fair trade off and really should keep everyone happy. Now there is the possibility that EU countries get into the super red list necessitating the hotel quarantine, but those of us who want /need to get away will just have to keep all fingers and toes crossed that won't happen.

MarkY91

acequion wrote: »

I'd agree. This totally OTT media hype and also OTT €2.000 fine will run out of steam. The fine is very clearly part of level 5 so unless we're still in level 5 come summer, which is actually quite possible in this crazy country, then the only stumbling blocks to foreign travel will be the PCRs and home quarantine which is a fair trade off and really should keep everyone happy. Now there is the possibility that EU countries get into the super red list necessitating the hotel quarantine, but those of us who want /need to get away will just have to keep all fingers and toes crossed that won't happen.

I don't see why a PCR test is an issue. Just book a Randox test and you'll get your results in less than 24 hours. €99

acequion

MarkY91 wrote: »

I don't see why a PCR test is an issue. Just book a Randox test and you'll get your results in less than 24 hours. €99

I didn't say it was an issue.

Now it's a hassle and an expense and it will deter families, no doubt there, so overall tourism and aviation don't look good for 2021. But for singles /couples and those who can afford it the PCR is a reasonable compromise and a lifeline to many who are desperate to travel.

Tenzor07

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Once restrictions start being lifted in April Irish people are not going to stand by and watch the rest of Europe enjoy their holibops..

Au Contraire, yes they are... A sizeable majority stayed at home or #staycationed in 2020... Only a small minority holidayed in the more popular European destinations as the rest did what Pope Holohan told them...and will abide by his decree again this year...

...along with the fact that a lot of countries may only allow vaccinated people to travel into their countries without facing quarantine restrictions...

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Au Contraire, yes they are... A sizeable majority stayed at home or #staycationed in 2020... Only a small minority holidayed in the more popular European destinations as the rest did what Pope Holohan told them...and will abide by his decree again this year...

Perhaps people didn't want to go away to countries where they also had corona virus and lockdowns and everything that comes with it?
I haven't been on an aeroplane for 14 months, which is completely unlike me. But, I don't see the point in travelling somewhere if I have to be restricted.

Tenzor07

bubblypop wrote: »

Perhaps people didn't want to go away to countries where they also had corona virus and lockdowns and everything that comes with it?
I haven't been on an aeroplane for 14 months, which is completely unlike me. But, I don't see the point in travelling somewhere if I have to be restricted.

Summer 2020, loads of places in Europe with less restrictions than Ireland, pubs, restaurants, cafe's, museums, swimming pools, nightclubs, retail shops, etc. etc. All open when they were shut here...
....the Irish public stayed home and did what they were told, don't expect any great awakening this year...

Donald Trump

yoshimitsu wrote: »

What is relevant to this thread is that GDPR applies to the data submitted by clients of the dental clinic to the clinic. So if the dental clinic releases that information without a court order that specifies how that data will be used, who will see it and how/where/how long it will be stored for, they would get into deep poo poo in Spain.

Article 23. You are wrong.





(As an aside, and irrelevant to the point, but if Jimmy Murphy rings up and makes a booking and doesn't show up and doesn't pay - then he's not a client anyway !)

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Summer 2020, loads of places in Europe with less restrictions than Ireland, pubs, restaurants, cafe's, museums, swimming pools, nightclubs, retail shops, etc. etc. All open when they were shut here...
....the Irish public stayed home and did what they were told, don't expect any great awakening this year...

I lived in the balkans a few years ago. The know for a fact there were very little in the way of restrictions there last year.
I wouldn't have been traveling there, riddled with covid!

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I lived in the balkans a few years ago. The know for a fact there were very little in the way of restrictions there last year.
I wouldn't have been traveling there, riddled with covid!

Balkans are doing well now. Serbia came in for some praise from the WHO a few days ago. And things, in the daytime, are pretty much normal except for mask wearing I understand

yoshimitsu

Donald Trump wrote: »

Article 23. You are wrong.





(As an aside, and irrelevant to the point, but if Jimmy Murphy rings up and makes a booking and doesn't show up and doesn't pay - then he's not a client anyway !)

"in so far as its provisions correspond to the rights and obligations provided for in Articles 12 to 22"


dental clinic cant release that information without a court order or its a violation of GDPR. court order may lists all the cases contained in Article 23 (public security, prevention of crime, etc) but it's neither the Guarda officer nor the dental clinic office manager that can make that assessment unilaterally



(you're aside shows you dont have a clue how GDPR works. being a client has nothing to do with it)

acequion

Tenzor07 wrote: »

...along with the fact that a lot of countries may only allow vaccinated people to travel into their countries without facing quarantine restrictions...

Where do you see this happening Tenzor?

TBH I don't see the southern countries taking that approach, this year in any case. I would imagine the PCR, even antigen, will suffice in the interim before vaccination certs might well be the norm from 2022 onwards.

Tenzor07

acequion wrote: »

Where do you see this happening Tenzor?
TBH I don't see the southern countries taking that approach, this year in any case. I would imagine the PCR, even antigen, will suffice in the interim before vaccination certs might well be the norm from 2022 onwards.

Well early days with Vaccine rollouts, the fact that some places like Greece and UK are creating Vaccine corridors...just like AUS did with NZ...
Not saying you won't get to travel to a particular country, just that you could be subject to either Negative PCR, mandatory quarantine, masks... or all 3...

Mandatory PCR will reduce numbers travelling on short holidays, especially if you need them to enter the country and upon arrival back home.. an extra €400 for a long weekend? Not a chance...
Longer 2+ week breaks in the one country will be the standard for 2021 at best..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/15/post-covid-tourism-hopes-buoyed-by-deal-between-greece-cyprus-and-israel

Donald Trump

yoshimitsu wrote: »

"in so far as its provisions correspond to the rights and obligations provided for in Articles 12 to 22"


dental clinic cant release that information without a court order or its a violation of GDPR. court order may lists all the cases contained in Article 23 (public security, prevention of crime, etc) but it's neither the Guarda officer nor the dental clinic office manager that can make that assessment unilaterally



(you're aside shows you dont have a clue how GDPR works. being a client has nothing to do with it)

You're the one who mentioned clients . It's there in your post. lol.


Section 70 of the Data Protection Act here allows Gardai to gather personal data. Section 41 allows the controller of that data to hold it for the same purposes.


How do you think it works - that nobody can identify anyone else? So we can never have any witnesses to a crime? Person runs into a dentist with a gun and steals the cash register and punches the dentist and the dentist reconises him as Jimmy from down the road but can't divulge his details under GDPR :pac:

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Well early days with Vaccine rollouts, the fact that some places like Greece and UK are creating Vaccine corridors...just like AUS did with NZ...
Not saying you won't get to travel to a particular country, just that you could be subject to either Negative PCR, mandatory quarantine, masks... or all 3...

Mandatory PCR will reduce numbers travelling on short holidays, especially if you need them to enter the country and upon arrival back home.. an extra €400 for a long weekend? Not a chance...
Longer 2+ week breaks in the one country will be the standard for 2021 at best..

I agree that the concept of e city break is dead for a good while. And I dont think that that is a bad thing at all. It'll be back to 1990s holidays - fewer and longer

Though definitely creates a divide between those that can work remotely from anywhere and take off to Italy for a month, and those that are limited to their 2 week slot

ninebeanrows

Yea at its most strict the most you’ll need this summer to go on holiday in Europe will be a negative PCR, hopefully a antigen will suffice as well.

It’ll be coming back to Ireland that’ll be the issue. You’ll be required a negative PCR AND self restricted movements at least... hopefully they can reduce to 10 days ... later in summer there’ll be pressure to reduce it to a negative test

sy_flembeck

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

GDPR specifically doesnt apply for law enforcement purposes so yes, they can, plain and simple.

This just in...

Not attending a dental appointment is not a criminal matter

Ray Donovan

I’m just curious about this whole dental appointment malarky.

Ok so say someone wants to go on their holidays so books a scale and polish in say Lanzarote 2 weeks before they go. (Let’s also give the person the benefit of the doubt and say they’ll turn up for it, in fact they prepay as dentist looked for it and they intend to get the cleaning done while out on holidays anyways).

So they get an email from dentist and it says person x has a dental appointment on June 30th at 2.30.

So person rocks up to airport and does the following conversation ensue:
Guard: What is the purpose of your travel?
Person X: It’s essential travel.
Guard: In what way?
Person X: I have a medical procedure tomorrow.
Guard: Have you documentation to prove this?
Person X: Yes I have. (Shows guard email)
Guard: Stay Safe on your travels

fran38

Ray Donovan wrote: »

I’m just curious about this whole dental appointment malarky.

Ok so say someone wants to go on their holidays so books a scale and polish in say Lanzarote 2 weeks before they go. (Let’s also give the person the benefit of the doubt and say they’ll turn up for it, in fact they prepay as dentist looked for it and they intend to get the cleaning done while out on holidays anyways).

So they get an email from dentist and it says person x has a dental appointment on June 30th at 2.30.

So person rocks up to airport and does the following conversation ensue:
Guard: What is the purpose of your travel?
Person X: It’s essential travel.
Guard: In what way?
Person X: I have a medical procedure tomorrow.
Guard: Have you documentation to prove this?
Person X: Yes I have. (Shows guard email)
Guard: Stay Safe on your travels

I reckon a scale and polish won't be classed as essential as it wont break the bank to get one done here, so why go over there to get it done? That'll be the gards view id say. As opposed to dental work costing in the thousands here and finding it cheaper on the continent.

Johnny_Fontane

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Sorry if this has been answered before (I have looked....).

My mother (Irish) and partner (German) in their 60s and 70s dont have a house in Ireland any more (they do in Spain), but have been living with family here since Christmas. They dont have Spanish residency as they have only been over there about 2 years.

They are looking to return to their house in Spain, but I am not sure that this would be classified as Essential travel.

I think they should stay, but they want to go back. Are they looking at a €2k fine if they turn up at the airport in March?

Ok well first off, under Spanish law to are required to register within 90 days of arrival and a resident. There are fines for not doing so (initially they tried to deport people but the eu intervened).

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Thanks for this. Would it be worth their while printing out the statute and having to hand when they meet the fuzz in the airport? I think that will freak them out the most, being approached and having to explain their situation.

Second, the 'fuzz' have access to the law you will be glad to know and aren't in the slightest bit fazed by encountering bar stool experts. They encounter far worse daily.

sy_flembeck

sy_flembeck wrote: »

This just in...

Not attending a dental appointment is not a criminal matter

This just replied: it's fraud

yoshimitsu

yoshimitsu wrote: »

"GDPR specifically doesnt apply for law enforcement" is such a flawed statement, and not only grammatically. it is however OT so I wont get int a posting duel over it as I'm sure you'd love to do


What is relevant to this thread is that GDPR applies to the data submitted by clients of the dental clinic to the clinic. So if the dental clinic releases that information without a court order that specifies how that data will be used, who will see it and how/where/how long it will be stored for, they would get into deep poo poo in Spain.



For the reasons you mentioned, it would be very unlikely that law enforcement would go to the lengths of obtaining a court order for that information. Furthermore, every single clinic, of any medical specialty, anywhere in Spain would require a separate court order again highlighting the futility of this media "fearmongering" exercise.

Sigh, read section 41 (b).

It's in black and white. Here, I'll help you out:

"41. Without prejudice to the processing of personal data for a purpose other than the purpose for which the data has been collected which is lawful under the Data Protection Regulation, the processing of personal data and special categories of personal data for a purpose other than the purpose for which the data has been collected shall be lawful to the extent that such processing is necessary and proportionate for the purposes—

(a) of preventing a threat to national security, defence or public security,

(b) of preventing, detecting, investigating or prosecuting criminal offences,"

The simple fact is you are wrong and so are the two that thanked your post.

Out of curiosity, how do you think Gardai obtain cctv footage?

Del Griffith

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

This just replied: it's fraud

LOL

Del Griffith

fran38 wrote: »

I reckon a scale and polish won't be classed as essential as it wont break the bank to get one done here, so why go over there to get it done? That'll be the gards view id say. As opposed to dental work costing in the thousands here and finding it cheaper on the continent.

It doesn't matter what it is.

"Gardaí believe they also do not have the power to stop more people travelling for dentist or medical appointments if they are able to show genuine evidence of the appointment.

“The law is quite clear. Travel for medical and dentist reasons is allowed. Full stop.” a garda said. "

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-cannot-stop-irish-holiday-makers-travelling-for-dentist-appointments-1.4484599?mode=amp

The idea of being charged with fraud for missing a dental appointment is one of the more outlandishly ridiculous ideas, even now as ridiculous is the norm.

yoshimitsu

Donald Trump wrote: »

How do you think it works - that nobody can identify anyone else? So we can never have any witnesses to a crime? Person runs into a dentist with a gun and steals the cash register and punches the dentist and the dentist reconises him as Jimmy from down the road but can't divulge his details under GDPR :pac:

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Sigh, read section 41 (b).

It's in black and white. Here, I'll help you out:

"41. Without prejudice to the processing of personal data for a purpose other than the purpose for which the data has been collected which is lawful under the Data Protection Regulation, the processing of personal data and special categories of personal data for a purpose other than the purpose for which the data has been collected shall be lawful to the extent that such processing is necessary and proportionate for the purposes—

(a) of preventing a threat to national security, defence or public security,

(b) of preventing, detecting, investigating or prosecuting criminal offences,"

The simple fact is you are wrong and so are the two that thanked your post.

Out of curiosity, how do you think Gardai obtain cctv footage?

Those above are all good reasons... to convince a judge, to obtain a court order, to legally request that information. This is what I said:



"So if the dental clinic releases that information without a court order that specifies how that data will be used, who will see it and how/where/how long it will be stored for, they would get into deep poo poo in Spain."

I didnt say that Guardai cannot obtain that info, simply that they cant obtain without providing proper justification that it is for one of the reasons detailed above.


Do you think officer Patty O'Brien can call up any clinic in Spain (or anywhere else) and just say "hand over your clients'/prospective clients' data, by the powers vested in me under article 23 of GDPR!!"? :D:D You need a court order; and you need to put a bit more tobacco in whatever it is that you're smoking



Do you think Patty O'Brien can call up any establishment asking for CCTV footage without any form of justification, just a phone call saying he's law enforcement? :D:D


How about officer Patty O'Brien unilaterally deciding he wants the registration details, pseudonyms, IP addresses of anybody that posts to the "Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread", because he personally suspects it may lead to "preventing, detecting, investigating or prosecuting criminal offences".

Do you think all that is required is a phone call to Boards.ie repeating Niner's comment "GDPR specifically doesnt apply for law enforcement purposes [...] plain and simple! Hand over the data at once!" :D:D You guys watch way too much bad TV



Back to why this is relevant to the travel thread: This whole story of Roberta Beccaris, office manager of a dental clinic in Tenerife, volunteering to hand over data belonging to clients/prospective clients to the Gardai is a witch hunt. Guardai may be able to obtain a court order for that establishment but try replicating it for the 1000s of clinics (dental or otherwise) in 1000s of holiday destinations across Spain... again not impossible but v v unlikely.

A better use of all that human effort would be to set up a functioning domestic contact tracing system which is line 1, page 1, chapter 1 of the "how to deal with a pandemic" playbook (a book written by China, S. Korea, Japan who have dealt with epidemics before) and instead, 12 months into it, we still haven't been able to put one together.



"...but it's the people going to Tenerife/Lanzarote jeopardizing our lives and our freedoms!! Look over there people, don't look over here!!"

Gardai do not need a court order for the type of information covered under gdpr.
They can merely apply to the organisation, stating that they require the information for one of the particular reasons given, and that it is requested under section 41 whatever.

So, while I don't believe gardai will have the slightest inclination to do that with dentists in the canaries, you are wrong and your legal knowledge is lacking!

Also, wrt CCTV, they can and do collect footage from everywhere that has it, if it has evidence of a crime. It's called evidence and does not need any kind of court order.

Happydays2020

ninebeanrows wrote: »

Yea at its most strict the most you’ll need this summer to go on holiday in Europe will be a negative PCR, hopefully a antigen will suffice as well.

It’ll be coming back to Ireland that’ll be the issue. You’ll be required a negative PCR AND self restricted movements at least... hopefully they can reduce to 10 days ... later in summer there’ll be pressure to reduce it to a negative test

The agreed list will be back. There will be the same recommendations against travel (and PCRs required if things change) but if Ireland is Green and so is Italy, I don’t see the Government being able to do anything.

dmcsweeney

Happydays2020 wrote: »

The agreed list will be back. There will be the same recommendations against travel (and PCRs required if things change) but if Ireland is Green and so is Italy, I don’t see the Government being able to do anything.

I hope you're right! Italy booked for July. I'd get over the tests, and the home quarantine/test after 5 days, but not paying an extra €2k to get out. I assume this will be gone?

RobitTV

The British and Spanish are getting ready for summer tourism - May 1 could become the D-Day for Mallorca and the British travel industry, according to reports this morning Link

According to a report in The Guardian The Save our Summer (SOS) group is calling on the government to ensure holidays at home and abroad are possible from 1 May and guarantees that anyone booking through its members will be entitled to either a refund or a change of date for their holiday if travel is cancelled or not possible due to the government’s Covid-19 restrictions.

The President of the Mallorcan Hoteliers Federation told the Bulletin: We must be ready for when Britons can start travelling to the island.

Local hoteliers have even offered to buy the vaccine for their staff so that they can open sooner rather than later.

Happydays2020

dmcsweeney wrote: »

I hope you're right! Italy booked for July. I'd get over the tests, and the home quarantine/test after 5 days, but not paying an extra €2k to get out. I assume this will be gone?

I just don’t think it would be sustainable to keep it if over 65’s are fully vaccinated as are the most vulnerable (90% decrease in risk) and assuming at that point the cases are low (here and there).

The freedom of movement provisions are core rights.

dmcsweeney

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I just don’t think it would be sustainable to keep it if over 65’s are fully vaccinated as are not vulnerable (90% decrease in risk) and assuming at that point the cases are low (here and there).

The freedom of movement provisions are core rights.

Unless the power hungry Tony H and the media force the governments hand again. That's the big danger. They want us shut down for years.


From breakingnews.ie this morning; People going on holidays are being warned they face prison and a criminal record if they continue to travel abroad.

Again, travelling abroad on holidays is not illegal?? Is this just for breach of non essential travel within Irlenad?