Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

poisonated

I’ve said it before but it’s becoming more and more true. I’m embarrassed to be Irish at this stage. Our leaders are disasters In my opinion but I know deep down that Sinn Fein wouldn’t be any better.

theguzman

theguzman wrote: »

Good luck to you, after all this I will never look at refugees or migrants in the same light again, those of us who have escaped are now doing so, literally we would be prisoners in Ireland now to a corrupt Government using an epidemic virus to implement totalitarianism on the people in the name of a virus which has killed less than 1 in 1,000. All I can say is shame on the people left behind who accept this, what more will they put up with, happy to accept €350 blood money whilst every personal freedom we hold dear is stripped away in the name of virus which is very much under control and under retreat.

What sort of way did you look at refugees and migrants before now??

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

You should read this article outlining the status in other European countries https://www.dw.com/en/european-travel-restrictions-non-essential-travel-curbed/a-56350272



If you just read posts on here, you get a serious case of "grass is greener".

I have good friends in Valencia, know it well, and know exactly what the situation is, thanks. Also have a flat and family in London and so know at first hand what life is like there. Am well travelled and don’t have to read anything on an anonymous discussion board to educate myself as to what life is like in other places

MadYaker

Deleted User wrote: »

I have good friends in Valencia, know it well, and know exactly what the situation is, thanks. Also have a flat and family in London and so know at first hand what life is like there. Am well travelled and don’t have to read anything on an anonymous discussion board to educate myself as to what life is like in other places

Where is this covid restriction free mecca you're moving to might I ask?

Del Griffith

gozunda wrote: »

I think you may need to drop a bit of the the hyperbole and read the comment linking details of other EU countries restrictions above yours and the fairly strict restrictions now in place right across Europe.

I'm in Malta right now. Believe me, the grass is greener, a lot greener.

gozunda wrote: »

Also what it has to say about Ireland and the reason why there are restrictions here ...

"The situation in Ireland is particularly dramatic."

.. they got that right.

gozunda wrote: »

Remembering that its not just about deaths but our health services being overrun and stopping this happening.

If that's the case you'll be happy to agree that Ireland and everywhere else should immediately open 100% up as soon as the vulnerable are vaccinated?

As they account for something like 95% of covid hospitalisations, after they are vaccinated it is well, well within the capacity of the health service to deal with any instances of the highly unlikely event of someone healthy needing medical attention for a case of Covid 19.

Reminder that at one point the services coped when the country had 8,000 daily cases. We're now already at 10% of that and likely to be at 2% of that in March. Yet we're told restrictions to stay in place even with a vaccine and practically no one at risk from serious consequences of the virus.

So why are we looking at restrictions now into 2022? How can the travel fine and the likes be justified this summer?

TobyHolmes

TobyHolmes wrote: »

I am very to the book about the rules - but I am finding the way Ireland has reacted is VERY extreme when you compare it to other countries. (yes New Zealand blah blah I mean look at New Zealand lockdown not a hardship - you have a whole coven of lord of the ring elves down the road) In the US people can still travel once they are tested and most towns/cities you can still have your day to day life albeit with some restrictions. The UK is already talking about opening up. Meanwhile the Irish media is saying even staycations in another 6 months not guaranteed. WTF are they trying to do to our mental health. Yes it is not a concerted effort to do that - that is not the intention - but think about how you are presenting this to the public. the government could release statements to give us hope but instead rely on the media to do their dirty work. Give us some hope - something to look forward to - instead of everything being so bleak all the time.

You're right. There is something chillingly sinister about the reaction of the Irish state and the direction it has taken. There is no opposition in the parliament or the media. There is no hope. The subtle turn to faux-benevolent tyranny is staggering. The fact that most people are "ok" with it and don't see it for what it is, is also staggering.

It's like most people genuinely don't know that much of the rest of the world doesn't have restrictions like this any more. RTE takes a lot of blame for this. It has always been utterly parochial with abysmal international reportage. It has a decent investigative wing, whose remit is limited to "informer" type stories. It doesn't occur to it to do some investigative reporting on how countries like the UAE or Spain are handling the pandemic today and then critically ask why Ireland is where it is, vs. those countries. I put this down to the brain drain factor - any journalist with above average intelligence or skill has left Ireland to work in media abroad. They wouldn't want to stay at RTE.

Those few people who do realize that we are an anomaly are mostly willing to accept what's happened on the basis that the health service wouldn't cope. There is no sense of perspective, no sense of proportionality, no sense of critical thinking.

There is an old George Carlin stand-up routine in which he asserted that there are no rights, as "rights aren't rights if they can be taken away...all we have - all we have ever had - are a set of temporary privileges."

When I'm in Ireland, sometimes I'd see the great Irish air corps flying overhead - one or two WW2 era aircraft, not unlike an old Spitfire.

You'd wonder how Ireland would react in the event of a serious war among the great powers or even middling powers with a conventional, cyber or nuclear element. I mean, a pandemic is a war on health, right? And our health service isn't up to spec, so our TDs, who are all of the highest caliber, take away our fundamental, ancient privileges and no one of consequence protests.

Now in a wartime situation, our defense forces aren't exactly up to spec, so I'd expect a similar deprivation of privileges and more fatalism to hold sway.

You might recall the Icelandic volcano that erupted in 2010 which temporarily grounded aircraft. That could have been much much worse - an 1816 year- without-a-summer affair of mass food failures over the whole planet. How would our government have responded in such a scenario? These types of events have happened throughout history. We are part of history. Real disasters that would leave Covid-19 in the dust can and might happen and we are seeing now how Ireland would fare in such a scenario. Our first world country status with our impressive GDP and HDI metrics are a paper crown. It would be Black '47 again, but it would play out over the internet this time 'round.

My realization is that we have a weak, weak state. Kudos to those who appreciated this fact earlier than I did. Ireland is unable to protect its citizens. So it hides behind excuses and diversionary tactics to conceal its impotence. And so the State deprives the individual of rights, to pin the blame on the individual rather than the inadequacy of the organs of our State. Another historical example would be the impotence of the state in the face of the catholic church, where the mothers' and babies' rights were sacrificed to hide the fact that the state would not, or could not, stand up to Rome and dogmatic Catholicism.

I'm not sure what this means for me personally, long term. I have resources (for now; who knows when they too might be appropriated). I might well look at owning a small property in another jurisdiction, a bolt hole if you will. I think I will also buy a generator for my home, a weapon for home defense, and will keep a store of fresh water, medical supplies, and food. Who knows what disasters may befall the world over the next 40 years - but one thing you can be utterly sure of: whatever happens, the Irish government won't be coming to your rescue.

And if you think I'm insane, try to remember my points the next time you face a Garda at a checkpoint stopping you for having the temerity to venture 5km beyond your home, or threaten you with jail for refusing to be interned when you are perfectly healthy.

Jaysis
Some hysteria in here last night....
Relax lads, couple more months it'll be grand

And there are plenty of restrictions worldwide. I have family and friends too in many countries, all have restrictions of some degree!!

Happydays2020

bubblypop wrote: »

Jaysis
Some hysteria in here last night....
Relax lads, couple more months it'll be grand

And there are plenty of restrictions worldwide. I have family and friends too in many countries, all have restrictions of some degree!!

Perhaps but this is the reaction to the lack of hope/negativity from media and politicians. They are not getting things right. People need hope. Highly compliant people are asking when will this end.

RobitTV

I think some people are feeling lost and hopeless because there are many people in our society who aren't lucky enough to have that close family around them or they don't have a relationship or kids. I see people on social media in lockdown and they have family members or have their partner. People who have been feeling isolated since last year find that very hard to stomach. Maybe your close friends have moved away since last year and they aren't around anymore. There are so many reasons and different scenarios.

I just want to say to everyone think of those people who may be feeling lonely and might be feeling increasingly depressed. Many people might be discovering for the first time that there isn't much for them in Ireland anymore. A change of scenery and a change of perspective might help that person.

I just wouldn't rush to judge any individual without really understanding their personal circumstances. Life in Ireland will eventually improve. But a deeper sense of loneliness and isolation can continue for a long time afterwards.

Think of all the people in your own personal life that might be struggling. Some people wake up daily and paint a smile on their face and act normal around the few people they see.

RobitTV

RobitTV wrote: »

I think some people are feeling lost and hopeless because there are many people in our society who aren't lucky enough to have that close family around them or they don't have a relationship or kids. I see people on social media in lockdown and they have family members or have their partner. People who have been feeling isolated since last year find that very hard to stomach. Maybe your close friends have moved away since last year and they aren't around anymore. There are so many reasons and different scenarios.

I just want to say to everyone think of those people who may be feeling lonely and might be feeling increasingly depressed. Many people might be discovering for the first time that there isn't much for them in Ireland anymore. A change of scenery and a change of perspective might help that person.

I just wouldn't rush to judge any individual without really understanding their personal circumstances. Life in Ireland will eventually improve. But a deeper sense of loneliness and isolation can continue for a long time afterwards.

Think of all the people in your own personal life that might be struggling. Some people wake up daily and paint a smile on their face and act normal around the few people they see.

All true and in my case, I am moved to anger because so much of this suffering is unnecessary and disproportionate.

I'm very lucky in all this. I live in a country where life is almost fully normal, despite 2-3k cases per day. The weather is sunny and warm. The schools are open. I'm with my wife and kids. We both have jobs and our income has actually increased. We are financially secure. Neither of us got covid and we are both vaccinated.

But I have family members in Ireland who are lonesome and struggling. I know people who have been out of work for a prolonged period due to this, in jobs such as hospitality. Hospitality has been open where I live since July last year.

Finally on the travel topic specifically, I would ask people to also look at this from the outside in -- i.e. the case of Irish people living abroad. If you are Irish in the UAE or Brazil for example, you will soon no longer be able to enter your own country without paying a small fortune and being imprisoned in a 'centre' (even if you can prove that you are perfectly healthy and are fully vaccinated).

Moreover, if any Irish person abroad has a non-EEA spouse, the DoJ has stopped issuing type c and d visas. Meaning said spouse cannot accompany their Irish spouse and any Irish citizen children to Ireland if the family needed to go there at urgent notice. If the Irish spouse were to die suddenly abroad (such as from a car crash / cancer / heart attack), the non-EEA spouse would not be able to bring the Irish children to Ireland or the body home. If a war were to break out in their region of the world, the spouse could not evacuate with the Irish nationals, due to the DoJ's current visa policy. So, if you're Irish and live in Taiwan with your Filipino wife and young Irish children and China makes a threatening move and you want to evacuate to Ireland with your family, mummy would have to be left behind while the bombs are falling, with no end to this policy in sight. This is contemptible beyond imagination.

faceman

gozunda wrote: »

Where are you getting that from? "Most people"? Even in countries (such as New Zealand for example) with similar restrictions on travel - supply chains are largely unaffected and domestic transmission certainly seems to be controlled (and yes I know Ireland is not New Zealand btw). There are also permit systems for retuning residents afaik.

Media polls are showing the public thirst for it, as are Prime Time, Joe Duffy and Boards.ie :P

We need to stop the comparisons with New Zealand. Its a largely self sufficient economy who imports arrive on ships filled to the brim with contains rather than trucks on ferries each with individual containers. The virus doesn't discriminate between holiday makers in Tenerife and lorry drives in Rosslare.

Im not too familiar with a permit system in NZ, perhaps thats the case but I didn't believe it was. There is certainly no talk of it in Ireland and it looks like we will have one of the harshest quarantines in the western world.

wrote:

I think those who would wish to see less "I'm away on my holidays, fek yiz" aren't calling for travel to be banned completely at all - just that existing restrictions on travel etc are observed. We seem to have a cohort who don't believe in any restrictions or at least they don't apply to them personally or for some strange reason seems to believe that no where else has restrictions. Its just bizarre tbh.

We are on the same page, now is not the time for holidays. But it is a temporary ban that should be removed in a few months. IN the meantime though Ireland appears to be taken an all or nothing with the hotel quarantine which no doubt, will be extended to other countries. I fear that the nonsense talk of dentist trips hiding holidays will result in more EU countries being added to the category 2 list with no basis in science. Ireland will most likely keep the measure in place until 2022. While its a major deterrent for non essential travel, people who are travelling for essential reasons, family etc will pay the price needlessly.

And again we cant forget that we will allow confirmed cases and their close contacts roam free in Ireland without penalty or any checks to make sure they are quarantining.

They can, and no doubt would, issue emergency visas in such situations

faceman

bubblypop wrote: »

They can, and no doubt would, issue emergency visas in such situations

We had a poster earlier in that thread trying to get an emergency visa for his spouse and having terrible difficultly in doing so. Im not sure he was able to do so.

We also had posters with the balls to suggest that he shouldnt be coming to Ireland with his partner and family

faceman

faceman wrote: »

We had a poster earlier in that thread trying to get an emergency visa for his spouse and having terrible difficultly in doing so. Im not sure he was able to do so.

We also had posters with the balls to suggest that he shouldnt be coming to Ireland with his partner and family

I think it may be the same poster, it was in case an emergency came up at home if I remember correctly.
It's a sh1t situation, but it is workable should the worst happen.

scouserstation

bubblypop wrote: »

Jaysis
Some hysteria in here last night....
Relax lads, couple more months it'll be grand

And there are plenty of restrictions worldwide. I have family and friends too in many countries, all have restrictions of some degree!!

Yes there are restrictions in other countries but most of these countries are already planning on coming out of these restrictions and opening back up, and your probably right it could be grand in a couple of months so why should we keep everybody incarcerated on this island when cases have come down and we have the most vulnerable vaccinated?

Donald Trump

faceman wrote: »

And again we cant forget that we will allow confirmed cases and their close contacts roam free in Ireland without penalty or any checks to make sure they are quarantining.

Yeah but that's not true. You keep repeating that over and over again. And doing it many times doesn't make it true.


Please tell us what these penalties are for roaming free in these paradises where they have no restrictions on anyone.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

They can, and no doubt would, issue emergency visas in such situations

No doubt?
How would they issue a visa in a situation where war has broken out overnight? This nearly happened in the Middle East on 2/3 January 2020. Do you really think the visa office over there would be dutifully processing visa applications in combat zones? Don’t dismiss this concern. It’s a real concern and if you think the visa office has a policy in place for just such situations, you’re wrong. You need a visa to board a plane to leave and visas don’t magically appear overnight.

Similarly for bringing kids to Ireland after the death of an Irish spouse. The amount of paperwork involved in this is unreal. It takes time. It is stressful. It is the last thing a spouse would need to navigate at such a time. So why not just issue visas to the spouses of Irish nationals as per normal pre-pandemic?

Donald Trump

Deleted User wrote: »

No doubt?
How would they issue a visa in a situation where war has broken out overnight? This nearly happened in the Middle East on 2/3 January 2020. Do you really think the visa office over there would be dutifully processing visa applications in combat zones? Don’t dismiss this concern. It’s a real concern and if you think the visa office has a policy in place for just such situations, you’re wrong. You need a visa to board a plane to leave and visas don’t magically appear overnight.

Similarly for bringing kids to Ireland after the death of an Irish spouse. The amount of paperwork involved in this is unreal. It takes time. It is stressful. It is the last thing a spouse would need to navigate at such a time. So why not just issue visas to the spouses of Irish nationals as per normal pre-pandemic?

What are you going on about war in the middle east for? Do you want the civil service to be posting junior staff to warzones now?



People need to stop taking things for granted and to think ahead. It's all well and good to float through life appreciating nothing, but in reality you should be assessing what you have and how to keep it. The rules are well known in advance. If you want to obtain X, look up the rules and follow them.



If children have an Irish parent, they are Irish by birthright.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

What are you going on about war in the middle east for? Do you want the civil service to be posting junior staff to warzones now?

Do you know how many Irish people live in the UAE, Bahrain, Oman and KSA? Do you know that a war almost broke out between the USA and Iran in early January last year, quite suddenly and without warning? Do you know that senior Iranians officials implicitly threatened to destroy Dubai in the event of a war?

Do you know that Irish people live in and around the South China Sea and Taiwan, and that these areas are potential conflict flashpoints?

Irish people live all over the world and are married to people from all over the world, and sometimes the places where they live experience wars or natural disasters, necessitating immediate evacuation to Ireland, where the family's assets and extended family are located.

People need to stop taking things for granted and to think ahead.

Says the man scoffing at me for seeking an escape strategy for my family should war envelop the region where I live.

It's all well and good to float through life appreciating nothing, but in reality you should be assessing what you have and how to keep it. The rules are well known in advance. If you want to obtain X, look up the rules and follow them.

Who are you pontificating to? The rules were well known and everyone followed them (i.e. making sure one's spouse always had a visa to Ireland). Then one fine day, they were suspended and NOTHING has been put in place to guide people on how to do things differently. When you contact the visa office, they apologize and deflect but offer no actionable advice.

But according to you, I should nonetheless plan ahead in this yawning policy vacuum. Perhaps I should contact a smuggler who can traffic my wife into Ireland in the back of a lorry.

If children have an Irish parent, they are Irish by birthright.

Which is of no use to them when they need their rights most if they are minors and their sole surviving parent is refused leave to enter Ireland for the next year, as the statements of our politicians would seem to imply.

faceman

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yeah but that's not true. You keep repeating that over and over again. And doing it many times doesn't make it true.


Please tell us what these penalties are for roaming free in these paradises where they have no restrictions on anyone.

If you aren't detaining, monitoring or checking on confirmed cases and their close contacts, how are you supposed to fine them?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-failure-to-self-isolate-central-to-ireland-s-coronavirus-control-problem-1.4471226

Happydays2020

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Have a good read of this: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52020DC0499 and come back to me about Freedom of Movement. You may have a legal qualification or not but you are certainly not an EU constitutional expert.

If Ireland continues to restrict freedom of movement to the EU even when we relax things domestically we will not have a leg to stand on. Controls disproportionate to the risk will not stand up either.

Well first up, do you know understand what the 5km limit applies to or do you remain ignorant?

Second and again, read the constitution and tell me what's being breached. This will be the third time of asking.

Fyi, the right to freedom of movement comes with a little 'and' afterwards. You know why? Because it doesn't apply to simple holidays. You have the right to move AND RESIDE in any eu nation within that nations regulations. You absolutely do not have an automatic right to holiday abroad within any constitution.

You have that right under eu agreements and again, such agreements are subject to a nations own rules and regulations. There's multiple nations that have restricted travel. Not just Ireland

gozunda

Del Griffith wrote: »

I'm in Malta right now. Believe me, the grass is greener, a lot greener.

Is it? On Malta ...

New COVID-19 cases rose to 199 on Wednesday, the highest they have been since 202 new cases were reported on February 9.The new cases were detected from 3,207 swab tests, resulting in a relatively high positivity rate of 6.2 per cent.

The positivity rate is a measure of the proportion of swab tests which test positive, and is used as an indicator of how widespread infection is. 

Charmaine Gauci, Superintendent of Public Health, told Times of Malta that numbers of new cases are continuing to fluctuate and the moving average is 156.It was clear, she said, that there is ongoing transmission, with the variant having an impact on the number of cases.

She appealed to everyone to avoid crowds, stick to their households and follow restrictions.

 https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/covid-19-cases-climb-to-199-another-death-reported.852158

Del Griffith wrote: »

"The situation in Ireland is particularly dramatic."

.. they got that right.

Of course it was feking ' dramatic'- on January 11th Ireland’s had one of the world’s highest covid-19 infection rates

Del Griffith wrote: »

If that's the case you'll be happy to agree that Ireland and everywhere else should immediately open 100% up as soon as the vulnerable are vaccinated?

As they account for something like 95% of covid hospitalisations, after they are vaccinated it is well, well within the capacity of the health service to deal with any instances of the highly unlikely event of someone healthy needing medical attention for a case of Covid 19.

I might be 'happy. But rather than considering personal preferences- here's an idea how about lets actually see what happens when everyone is vaccinated

And btw current stats show that aporox 50% of covid related hospitalisations are in the under 65s ...

Del Griffith wrote: »

Reminder that at one point the services coped when the country had 8,000 daily cases. We're now already at 10% of that and likely to be at 2% of that in March. Yet we're told restrictions to stay in place even with a vaccine and practically no one at risk from serious consequences of the virus. So why are we looking at restrictions now into 2022? How can the travel fine and the likes be justified this summer?

See the ****efest that "meaningful Christmas" had on infections rates here and then reconsider the above

Enjoy your holiday..

Del Griffith

gozunda wrote: »

Is it? On Malta ...

 https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/covid-19-cases-climb-to-199-another-death-reported.852158

Thanks for that. I am aware already, having Googled it (I needed to as there's no negative news bombardment here). It's ranged between 120 and 200 here since December. And guess what? No lockdown.

Everything except nightclubs is open. No movement restrictions of any kind.

Why aren't cases through the roof and hospitals collapsing? The world seems to still be turning, last I checked.

gozunda wrote: »

Of course it was feking ' dramatic'- on January 11th Ireland’s had one of the world’s highest covid-19 infection rates

And again, the hospitals have coped with 10x the number of daily cases that Ireland is facing at the moment. So what is the current hysteria about? Tenerife dentists?

gozunda wrote: »

I might be 'happy. But rather than considering personal preferences- here's an idea how about lets actually see what happens when everyone is vaccinated

Cool, so your plan is literally to lock down until 2022 or beyond, no matter how long it takes, to vaccinate the entire population?

Despite the well documented mammoth costs, both social and financial, the business closures, the damage to education, etc.

And critically - despite the fact that 98% of the people outside the vulnerable brackets have mild to no symptoms at all?

Does that seem reasonable to you - locking down an entire country/world to vaccinate people that are not in any danger?

By all means, vaccinate the lot, but locking down to do so beyond the vulnerable is completely OTT, bordering on CUCKOO.

It's plain to see RTE have done serious damage when people don't see any issue with such a plan.

Bobeagleburger

Is Valencia Covid and restriction free or is it very relaxed? Doubt it. Not knocking the person who is heading away, but for the vast vast majority of people with families/jobs/ties to Ireland this isn't even an option. Definitely a case of grass isn't always greener I think.


Meanwhile, things are improving here. February is nearly over,it's getting warmer and evenings are brighter. Plus the vaccine is already making a difference in over 85's.

faceman

6 wrote: »

Is Valencia Covid and restriction free or is it very relaxed? Doubt it. Not knocking the person who is heading away, but for the vast vast majority of people with families/jobs/ties to Ireland this isn't even an option. Definitely a case of grass isn't always greener I think.


Meanwhile, things are improving here. February is nearly over,it's getting warmer and evenings are brighter. Plus the vaccine is already making a difference in over 85's.

Valencia and the Valenciana region is in a defacto lockdown of sorts. All retail is open but hospitality, sports and leisure is closed. THere's no 5km restriction but you have to stay in your city/municipality over the weekend. Masks are mandatory outdoors. Aside from obvious reasons, no household visitors and you can only meet one person from outside your household outdoors.

Rates have dropped dramatically, overall a little worse than Ireland but the rates seem to have fallen quicker here in a shorter period. There will be a slow reopening some time in March. They're very good with communication here.

faceman

Travel now accounts for just 0.5% of cases in Ireland while close contacts (unrelated to travel) accounts for 50.7%

Travellers are subjected to draconian measures
Close contacts are not subject to any measures at all

Are we learning yet Ireland?

gozunda

Del Griffith wrote: »

Thanks for that. I am aware already, having Googled it (I needed to as there's no negative news bombardment here). It's ranged between 120 and 200 here since December. And guess what? No lockdown.
Everything except nightclubs is open. No movement restrictions of any kind.

Why aren't cases through the roof and hospitals collapsing? The world seems to still be turning, last I checked.

I dunno looking at the stats Malta - despite having a tiny population don't look so good.

https://i.imgflip.com/4yiqmr.jpg

https://i.imgflip.com/4yiupk.jpg

Why have the hospitals not exploded there? I dunno but I reckon - it might just have something to do with having been ranked number five in the World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

And there are most certainly some restrictions in Malta. The article mentions that. Id suggest you maybe Google it as well.

Del Griffith wrote: »

And again, the hospitals have coped with 10x the number of daily cases that Ireland is facing at the moment. So what is the current hysteria about? Tenerife dentists?

Yes the system coped - just. We don't want to go back to that situation again of having the world's highest rate of infection

What 'hysteria' btw? I reckon you were listening to way too much Joe Duffy or whatever. But yeah there were Some eejits pretending to have dentist Appointments in order to break travel restrictions. I don't feel sorry for them for sure.

Del Griffith wrote: »

Cool, so your plan is literally to lock down until 2022 or beyond, no matter how long it takes, to vaccinate the entire population?

Despite the well documented mammoth costs, both social and financial, the business closures, the damage to education, etc.

And critically - despite the fact that 98% of the people outside the vulnerable brackets have mild to no symptoms at all?

Does that seem reasonable to you - locking down an entire country/world to vaccinate people that are not in any danger?

By all means, vaccinate the lot, but locking down to do so beyond the vulnerable is completely OTT, bordering on CUCKOO.

Jeez drop the hyperbole will ya. And I hate to point it out to you - that was your suggestion. Not mine. But not trowing out all restrictions does not mean that restrictions can't or won't be rolled back btw whilst vaccinations rates are increasing. But yes I'm in agreement with vaccination. But sure as you an expert in infectious disease control and able to make 'Cuckoo' diagnosis then you better apply quickly for a job with the government in Malta. I'm sure they'd be delighted with your apparent expertise in the field of ornithology

It's plain to see RTE have done serious damage when people don't see any issue with such a plan.

Is it? I personally don't listen / watch RTE. Maybe you should have done the same?

Del Griffith

gozunda wrote: »

I dunno looking at the stats Malta don't look so good.

https://i.imgflip.com/4yiqmr.jpg

https://imgflip.com/memegenerator

You don't seem to get it. No one cares about daily cases here (except you, evidently). I've been here since September, it's been pretty much the same the entire time - cases move up and down, it has no effect on day to day life here besides masks everywhere. My clubbing days are over, and everything else is open.

I went to the cinema Friday, meal and a few pints on Saturday. You should try it. Oh no, wait..

gozunda wrote: »

Why have the hospitals not exploded there? I dunno but I reckon - it might just have something to do with having been ranked number five in the World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Damn those pesky functioning health care systems, ruining a good lockdown..

gozunda wrote: »

And there are most certainly some restrictions in Malta. The article mentions that. Id suggest you maybe Google it as well.

I've been living here for 4 months, believe me I know more about the situation here than you.

gozunda wrote: »

Yes the system copped - just. We don't want to go back to that situation again. What 'hysteria' btw? I reckon you were listening to way too much Joe Duffy or whatever. But yeah there were Some eejits pretending to have dentist Appointments in order to break travel restrictions. I don't feel sorry for them for sure.

Who's talking about going back to that situation? I disagreed with you saying we should wait to vaccinate everybody, even those that don't need it.

I would like to see Ireland open up (fully) after the vulnerable are done.

gozunda wrote: »

Jeez drop the hyperbole will ya. And I hate to point it out to you - that was your suggestion. Not mine. But not trowing out all restrictions does not mean that restrictions can't or won't be rolled back btw whilst vaccinations rates are increasing. But yes I'm in agreement with vaccination. But sure as you an expert in infectious disease control and able to make 'Cuckoo' diagnosis then you better apply quickly for a job with the government in Malta. I'm sure they'd be delighted with your apparent expertise in the field of ornithology

Is it? I personally don't listen / watch RTE. Maybe you should have done the same?

Nothing I mentioned indicated an expertise in infectious disease control.

I was replying to your statement. This one, you might remember it:

"here's an idea how about lets actually see what happens when everyone is vaccinated" gozunda, Feb 2021.

That was your response when I suggested that Ireland should open up after the vulnerable are vaccinated, since the services will be well able to cope once that is done. My reply was in that context. Your reply has gone off the wall, but whatever.

beggars_bush

faceman wrote: »

Travel now accounts for just 0.5% of cases in Ireland while close contacts (unrelated to travel) accounts for 50.7%

Travellers are subjected to draconian measures
Close contacts are not subject to any measures at all

Are we learning yet Ireland?

What do you suggest?

gozunda

Del Griffith wrote: »

You don't seem to get it. No one cares about daily cases here (except you, evidently). I've been here since September, it's been pretty much the same the entire time - cases move up and down, it has no effect on day to day life here besides masks everywhere. My clubbing days are over, and everything else is open.I went to the cinema Friday, meal and a few pints on Saturday. You should try it. Oh no, wait..Damn those pesky functioning health care systems, ruining a good lockdown..I've been living here for 4 months, believe me I know more about the situation here than you.

Well you do hold up Malta as perfect - yet you're going on about here and yes things in Malta look fuking ropey tbh with infection rates rising quite a bit since September...




Just as well Malta has a would class and well funded health care system #top 5 in the world even:rolleyes:

But yeah looks like some people in authority at least are concerned

Charmaine Gauci, Superintendent of Public Health, told Times of Malta that numbers of new cases are continuing to fluctuate...
It was clear, she said, that there is ongoing transmission, with the variant having an impact on the number of cases. She appealed to everyone to avoid crowds, stick to their households and follow restrictions.

 https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/covid-19-cases-climb-to-199-another-death-reported.852158

Del Griffith wrote: »

Who's talking about going back to that situation? I disagreed with you saying we should wait to vaccinate everybody, even those that don't need it. I would like to see Ireland open up (fully) after the vulnerable are done. Nothing I mentioned indicated an expertise in infectious disease control. I was replying to your statement. This one, you might remember it:
"here's an idea how about lets actually see what happens when everyone is vaccinated"
That was your response when I suggested that Ireland should open up after the vulnerable are vaccinated, since the services will be well able to cope once that is done. My reply was in that context. Your reply has gone off the wall, but whateveR.

And that's your error. Your proposal was to vaccinate the vulnerable and then bin all restrictions. I dont agree that the two are synonymous at all. My position does not mean i don't believe we can't start to roll back restrictions as vaccinations rates increase btw. So no it is not MY "plan (to) literally ... lock down until 2022 or beyond, no matter how long it takes, to vaccinate the entire population" Thats your own bizarre take on matters

Tbh no idea why though are bothered either way as you consider yourself safe where you are and that's fine. I'm sure we'll also be absolutely fine as well here tbh. That said If you are so convinced that your own way is the only true way forward maybe give Tony a call. Id say he'll be all ears