Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Darwin

Darwin wrote: »

Sigh. Let's try again. International travel is only allowed for what are deemed essential purposes and everybody is well aware of that, that is why this thread exists. It is to discuss the prospects or lack of relating to non-essential travel.

Yep. Essential travel had always been allowed.
Does this thread exist just to discuss non essential travel?
I dont think that is the case, although there is some serious doom and gloom going on alright.
It's temporary lads, it will all be ok soon

Valhallapt

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep. Essential travel had always been allowed.
Does this thread exist just to discuss non essential travel?
I dont think that is the case, although there is some serious doom and gloom going on alright.
It's temporary lads, it will all be ok soon

You and your mate harping on about scariants, that’s doom and gloom.

This thread is for those of us who want to get off the island with out be treated like a criminal.

kilns

Valhallapt wrote: »

You and your mate harping on about scariants, that’s doom and gloom.

This thread is for those of us who want to get off the island with out be treated like a criminal.

Or those of us who are fully vaccinated and get can't back with the current ridiculous rules even for fully vaccinated people

Del Griffith

saabsaab wrote: »

Not somewhere..It was from Tony himself yesterday as far as I can recall. You'd prefer to swamp us with new variants before we vaccinate most people?

Sure what difference will the vaccination rate make if your argument is that the so- far-imaginary variants can dodge the vaccines?

Valhallapt

Valhallapt wrote: »

You and your mate harping on about scariants, that’s doom and gloom.

This thread is for those of us who want to get off the island with out be treated like a criminal.

I don't talk about scariants, have never mentioned anything about any variants or scariants or anything like it.
We all want to travel again.
Why are You Trying to make me something I am not?
Why are you making up lies about me?

saabsaab

Del Griffith wrote: »

Sure what difference will the vaccination rate make if your argument is that the so- far-imaginary variants can dodge the vaccines?

Good question. A true 'scariant' (hugely infectious plus very fatal) would put us back to square one. However, if the vaccine roll out across the World is fast enough we won't allow it to develop plus if the vaccines give a reasonable degree of protection combined with local lockdowns when necessary it may not get a chance to spread. I'll get a link on this later.

saabsaab

ZX7R wrote: »

There is only one strain of the Indian variant.
And it doesn't defeat one dose of the vaccine it reduces its efficiency by 1.5 to 2 %
Stop telling lies

See below no lie.



https://www.ft.com/content/a70d423a-7d7c-4736-8828-0a485d7c3a8e

More than one Indian strain , no lie. See below

Chairman of Nphet’s Coronavirus Expert Advisory Group, Dr Cillian De Gascun explained that there are two strains of the Indian variant, B1617.1 and B1617.2.

There have been 20 confirmed cases of the B1617.1 strain and 41 cases of the B1617.2 strain.

He said: “B1617.2 is the one that we’re more concerned about at the moment, based on the experience in India and in the UK.

mmclo

Fann Linn wrote: »

Didn't the FG MEPs vote or abstain against the Green Cert earlier this week?

MEPs didn’t vote this week, they adopted their position a few weeks back. The Parliaments lead people on this file were negotiating with the Council (on behalf of ministers) think most Irish MEPs voted for the cert, but there are a lot of amendments and procedural votes which people often portray as “opposing” something

ZX7R

saabsaab wrote: »

See below no lie.



https://www.ft.com/content/a70d423a-7d7c-4736-8828-0a485d7c3a8e

It's a lie saying it defeats one shot.
Pfizer stating 1.5 to 2 % decrease in efficiency for first shot as are moderne real world data.
UK released information today from clinical trials between 3 and 6 % reduction of efficiency for Pfizer and ac respectively

ZX7R

saabsaab wrote: »

See below no lie.



https://www.ft.com/content/a70d423a-7d7c-4736-8828-0a485d7c3a8e

More than one Indian strain , no lie. See below

Chairman of Nphet’s Coronavirus Expert Advisory Group, Dr Cillian De Gascun explained that there are two strains of the Indian variant, B1617.1 and B1617.2.

There have been 20 confirmed cases of the B1617.1 strain and 41 cases of the B1617.2 strain.

He said: “B1617.2 is the one that we’re more concerned about at the moment, based on the experience in India and in the UK.

Fair enough on the second Indian strain.

jellies

From FT: "After two doses, the range of protection we’ve been living with is 85-90%.

The new data showing 87% for B.1.1.7 implies ~zero drop-off.

81% for B.1.617.2 is a very small dip and the confidence intervals overlap with the 85-90% range, so it’s possible there is no drop-off at all".

Study was done with Pfizer and AZ vaccines. Should be no need to be overly concerned with the India variant once folks are vaccinated with two doses.

saabsaab

ZX7R wrote: »

It's a lie saying it defeats one shot.
Pfizer stating 1.5 to 2 % decrease in efficiency for first shot as are moderne real world data.
UK released information today from clinical trials between 3 and 6 % reduction of efficiency for Pfizer and ac respectively

Don't know where you got your info from but

'One dose of the Covid-19 vaccine offered 33 per cent protection against the virus variant, per FT.The data from the Oxford-AstraZeneca and Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines showed that while a single Covid shot offered 51 per cent protection against the B.1.1.7 variant, both doses provided 87 per cent protection. This means a single dose of Covid vaccine provides 35 per cent less protection against B.1.617.2 as compared with the variant first detected in the UK.'


33% or even 51% sounds a poor defence but I guess it isnot fully known yet.

jellies

saabsaab wrote: »

Don't know where you got your info from but

'One dose of the Covid-19 vaccine offered 33 per cent protection against the virus variant, per FT.The data from the Oxford-AstraZeneca and Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines showed that while a single Covid shot offered 51 per cent protection against the B.1.1.7 variant, both doses provided 87 per cent protection. This means a single dose of Covid vaccine provides 35 per cent less protection against B.1.617.2 as compared with the variant first detected in the UK.'


33% or even 51% sounds a poor defence but I guess it isnot fully known yet.

Again from FT. "Those relative reductions are FT calculations based on data showing that after one dose, protection against symptomatic infection with B.1.1.7 is 51%, falling to 33% for B.1.617.2.

And after two doses it's 87% for B.1.1.7 and 81% for B.1.617.2, a very high level of protection.

Those first dose figures of 51% and 33% may sound low, but need interpreting in their proper context:

First dose efficacy was previously estimated at between 55% and 70%, with a lot of this based on the 'pre-variant era', as it were https://t.co/ShstwE72W7 https://t.co/RN4JsLp8mg"

So not much difference to the pre variant situation for B117 and a relative reduction of 35% for B1617.2. This is just for the first dose. Two doses the gap narrows hugely. Nothing scary here at all.

Del Griffith

saabsaab wrote: »

Good question. A true 'scariant' (hugely infectious plus very fatal) would put us back to square one. However, if the vaccine roll out across the World is fast enough we won't allow it to develop plus if the vaccines give a reasonable degree of protection combined with local lockdowns when necessary it may not get a chance to spread. I'll get a link on this later.

So let's just get this straight and clarify the depth of your hysteria because I'm not 100% sure I follow.

You are suggesting that Ireland needs to stay essentially closed to all tourism until the entire world is vaccinated (approximately 11 billion doses, currently estimated to take between 5 and 7 years)?

And this insanity should be combined with local lockdowns aswell during that time?

All for fear of variants which can beat the vaccines, something which at this point there is no evidence of at all?

Jeez, were all very pessimistic today aren't we?

Chin up guys, in 6 weeks time well all be enjoying a meal and a drink in a beer garden

saabsaab

Del Griffith wrote: »

So let's just get this straight and clarify the depth of your hysteria because I'm not 100% sure I follow.

You are suggesting that Ireland needs to stay essentially closed to all tourism until the entire world is vaccinated (approximately 11 billion doses, currently estimated to take between 5 and 7 years)?

And this insanity should be combined with local lockdowns aswell during that time?

All for fear of variants which can beat the vaccines, something which at this point there is no evidence of at all?

No hysteria, just Ireland mostly vaccinated, with possible local lockdowns on various countries that develop new more deadly variants. As I said already there is evidence that currently the Indian variant is able to reduce effectiveness of some vaccines.

faceman

faceman wrote: »

I’m heading back to Ireland for 6 weeks next month. Kind of dreading it. Life is well on the path to normality in Spain for some time. Covid is virtually non existent in my area. Meanwhile in Ireland there are a few people who are almost afraid to see me because I’m one of those nasty (Irish) foreigners that saabsaab keeps talking about.

From the sound of it I won’t be meeting friends in the pub in Ireland because all the outdoor slots are booked up for June. Contrast that with me last night out for a walk and spur of the moment decision popped in to the local boozer, sat inside and had a sneaky nightcap.

Just like the hiv scares in the 80’s, the scaremongering worked and people still believe that sex without a condom is a guaranteed path to catching hiv when in reality the narrative was never updated event though risks are low. Ireland’s mentality with covid is the same.

We hear about the scaremongering over variants but I don’t think I’ve ever heard an Irish politician or NPHET confirm that the vaccines work against all existing variants. It’s a narrative isn’t aligned with other countries.

I just wonder how long it will be until the Ireland psyche catches up with the rest of Europe.

Taking posters in this thread. Saabsaab views travel like dropping your mickey in to a beef mincer. Mickey32 seems to think travel won’t return in a meaningful way. Not having a pop but it’s clear their mindset is quiet extreme. I’m not sure how prevalent that kind of mindset is in Ireland.

I’ll try not to bring back all the variants from my disease riddled neighbourhood though. Keep you posted lads

Your analogy with AIDS is sad and demeaning to what the actual AIDS crisis consisted of. I'm sure you'll be happy with your virtual thanks.

corkonion

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Jeez, were all very pessimistic today aren't we?

Chin up guys, in 6 weeks time well all be enjoying a meal and a drink in a beer garden

Wait 6 weeks if you want, I'll be doing that in a fortnight

corkonion

corkonion wrote: »

Wait 6 weeks if you want, I'll be doing that in a fortnight

Well I did it a month ago in Spain so I win

Del Griffith

saabsaab wrote: »

No hysteria, just Ireland mostly vaccinated, with possible local lockdowns on various countries that develop new more deadly variants. As I said already there is evidence that currently the Indian variant is able to reduce effectiveness of some vaccines.

It's interesting that lads of your opinion on covid always "follow the experts" until the same experts say there's nothing really to worry about i.e vaccines are effective against the Indian variant. Then it's time to dismiss that widely held opinion and go searching for one that suits your panic narrative.

And as I've pointed out before none of the vaccines have been designed nor trialed to prevent spread, only lesson/ remove symptoms. Ergo new variants developing will always be possible and (outside of remaining restricted forever) your view point and that strategy is highly flawed.

Ray Donovan

So the 6 week lead in time from July 1st for the Green Cert is officially a thing.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_2593

Coupled with our media reporting travel hesitancy has crept in to our government due to the Indian variant (Yet English Sunday broadsheets report today that its nothing to worry about as vaccines work fine), it seems theres no hope of travel before mid August.

I now fully expect the travel fine to be extended on June 2nd. Possibly all the way up to implementation of Green Cert here.

pc7

Mid August would screw most families as schools ask you to sign declarations you haven’t been away previous 14 days.

Valhallapt

Surely delaying the green vaccine cert 6 weeks is an own goal? If you are fully vaccinated why pay for a pcr test? They are trivially easy to fake, I’d imagine a lot of vaccinated people would be happy to travel with their HSE card and a fake pcr result? And if that’s the case why bother at all with a genuine test

faceman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your analogy with AIDS is sad and demeaning to what the actual AIDS crisis consisted of. I'm sure you'll be happy with your virtual thanks.

No its not

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/professor-luke-oneill-history-holds-the-answer-as-to-how-we-should-deal-with-the-pandemic-40246893.html

https://www.newstalk.com/news/luke-oneill-let-people-outdoors-more-and-theyll-be-less-likely-to-break-other-rules-1170275

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/prof-luke-o-neill-it-s-definitely-beatable-covid-19-1.4258229

Lumen

I'll wait to see what this week's announcement brings, but if there are no specific commitments I'll be switching from Rosslare ferry to Belfast flights for my early August holidays.

The slippage from 21 June to 1 July has completely screwed me.

Gael23

For people fully vaccinated by 1st July will you still have to wait 6 weeks to get the cert?

ngunners

Gael23 wrote: »

For people fully vaccinated by 1st July will you still have to wait 6 weeks to get the cert?

Yes but you may be able to travel without the cert. Wait and see what the government announces next week.

Lumen

Gael23 wrote: »

For people fully vaccinated by 1st July will you still have to wait 6 weeks to get the cert?

Yes, unless they deliver early.

But that isn't really the main issue. Vaccination card or PCR test will probably do for the destination country.

The issue is that going to the (air)port is illegal.

KanyeSouthEast

Lumen wrote: »

Yes, unless they deliver early.

But that isn't really the main issue. Vaccination card or PCR test will probably do for the destination country.

The issue is that going to the (air)port is illegal.

And coming back again and having all these quarantine restrictions placed on us.

Van.Bosch

pc7 wrote: »

Mid August would screw most families as schools ask you to sign declarations you haven’t been away previous 14 days.

I wonder if travel is allowed would that not go too?