Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

caveat emptor

IQO wrote: »

How will this be enforced?

There are no direct flights from f.e. South Africa or Brazil to Ireland.. if anyone just transfers elsewhere in Europa, gets a covid test there, it looks fairly easy to circumvent these heavy restrictions. Heavy because people are already arriving now with a negative PCR test - most cases are community transmissions in Ireland now.

On another note, did they release any info about which hotels will be participating in this scheme, their prices and food menu's?

What will happen when someone arrives without a valid PCR test and is unable to pay the hotel?

You seem to have me mixed up with someone who works in government. I'd say get on to the local TD with those questions. Will be interesting to see.

IQO

IQO wrote: »

How will this be enforced?

Good question. Like everything else I would say, thrown at the Gardai to deal with without any sign of them getting vaccinated or the tools to do it properly meaning more Gardai dealing with covid and not patrolling / looking for actual dangerous criminals.

IQO wrote: »

There are no direct flights from f.e. South Africa or Brazil to Ireland.. if anyone just transfers elsewhere in Europe,

People transfer within international airports all the time and at no stage in history has this effected the rules governming where they come from. A Brazilian arriving into Ireland has never been able to simple say "Ah sure I was in London" so why could they now? The place of ORIGIN does not consider a layover location unless you pass immigration in that country.

IQO wrote: »

if anyone just transfers elsewhere in Europe, gets a covid test there

That would require entering that country, abiding by their restrictions, testing and then flying here.

IQO wrote: »

What will happen when someone arrives without a valid PCR test but is unable to pay for the hotel?

They will be refused entry and put on the next plane home. Just as people are refused now for a lack of funds to cover their stay.

IQO

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

They will be refused entry and put on the next plane home. Just as people are refused now for a lack of funds to cover their stay.

What if they are Irish?

IQO

IQO wrote: »

What if they are Irish?

Good question. They will be in debt and subject to the rules and consequences of that as anyone else that doesnt pay for a hotel.

They could of course challenge the bill from the hotel and the rules. That would require a solicitor and probable a barrister and the costs associated with that plus the costs of the other side in the event of losing your case. So your bill could go from 'nasty' to 'Im bankrupt' pretty fast and based entirely on a gamble.

caveat emptor

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Good question. They will be in debt and subject to the rules and consequences of that as anyone else that doesnt pay for a hotel.

I guess it be like people who don't pay for hospital bills or student loans. There'll be people who can't afford it. I wonder will the pricing be standardised or will there be different levels of quarantine. 4 seasons vs travel lodge kinda thing.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

I guess it be like people who don't pay for hospital bills or student loans. There'll be people who can't afford it. I wonder will the pricing be standardised or will there be different levels of quarantine. 4 seasons vs travel lodge kinda thing.

Dunno about student loans. Arent they just normal bank loans? Never had one

The HSE does take debters to court if they think they can get the money but whats the point in chasing a 100 euro A&E fee from a homeless alcoholic? The people arrving from these listed countries are more likely to have some degree of financial supports and something to lose from a court case.

that might not be fair but its probable the way it will go

IQO

caveat emptor wrote: »

I guess it be like people who don't pay for hospital bills or student loans. There'll be people who can't afford it. I wonder will the pricing be standardised or will there be different levels of quarantine. 4 seasons vs travel lodge kinda thing.

I've been looking into this for Thailand previously; they do something similar. Their quarantine packages are varying widely:


https://thaiest.com/blog/list-of-alternative-state-quarantine-asq-hotels-thailand

IQO

IQO wrote: »

I've been looking into this for Thailand previously; they do something similar. Their quarantine packages are varying widely:


https://thaiest.com/blog/list-of-alternative-state-quarantine-asq-hotels-thailand

Plus flights but still, its not so bad for a 2 week holiday if you are happy by the pool

caveat emptor

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Dunno about student loans. Arent they just normal bank loans? Never had one

The HSE does take debters to court if they think they can get the money but whats the point in chasing a 100 euro A&E fee from a homeless alcoholic? The people arrving from these listed countries are more likely to have some degree of financial supports and something to lose from a court case.

that might not be fair but its probable the way it will go

Yeah. Sorry I saying student loans in the context of the UK ones (always in the news over there).

Other thing is that the government generally provides consular assistance. I guess it'll include this now. Not sure what happens if someone can't afford a flight home but they aren't left there I think.

Donald Trump

Father Hernandez wrote: »

People can get home almost immediately.

The big difference now is that expats living in Ireland or abroad are now having to factor in an unprecedented and expensive mandatory quarantine of healthy and unhealthy people that never existed before today.

Before they made their choice, this never existed.

That's not true.


There are plenty of people who went to the US or Australia, even up to the 80's and 90's who knew that it was more or less a one way ticket in the sense that they would not be able to make it home easily, if ever. Cheap and easy travel has only really been a possibility for the past two decades.



In the US, some of those people are still stuck there, unable to travel home for funerals or other family events!


Others may never consider the practical aspect .... as they say .... ignorance is bliss. But it's not an excuse.

Father Hernandez

Donald Trump wrote: »

That's not true.


There are plenty of people who went to the US or Australia, even up to the 80's and 90's who knew that it was more or less a one way ticket in the sense that they would not be able to make it home easily, if ever. Cheap and easy travel has only really been a possibility for the past two decades.



In the US, some of those people are still stuck there, unable to travel home for funerals or other family events!


Others may never consider the practical aspect .... as they say .... ignorance is bliss. But it's not an excuse.

Someone 2 years ago leaving Ireland for a 'better life' elsewhere or coming into Ireland for a 'better life' didn't have to take into consideration mandatory quarantine that would cost in excess of €2k for any reason arriving into the country.

The world has evolved since the 80s and 90s, the world is a much, much smaller place. Hopping on a plane half way across the world was possible in the space of 24-48 hours, it was seen as something extremely minor in the grand scheme of things. It's why people have moved abroad, gone traveling for months on end.

It's easy to say well "tough luck, you made your choice" when it may never affect you directly but as I said, this is completely unprecedented for anyone abroad who may have sick or dying parents, siblings, etc.

faceman

This isn’t a pleasant read. We were warned once we go down the road of quarantine hotels it’s very hard to roll it back.

https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/a-year-into-the-pandemic-air-travel-quarantines-are-getting-longer-and-lonelier-40132543.html

caveat emptor

faceman wrote: »

This isn’t a pleasant read. We were warned once we go down the road of quarantine hotels it’s very hard to roll it back.

https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/a-year-into-the-pandemic-air-travel-quarantines-are-getting-longer-and-lonelier-40132543.html

Thanks for the heads up I'll avoid it so.

faceman

faceman wrote: »

This isn’t a pleasant read. We were warned once we go down the road of quarantine hotels it’s very hard to roll it back.

https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/a-year-into-the-pandemic-air-travel-quarantines-are-getting-longer-and-lonelier-40132543.html

We werent warned of any such thing.

Its not new and history has shown that once the problem is resolved, the need for quarantine being abolished results in it being stopped.

dan786

If the hotels costs around 2k for a 2 week quarantine, most will probably travel to a country that is not on the list , enjoy another 1-2 weeks holiday there and then come back with a PCR test and quarantine at home. Might end up costing less than the hotel cost here.

Donald Trump

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Someone 2 years ago leaving Ireland for a 'better life' elsewhere or coming into Ireland for a 'better life' didn't have to take into consideration mandatory quarantine that would cost in excess of €2k for any reason arriving into the country.

The world has evolved since the 80s and 90s, the world is a much, much smaller place. Hopping on a plane half way across the world was possible in the space of 24-48 hours, it was seen as something extremely minor in the grand scheme of things. It's why people have moved abroad, gone traveling for months on end.

It's easy to say well "tough luck, you made your choice" when it may never affect you directly but as I said, this is completely unprecedented for anyone abroad who may have sick or dying parents, siblings, etc.

Why? I emigrated and lived abroad for the best part of a decade. Distance from home was one of the major reasons I returned. You can go abroad, you build you life abroad, and have great intentions of coming back to visit X times per year.....but you will get distractions with your new life and you can forget about the distance until something happens back home.



You don't need to anticipate the exact genomic sequence of Sars-Cov-2 to understand that the more variables that are involved in a chain to get you home, the more likely you are to have issues.


If you are from Cork City and you move to a mining town in the Australian outback, then don't be surprised if it's not as convenient for you to get back to Cork as your sibling who moved to Dublin. Really what should happen as well is that your sibling in Dublin should move back to Cork City. Although that's not for family reasons, it's more so that the poor people in Dublin don't have to put up with another langer from Cork.

Ray Donovan

ECDC travel map updated today.

Canary Islands gone from red to orange.

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

We werent warned of any such thing.

Its not new and history has shown that once the problem is resolved, the need for quarantine being abolished results in it being stopped.

But who decides when the problem is resolved? There will be people (and we have at least 3 of them) who believe it will be many many years. The variant card will be pulled out as a justification. Victoria wouldn’t be building purpose built quarantine villages if they thought that this was not for the long haul

Del Griffith

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But who decides when the problem is resolved? There will be people (and we have at least 3 of them) who believe it will be many many years. The variant card will be pulled out as a justification. Victoria wouldn’t be building purpose built quarantine villages if they thought that this was not for the long haul

100%. Sure the whole thing is based on 'what if' and such such variant 'may be' more deadly and 'could be' vaccine resistant.
We just don't know, so lock em up for two weeks.

Happydays2020

faceman wrote: »

This isn’t a pleasant read. We were warned once we go down the road of quarantine hotels it’s very hard to roll it back.

https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/a-year-into-the-pandemic-air-travel-quarantines-are-getting-longer-and-lonelier-40132543.html

That’s scary. Maybe we should seal the border and within a week or two people have have ordinary lives again with no travel.

Happydays2020

Ray Donovan wrote: »

ECDC travel map updated today.

Canary Islands gone from red to orange.

4 weeks and Ireland will be green

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But who decides when the problem is resolved? There will be people (and we have at least 3 of them) who believe it will be many many years. The variant card will be pulled out as a justification. Victoria wouldn’t be building purpose built quarantine villages if they thought that this was not for the long haul

The democratically elected government based on qualifed medical experts advise.

Just as nations have been doing for years. Who should decide? You? A random person on the internet with no mandate?

hmmm

Quarantines will work if you quarantine everyone, but it's an incredibly drastic step with huge costs. I think it's too late for that now.

Watching what's happening with the vaccines, I'm confident we'll be able to travel in the second half of the year. I'll leave booking till later however (or make sure there is a good refund policy). I expect the Med countries will push the EU to allow anyone with a vaccination to travel.

Happydays2020

Happydays2020 wrote: »

4 weeks and Ireland will be green

Can't see us going green but I'll take orange

fm

Happydays2020 wrote: »

4 weeks and Ireland will be green

Orange in about 2 I hope but green is a bit longer than 4 weeks I think

faceman

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

We werent warned of any such thing.

Its not new and history has shown that once the problem is resolved, the need for quarantine being abolished results in it being stopped.

We were

Your second comment makes sense. But the question is what’s the measure? Some people calling for full quarantine think it’s something that will be lifted by the summer. NPHET are referencing the risk of variants will be around for years. NZ and Oz are preparing for the need for a number of years

We won’t achieve the suppression of the virus to a level in Ireland according to NPHET that will remove the need to wear masks and maintain social distancing even after mass vaccination.

Tazz T

faceman wrote: »

We were

Your second comment makes sense. But the question is what’s the measure? Some people calling for full quarantine think it’s something that will be lifted by the summer. NPHET are referencing the risk of variants will be around for years. NZ and Oz are preparing for the need for a number of years

We won’t achieve the suppression of the virus to a level in Ireland according to NPHET that will remove the need to wear masks and maintain social distancing even after mass vaccination.

People calling for mandatory quarantine for everyone coming into the country just as the pandemic ends are simply buying in on the media scaremongering. These are the same ones that will be crying for it to be gone when NI opens up in May, meaning any form of quarantine is utterly pointless and only serves to annihilate the aviation, travel and tourism industries further. Aer Lingus posted a 563 million loss for last year today. If they aren't allowed to operate normally during the summer months this year when infections are low, they're done. Even if they are, costly PCRs, government advice on non-essential travel, and ongoing general restrictions will see the end of the national airline.

With places like Australia and New Zealand looking at permanent facilities for quarantine, is that what people want here? Those countries won't be open for years.

I'm astounded by the herd mentality of 'shut the airports' on every travel related thread on Facebook. Utterly pointless at this stage. It's time to putting in place measures to open up and save, if possible, what's left of the countless industries that depend on international travel.

ninebeanrows

Nabarro from WHO optimistic about inter EU travel in summer, Claire Byrne gobsmacked, she cannot beat down his positivity!!

JojoLoca

faceman wrote: »

Some people calling for full quarantine think it’s something that will be lifted by the summer. NPHET are referencing the risk of variants will be around for years. NZ and Oz are preparing for the need for a number of years

I don't think people realise what they are asking for. NZ and Oz are going with the zero Covid strategy, so hotel quarantine for all arrivals makes sense. We are not doing that. Also, people seem to think this quarantine is for the level 5 only, while it would be here to stay for a long time. And they are talking about extending it to all arrivals....
For me, a foreign national living in Ireland, a perspective of not being able to travel to see my family (within the EU) for the unforeseeable future, because on the return I would be detained in the hotel for two weeks at extortionate cost, is unacceptable. We don't lock up people who actually test positive for Covid, hell, there isn't even half arsed phone call to check if they are self-isolating.
Yet they want to detain people with negative test results.

Tazz T

ninebeanrows wrote: »

Nabarro from WHO optimistic about inter EU travel in summer, Claire Byrne gobsmacked, she cannot beat down his positivity!!

He's absolutely right. Short of some mad 100-1 variant coming alone, all of Europe will flying in June. In the same way that everyone accepts that pubs are a no goer indefinitely now, something inconceivable a year ago, she's been assimilated into the 'no travel this summer, don't even mention it' mindset - even if covid disappears. In a sense, she's a victim of her own media.