Workplace temperature

Guill

I'm currently working between two rooms in the plant. One lab and my office.
It's an old building and these rooms haven't been used for years until we spread out for Covid.
It's currently 12 degrees in these rooms. I'm working stationary at a desk and I'm currently sitting here with a coat on, hood up and a face mask on - all for heat.
In the lab area I'm supposed be doing some dexterous work but am struggling.

I've asked for a portable heater and don't seem to be getting any hop. What can I do? I'm not one for stirring sh1t but it's too cold for me.

Diziet

Show your employers page 8 of this and tell them to fix the temperature https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/General_Application_Regulations/gen_apps_workplace.pdf

Strumms

Do as Diziet has suggested, give them 10 working days, during this time take the temperature using a thermometer, AM, lunchtime and PM each day and record it...if the heating has not been fixed or temporary portable heaters acquired... call your GP, explain the situation, he in probability will advise you to stay off work and call in sick...

Freestanding heaters cost from about 40-160 euros, not breaking the bank, not by any stretch.. the employer needs to remove their finger and subsequently their brain from their rectum and deal with the issue..

nibtrix

Strumms wrote: »

Freestanding heaters cost from about 40-160 euros, not breaking the bank, not by any stretch..

Just to note on this, there is possibly a H&S issue and potential liability issues involved with portable heaters that make it a bit more difficult than just purchasing a couple of devices.

It's not excusing the employer in any way from their urgent obligation to provide a suitably heated environment, but this may not be a solution they can use.

B.A._Baracus

Short answer: Start to layer up.

Long answer: In our current climate lots of people are out of work. There's thousands of people out there who would love to slip into your job and take your wage.
Ask yourself these two questions. Is the money good? Does the job annoy you or are you happy?

If you answer 'yes and happy' then stick with it. For the record I do not mean for my post to come off as a rude "suck it up" mentality - But we have to evaluate our current situations in life given current times.

Beric Dondarrion

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Short answer: Start to layer up.

Long answer: In our current climate lots of people are out of work. There's thousands of people out there who would love to slip into your job and take your wage.
Ask yourself these two questions. Is the money good? Does the job annoy you or are you happy?

If you answer 'yes and happy' then stick with it. For the record I do not mean for my post to come off as a rude "suck it up" mentality - But we have to evaluate our current situations in life given current times.

Terrible advice.

discodiva92

12 degrees isn't cold??

B.A._Baracus

Beric Dondarrion wrote: »

Terrible advice.

Then, by opposition of my advice, the op should create some big stink about why it's so cold. Annoy people. Perhaps you feel he should immediately quit his job because of these 'terrible work conditions'?

It's all about the money bro. The smart man works to live. Not live to work. But enough about my 'bad advice' - what should the op do? It's easy to critique. What's your advice?

Peregrinus

nibtrix wrote: »

Just to note on this, there is possibly a H&S issue and potential liability issues involved with portable heaters that make it a bit more difficult than just purchasing a couple of devices.

It's not excusing the employer in any way from their urgent obligation to provide a suitably heated environment, but this may not be a solution they can use.

They've got to ensure that the statutory minimum temperatures are maintained "so far as reasonably practicable". If they are failing to maintain the minimum temperatures the onus is not them, I think, to show that it's not reasonably practicable to do so.

So, yeah, even if there is a problem with using this particular solution, the onus is on them to demonstrate that their is a problem, and to show that they are doing what is reasonably practicable to implement some other solution.

Beric Dondarrion

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Then, by opposition of my advice, the op should create some big stink about why it's so cold. Annoy people. Perhaps you feel he should immediately quit his job because of these 'terrible work conditions'?

It's all about the money bro. The smart man works to live. Not live to work. But enough about my 'bad advice' - what should the op do? It's easy to critique. What's your advice?

Employers have a duty of care towards their employees and one of these duties is to provide a satisfactory and safe work environment. Your advice to just suck it up and say nothing because someone else will gladly do the job ignores this aspect completely. As you said it's all about the money so that's your attitude. Unfortunately some of us don't agree. If your workplace is not suitable/safe for the job at hand something must be said in order to bring about change. This is spelled out in the HSA document that was presented in the second post. With your advice taken to the extreme no one should say anything about any situation they are not happy with for fear of being replaced because there is currently a lot of people out of work. Yep because that's how the jobs market functions. Everyone that's out of a job can do do everyone else's job, skills be damned. Ffs

NomadicGray

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Short answer: Start to layer up.

Long answer: In our current climate lots of people are out of work. There's thousands of people out there who would love to slip into your job and take your wage.
Ask yourself these two questions. Is the money good? Does the job annoy you or are you happy?

If you answer 'yes and happy' then stick with it. For the record I do not mean for my post to come off as a rude "suck it up" mentality - But we have to evaluate our current situations in life given current times.

On your knees and eager to please eh

GreeBo

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Then, by opposition of my advice, the op should create some big stink about why it's so cold. Annoy people. Perhaps you feel he should immediately quit his job because of these 'terrible work conditions'?

No, he should request that the problem be addressed and follow up with HR until it has been addressed.

12* is stupid cold, its supposed to be 17.5* minimum and there would be war in any office that I have even been in if it was below 20*.

Guill

GreeBo wrote: »

No, he should request that the problem be addressed and follow up with HR until it has been addressed.

12* is stupid cold, its supposed to be 17.5* minimum and there would be war in any office that I have even been in if it was below 20*.

That's what I did on Thursday.
On the Friday it was colder so I set up elsewhere. I was able to complete some less critical tasks to ensure I was productive.

The advise to suck it up is so bad I can only assume it's a troll, the thread burst into life once it was posted. I've got the advice I need so thanks to you all.

Mods can close the thread if they wish.

Guill.

GreeBo

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Short answer: Start to layer up.

Long answer: In our current climate lots of people are out of work. There's thousands of people out there who would love to slip into your job and take your wage.
Ask yourself these two questions. Is the money good? Does the job annoy you or are you happy?

If you answer 'yes and happy' then stick with it. For the record I do not mean for my post to come off as a rude "suck it up" mentality - But we have to evaluate our current situations in life given current times.

And the good news with this is that when the workplace whippings start the OP wont even feel them thanks to all those extra layers!:rolleyes:

B.A._Baracus

Beric Dondarrion wrote: »

Employers have a duty of care towards their employees and one of these duties is to provide a satisfactory and safe work environment. Your advice to just suck it up and say nothing because someone else will gladly do the job ignores this aspect completely. As you said it's all about the money so that's your attitude. Unfortunately some of us don't agree. If your workplace is not suitable/safe for the job at hand something must be said in order to bring about change. This is spelled out in the HSA document that was presented in the second post. With your advice taken to the extreme no one should say anything about any situation they are not happy with for fear of being replaced because there is currently a lot of people out of work. Yep because that's how the jobs market functions. Everyone that's out of a job can do do everyone else's job, skills be damned. Ffs

We're talking about it being cold.
Let me tell you a story. Just over two years ago I worked for a very famous retailer here in Ireland and they were absolute cu*ts. See all the stuff you said about duty of care for employees? Not there. Fictional set of words to them.

Some bloke lost his foot using the electric pallet truck in another store. What were we told? Just be careful. No steel toe cap boots given or ANY protective gear. One of the lads was doing the produce and he gets told to be faster ... So he hauls ass and pulls out his back. Did he get any sick time off? Of course not. Did the managers stop pushing people about being faster? Of course not.

You'd often be told at 9am to do three big, huge freezer pallets by 10am. Which is an impossible task for one man. But you want to talk about being cold? Try handling a crap ton of frozen boxes. Oh bring your own gloves too as you won't get any.

Apart from that you had the lovely experience of certain managers treating you like a piece of sh*t waiting to be scrapped off their shoe. In any other normal circumstance a person would have received a slap for how they would talk. But hey we sucked it up because the bills needed to be paid.

You see jobs like that make one appreciate what they have. It puts things into prospective. It did for me as I appreciate the job I have now.

So, as I said in my first post, is the op on good money and is he happy? That's all that matters.

So what, it's a little bit cold. Who cares.
You can spout duty of care all you want. There's certain employers out there who don't give a bollocks.

NomadicGray wrote: »

On your knees and eager to please eh

Grow the f*ck up.
Gas thing is I reckon you've opened your proverbial mouth nice and wide for many. This is the internet after all. Anyone can talk sh*te and be rude.

Daniel son

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

We're talking about it being cold.
Let me tell you a story. Just over two years ago I worked for a very famous retailer here in Ireland and they were absolute cu*ts. See all the stuff you said about duty of care for employees? Not there. Fictional set of words to them.

Some bloke lost his foot using the electric pallet truck in another store. What were we told? Just be careful. No steel toe cap boots given or ANY protective gear. One of the lads was doing the produce and he gets told to be faster ... So he hauls ass and pulls out his back. Did he get any sick time off? Of course not. Did the managers stop pushing people about being faster? Of course not.

You'd often be told at 9am to do three big, huge freezer pallets by 10am. Which is an impossible task for one man. But you want to talk about being cold? Try handling a crap ton of frozen boxes. Oh bring your own gloves too as you won't get any.

Apart from that you had the lovely experience of certain managers treating you like a piece of sh*t waiting to be scrapped off their shoe. In any other normal circumstance a person would have received a slap for how they would talk. But hey we sucked it up because the bills needed to be paid.

You see jobs like that make one appreciate what they have. It puts things into prospective. It did for me as I appreciate the job I have now.

So, as I said in my first post, is the op on good money and is he happy? That's all that matters.

So what, it's a little bit cold. Who cares.
You can spout duty of care all you want. There's certain employers out there who don't give a bollocks.




Grow the f*ck up.
Gas thing is I reckon you've opened your proverbial mouth nice and wide for many. This is the internet after all. Anyone can talk sh*te and be rude.

Some people have no self respect or self worth.

To the OP, you have rights, use them .

B.A._Baracus

Daniel son wrote: »

Some people have no self respect or self worth.

To the OP, you have rights, use them .

Well I did. I got myself out of that job.
I still know people working there. But they need to pay the bills so that's why they do it.

Beric Dondarrion

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

We're talking about it being cold.
Let me tell you a story. Just over two years ago I worked for a very famous retailer here in Ireland and they were absolute cu*ts. See all the stuff you said about duty of care for employees? Not there. Fictional set of words to them.

Some bloke lost his foot using the electric pallet truck in another store. What were we told? Just be careful. No steel toe cap boots given or ANY protective gear. One of the lads was doing the produce and he gets told to be faster ... So he hauls ass and pulls out his back. Did he get any sick time off? Of course not. Did the managers stop pushing people about being faster? Of course not.

You'd often be told at 9am to do three big, huge freezer pallets by 10am. Which is an impossible task for one man. But you want to talk about being cold? Try handling a crap ton of frozen boxes. Oh bring your own gloves too as you won't get any.

Apart from that you had the lovely experience of certain managers treating you like a piece of sh*t waiting to be scrapped off their shoe. In any other normal circumstance a person would have received a slap for how they would talk. But hey we sucked it up because the bills needed to be paid.

You see jobs like that make one appreciate what they have. It puts things into prospective. It did for me as I appreciate the job I have now.

So, as I said in my first post, is the op on good money and is he happy? That's all that matters.

So what, it's a little bit cold. Who cares.
You can spout duty of care all you want. There's certain employers out there who don't give a bollocks.




Grow the f*ck up.
Gas thing is I reckon you've opened your proverbial mouth nice and wide for many. This is the internet after all. Anyone can talk sh*te and be rude.

You come across as a very angry individual in this post. And your story about a guy losing his foot sounds like an absolute fairytale. If money is all that concerns you about a job and you're prepared to work in environments like the one you've described where employers have little or no respect for their employees then knock yourself out.

I myself wouldn't considering I have the nous to know what is acceptable and what isn't when it comes to how a work place is setup.

Rodin

GreeBo wrote: »

No, he should request that the problem be addressed and follow up with HR until it has been addressed.

12* is stupid cold, its supposed to be 17.5* minimum and there would be war in any office that I have even been in if it was below 20*.

20c is too hot.

Mod:
No need for that; one sentence deleted.

B.A._Baracus

Beric Dondarrion wrote: »

You come across as a very angry individual in this post. And your story about a guy losing his foot sounds like an absolute fairytale. If money is all that concerns you about a job and you're prepared to work in environments like the one you've described where employers have little or no respect for their employees then knock yourself out.

I myself wouldn't considering I have the nous to know what is acceptable and what isn't when it comes to how a work place is setup.

1, the tactic of calling some "angry" is a cheap trick to weaken a person's opinion. You see it all the time on the internet. Even on boards. Often used by a person who thinks they are more intelligent.

2, I was referencing an accident that a person had in a store a few miles from the one I worked at. How is someone having an accident in work a 'fairytale' ?
But of course, yet again you think you are being a clever clogs. By claiming something is lies you weaken a persons opinion. Thus strengthening your own.

So you called me angry and a liar. Using cheap tricks to achieve this. Have you never heard of attack the post and not the poster?

So tell you what. Use your little tricks on someone else as you try to win a pointless internet argument

Beric Dondarrion

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

1, the tactic of calling some "angry" is a cheap trick to weaken a person's opinion. You see it all the time on the internet. Even on boards. Often used by a person who thinks they are more intelligent.

2, I was referencing an accident that a person had in a store a few miles from the one I worked at. How is someone having an accident in work a 'fairytale' ?
But of course, yet again you think you are being a clever clogs. By claiming something is lies you weaken a persons opinion. Thus strengthening your own.

So you called me angry and a liar. Using cheap tricks to achieve this. Have you never heard of attack the post and not the poster?

So tell you what. Use your little tricks on someone else as you try to win a pointless internet argument

If someone lost a foot at a "major retailer's" premises as you claim it would have made it's way to some sort of media outlet. Unless workers were told they would be fired for reporting such an incident to an outside body ( or maybe they were more focused on taking their wages and saying nothing??)

As for all of your other claims about attacking the poster etc. I am merely offering my opinion on what you have posted here. I don't know you, not really interested in knowing you but I will call bullsh*t on the tripe you were spouting here...."say nothing", "you're lucky you have a job" ," I knew a guy who's second cousins' father's brother's sister lost half his head while moving 4 tons of concrete blocks up a ladder in -14 degree cold".

And then you cry foul when you're taken to task about it and try to deflect with your pseudo-psycho babble about how arguing on the internet works?? OK.

Stheno

B.A Baracus and Beric Dondarion - cut out the sniping or you'll be carded

If you can't be civil don't bother posting

Seve OB

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Short answer: Start to layer up.

Long answer: In our current climate lots of people are out of work. There's thousands of people out there who would love to slip into your job and take your wage.
Ask yourself these two questions. Is the money good? Does the job annoy you or are you happy?

If you answer 'yes and happy' then stick with it. For the record I do not mean for my post to come off as a rude "suck it up" mentality - But we have to evaluate our current situations in life given current times.

well it does.

B.A._Baracus

Seve OB wrote: »

well it does.

It wasn't.
Youre free to think what you what to think. However I don't have to care what you think either.

dreamers75

Diziet wrote: »

Show your employers page 8 of this and tell them to fix the temperature https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/General_Application_Regulations/gen_apps_workplace.pdf

Wonderful advice, what if I sat beside OP and said it was too warm.

You obviously know the PDF you linked to is guidelines and not enforceable by any means.

Its literally in the name GUIDE.

Last job had 2 of these people one hot, one cold at the same temp..........

The General Application Regulations 1993 (S.I. No. 44 of 1993) did not cite
specific temperatures, leading to some uncertainty as to what was legally required
or enforceable when dealing with temperature issues; the situation has been
clarified by the specification of some values in these Regulations.
The fact that a maximum temperature has not been specified i

So basically good luck OP if I was your boss I would tell you to wear appropiate clothing for the enviroment and and compensate you for that.

Diziet

dreamers75 wrote: »

Wonderful advice, what if I sat beside OP and said it was too warm.

You obviously know the PDF you linked to is guidelines and not enforceable by any means.

Its literally in the name GUIDE.

Last job had 2 of these people one hot, one cold at the same temp..........




So basically good luck OP if I was your boss I would tell you to wear appropiate clothing for the enviroment and and compensate you for that.

Guidelines are there for a reason - it is not a matter of feeling cold, the guidelines define acceptable working temperatures. What exactly is wrong with alerting the employer to that?

And if you complain about feeling too hot at 12 degrees, you need to check if you are running a temperature :-)

deirdremf

dreamers75 wrote: »

Wonderful advice, what if I sat beside OP and said it was too warm.

You obviously know the PDF you linked to is guidelines and not enforceable by any means.

Its literally in the name GUIDE.

They are guidelines regarding applying a Regulation, which is actually a Statutory Instrument - which is a Law. You can read it here - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2007/si/299

Section 7 of this Law mandates a minimum temperature for a sedentary office position, which is 17.5ºC. I've posted the section at the bottom of this reply.


The Guide referred to above is an explanation of the law (17.5ºC doesn't change because there is an explanation); but the employer is required to abide by the law. If they don't, they can be prosecuted.


Here's Section 7:




Room temperature.
7. (1) An employer shall ensure that—


(a) during working hours, the temperature in rooms containing workstations is appropriate for human beings, having regard to the working methods being used and the physical demands placed on the employees,


(b) for sedentary office work, a minimum temperature of 17.5°C, so far as is reasonably practicable, is achieved and maintained at every workstation after the first hour's work,


(c) for other sedentary work, at every workstation where a substantial proportion of the work is done sitting and does not involve serious physical effort, a minimum temperature of 16°C is, so far as is reasonably practicable, achieved and maintained after the first hour's work,


(d) means are available to enable persons at work to measure the temperature in any workplace inside a building,


(e) the temperature in rest areas, rooms for duty staff, sanitary facilities, canteens and first-aid rooms is appropriate to the particular purpose of such areas, and


(f) in relation to windows, skylights and glass partitions, excessive effects of sunlight are avoided in places of work, having regard to the nature of the work and the characteristics of the place of work.


(2) The temperature referred to in paragraphs (1)(b) and (c) shall be a dry bulb temperature taken at the working position of the employee at 1.1 m above the floor surface.


(3) Where, due to process requirements, a workplace temperature below 16°C is necessary the employer shall assess the risks and take any necessary measures to ensure the safety health and welfare of the employer's employees.

Strumms

If the heating isn’t up to standard the employer needs to invest to procure a few of these..or similar ones..



In my last job the heating failed in February, it was an old office and facility , much of the office space was open plan, drafty and was equipped with an ancient old heating system from the arc and parts were going to be weeks coming...

Initially the clown employer told us to wrap up well but when a few more sick calls then they were accustomed to started happening they finally gave into our badgering and approved these... one between two desks...we asked security if they’d turn them on in the morning at 6.30 when they arrived which they kindly did... place was toasty when got in at 8.00...

Whatever about legal temperature, it should be comfortable and warm..