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Why are 'anti racist' NGO's so racist to the Irish? *Threadbanned user list in OP*

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    #362
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Invidious wrote: »
    You're claiming with a straight face that 20 to 40 percent of Boards posters are the far right. That has to be the craziest thing I've read on here in a long time.
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Remind me, what percentage of votes did Peter Casey get in the Boards presidental poll?
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Why do you think the Irish Times included him in an article titled ; "Election 2020: Far-right candidates put in dismal showing"?
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    He's not right wing? You're hilarious.

    The article was about the general election, where he bombed.

    Your posts above (the first in response to Invidious).

    You are claiming, from my reading of them, that 20-40% of Boards posters are right wing, because Peter Casey got 24% of the vote in the Presidential election (no, I don't understand the logic here either, but that appears to be what you are trying to say), and simultaneuosly, that Peter Casey "bombed" in the General Election because there is no far right in Ireland.

    Could you explain how these two completely contradictory statements could be true?


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    #363
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,116 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    RandRuns wrote: »
    Your posts above (the first in response to Invidious).

    You are claiming, from my reading of them, that 20-40% of Boards posters are right wing, because Peter Casey got 24% of the vote in the Presidential election (no, I don't understand the logic here either, but that appears to be what you are trying to say), and simultaneuosly, that Peter Casey "bombed" in the General Election because there is no far right in Ireland.

    Could you explain how these two completely contradictory statements could be true?

    Again, don't try to work out what I appear to be saying. Look at what I actually did say.


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    #364
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,116 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    haha ok. More deflection. Par the course. And clearly I'm not the only one who rejects that he's far right. He came 2nd in a presidential election in a country that has consistently rejected far-right candidates. Yet you'd want us to believe that we would near vote for a far-righter to be our president. Maybe that makes sense to you but I'd suggest it's you who needs to have a rethink.

    Indeed, lots of right wing posters here work really hard to deny the existence of the far right.

    What was Baudelaire's maxim that “the devil’s best trick is to persuade you that he does not exist.”


  • Options
    #365
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Again, don't try to work out what I appear to be saying. Look at what I actually did say.

    I posted what you said.

    Now, again, can you explain why you simultaneously claim two completely contradictory positions in relation to the strength of the far right in Ireland, or were you just spoofing yet again?


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    #366
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    RandRuns wrote: »
    Your posts above (the first in response to Invidious).

    You are claiming, from my reading of them, that 20-40% of Boards posters are right wing, because Peter Casey got 24% of the vote in the Presidential election (no, I don't understand the logic here either, but that appears to be what you are trying to say), and simultaneuosly, that Peter Casey "bombed" in the General Election because there is no far right in Ireland.

    Could you explain how these two completely contradictory statements could be true?

    He's saying that Peter Casey is far right because the Irish Times says so, Conor Kenny, a former Trade Unionist who lives in Massachusetts says so, and something something 4chan, and that 20-40% of Boards posters are also far-right because Peter Casey came out on top of a boards poll about the presidential election that was held in, I believe, after hours.


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    #367
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    If having an issue with a community that causes trouble everywhere they go makes you right wing, then the whole country is right wing according to Andrew's logic. Those same right wingers voted for abortion and gay marriage :pac:

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #368
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    He's saying that Peter Casey is far right because the Irish Times says so, Conor Kenny, a former Trade Unionist who lives in Massachusetts says so, and something something 4chan, and that 20-40% of Boards posters are also far-right because Peter Casey came out on top of a boards poll about the presidential election that was held in, I believe, after hours.

    He's also pointing out Casey's Presidential Election result as proof of the popularity of the Irish far-right, while pointing out Casey's General Election result as proof of the complete absence of the Irish far-right.

    For a poster who has a penchant for demanding written proof of every claim, it is surprising he doesn't hold himself to the same standard.


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    #369
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,075 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Indeed, lots of right wing posters here work really hard to deny the existence of the far right.

    What was Baudelaire's maxim that “the devil’s best trick is to persuade you that he does not exist.”

    So when someone says they are not far-right, thats actually a lie because thats a far-right tactic to deny their own existence?

    jesus christ cop yourself on - it literally is like McCarthyism seeing communists everywhere. "Far-right" exist primarily in your head.


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    #370
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,116 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    RandRuns wrote: »
    I posted what you said.

    Now, again, can you explain why you simultaneously claim two completely contradictory positions in relation to the strength of the far right in Ireland, or were you just spoofing yet again?

    You posted what I said, then you went onto "my reading" and "what you appear to be saying".

    Forget about your reading and forget about what I appear to be saying.

    Look at what I actually said.


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    #371
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    You posted what I said, then you went onto "my reading" and "what you appear to be saying".

    Forget about your reading and forget about what I appear to be saying.

    Look at what I actually said.

    And again.

    I posted what you said. Unless you are posting in some kind of secret code, we can only interpret your words as they are writtten.

    Now, can you provide some proof of your position that the far right in Ireland is both non-existent, and also hugely powerful?


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    #372
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,116 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    RandRuns wrote: »
    He's also pointing out Casey's Presidential Election result as proof of the popularity of the Irish far-right, while pointing out Casey's General Election result as proof of the complete absence of the Irish far-right.

    For a poster who has a penchant for demanding written proof of every claim, it is surprising he doesn't hold himself to the same standard.

    Try again, but this time stick to what I actually said.


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    #373
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,514 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Indeed, lots of right wing posters here work really hard to deny the existence of the far right.

    What was Baudelaire's maxim that “the devil’s best trick is to persuade you that he does not exist.”

    I would consider myself centrist, maybe centre-right, although I feel these terms are not always helpful.

    I do not deny the existence of "far-right" people.

    I note the following:
    • I consider SocDem / Labour / Greens / SF to not be far-left
    • there are 10+ far-left TDs, I think the figure is 13?
    • there are several far-left councillors (I don't know how many, I suspect at least 20+??)
    • There are zero far-right TDs
    • there are zero far-right cllrs, although I am open to correction here

    Therefore, it is clear that the far-left is a stronger force in Ireland.


    Yes, there are a ragbag of groups that I do not follow and have no interest in: National Party / others (I don't even know the names for sure). These seem to be small groups, and have no electoral support.


    It is clear that the far-left have huge access to the media, and are represented on many shows.


    Ireland has moved left.

    In my opinion, we need a strong centre-right party, and that should be FG.


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    #374
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Lets have a look at Console? No not the gaming (I must admit that I have an xbox bias)

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/give-me-a-crash-course-in-charities-controversy-1.2715293

    Now how much of that money ended up with the end user?

    Dont take my word for it lets hear from the OECD : https://www.oecd.org/tax/exchange-of-tax-information/42232037.pdf Page 4 of 65 for those interested

    "The abuse of charities occurs when the sanctioned government status of a charitable organization is
    abused either by the charitable organization, by taxpayers and donors, or third parties, such as fraudsters
    who pose as charitable organizations or tax return preparers who falsify tax returns to defraud the
    government. The abuse has serious and increasing risks to governments and the wider community"


    "18. Ireland has for many years operated a Tax Exemption Scheme for Charities and has also implemented
    a tax relief scheme for donations to charities. A charitable trust must be for the relief of poverty, the
    advancement of religion, the advancement of education or other purposes beneficial to the community. The
    tax code provides exemption for charities from Income Tax, Corporation Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Deposit
    Interest Retention Tax, Capital Acquisition Tax, Stamp Duty and Dividend Withholding Tax. Tax relief
    applies to donations which are €250 or greater in one year, are in the form of money or shares, or a
    combination of money and shares, are not repayable, do not confer a benefit on the donor or any person
    connected with the donor, and are not conditional on, or associated with, any arrangement involving the
    acquisition of property by the charity or approved body."

    So give €250 to some scheme and evade a sugar load of tax on corporate profits. Seems reasonable. I am setting up a charity for the religious conservation of education of snails in my back garden...... watch the money rolling in. If only Thomas Shelby could see this!!!

    Peter McVerry is another one. Gets around €18m from the govt, their wage bill is about €25m. So ALL of the govt grant plus the first 6/7m donated goes nowhere near the homeless.


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    #375
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Try again, but this time stick to what I actually said.

    Your posts speak for themselves.


    Please provide sources for your position that the far right is both non-existent and simultaneously hugely powerful, or else withdraw those claims and admit you were lying.


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    #376
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,116 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    RandRuns wrote: »
    And again.

    I posted what you said. Unless you are posting in some kind of secret code, we can only interpret your words as they are writtten.

    Now, can you provide some proof of your position that the far right in Ireland is both non-existent, and also hugely powerful?

    You don't need to interpret my words. In fact, you're not interpreting my words. You are twisting my words and calling on me to justify your twists. I'm not going to play your game.


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    #377
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    When you're fumbling to explain how everyone else is wrong except you, it's a good time to step back and rethink for a minute. I'm not dragging this thread about NGOs any further off topic.

    Further to this comment, I had a look at the comments under the Journal opinion piece, and I'm far from the only one who believes the idea that Peter Casey is not far right. Here's the first one, upvoted 941 times.
    Silencing working class voters on the left? Deluded. The Irish media will give anyone who promotes centre-left or far-left ideas a platform. Claire Byrne live gave Margaret Cash a seat on a panel in spite of 37 previous convictions.

    If you want to stop the rise of the far-right then stop calling anyone who’s slightly right wing on policies of immigration, taxation etc, far right. But the left fear this more than anything, because they know how effective their use of words like ‘racist, xenophobe, fascist, nazi’ are in shutting down discussion and signaling to others not to listen or agree with the person speaking or they’ll be labeled as one of these pejorative s also.


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    #378
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    You don't need to interpret my words. In fact, you're not interpreting my words. You are twisting my words and calling on me to justify your twists. I'm not going to play your game.

    So you admit that the far right (or any political position for that matter) cannot be simultaneously non-existent and hugely powerful?


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    #379
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,116 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    RandRuns wrote: »
    Your posts speak for themselves.


    Please provide sources for your position that the far right is both non-existent and simultaneously hugely powerful, or else withdraw those claims and admit you were lying.

    Please provide your source for where I claimed the far right is hugely powerful, or else withdraw that claim and admit you were lying.


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    #380
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,116 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Further to this comment, I had a look at the comments under the Journal opinion piece, and I'm far from the only one who believes the idea that Peter Casey is far right. Here's the first one, upvoted 941 times.

    Strangely enough, I fully agree with you here.


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    #381
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Please provide your source for where I claimed the far right is hugely powerful, or else withdraw that claim and admit you were lying.

    I already posted your claim, as well you know.

    Now please back up your claim or withdraw it. You have dragged this thread all over the place, at least give some backup for it.


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    #382
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,116 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Peter McVerry is another one. Gets around €18m from the govt, their wage bill is about €25m. So ALL of the govt grant plus the first 6/7m donated goes nowhere near the homeless.

    You do know what their paid staff do?


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    #383
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Oh right, so we can't touch the business subsidies. How about the €17 million subsidy for mistreating animals in the greyhound industry? Or the subsidies to mistreat horses in the racing sector - could either of these provide the funding you need to improve the health services?

    Or is there something special about overseas aid?

    Greyhounds: The gross wage bill attributed to employment in the greyhound industry is estimated at €126.5 million. PAYE/PRSI paid per annum is estimated at €12.7 million. Net incomes generated in the industry estimated at €113.8 million. Based on a conservative income multiplier effect of 0.5, this would result in a total economic impact to the economy of €171 million per annum in terms of additional spending

    Horse Racing: Off-course expenditure by racegoers is
    estimated to contribute €145m to government coffers. The Breeding industry generates gross expenditure of €583m, primarily from bloodstock sales and stallion nomination fees, with economic input of €489m after internal flows are removed.


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    #384
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,116 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    RandRuns wrote: »
    I already posted your claim, as well you know.

    Now please back up your claim or withdraw it. You have dragged this thread all over the place, at least give some backup for it.

    Please provide your source for where I claimed the far right is hugely powerful, or else withdraw that claim and admit you were lying.


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    #385
    Tokyo
    Registered Users Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    That's true enough, which makes it all the more strange that 20%—40% of boards posters seem to take far right positions.

    Mod: @AndrewJRenko - feel free to provide a source for that claim.

    Also, I'm reading through a page of bickering from you and people engaging with you. Any further continuation of this from either side will result in a threadban.


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    #386
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Please provide your source for where I claimed the far right is hugely powerful, or else withdraw that claim and admit you were lying.

    Not a very original tactic - accuse the poster asking you to back up your outlandish claims of the very thing you are guilty of.

    Please provide proof for your contradictory claims, or withdraw them, and stop trying to drag the thread off topic in order to get others banned.



    Edit: Posted before I saw the mod post above, glad to see that poster called out at last.


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    #387
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Geuze wrote: »
    I would consider myself centrist, maybe centre-right, although I feel these terms are not always helpful.

    I do not deny the existence of "far-right" people.

    I note the following:
    • I consider SocDem / Labour / Greens / SF to not be far-left
    • there are 10+ far-left TDs, I think the figure is 13?
    • there are several far-left councillors (I don't know how many, I suspect at least 20+??
    • There are zero far-right TDs
    • there are zero far-right cllrs, although I am open to correction here

    Therefore, it is clear that the far-left is a stronger force in Ireland.


    Yes, there are a ragbag of groups that I do not follow and have no interest in: National Party / others (I don't even know the names for sure). These seem to be small groups, and have no electoral support.


    It is clear that the far-left have huge access to the media, and are represented on many shows.


    Ireland has moved left.

    In my opinion, we need a strong centre-right party, and that should be FG.

    The National Party are horrible and the worst manifestation of the right possible. They are like a walking stereotype.

    The Irish Freedom Party are much more reasonable and I'd have respect for them.

    Pity the only right wing party you are aware of is the utter worst of the lot.


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    #388
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,116 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Greyhounds: The gross wage bill attributed to employment in the greyhound industry is estimated at €126.5 million. PAYE/PRSI paid per annum is estimated at €12.7 million. Net incomes generated in the industry estimated at €113.8 million. Based on a conservative income multiplier effect of 0.5, this would result in a total economic impact to the economy of €171 million per annum in terms of additional spending

    Horse Racing: Off-course expenditure by racegoers is
    estimated to contribute €145m to government coffers. The Breeding industry generates gross expenditure of €583m, primarily from bloodstock sales and stallion nomination fees, with economic input of €489m after internal flows are removed.

    Sounds like they are good strong businesses that will have no problems standing on their own feet. That's a great argument for removing the subsidies.


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    #389
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    The Diary wrote: »
    What do you gain from this obsession with the far-right?

    How does it make your life better?

    A fisherman in a sea devoid of fish.


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    #390
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Sounds like they are good strong businesses that will have no problems standing on their own feet. That's a great argument for removing the subsidies.

    Why mess with something thats not broken?? We give HRI and GRI x amount and in return we receive many multiples of that in tax returns. Seems like an excellent ROI.

    What we should be doing is removing aid from India (if they can afford a space programme they can afford to feed and educate their citizens), and any other country that has the money for a large army, navy, air force etc. Id they can afford them, they can afford to feed and educate their citizens. Sending €868m of the taxpayers money abroad every year is lunacy.


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    #391
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Anyone who doesn't want to pay for third world welfare tourists is apparently far right.

    Now who wants to be labeled that lads- so say nothing, your income taxes will have to rise, you won't get the pension til later, hospital waiting lists will grow etc etc but we'll get lectured by ngo's, rte etc about how racist we are in return.
    Seems a reasonable enough trade off!


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